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Old 01-09-2014, 11:24 PM   #271
mikeyts
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Just a nit--720p is also HD, available on Netflix at 2350- and 3000 Kbps. It is the resolution of ABC HD, Fox HD and most HD cable channels and many if not most HD streaming services and was the only HD resolution available on Netflix until a few years ago.
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Old 01-09-2014, 11:55 PM   #272
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Just a nit--720p is also HD, available on Netflix at 2350- and 3000 Kbps. It is the resolution of ABC HD, Fox HD and most HD cable channels and many if not most HD streaming services and was the only HD resolution available on Netflix until a few years ago.
True. Although with Netflix it is not really the resolution that matters. The higher the bitrate, the better quality the encode is. So while 720p is fine for HD channels, the encodes on Netflix that are 720p are no where near as good as the "Super HD" ones. It that has little to do with the resolution.
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Old 01-13-2014, 11:22 AM   #273
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Sigh. Had another reboot just after midnight. Everything seemed to be working just fine with the "return of the profiles" (hmmm...sounds like the name of a reunion tour for an 80s band). No change in Netflix UI. No overt changes. No network loss or bizarre fluctuations on my end that I could detect. Nothing. Zip. Nada. Just another out of the blue "Hey, think I'll reboot just for the heck of it because I can" kind of of reboot. Think the longest I've gone without a reboot at any time since buying the Roamio is 12 days. This time I squeezed only 8 days out of it. Also, this time it took 7-8 minutes to reboot. Seemed a bit longer than usual.

If only a certain percentage of people on this forum experience reboots (and assuming they are reported here), one can only wonder how many folks who aren't even aware of the forum experience them. There must be some common denominators for those who do and those who don't.
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Old 01-13-2014, 02:23 PM   #274
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Where the heck is Tivo Margaret. She had mentioned something last year about an upcoming release that was supposed to fix this and now nothing.
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Old 01-14-2014, 11:49 AM   #275
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She's probably just getting back and settled in from CES I would think.
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Old 01-15-2014, 01:40 PM   #276
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I'm not having reboots, but I've started getting Netflix not connecting errors.
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Old 02-11-2014, 09:02 PM   #277
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Sorry if I am going over old territory, but my two irritations with the current Netflix app on my Roamio Pro are:

1) Video almost always starts at a low quality. This is similar to what I experienced on my Premiere, which I almost never would use for Netflix. On my PS3, things almost always start at a high quality. I don't always check to see exactly what the quality is, but it is at least 720p. The upshot is that when I am watching a show when a show doesn't open with credits, etc., I get very irritated with the quality. This persists when I am watching a series of episodes. Each subsequent episode goes back to the low streaming quality before it ramps up to HD or "SuperHD" levels.

I suspect that this is unavoidable without changes by Tivo/Netflix on the app, but I'd love to be wrong.

2. When I try to track what sorts of quality are coming in, I press the info button to get the quality information in the corner. If I press it again to make that information go away, part of the overlay remains, and the part that disappears is fully transparent. This is quite unpleasant, and I haven't found a way past this glitch, other than to get out of the show, and get back into it. Am I missing something? Is everyone seeing this behavior?

Optimistic that the second problem will be an easy bug fix. Pessimistic that the slow quality throttling is by-design, and will drive me back to my PS3 for any "critical viewing". At least the kids don't seem to care for their stuff.
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Old 02-11-2014, 09:38 PM   #278
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2. When I try to track what sorts of quality are coming in, I press the info button to get the quality information in the corner. If I press it again to make that information go away, part of the overlay remains, and the part that disappears is fully transparent. This is quite unpleasant, and I haven't found a way past this glitch, other than to get out of the show, and get back into it. Am I missing something? Is everyone seeing this behavior?

Optimistic that the second problem will be an easy bug fix. Pessimistic that the slow quality throttling is by-design, and will drive me back to my PS3 for any "critical viewing". At least the kids don't seem to care for their stuff.
After you press the info button to remove the info, press the down arrow to bring up the play bar, then press the up arrow to hide the play bar.

That should remove all bit rate info from the screen.

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Old 02-11-2014, 11:20 PM   #279
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The stream info bobble isn't a bug, since it's an undocumented debugging tool . There've been problems with it before, some of which took months for them to get around to repairing. As long as it doesn't bother the developers they've got better things to do.

Be happy that it's available at all; most devices don't have it.
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Old 02-12-2014, 03:11 PM   #280
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1) Video almost always starts at a low quality. This is similar to what I experienced on my Premiere, which I almost never would use for Netflix. On my PS3, things almost always start at a high quality. I don't always check to see exactly what the quality is, but it is at least 720p. The upshot is that when I am watching a show when a show doesn't open with credits, etc., I get very irritated with the quality. This persists when I am watching a series of episodes. Each subsequent episode goes back to the low streaming quality before it ramps up to HD or "SuperHD" levels.
In the Netflix site you can set your quality, the default is auto, that why you may have your problem, try setting the quality to the highest and that may solve your problem as I never have your problem of starting at low quality, my Netflix comes out at 1080p /24 all the time using my Roamio plus and a MoCA interface.
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Old 02-12-2014, 03:17 PM   #281
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In the Netflix site you can set your quality, the default is auto, that why you may have your problem, try setting the quality to the highest and that may solve your problem as I never have your problem of starting at low quality, my Netflix comes out at 1080p /24 all the time using my Roamio plus and a MoCA interface.
I have mine set to High in Netflix and both my Roamios are hardwired to a 50/10 Comcast connection. Both Roamios start at low quality most of the time and ramp up.

By far my ATV is the fastest most reliable Netflix client I have. It always starts and stays at the highest level....plus the interface is faster than Tivo.

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Old 02-12-2014, 04:18 PM   #282
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In the Netflix site you can set your quality, the default is auto, that why you may have your problem, try setting the quality to the highest and that may solve your problem as I never have your problem of starting at low quality, my Netflix comes out at 1080p /24 all the time using my Roamio plus and a MoCA interface.
I really don't think that has much if anything to do with it. The "High" setting has an explicit limit, 3 GB/hour. If that limit is observed you could not get the 12 Mbps 3D encodes, which are 5.5 GBph w/192 Kbps DD+ 5.1 sound; you'd have to set it to "Auto".
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Old 02-12-2014, 09:49 PM   #283
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In the Netflix site you can set your quality, the default is auto, that why you may have your problem, try setting the quality to the highest and that may solve your problem as I never have your problem of starting at low quality, my Netflix comes out at 1080p /24 all the time using my Roamio plus and a MoCA interface.
Thanks for the suggestion, but I tend to agree that it doesn't affect the Tivo. It was already set on High. If I had to guess, the setting only affects playback on the web, but maybe it will throttle other devices.
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Old 08-27-2014, 03:41 PM   #284
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TiVo Roamio now gets my vote for the best Netflix player of several devices I have with Netflix players attached to TVs (PS3, Roku 3, Roku 2 XS, TiVo Premiere, TiVo Series3, Xbox 360, WD TV Live, 2 Panasonic and one Sony BDP and the various ways of playing Netflix on this PC). The PS3 previously held that title and my old TiVo Premiere featured one of the worst.

Navigation of the UI is fairly snappy; it starts up in 8 seconds and starts streams in about 3 seconds, immediately jumping to the highest available bit rate video encode and usually sticking there. It features a version of the stream info overlay that I really like (toggled on and off with INFO) which even has an indication of bit rate so you can tell which "720 HD" or "1080 Super HD" encode you're looking at.

TiVos can also output Netflix at 1080p24, a fairly rare capability.

It replaces my Roku 3 as my Netflix viewing platform of choice.
I was browsing the web looking for stuff on the Tivo Roamio netflix app and how bad it is, but this seems to be more the concensus instead.

It's not so much that my Roamio's netflix app doesn't work, it just doesn't work nearly as well as, say, my PS3 one. It takes A LOT longer to get to a decent HD quality look, and even when it does it's a noticeable smidge less sharp and good looking than what the PS3 can produce.

What's the deal? Do I maybe have this older Netflix app people are talking about? I doubt that's the case given my Roamio has updated pretty decently and the app otherwise seems up to date...but yeah, the performance is certainly lacking.

I don't know where the option is to display the bitrate, but I'd really like to get that up for further testing, as I'm definitely not getting this implied level of performance, whereas my PS3 has (but of course using my Tivo in many instances is a lot more convenient, so I'd like to get this issue addressed).
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Old 08-27-2014, 04:50 PM   #285
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It's not so much that my Roamio's netflix app doesn't work, it just doesn't work nearly as well as, say, my PS3 one. It takes A LOT longer to get to a decent HD quality look, and even when it does it's a noticeable smidge less sharp and good looking than what the PS3 can produce.
There are several issues that can cause your results to be different. It is possible the network on your Roamio is not as stable. Are you using wireless? Are both your PS3 and TiVo wired? Also, do you have them on different inputs? Are both your inputs calibrated with the same settings? Most modern tvs have different settings for each input.

For me, the Roamio is the only client (although the Xbox One does sometimes) that starts with the highest quality.

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I don't know where the option is to display the bitrate
Just hit info on your remote while you are streaming Netflix to see the bitrate info.
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Old 08-27-2014, 04:54 PM   #286
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There are several issues that can cause your results to be different. It is possible the network on your Roamio is not as stable. Are you using wireless? Are both your PS3 and TiVo wired? Also, do you have them on different inputs? Are both your inputs calibrated with the same settings? Most modern tvs have different settings for each input.

For me, the Roamio is the only client (although the Xbox One does sometimes) that starts with the highest quality.



Just hit info on your remote while you are streaming Netflix to see the bitrate info.
None of those potential issues are applicable. The PS3 and Roamio are both on the same wireless network, (and the PS3 is a lot older of a device, so I would not expect it's wireless chip or capabilities to be superior..). I also tried switching the Roamio to my 2.4ghz band just to see if it would help, and it didn't.

As for the inputs, that has absolutely zero to do with it, this is about streaming quality/performance. But they are on the same input given I use a receiver. But even if they weren't, that isn't the issue.
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Old 08-27-2014, 06:08 PM   #287
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As for the inputs, that has absolutely zero to do with it, this is about streaming quality/performance. But they are on the same input given I use a receiver. But even if they weren't, that isn't the issue.
You would be surprised how many people think there is an issue because they never configure their settings except on their main input. What people perceive as poor streaming quality can also be a terrible picture setup on a certain input. That said, the issue you are having is not normal as the Roamio quality for Netflix streaming is the same or better than any device I have tried (Roku, Apple TV, Xbox One, etc).
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Old 08-27-2014, 07:37 PM   #288
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Maybe instead of advising those who can't figure out the inputs have different settings, to calibrate their inputs, they should be advised to get a HDMI switch, and run all streaming devices to the TV input that looks best to them.

I have to admit, as technical a guy as I am, I took the easy way and made my settings apply to all inputs. I can tweak the picture enough with mode profile presets, to deal with different content. I'm not sure if all sets have that ability, thus the idea of the HDMI switch. But, Sony Bravia TVs + HDMI switch + Roamio = too many added issues added to with direct HDMI-connect, for me... I never had so many HDMI issues with TiVo HDs or Premieres.
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Old 09-03-2014, 05:06 PM   #289
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You would be surprised how many people think there is an issue because they never configure their settings except on their main input. What people perceive as poor streaming quality can also be a terrible picture setup on a certain input. That said, the issue you are having is not normal as the Roamio quality for Netflix streaming is the same or better than any device I have tried (Roku, Apple TV, Xbox One, etc).
I would be surprised indeed, especially since that is NOT the issue, like I already implied.

Seriously, I can understand how perhaps a layman may mistake a poor netflix bitrate for their picture settings being wrong input being off but not only is that most definitely not what's going on with me, but it's not even remotely close/possible. IF my picture settings being off was the issue, I would notice right away given how I have my television and home theater setup.

Anyway, it was quite literally a bitrate ceiling, which as of last night, I fixed by switching to a 5.8ghz wireless band (albeit lower signal strength, which is why I had it on the 2.4ghz in the first place). I will say though, some of this fault lies with the Tivo, because I have several devices sitting near and around it that get much better reception, leading me to believe it's wireless chip just isn't quite as good (although to be fair, despite whatever issues I was having with the 5.8ghz band earlier that caused me to make this initial change, once I switched back things did eventually kick all the way up to 1080p super HD, which I didn't even think I was still able to get :P ) .

Seems like the next order of business is to get a newer AC Wireless router (even though the Tivo wifi chip is not AC, I'm sure a top end AC wireless router will still have some sort of meaty range boosting antennae system that would trump my aging draft-n Netgear situation).
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Old 09-03-2014, 05:20 PM   #290
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The Roamio wireless operates at both 2.4 & 5GHz (or 5.8 as you said)? If so, concurrently?

Last I checked, I thought only cordless phones operated at 5.8GHz (older ones, right before DECT took them way down below 2.4GHz).
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Old 09-03-2014, 05:41 PM   #291
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It's 5GHz. The Roamio does support 5GHz. Not sure what you mean by concurrently. It's a single device so it can only have one connection at a time. (it doesn't do wifi bridging)
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Old 09-03-2014, 06:01 PM   #292
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It's 5GHz. The Roamio does support 5GHz. Not sure what you mean by concurrently. It's a single device so it can only have one connection at a time. (it doesn't do wifi bridging)
Dual-band WiFi 2.4 & 5GHz at same time, as opposed to "switched" where you have to pick only one. Many devices went dual-band concurrent, while some stuck with 2.4 only, due to too many issues with 5GHz and walls/obstructions.

Wireless AC is dual-band concurrent to get the advertised speeds.

A netgear N900 router only operates at 450 per band (theoretical maximum speeds, of course). So, a dual-band device gets 900, while a single band device gets only 450, regardless of which one it uses.

Last I checked, the older devices need "3x3" (3tx x 3rx) antennas just to get 450 and in both directions (150 per antenna).

I have 5GHz on my router turned off, because I hardware everything but phones, and chromecasts (and my chromecasts only do 2.4GHz, even though I keep reading they can do 5Ghz - but not stable enough to bother with and not recommended).
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Old 09-04-2014, 12:06 PM   #293
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Dual-band WiFi 2.4 & 5GHz at same time, as opposed to "switched" where you have to pick only one. Many devices went dual-band concurrent, while some stuck with 2.4 only, due to too many issues with 5GHz and walls/obstructions.

Wireless AC is dual-band concurrent to get the advertised speeds.

A netgear N900 router only operates at 450 per band (theoretical maximum speeds, of course). So, a dual-band device gets 900, while a single band device gets only 450, regardless of which one it uses.

Last I checked, the older devices need "3x3" (3tx x 3rx) antennas just to get 450 and in both directions (150 per antenna).

I have 5GHz on my router turned off, because I hardware everything but phones, and chromecasts (and my chromecasts only do 2.4GHz, even though I keep reading they can do 5Ghz - but not stable enough to bother with and not recommended).
Hah, the router I've been using is the N600 (it was top of the line back when I got it and I don't believe anything above it existed at the time). It was great when I got it. I could even use it competently across the street from my place even, but either due to it somehow purposefully reigning in it's range (perhaps as a natural security measure?), or performance degradation over time (I've heard that can happen?), it doesn't seem to have the range oomph it used to.

Anyway, it still does do the trick in this case, but I have been pondering an AC router for a bit now given even without an AC chip I have to assume a top end one would have a lot of power and range behind it.

Anyway, I don't know much about this "concurrent" business, it almost sounds like a bad idea to let the router try and auto switch things? But yeah, in my case and with my router, I pick the band. Even at my routers best it seems it has trouble getting the full brunt of my internet speeds, I never realized that wireless stuff had so much lost to overhead, bringing us down a long way from those theoretical maximums (and even our top internet speeds).

But yeah, might be time to get one of those Netgear Nighthawks..
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Old 09-04-2014, 12:22 PM   #294
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You mentioned above that both PS3 and Roamio are on wireless. Are you using the built-in wireless networking of the Roamio, or a separate Wi-Fi adapter hooked to the Ethernet port of the Roamio?

The internal wireless card in the Roamio has been the source of countless issues for people. Streaming quality issues are most likely associated with poor signal reception of the Roamio's internal wireless card.
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Old 09-04-2014, 01:14 PM   #295
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Dual-band WiFi 2.4 & 5GHz at same time, as opposed to "switched" where you have to pick only one. Many devices went dual-band concurrent, while some stuck with 2.4 only, due to too many issues with 5GHz and walls/obstructions.

Wireless AC is dual-band concurrent to get the advertised speeds.

A netgear N900 router only operates at 450 per band (theoretical maximum speeds, of course). So, a dual-band device gets 900, while a single band device gets only 450, regardless of which one it uses.

Last I checked, the older devices need "3x3" (3tx x 3rx) antennas just to get 450 and in both directions (150 per antenna).

I have 5GHz on my router turned off, because I hardware everything but phones, and chromecasts (and my chromecasts only do 2.4GHz, even though I keep reading they can do 5Ghz - but not stable enough to bother with and not recommended).
Yes but that all applies to the router or access point. The devices typically connect to one network at a time and IIRC the 2.4GHz and 5GHz legs typically present themselves to devices as two separate networks with different SSIDs. So TiVo can still only connect to one or the other, not both at the same time.

Although I'm not all that up on wifi technology, so if there is some way for a single network to actually transition from 2.4GHz to 5GHz then I'm not sure if the Roamio handles that or not. I use MoCa on mine so I never really played with the wifi part.
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Old 09-04-2014, 02:47 PM   #296
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...and IIRC the 2.4GHz and 5GHz legs typically present themselves to devices as two separate networks with different SSIDs.
I use Apple routers (Airport Extreme on one side of house, Airport Express on the other side of house) and both the 2.4 and 5 GHz networks have the same SSID (name). Makes things much simpler and easier.
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Old 09-04-2014, 03:03 PM   #297
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You mentioned above that both PS3 and Roamio are on wireless. Are you using the built-in wireless networking of the Roamio, or a separate Wi-Fi adapter hooked to the Ethernet port of the Roamio?

The internal wireless card in the Roamio has been the source of countless issues for people. Streaming quality issues are most likely associated with poor signal reception of the Roamio's internal wireless card.
I was using built in wireless on the roamio, no adapters or anything, that would be...clunky :P .

Interesting to hear about the internal wifi for the Roamio being problematic though, and I guess it makes sense. It's probably why I switched to my 2ghz band a while back, thinking I may have had too many problems with the 5ghz despite not too much distance or walls. But yeah, in switching back, while, say, stuff like the Netflix app hangs a tad longer before loading, I do get those top bitrates.

I'll credit the lower signal strength to the tivo's wifi just as much as the 5ghz band, but yeah, those Nighthawks are still looking pretty good as a bandwith and coverage upgrade..
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Old 09-04-2014, 06:06 PM   #298
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My Netgear WNDR3800 Premium is pretty terrible for wireless. I bought it for the built in TiVo functions, but soon found that its standard USB port, with a drive plugged in takes up all it's limited resources indexing data.

It's great as a wired router. The wireless has an option to "create a video network", which is only applicable to the 5GHz band.

Last I checked, the wireless built-into the Roamios was not intended for streaming video, but was there to allow the realtime TiVo service to operate, and for scheduled service connections. It was "you're on your own" if you tried to actually use it for streaming services, which might work, but TiVo did not provide support for if it didn't.

I don't need a lecture on setting up a wireless network correctly. I just bought three of the Netgear WNDR4700 Centria N900 ones http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16833122487 with internal drive bays at fire-sale pricing. They have AP and repeater modes, and I'll be strategically placing them around the house. $49 new? If at least one part of each one works decently, I'll be set, and it cost me $150. I did buy one at higher price before grabbing two more, but I think I still got it for half price, IIRC (shell-shocker, combo, or free w/modem deal). The biggest complaint about them is the internal fan is really loud. I'm sure I can fix that, or work around it.
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Old 09-04-2014, 09:46 PM   #299
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I use Apple routers (Airport Extreme on one side of house, Airport Express on the other side of house) and both the 2.4 and 5 GHz networks have the same SSID (name). Makes things much simpler and easier.
Regardless of how the SSIDs present themselves, the 2.4 and 5GHz bands aren't used together to provide more bandwidth/speed. Those higher speeds are as a result of using multiple channels on a single band plus tricks using multiple antennas/streams. Of course this only applies when both ends of the wireless link support it, which most likely the built-in TiVo adapter doesn't. I think you'd have to use a separate wireless bridge for that.
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Old 09-05-2014, 04:50 AM   #300
DeltaOne
Mount Airy, MD
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by ydc View Post
Regardless of how the SSIDs present themselves, the 2.4 and 5GHz bands aren't used together to provide more bandwidth/speed.
Correct.

I should have been more clear -- the "makes things simpler and easier" was for folks using smartphones, tablets and laptops in our house. Each device chooses the best connection for it. Simple and easy.

My Roamio and two Minis are connected via Ethernet. I always use Ethernet for devices that stay in one place.
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