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Old 12-17-2013, 10:28 AM   #1
jgametest
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Arrow Plex HTML5 App WorldWide Request

I have reached out to the Plex team to see about them helping us and all to work on a HTML5 client. If anyone can pull this off it's them.. So many variations of that product are in use for multiplatform. Just note it's going to take time.

https://forums.plexapp.com/index.php...dwide-request/
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Old 12-17-2013, 01:08 PM   #2
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I know a version was being developed for Boxee before it was purchased by Samsung and shelved...

fyi - Boxee was using the Opera SDK, according to this article.

The source code is still available.

And it looks pretty good:


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File Type: jpg plexee-01.jpg (56.3 KB, 268 views)
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Old 12-18-2013, 10:47 AM   #3
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Smile Or just give us Browser functions

http://www.operasoftware.com/products/tv-browser

It would seem so much easier to just give in and grant us the browser functions we so desire. It would resolve much need for APPS vs. direct.

Will monitor this closely on the web for background noise.

There is no doubt in my mind with the latest updates this will generate curiosity back to the boxes to push the limits further once again.

http://d2jc9zwbrclgz3.cloudfront.net...tv_browser.jpg
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Old 12-18-2013, 06:29 PM   #4
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FYI, the Opera TV Store only supports H.264 video and MPEG1/MPEG2/AAC audio inside MP4 containers. It DOES support HLS though, so Plex would work somewhat reliably if you use their transcoding server.

If you were hoping for more native codec support (Like XBMC), it's not going to happen.
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Old 12-20-2013, 03:25 AM   #5
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You can remotely pass your Plex Media Server URL to the Tivo Opera browser via kmttg, but as you guys have mentioned there are no browser controls.

Just seeing the Plex web interface displayed by the Tivo gives me possibly unfounded hope.

Like everyone else, still looking for that one box that does it all.

With a little more open browser on the Tivo, I think it would win hands down.
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Old 12-20-2013, 06:20 AM   #6
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Lightbulb Kylo Web Browser

This team decided to providing the sourcecode to the general public. Will it be enough Or is the current product to reliant on a pc.

With a modified code could it possible to put on a public/private server to emulate a pc/mac model?


First Look: Kylo Browser for TV
You need to upgrade your Flash Player

http://kylo.tv/ - Product
http://code.kylo.tv/ - Sourcecode

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Old 01-14-2014, 09:54 PM   #7
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So I spent a bit of time looking into this, but I could not get very far.

First, I started with this: (forum won't let me post links-but search for "plex.h3consulting" on google)

It is a javacript based plex frontend for LG TVs. I got it to work, and navigation works pretty well but video will not play.

LG TVs use a custom video object, so I modified it to use an HTML5 video tag. I got it full working in Safari (which means HTML5 HLS video is working), but it will not work on the Tivo.

As best as I can tell, Tivo does NOT support HLS. I am not familar enough with Plex's transcoder to go much further, but I did try to use the "generic" (as opposed to the universal) transcoder to produce an MP4 file. For example, as in this thread (search for "transcoder help" in plex devel forum) But, everytime I executed the command, it locked up the transcoder (windows) or killed plex process (OS X). The logs weren't any help either.

Last edited by ntlord : 01-14-2014 at 10:22 PM.
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Old 01-14-2014, 10:26 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ntlord View Post
So I spent a bit of time looking into this, but I could not get very far.

First, I started with this: (forum won't let me post links-but search for "plex.h3consulting" on google)

It is a javacript based plex frontend for LG TVs. I got it to work, and navigation works pretty well but video will not play.

LG TVs use a custom video object, so I modified it to use an HTML5 video tag. I got it full working in Safari (which means HTML5 HLS video is working), but it will not work on the Tivo.

As best as I can tell, Tivo does NOT support HLS. I am not familar enough with Plex's transcoder to go much further, but I did try to use the "generic" (as opposed to the universal) transcoder to produce an MP4 file. For example, as in this thread (search for "transcoder help" in plex devel forum) But, everytime I executed the command, it locked up the transcoder (windows) or killed plex process (OS X). The logs weren't any help either.
It looks like Opera has confirmed no HLS support on TiVo (which is a bummer for transcoding purposes):
http://my.opera.com/community/forums...dml?id=1811322

I've been toying around with the Opera html5 support on TiVo though, and there are still some interesting apps that could be created for TiVo.
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Old 01-14-2014, 11:02 PM   #9
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That is too bad. The documentation on the Opera SDK is seriously lacking. There also does not seem to be much of a developer community (i.e. you question went unanswered for days).

My hope is that if I can get Plex's transcoder to pop out an mp4 then this would still have a chance at working. But as of right now, when I try that Plex crashes.
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Old 01-15-2014, 08:04 AM   #10
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My hope is that if I can get Plex's transcoder to pop out an mp4 then this would still have a chance at working. But as of right now, when I try that Plex crashes.
I don't see how that's possible. mp4 container requires MOOV atom among others that can only be generated once the encoding is complete, so on the fly transcoding to mp4 I don't think is possible...
IMO, mp4 container is lousy and I wish at least mpeg2 transport container would work since it's much more flexible.
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Old 01-15-2014, 09:35 AM   #11
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I thought so too. But if you search for "transcoder help" (again sorry can't post links yet) on the Plex dev forums, somebody seems to indicate they got it to work with a Vizio tv and a .mp4 container that was transcoded on-the-fly.

I will try a couple of basic tests later on tonight, just to verify the only container the Tivo can support is .mp4. But, I'm not hopeful.
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Old 01-15-2014, 10:11 AM   #12
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FWIW, here's the post (I think)https://forums.plex.tv/index.php/top...p/#entry553787. I agree it doesn't look hopeful, but don't let me stop you from trying! I'd really like to see any kind of live streaming/live transcoding working.
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Old 01-15-2014, 01:00 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ntlord View Post
I will try a couple of basic tests later on tonight, just to verify the only container the Tivo can support is .mp4. But, I'm not hopeful.
It's good to have independent confirmation, but from my tests not too long ago the only thing that works inside a <video> tag for TiVo Opera browser is mp4 container with H.264 video and AAC audio. (The MOOV atom does not have to be at start of the file from what I recall).

NOTE: mp4 container with H.264 video and AC3 audio will actually play, but you don't get any sound.
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Old 01-15-2014, 07:39 PM   #14
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I tested with ogg, webm, mpegts. No dice. I also extracted the .ts files from the .m3u8 file, also no dice.

At this point, my only hope is that I get an answer on the Plex forums, and somehow that generic transcoder mp4 thing magically works.

As an aside, is the new netflix app HTML5? Is it possible we could try to intercept the traffic, and see if there are some custom objects being passed around not documented in the Opera web SDK?

Has there been any news as to when tivo is going to post the SDK info on their website? It seems to have been down for "maintenance" and awful long time.

Last edited by ntlord : 01-15-2014 at 08:53 PM.
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Old 01-16-2014, 09:48 AM   #15
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As an aside, is the new netflix app HTML5?
No. Back when "opera:history" still worked before 20.3.8 update, Dan203 was able to confirm that after launching Netflix no URL showed up in Opera browser history for his TiVo. After launching YouTube HTML version it did show up in history. Also, the URL for Netflix App launch is a special type:
Code:
x-tivo:netflix:netflix
vs the YouTube one:
Code:
x-tivo:web:https://www.youtube.com/tv
So YouTube videos are being launched using <video> tags in html5 while Netflix is doing its own custom thing. YouTube videos are mp4 container with H.264 video and AAC audio which is why that's not a problem.

It would be wonderful for us to get access to same TiVo SDK that Netflix must be using, but that's likely never going to happen...
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Old 01-16-2014, 12:53 PM   #16
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Hmm that's too bad. Although, I guess you never know, who knows what Netflix is sending back and forth? Maybe, if I have time this weekend, I'll try to set up a packet sniffer. Even if it is HTTPS it still may be possible to intercept by setting up a man-in-the-middle proxy.
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Old 01-16-2014, 04:47 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ntlord View Post
Hmm that's too bad. Although, I guess you never know, who knows what Netflix is sending back and forth? Maybe, if I have time this weekend, I'll try to set up a packet sniffer. Even if it is HTTPS it still may be possible to intercept by setting up a man-in-the-middle proxy.
^
Love to hear the results of this.

I started looking into WebRTC during my break at work today..I'm wondering if there isn't a way to implement streaming by pretending we're a webcam on the server side. If it works at all on the TiVo, there'll probably be a bunch of limiting factors like dropping frames when it can't keep up, the codecs only support low-bitrates designed for real-time video chats and such. It's relatively new, and I'm betting isn't even included in Opera's device sdk(and thus on tivo), but it was a passing thought.
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Old 01-16-2014, 11:37 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ntlord View Post
So I spent a bit of time looking into this, but I could not get very far.

First, I started with this: (forum won't let me post links-but search for "plex.h3consulting" on google)

It is a javacript based plex frontend for LG TVs. I got it to work, and navigation works pretty well but video will not play.

LG TVs use a custom video object, so I modified it to use an HTML5 video tag. I got it full working in Safari (which means HTML5 HLS video is working), but it will not work on the Tivo.

As best as I can tell, Tivo does NOT support HLS. I am not familar enough with Plex's transcoder to go much further, but I did try to use the "generic" (as opposed to the universal) transcoder to produce an MP4 file. For example, as in this thread (search for "transcoder help" in plex devel forum) But, everytime I executed the command, it locked up the transcoder (windows) or killed plex process (OS X). The logs weren't any help either.
Could you share the changes you made go get it working? Most of my media is h264/aac so I don't need transcoding support.
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Old 01-17-2014, 01:33 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by moyekj View Post
I don't see how that's possible. mp4 container requires MOOV atom among others that can only be generated once the encoding is complete, so on the fly transcoding to mp4 I don't think is possible...
IMO, mp4 container is lousy and I wish at least mpeg2 transport container would work since it's much more flexible.
You are correct. MP4 files require a MOOV atom and the MOOV atom can not be generated until the file has finished encoding, so MP4 can not be used for realtime transcoding and streaming.

HLS is really our only hope for that functionality. I wonder why it's not included in the TiVo version of Opera?
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Old 01-17-2014, 09:11 AM   #20
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This moov atom thing has me confused. I get that when you are transcoding a live stream it may not be possible to generate the moov atom. But that is not the case with Plex. Instead, with Plex, you are transcoding a fixed file. It would seem to me to be completely within the realm of possibility to generate the correct MOOV atom in that case.

There must be some third party transcoders that can do that. Has anybody looked into that? I know it somewhat defeats the purpose of using plex, but I guess for now it would work.


@sirfergy - As to sharing the code. I really just hacked something together. It was never fully functional. Just enough to get it to the point to play a video, so there really isn't much to share. But, in general all you need to do is change the LG custom object html tag to a video tag and modify the Javascript to change the "src" attribute of that tag. After that, you would need to mess a bit with the player controls to get them to work.

-Dan

Last edited by ntlord : 01-17-2014 at 09:17 AM.
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Old 01-17-2014, 10:48 AM   #21
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Arrow What about AirPlayserver?

Air PlayIt Server is created for Mac and Windows users as a way of Transcoding for live playback or to pull a copy to the app found within the AppStore or GooglePlay. There is even an option to make the server available as WEB interface within the application which then is tied to it's own Custom or default port with IP address. If the technology it uses could be broken down maybe it could be used. I did notice last time I used it the installation included FFMPEG similar to what is used with Streambaby.

Details about Airplayit

http://airplayit.com/
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Old 01-17-2014, 11:44 AM   #22
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Air PlayIt Server is created for Mac and Windows users as a way of Transcoding for live playback or to pull a copy to the app found within the AppStore or GooglePlay. There is even an option to make the server available as WEB interface within the application which then is tied to it's own Custom or default port with IP address. If the technology it uses could be broken down maybe it could be used. I did notice last time I used it the installation included FFMPEG similar to what is used with Streambaby.

Details about Airplayit

http://airplayit.com/
Transcoding is to M3U8/M3U (i.e. HLS) format which is not (currently) supported by TiVo Opera browser.
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Old 01-17-2014, 04:34 PM   #23
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This seems promising:

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1...n-flash-player

If this works, it may be possible to emulate using Plex DLNA transcoder profiles.
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Old 01-17-2014, 06:33 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by ntlord View Post
This moov atom thing has me confused. I get that when you are transcoding a live stream it may not be possible to generate the moov atom. But that is not the case with Plex. Instead, with Plex, you are transcoding a fixed file. It would seem to me to be completely within the realm of possibility to generate the correct MOOV atom in that case.

There must be some third party transcoders that can do that. Has anybody looked into that? I know it somewhat defeats the purpose of using plex, but I guess for now it would work.
The problem is that the MOOV atom contains byte offsets to individual chunks of data in the file. There is no way to know the exact position of these chunks ahead of time because you have no way of knowing how big each individual frame will be. Even if you used a CBR encoding method the size of each individual frame would still vary making it impossible to guess.
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Old 01-17-2014, 06:37 PM   #25
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This seems promising:

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1...n-flash-player

If this works, it may be possible to emulate using Plex DLNA transcoder profiles.
Hmmm... I forgot about fragmented MP4 files. They're only supported by some players though. Although it's easy to created a fragmented MP4 in ffmpeg, so it should be easy enough to test if they work in the TiVo browser. Just add...
Code:
-movflags frag_keyframe
to the ffmpeg commandline when outputting the MP4 file.

Edit: You might also need to set the H.264 encoder options to output IDR frames at specific intervals for that to work properly. (I'd recommend every 2 seconds)


Edit: This page has a more robust explanation about how to create a fragmented MP4 file in FFmpeg...

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8...p4-with-ffmpeg
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Old 01-17-2014, 09:17 PM   #26
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Hmmm... I forgot about fragmented MP4 files. They're only supported by some players though. Although it's easy to created a fragmented MP4 in ffmpeg, so it should be easy enough to test if they work in the TiVo browser. Just add...
Code:
-movflags frag_keyframe
to the ffmpeg commandline when outputting the MP4 file.

Edit: You might also need to set the H.264 encoder options to output IDR frames at specific intervals for that to work properly. (I'd recommend every 2 seconds)


Edit: This page has a more robust explanation about how to create a fragmented MP4 file in FFmpeg...

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8...p4-with-ffmpeg
Tried a sample ffmpeg encode with:
-movflags frag_keyframe

Both VLC and TiVo Opera browser only play the 1st fragment (I used -g 52 for keyframe). mediainfo sees total length of video as 1st fragment only.

Next tried the following:
-movflags frag_keyframe+empty_moov

Neither VLC or TiVo Opera browser could play it at all.
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Old 01-17-2014, 10:32 PM   #27
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Try the ismv format instead. It's basically a fragmented MP4 but with an extra index file, kind of like HLS.

This is apparently what Microsoft Smooth Streaming is, and that's listed as supported in Opera Media Streaming docs.
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Old 01-17-2014, 10:53 PM   #28
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Tried with the following:
-movflags frag_keyframe -f ismv

VLC can play it, TiVo Opera errors out as unsupported.
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Old 01-17-2014, 10:58 PM   #29
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Did you try...

frag_keyframe+empty_moov

?
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Old 01-17-2014, 11:10 PM   #30
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-movflags frag_keyframe+empty_moov -f ismv

VLC plays, TiVo Opera unsupported.
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