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Old 01-19-2014, 12:00 PM   #31
Jed1
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Originally Posted by wecnews View Post
can you tell i only have internet?

all i do is read and surf the net
If you only have internet with Comcast then you will be able to only receive the Broadcast Basic channels. They have placed a trap on your drop to filter out any other channels. If the channels you receive are mapped to their virtual channel numbers then the CableCard is working properly.
You can check this in the diagnostics menu which is located in the settings menu in TiVo Central.

You will have to subscribe to a higher channel package if this is the case.
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Old 01-19-2014, 12:31 PM   #32
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Did you only have internet before? Are you sure there is not a trap on your line? That could also explain the problems. They would need to come out and remove it.
I second this theory.
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Old 01-19-2014, 03:00 PM   #33
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Easiest solution would be to get a cable box from Comcast for a day or two, and see if IT works. That will rule out the cable, trap, bad line, etc.
FWIW, I had a similar issue on my second Tivo cablecard. Turned out it was paired correctly, the signal was good, but apparently billing assigns your package info to each individual card after the fact. That cablecard showed I was only subscribing to limited basic, even though the other two cablecards in other rooms were assigned my correct package. You might verify with billing what programming package they have assigned to that cablecard giving you issues. Its a totally different department than the pairing/activation group.
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Old 01-19-2014, 03:04 PM   #34
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Easiest solution would be to get a cable box from Comcast for a day or two, and see if IT works. That will rule out the cable, trap, bad line, etc.
Good idea. I second this.
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Old 01-19-2014, 03:39 PM   #35
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You might try reaching out to @comcastcares on twitter.
Or look at your cable bill for the phone number of your local "franchise authority" and call them to report your complaint. In theory, they should carry some weight with Comcast.
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Old 01-19-2014, 04:02 PM   #36
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Pairing only affects copy protected channels. Comcast only copy protects premium channels (Encore, HBO, Showtime ect.).
This is not right. Pairing effects all encrypted channels. Encryption and copy protection are two different things. If the CableCARD is not paired then you will not be able to tune any encrypted channels regardless of their copy protection status. Copy protection is used on the premium channels to prevent copying of the shows after they are recorded. This is what blocks TiVoToGo, out of home streaming and transferring a show between TiVos.
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Old 01-19-2014, 04:08 PM   #37
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I'm trying the comcast cares/executive customer relations today.

I don't know what else to do.

To answer some of your questions….

When I said "Can you tell I only have internet?" I meant right now because of my broken cable.

I subscribe to a full array of channels, and got them all for 2 years with no issues pre-roamio. I'm just not getting them now.

So no there's no trap.

Also, the cable card that is in my roamio came out of a Tivo HD which worked fine. Other tivo hd's in my house work fine.

problem lies with the roamio.

Tivo says I need the attenuator and the right firmware before they send a replacement.

Comcast won't do either.
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Old 01-19-2014, 04:09 PM   #38
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one more…

since you guys think the firmware isn't the issue what about this attenuator business.

tivo said a need a 6db attenuator.

comcast tech said he didn't know what that was…..
Throw a 4 way splitter on the line before it goes into your TiVo. That will act as a 7db attenuator.

However the pairing signal is sent using an OOB signal. If you look at the DVR diagnostics screen in account &system information screen you'll be able to see if the TiVo has an OOB lock. If it doesn't then that would explain why the card isn't pairing and points to a problem with the line coming into your house.
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Old 01-19-2014, 04:10 PM   #39
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This is not right. Pairing effects all encrypted channels. Encryption and copy protection are two different things. If the CableCARD is not paired then you will not be able to tune any encrypted channels regardless of their copy protection status. Copy protection is used on the premium channels to prevent copying of the shows after they are recorded. This is what blocks TiVoToGo, out of home streaming and transferring a show between TiVos.
You're wrong. I'm running my Roamio right now with an un-paired CableCARD. I do not subscribe to any premiums and have no problems. This is on Comcast and they are encrypting all of the channels, even the locals.
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Old 01-19-2014, 04:15 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by wecnews View Post
Tivo says I need the attenuator and the right firmware before they send a replacement.

Comcast won't do either.
The firmware will only effect your Roamio's ability to use all 6 tuners. It will not prevent basic pairing. It's BS that they say you "need" the firmware to prove that it's bad TiVo.

If they wont fix it then tell them you want to return it under the 30 day guarantee and then just buy one from Amazon instead.

I personally don't think the TiVo is the issue, but the only way to rule it out completely is to exchange.

One thing to consider.... The firmware on your card could cause a problem with you using all 6 tuners on the Roamio even if you get past the pairing issue. If Comcast refuses to upgrade it then you may be stuck using your 6 tuner Roamio as a 4 tuner box. Is upgrading from a 4 tuner Premiere to a 4 tuner Roamio really worth it?
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Old 01-19-2014, 04:17 PM   #41
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You're wrong. I'm running my Roamio right now with an un-paired CableCARD. I do not subscribe to any premiums and have no problems. This is on Comcast and they are encrypting all of the channels, even the locals.
That's not possible. The card can not decrypt the channels unless it's paired. That's how the CableCARD spec works. So either your card is paired or the channels aren't encrypted.
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Old 01-19-2014, 04:20 PM   #42
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That's not possible. The card can not decrypt the channels unless it's paired. That's how the CableCARD spec works. So either your card is paired or the channels aren't encrypted.
You're wrong.
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Old 01-19-2014, 04:27 PM   #43
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Also, the cable card that is in my roamio came out of a Tivo HD which worked fine. Other tivo hd's in my house work fine.
Save yourself the trouble and just get a replacement cablecard. Most likely they just haven't removed the old pairing. Comcast provides cablecards as self-install kits. If your local Comcast won't, you may have to contact corporate to get the ball rolling.
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Old 01-19-2014, 04:50 PM   #44
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You're wrong.
OK I researched this a bit and we're both wrong. There are two levels of "encryption" when it comes to CableCARDs. The first is conditional access, where the card simply needs to be linked to your account to authorize you to access the channels you subscribe to. The second is actual encryption and requires the card to be paired to a device to decrypt the channel. However neither one has anything to do with "copy protection". Copy protection is handled by the CCI byte and can be set regardless of the "encryption" level used.

So apparently in your specific area they use conditional access, but only use the higher level of encryption for premium channels. In my area they use the higher level encryption for everything except locals and a few basic cable channels. So if the card is not paired you can only access like a dozen channels. However they only copy protect premiums because all other channels can still be transferred between TiVos and to a PC using TiVoToGo.
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Old 01-19-2014, 05:04 PM   #45
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That's not possible. The card can not decrypt the channels unless it's paired. That's how the CableCARD spec works. So either your card is paired or the channels aren't encrypted.
I can used and sometimes do use a non paired Comcast Moto card in a TiVo and get all stations except the HBO type stations. Comcast encrypts ALL stations now in my area, my new HDTV can't now tune any cable station with the built in tuner, I assume OTA would work.
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Old 01-19-2014, 05:18 PM   #46
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Read my post above. There are two ways to setup encryption. One requires pairing to a device, one just requires the card to be registered with the account. However neither is explicitly linked to copy protection, which was the point of my original post. Copy protection is something completely different. You can require pairing, as they do in my area, without protecting every channel.
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Old 01-19-2014, 05:42 PM   #47
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OK I researched this a bit and we're both wrong. There are two levels of "encryption" when it comes to CableCARDs. The first is conditional access, where the card simply needs to be linked to your account to authorize you to access the channels you subscribe to. The second is actual encryption and requires the card to be paired to a device to decrypt the channel. However neither one has anything to do with "copy protection". Copy protection is handled by the CCI byte and can be set regardless of the "encryption" level used.
How am I wrong? It was your claim that you cannot decrypt anything unless the CableCARD is is paired to which I objected. I never even mentioned "copy protection". I am quite well aware that copy protection is controlled by the value of the CCI byte and has nothing to do with encryption.
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Old 01-19-2014, 05:55 PM   #48
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I thought you were the same guy I replied to initially who claimed that only "copy protected" channels require pairing. Although you were quoting my reply to him in your original rebuttal.

In any case my original post about pairing having no relation to "copy protection" is still true.
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Old 01-19-2014, 07:22 PM   #49
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Just got this email from Comcast which sort of applies to some of the discussion here:
Important Service Message:

***Deleted*** see repaginated post below this one. Much easier to read. Thanks SullyND

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Old 01-19-2014, 07:30 PM   #50
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Is Comcast Haiku?

Repaginated so that it is legible.

Spoiler:
Important Service Message:
On March 6, 2014, Comcast will start encrypting Limited Basic service on your cable system.

If you have a set-top box, digital transport adapter (DTA), or a retail CableCARD TM device connected to each of your TVs, you will be unaffected by this change. However, if you are currently receiving Comcast's Limited Basic service on any TV without equipment supplied by Comcast, you will lose the ability to view any channels on that TV.

If you are affected, you should contact Comcast at 855-860-8989 to arrange for the equipment you need to continue receiving your services. In such case, you are entitled to receive equipment at no additional charge or service fee for a limited period of time. The number and type of devices you are entitled to receive, and for how long, will vary depending on your situation:

- If you are a Limited Basic customer and receive the service on your TV without Comcast supplied equipment, you are entitled to up to two devices for two years (five years if you also receive Medicaid).

- If you subscribe to a higher level of service and receive Limited Basic service on a secondary TV without Comcast-supplied equipment, you are entitled to one device for one year. You can learn more about this equipment offer and eligibility at comcast.com/digitaladapterinfo or by calling 855-860-8989.
To qualify for any equipment at no additional charge or service fee, you must request your equipment between now and July 4, 2014 and satisfy all other eligibility requirements.

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Old 01-19-2014, 08:08 PM   #51
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Is Comcast Haiku?

Repaginated so that it is legible.


They did this in Minneapolis/St. Paul (well, at least my suburb with a Motorola head-end) last year. The local cable authority got a lot of negative feedback, which they funneled to Comcast.
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Old 01-19-2014, 08:24 PM   #52
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I thought you were the same guy I replied to initially who claimed that only "copy protected" channels require pairing. Although you were quoting my reply to him in your original rebuttal.

In any case my original post about pairing having no relation to "copy protection" is still true.
I may have confused things by using the wrong terminology. Sorry for that. My point was that on my cable system (Comcast/Motorola) I can receive all channels except the premium channels with an activated but unpaired CableCard. I think this is the same for Comcast/Cisco cable systems. Since the OP was only recieving a few broadcast channels, I figured his problem wasn't CableCard pairing.
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Old 01-19-2014, 08:28 PM   #53
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Can the OP please state what part of the country you are in so that we can possibly see if any other Comcast customers from that region can chip into this dialog with their own experiences?

Based on all the limited info presented thus far, I'm beginning to lean to the possibility of a bad box as opposed to a bad CC, given that the OP claims to have used more than one CC in his Roamio thus far (I think that's the case, although the story is beginning to get a bit garbled)...
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Old 01-19-2014, 09:17 PM   #54
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So is Comcast going to start encrypting the locals around the entire country? I wonder when the other major cable providers will start doing this?
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Old 01-19-2014, 09:21 PM   #55
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So is Comcast going to start encrypting the locals around the entire country? I wonder when the other major cable providers will start doing this?
Yes, and when they realize they can make people have to pay for extra outlets they are getting free now...after the legally mandated "free period".
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Old 01-19-2014, 09:25 PM   #56
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Can the OP please state what part of the country you are in so that we can possibly see if any other Comcast customers from that region can chip into this dialog with their own experiences?

Based on all the limited info presented thus far, I'm beginning to lean to the possibility of a bad box as opposed to a bad CC, given that the OP claims to have used more than one CC in his Roamio thus far (I think that's the case, although the story is beginning to get a bit garbled)...

I'm in Memphis, TN.

I agree if you guys are correct about this firmware not being the issue, then I think I may have a bad box too.

I have used several different cable cards in this box with the same result.
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Old 01-19-2014, 10:11 PM   #57
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Have you checked your Tivo cablecard status screen against the correct readouts: http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2571

If you post what is different about your readings vs what they are supposed to be, we might be able to figure out what the problem is.
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Old 01-19-2014, 10:48 PM   #58
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Is upgrading from a 4 tuner Premiere to a 4 tuner Roamio really worth it?
OMG yes.
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Old 01-20-2014, 12:56 AM   #59
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Also, the cable card that is in my roamio came out of a Tivo HD which worked fine. Other tivo hd's in my house work fine.

Quote:
Tivo says I need the attenuator and the right firmware before they send a replacement.
I had a similar situation!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203 View Post
Throw a 4 way splitter on the line before it goes into your TiVo. That will act as a 7db attenuator.
... And this solved it for me.

Over the last few years, my living room TiVo has gone from a Premiere to a Premiere XL4, a Roamio Pro that died after 3 days, and then the current Roamio Pro.

Each time I changed TiVos, I only changed the TiVo. The cable card and the wiring (hdmi, power, USB tuning adapter) stayed the same.

Couldn't get the first Roamio to work with the cable card. Cox said it showed paired on their end, but I couldn't get any encrypted channels (which seem to only be HBO, etc in this market). The TiVo died before this was solved, so I was hopeful the replacement TiVo wouldn't have this issue.

No luck. Roamio #2 acted the same. Cox showed paired on their end, but I got no encrypted channels on my end.

Talking with TiVo, they noticed the SNR was super high. They suggested an attenuator. I had a 4-way splitter, so I used that instead. That dropped the SNR level. I called Cox. They unpaired/repaired the cable, and everything has been fine since then.

Weird that the Roamio choked on the same cable card/wiring/signal that two models of Premieres had no problems with!
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Old 01-20-2014, 03:45 AM   #60
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Weird that the Roamio choked on the same cable card/wiring/signal that two models of Premieres had no problems with!
I have seen reports here, but haven't seen them substantiated by looking at the hardware, that the Roamio has an extra internal amplifier because of the 6-way split. This seems consistent with various reports like this one and other reports that there are occasionally more problems when multiple tuners are on the same channel (eg after reboot). Has someone verify this on the hardware?
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