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Old 01-13-2014, 05:20 PM   #1
crxssi
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Android and video streaming

I am getting increasingly impatient, frustrated, and annoyed that I cannot stream video from the Roamio (which also means the TiVo Stream) to Android devices, such as my Nexus 10. (I looked for a thread specifically about this and didn't find one) I don't care about OOH (Out Of Home) streaming (at least not yet) but just the ability to watch on my tablet from various places around the house.

It has been something like 1.25 YEARS now, since the Stream was released. Does anyone have any new news about Android support? Was this supposed to be coming in the next update?
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Old 01-13-2014, 05:21 PM   #2
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(I looked for a thread specifically about this and didn't find one)
Oops, I did another search across other forums (some I didn't know about) and found there is a Stream forum and this thread specifically: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=501364 Sorry about that.

Synopsis- nothing shown at CES. Nothing announced yet. Nobody knows.
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Old 01-13-2014, 05:24 PM   #3
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Yes, there's a whole Stream sub-forum which covers this topic ad nauseum, but unfortunately many threads are filled with iOS vs Android rants which get tiresome in a hurry. I actually ended up getting an iPad Air mostly for OOH streaming capability only to find I rarely use OOH streaming or the iPad. A general browser-based client I would find far more useful than either iOS or Android.
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Old 01-13-2014, 05:27 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by moyekj View Post
Yes, there's a whole Stream sub-forum which covers this topic ad nauseum,
Yeah, that was "my bad".

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but unfortunately many threads are filled with iOS vs Android rants which get tiresome in a hurry.
Yes, that would get extremely tiresome... like after the very first post.
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Old 01-13-2014, 06:53 PM   #5
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I am getting increasingly impatient, frustrated, and annoyed that I cannot stream video from the Roamio (which also means the TiVo Stream) to Android devices<snip>
Call me your +1. I think we've been more than patient. It's not like this is an obscure product, it's ANDROID.

I can only guess, since TiVo missed CES, that they have significant problems. And can't imagine what they could be.
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Old 01-13-2014, 09:59 PM   #6
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One of these days; I'm hoping to stream on my androids. Frustrating as it is with my girlfriend being able to do this on her iPad while I can't, I still love my Roamio Plus vs my former cable dvr.

As much as I'd like to stream to my Android tablet, I'm so much happier that I've come back to Tivo from cable dvr garbage. Maybe someday Android will get streaming, but until then, I will enjoy what I've got.

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Old 01-14-2014, 07:10 AM   #7
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Slingbox for streaming, kmttg for copying to android device.

With those, there really is no need for the dysfunctional stream. Perhaps someday Tivo will complete that 1/2 baked product. Likely soon after they finish the HD menus on the Premiere.....
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Old 01-14-2014, 09:26 AM   #8
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I'm not sure why people keep offering Slingbox as a substitute for OOH streaming. If you live by yourself, sure-- no difference. But it renders the TiVo unusable for anyone else in the family while somebody is using it for Slingbox.
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Old 01-14-2014, 09:46 AM   #9
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Ya TiVo has pretty much burned this bridge with me. I would have purchased a steam just to see how it worked if they had gotten it to work with Android pretty much anytime last year. But at this point I likely will never bother buying one, out of the home streaming will never be an option for me (have DSL with only 0.36Mbps upload speeds) anyway and I can live with watching TV on my TV.
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Old 01-14-2014, 10:21 AM   #10
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I'm not sure why people keep offering Slingbox as a substitute for OOH streaming. If you live by yourself, sure-- no difference. But it renders the TiVo unusable for anyone else in the family while somebody is using it for Slingbox.
You use it on a TiVo Mini or at a location that is not used much. My Slingbox 350 is connected to one of my TiVo Minis. Of course I would prefer to use the built in stream capabilities of my Roamio Pro, but since I have no plans to ever own an Apple tablet, I'll have to continue to wait until I can use my Android tablets. And continue using my Slingbox 350.
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Old 01-14-2014, 11:02 AM   #11
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Slingbox for streaming, kmttg for copying to android device.

With those, there really is no need for the dysfunctional stream. Perhaps someday Tivo will complete that 1/2 baked product. Likely soon after they finish the HD menus on the Premiere.....
While kmttg works just fine for downloading and copying, using the Tivo app is definitely much better the full kmttg process, though kmttg is a great program. For one, I can download a show to my ipad when I'm not at home and most importantly the controls on the tivo app are far better than what's available on the stock Apple videos app. Skipping commercials is just like on the TV through the app as you just swipe to 30 second skip and swipe back to 8 second rewind. With the videos app I had to use that terrible slider and attempt to get past the commercials. Really bad way to do that and almost impossible when you're standing on the bus on your commute home.

Hopefully they'll get the streaming/downloading working for Android soon as it works really well, though I rarely ever stream off site. I usually just download for off site viewing as it's hard to keep good LTE signals for long in much of the NYC area, especially when you're moving on a bus. I don't want to get into an Android vs. iOS debate but the Tivo app/Stream was one of the primary reasons I decided to get and iOS tablet over an Android one. It's probably my most used app on my ipad if you don't include the basic core functionality like email and web browsing.
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Old 01-14-2014, 04:52 PM   #12
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There are too many video CODECs and variables associated with android. I use android, and am perfectly happy with it. I LIKE MY android PHONE.

But, it is not simplistic to support video streaming, even video playing is problematic. I have a Nexus 5, and often it will not play certain videos.

iOS is a closed wall system, a developer can write to a specific set of conditions and it will work across the board, mostly. Certainly far more so than android.

On android, who (generic Nexus, Samsung, etc.) do you choose to support...and worse, which level of android release? As soon as they say "we support android x.xx forward" those who are excluded scream bloody murder.

I wish the developer VP Margaret would send a message and be honest about a timeframe, etc. I suspect most of the forum members would appreciate candor and the honest engineering issues they face.

Not saying it cannot be done, but think how long it took Skype to reliably support android.
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Old 01-14-2014, 05:19 PM   #13
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I'm not sure why people keep offering Slingbox as a substitute for OOH streaming. If you live by yourself, sure-- no difference. But it renders the TiVo unusable for anyone else in the family while somebody is using it for Slingbox.
There are a couple of people who have dedicated a Mini to a Slingbox specifically for this reason. Expensive, but effective. Although personally I could never stand the control lag when using a Slingbox. The difference between what you're seeing and what's actually playing on the box is so big that even with 30 second skip navigation is a huge PITA.
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Old 01-14-2014, 05:24 PM   #14
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One more potential piece of bad news... Unless TiVo completely changes the protocol or licenses a 3rd party SDK (both unlikely) Android streaming is going to be limited to 4.0+, maybe even 4.2+, devices. The Stream uses a technology called encrypted HLS. HLS support wasn't added to Android until 4.0, and even then was "broken" until 4.2. Apparently there are some workarounds to get it working on 4.0-4.1, so they may be able to get that working, but lower versions would require a 3rd party SDK which might prove to be too expensive for them to license. (depends on the terms, but most SDKs are per-seat)

So all you Android users might still be disappointed when it's released if you have an older devices running an older version of the OS.

On the plus side... Back in July Adobe added encrypted HLS support to Flash, so there is now hope for a browser based interface for PCs.
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Old 01-14-2014, 05:50 PM   #15
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One more potential piece of bad news... Unless TiVo completely changes the protocol or licenses a 3rd party SDK (both unlikely) Android streaming is going to be limited to 4.0+, maybe even 4.2+, devices. The Stream uses a technology called encrypted HLS. HLS support wasn't added to Android until 4.0, and even then was "broken" until 4.2. Apparently there are some workarounds to get it working on 4.0-4.1, so they may be able to get that working, but lower versions would require a 3rd party SDK which might prove to be too expensive for them to license. (depends on the terms, but most SDKs are per-seat)

So all you Android users might still be disappointed when it's released if you have an older devices running an older version of the OS.

On the plus side... Back in July Adobe added encrypted HLS support to Flash, so there is now hope for a browser based interface for PCs.
So, Kindle Fire still possible (HD 8.9, newer HD/HDX)-? HD 8.9 (2012) is based on android 4, right? or would this support be missing from Kindle OS?
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Old 01-14-2014, 06:17 PM   #16
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There are too many video CODECs and variables associated with android. I use android, and am perfectly happy with it. I LIKE MY android PHONE.
Actually that is not much of a problem anymore. All modern Android devices (that would be supported) include hardware decoding for mpeg4/h264/aac. It is a non-issue now. Would have been several years ago, but not anymore. Pretty much any Android 4.X device has all the tools and support needed now. And I don't think anyone expects that ALL Android devices will be supported- that is just not realistic (just like not all iOS devices are supported). As long as there are no ARTIFICIAL limitations (picking "approved" brands or models not based on compatibility, but based on politics or kickbacks or what has been tested) , I am fine with that.

Quote:
I wish the developer VP Margaret would send a message and be honest about a timeframe, etc. I suspect most of the forum members would appreciate candor and the honest engineering issues they face.
+1
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Old 01-14-2014, 06:27 PM   #17
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One more potential piece of bad news... Unless TiVo completely changes the protocol or licenses a 3rd party SDK (both unlikely) Android streaming is going to be limited to 4.0+, maybe even 4.2+, devices. The Stream uses a technology called encrypted HLS. HLS support wasn't added to Android until 4.0, and even then was "broken" until 4.2. Apparently there are some workarounds to get it working on 4.0-4.1, so they may be able to get that working, but lower versions would require a 3rd party SDK which might prove to be too expensive for them to license. (depends on the terms, but most SDKs are per-seat)

So all you Android users might still be disappointed when it's released if you have an older devices running an older version of the OS.

On the plus side... Back in July Adobe added encrypted HLS support to Flash, so there is now hope for a browser based interface for PCs.
That sounds good for me then. My cell phone was recently upgraded to Android 4.2.2. And my Nexus 7 is on 4.4.
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Old 01-14-2014, 06:42 PM   #18
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just like not all iOS devices are supported
The TiVo app supports iOS 5+ which means everything except iPhone 1 & 3 and the first two generations of the iPod Touch. Which means pretty much every device currently still in use.

Because Android is so much more fragmented I'm betting there is a much bigger list of unsupported devices on that side.
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Old 01-14-2014, 06:42 PM   #19
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TiVo just updated their iOS app with a new icon yet the entire app is still not optimized for iOS 7. Apple will not even accept the app after Feb 1st if they try to send an update to them for approval. This doesn't bode well for Android support. Honestly, until they hire a different company than the one they currently use for their mobile apps, then their mobile support will continue to be lacking.
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Old 01-14-2014, 06:43 PM   #20
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So, Kindle Fire still possible (HD 8.9, newer HD/HDX)-? HD 8.9 (2012) is based on android 4, right? or would this support be missing from Kindle OS?
I don't know. Depends on how it was branched.
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Old 01-14-2014, 06:45 PM   #21
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Because Android is so much more fragmented I'm betting there is a much bigger list of unsupported devices on that side.
True but I doubt hardware fragmentation has anything to do with this year long delay. The fact is they use a single company to handle developing their Android and iOS apps and they clearly are not able to quickly iterate. They still haven't updated their app for iOS 7 even though iOS is clearly their #1 priority.
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Old 01-14-2014, 06:47 PM   #22
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True but I doubt hardware fragmentation has anything to do with this year long delay. The fact is they use a single company to handle developing their Android and iOS apps and they clearly are not able to quickly iterate. They still haven't updated their app for iOS 7 even though iOS is clearly their #1 priority.
How do you know they use the same company for iOS and Android. I,m pretty sure they use outside developers for both apps, but this is the first I've heard that the same developers were working on both.
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Old 01-14-2014, 06:54 PM   #23
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How do you know they use the same company for iOS and Android. I,m pretty sure they use outside developers for both apps, but this is the first I've heard that the same developers were working on both.
It is possible they are not but if you notice they never release any features on both platforms at the same time. It appears they pay the development team to create updates at different intervals. Regardless, whoever is developing their mobile apps on either platform is not putting a lot of resources into development.
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Old 01-15-2014, 10:11 AM   #24
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I'm assuming this is who use to develop their apps but now that they are owned by PayPal, TiVo is using someone different (or doing it themselves). This is probably the reason for the delay of the Android app and the updates to the iOS app to allow mobile streaming.
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Old 01-15-2014, 09:35 PM   #25
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I wish the developer VP Margaret would send a message and be honest about a timeframe, etc. I suspect most of the forum members would appreciate candor and the honest engineering issues they face.
This.

I appreciate that a company can't respond to every rumor. Nor reply every time someone asks something about anything. But in this case, they have already stated on the record that Android support is forthcoming. Since that was about six months ago, and one or two significant updates ago, a brief "here's what's going on" would be a very customer friendly thing to do.

Tell me I have "x" months to go,and I wait "x" months. Don't say anything, and well... this thread is what you get.
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Old 01-15-2014, 10:04 PM   #26
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Come on.

When things are months away in software development, it is stupid to try to pick a specific date.

Margret said it'll be in the coming months and that is likely the most specific it can be.

https://twitter.com/tivodesign/statu...37684377067521
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Old 01-15-2014, 10:30 PM   #27
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Tell me I have "x" months to go,and I wait "x" months. Don't say anything, and well... this thread is what you get.
The opposite is also true. If they say 3 months and it is 3.5 months, then people come here to tell us how TiVo is the worst company in the world for missing a deadline that was never meant to be public.
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Old 01-15-2014, 10:36 PM   #28
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they have already stated on the record that Android support is forthcoming. Since that was about six months ago,
Actually, they stated Android support was coming (but without any time indicator) when the Stream was released, 1.25 years ago. And I expected to wait at least 6 months... probably even a year. But this is getting crazy.
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Old 01-16-2014, 08:02 AM   #29
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I can't remember when it was but I thought I read in a thread here somewhere that Android streaming was expected in the early part of 2014 (first quarter is what stuck in my mind). It may have been in relation to the Roamio (with the builtin stream) being introduced but my memory is a little fuzzy.
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Old 01-16-2014, 08:05 AM   #30
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I'm not sure why people keep offering Slingbox as a substitute for OOH streaming. If you live by yourself, sure-- no difference. But it renders the TiVo unusable for anyone else in the family while somebody is using it for Slingbox.
If that is a concern, Slingbox with a Mini.

We have multiple Tivos and our slingbox is connected to one that sees little direct use, mostly for recording items with conflicts from the main Roamio.
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