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Old 12-24-2013, 12:08 AM   #751
jwbelcher
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philmatic View Post
I got to say, since installing 20.3.8, I've been able to re-enable my 5th and 6th tuners and all is well. My late night Friends recordings no longer crap out halfway through and I no longer turn on the TV to find V58 errors.

I'm happy. This is Cox in Santa Barbara btw, Cisco Cablecard PKM800 with PKEY1.5.3_F.p.0601 installed an SA SDV adapter. I don't believe any of my issues were due to the CableCard, my issues were solely isolated to SDV tuning issues.
Did you have both V58 and the black-screen issue? I'm still on 20.3.7 + PKEY1.5.3_F.p.0601 -- along with a recent Cisco TA firmware that the cableco pushed out to address the black-screen issue.

I'm getting V58 after few hours, but no longer have tuning failures. The V58 lasts for about 10 secs and repeats approx every 55 mins. Also, oddly enough, when I get the V58 message, video freezes, but audio is not affected.

Curious if anyone else had the similar symptoms with PKEY1.5.3_F.p.0601.
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Old 12-24-2013, 08:47 AM   #752
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What version do I need? This card 'updated' when I first plugged it in. Do I need a new card? Or, how do I get a firmware update?
Ideally you need 1.5.3 1101 firmware. The way most of us have received the firmware update is via a Comcast download to the card. You need to bug them until they send it to you.

The card should be model 800 or higher.
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Old 12-24-2013, 10:33 AM   #753
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Or, how do I get a firmware update?
If you are not able to get Comcast to specifically update your CableCARD, the thread below appears to indicate that all Comcast areas "are expected to start being updated in early 2014." This is not the best answer to your question, but hopefully it helps.

http://forums.comcast.com/t5/Xfinity...501473/page/25
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Old 12-24-2013, 10:40 AM   #754
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I am not sure if the 1.5.3.1101 will be deployed to all Comcast areas. There are multiple Comcast customers who are apparently having problems with the firmware with some CableCARD tuners. Described in the thread below.

http://www.silicondust.com/forum2/vi...t=16218#p95339
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Old 12-25-2013, 02:46 PM   #755
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Okay, I've confirmed that I do have six tuners available. I hooked up the three mini's, tuning each to a different live channel and then the roamio on a diff channel, then clicked live tv on roamio to switch tuner, and set to diff channel, then did this again.

Looked at DVD Diags and tuners 0-5 all showed the channels I had tuned to.

Each one was an encrypted channel 0x02 CCI and all six were working both video and audio.

That tells me that my card and comcast support six tuners and encrypted as well.

With that said, WHY do I still get the v58 errors on various, random channels, and sometimes I can switch up and down, and then they 'miraculously' tune in.

Is there something else I should be checking?

I've have the following setup: SA Powerkey CableCard (HW 1.2 "F") with firmware: PKEY_1.5.2_F.p.3001 firmware

1 Roamio connected to router via ethernet
3 Mini's connected via moca

I have the feed from the street split on a 2-way, one to cable modem, one to an POE then an 6-way splitter.

Each feed to devices is a home run (no splitters) to the 6-way.

the splitters are 5-2400mhz rated.

I have good signals via moca, and looking at the diags SNR's around 35-37 and Strength at 95-97%

Moca status are PHY's at around 280 for both RX and TX and Power at -4 to -10 for RX and .4ish for TX.

I don't see where anything else can be an issue, but I'm plagued to death with these v58 errors.

Last edited by jntc : 12-25-2013 at 03:05 PM.
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Old 12-25-2013, 03:28 PM   #756
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Try reducing your available tuners on the Roamio to 5 tuners and see if the problem goes away. If it does, it simply means your CC needs a firmware upgrade to support 6 tuners all the time. The V58 errors tend to take several hours of operation before they start showing up...
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Old 12-25-2013, 04:26 PM   #757
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Try reducing your available tuners on the Roamio to 5 tuners and see if the problem goes away. If it does, it simply means your CC needs a firmware upgrade to support 6 tuners all the time. The V58 errors tend to take several hours of operation before they start showing up...
I've stated that reducing the tuners (even to one) doesn't do anything to alleviate the v58 errors. Also, I am able to tune in on all 6 tuners.

I've set to one, two, three, four, five and six, and still v58 errors galore.

I've also had comcast re-pair the card, as well as tried three diff cards (all same hw and fw revs though)

Oh, and just for what it's worth, there is no 'simple' method of getting a firmware update, you're at the mercy of what your cable co is deploying.
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Old 12-25-2013, 04:57 PM   #758
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I had the same thing happening too. One thing that points to the Roamio being at fault is if you set it to record 5 separate channels (I always used SDV channels as a torture test), then go thru the channel lineup with the remaining tuner you'll see numerous tuning errors, but if you then try to tune the EXACT SAME channels via a mini, it almost always works without issue! Explain that TiVo?
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Old 12-25-2013, 07:14 PM   #759
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I've set to one, two, three, four, five and six, and still v58 errors galore.
You can set Roamio to 1 or 2 tuners? I tried this back in September and 3 tuners was the minimum using the codes :

- 88633 = use 3 tuners
- 88634 = use 4 tuners
- 88635 = use 5 tuners
- 88636 = use 6 tuners

I wanted to try 2 tuners since my TivoHD is very reliable.
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Old 12-25-2013, 07:28 PM   #760
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Originally Posted by jwbelcher View Post
You can set Roamio to 1 or 2 tuners? I tried this back in September and 3 tuners was the minimum using the codes :

- 88633 = use 3 tuners
- 88634 = use 4 tuners
- 88635 = use 5 tuners
- 88636 = use 6 tuners

I wanted to try 2 tuners since my TivoHD is very reliable.
Realized on the roamio it wasn't giving the tones (i had them off) so I think 3 is the minimum
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Old 12-25-2013, 07:30 PM   #761
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I had the same thing happening too. One thing that points to the Roamio being at fault is if you set it to record 5 separate channels (I always used SDV channels as a torture test), then go thru the channel lineup with the remaining tuner you'll see numerous tuning errors, but if you then try to tune the EXACT SAME channels via a mini, it almost always works without issue! Explain that TiVo?
Exactly, I had one mini sitting right next to the roamio, and you're absolutely correct! The mini will tune to the v58 channel displaying on the Roamio at the exact same time!

This is really pointing to a Tivo issue. I tried to open a ticket, but was told that it was 'a comcast issue with firmware and until they update the firmware, there is nothing Tivo can do'.
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Old 12-25-2013, 07:38 PM   #762
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Realized on the roamio it wasn't giving the tones (i had them off) so I think 3 is the minimum
And after you rebooted with 3 tuners, you still had v58 errors? Most folks have reported some relief by reducing tuner count.
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Old 12-25-2013, 08:10 PM   #763
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And after you rebooted with 3 tuners, you still had v58 errors? Most folks have reported some relief by reducing tuner count.
Yes, and to top it off, I even removed -everything- except the roamio, and still had v58 errors on many channels. It's random too. I can 're-tune' the channel and it will work (occasionally, it's hit or miss really)

This is my second roamio too, the first was having the same issues, and more. This is driving me nuts, and Tivo says it's a comcast problem with the firmware.
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Old 12-25-2013, 08:52 PM   #764
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Yes, and to top it off, I even removed -everything- except the roamio, and still had v58 errors on many channels. It's random too. I can 're-tune' the channel and it will work (occasionally, it's hit or miss really)

This is my second roamio too, the first was having the same issues, and more. This is driving me nuts, and Tivo says it's a comcast problem with the firmware.
Unfortunately I can not come to your home and troubleshoot the wiring in your home. 95% of the time issues with cable TV equipment occur with poor wiring, F connectors, splitters, and amps in the customers home.
Here is a link to an explanation to a simple problem with splitters that most customers never realize:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...89#post9945789

Here is a video explaining this:

Cable 101: Passive Troubleshooting
You need to upgrade your Flash Player

A simple explanation to MoCa filters:

MoCA Series - Part 1 - MoCA Passives - Extreme Broadband
You need to upgrade your Flash Player

Here is a bunch of videos on basic cable TV signal topics to help you understand how easy it is for things to go wrong.
http://www.youtube.com/user/EBETrain...sort=dd&view=0

What you need to do is get a good Comcast technician to come to your home and thoroughly inspect your wiring in your home for any issues. As you can see by these videos a lot can go wrong and since you do not have a cable TV analyzer to check for these issues you should hold off blaming TiVo or the CableCards until your wiring can be verified to be good.
Also would I be correct that you have a splitter at the back of the TiVo in order to use the tuning adaptor. If so this can be an issue also. You can be experiencing to much insertion loss topped with return loss and isolation issues from the splitters you are using.
Insertion loss:

Cable 101 - Insertion Loss
You need to upgrade your Flash Player
Return loss:

Cable 101 - Return Loss
You need to upgrade your Flash Player
Isolation:

Cable 101 - Isolation
You need to upgrade your Flash Player

Once you can verify that the issue is not with the infrastructure then you can move onto the hardware.
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Old 12-26-2013, 09:06 AM   #765
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Excellent write-up, Jed1!

I've watched these those videos from time to time, and even though I have, I often forget a few things.

While I can't say they have helped me to "fix" anything, directly, or given me any "AHA, that's it!" moments, they are still good to watch every so often. You will never consider going "cheap" on splitters (including expensive ones that are cheap on the inside), once you have absorbed the what these videos contain. I was already long past this, as the only splitters that ever worked correctly for me, actually were given to me from Cox trucks (and I generously tip the kind ones who let me raid their supplies, knowing that to find and buy an equal splitter, would not be easy, or cheap, locally, via retail sources).

What these videos have done for me, is to explain why my Cox market insists things be done in the way that they are now done, which includes banishing attenuators, and instead utilizing more splitters and terminating any leftover ports, as a result of adding more splitters. While they use those VERY tamper-resistant terminators, I have the tool for installing and removing them. Lately, it seems they've realized using those customer-resistant terminators can lead to more calls, as people want to add new devices. So, they have recently, in some cases, began using the standard, easily-removed terminators.
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Old 12-26-2013, 12:55 PM   #766
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From http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/2566/

Quote:
CableCARD Troubleshooting
I have a Roamio Plus or Roamio Pro, but not all of my tuners are working

There are two types of problems that will cause your Roamio Plus or Pro to lose tuner functionality—outdated firmware and copy-protected content.

Outdated firmware
CableCARDs must meet minimum firmware requirements to support the 6-tuner functionality of Roamio Plus and Pro. If your CableCARD firmware is outdated, your Roamio Plus or Pro will only have four tuners available for use. However, the DVR will continue to schedule recordings as if all six tuners were working, which will result in missing or blank recordings from the two non-functional tuners.

NOTE: If you choose to, you can manually disable tuners to avoid blank recordings. Just follow the instructions in the next section.

The following CableCARD firmware versions are capable of handling six tuners:

Motorola CableCARDs—version 2.65 or later
Cisco/Scientific Atlanta CableCARDs—OS Ver: PKEY1.5.2.2801
Motorola CableCARDs ship from Motorola with version 2.65, and should work immediately.

To check your Cisco/Scientific Atlanta CableCARD's firmware version:

From TiVo Central > Settings & Messages > Account & System Info > CableCARD Decoder > CableCARD options (for installers) > CableCARD Menu > SA CableCARD Diag Screen

Currently we have no data on compatible NDS or Conax CableCARD firmware. Nagravision CableCARDs can support four tuners only.

If you have a good connection between your DVR and the cable headend, your CableCARD should update automatically.

Tuning Adapters

If you have trouble getting your channels through a tuning adapter connected to a Roamio Series DVR, check the adapter's firmware version:

From TiVo Central > Settings & Messages > Account & System Info > Tuning Adapter

If you hava a Motorola tuning adapter, it requires firmware version xxx.36 or later (where xxx might be MTR_PLATO1 or a similar string of characters). The important thing is that the digits at the end of the string are 36 or greater.

If you have a Cisco/Scientific Atlanta tuning adapter, it requires firmware version xxx.1402 or later (where xxx might be STA1.0.0_1520_BDSG.LR_F or a similar string of characters). The important thing is that the digits at the end of the string are 1402 or greater.

Copy-protected content
The other reason you might not be able to use all 6 tuners is a software bug that impacts copy-protected material. When you view or record a copy-protected program, your CableCARD might go into a state where it can only support 5 tuners. You will be able to use all 6 tuners when you finish watching or recording the copy-protected content.

I don't have a 6-tuner-compatible CableCARD, or my CableCARD won't update its firmware

Contact your cable provider to get a new CableCARD that will support six tuners. In the meantime, you must set your Roamio Plus or Pro DVR to use four tuners. Use the following process to set the number of tuners your Roamio uses:

From TiVo Central > Settings & Messages > Settings > Channels > Channel List

While viewing the Channel List screen, enter one of the following number sequences on your Roamio remote control to set the maximum number of usable tuners:

88634 (the Roamio will use four tuners)
88635 (the Roamio will use five tuners)
88636 (the Roamio will use six tuners)

You should hear "dings" representing the newly configured tuner count.

Restart the Tivo!

Once your CableCARD has the appropriate firmware version, switch back to six tuners.


The "Copy-protected content" paragraph is interesting to me as I am able to operate without any problems on Charter using firmware version 1.5.2-Fp.2401 on my Roamio Pro as long as I only have 5 tuners active. If I activate all 6 tuners within a few days or even hours, it varies, I start getting "V58 Not Authorized" errors again.

Bottom line is the only way this will be fixed is with a firmware upgrade by Charter, there does not seem to be one forthcoming anytime soon. I'm not sure that Charter even updates firmware automatically. I say this because I installed a standard Roamio (4 -tuner) in my Sister-In-Laws room and the Firmware on the CableCard Charter provided is even older than that what is in my Roamio Pro. It has been up and running for over two weeks and the firmware release remains the same, (1.5.2-Fp.1601). Fortunately for me the 4-Tuner Roamio is happy with the older firmware. I've tried talking to Charter about upcoming firmware upgrades, but the Techs just shrug their shoulders and say they have no control or feedback on firmware upgrades.

Jed1 - Thanks for those training video links! I had found the one on MoCA and it was very helpful, I'm going through the other videos now, very helpful in understanding why things work the way they do...
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Last edited by pshivers : 12-26-2013 at 01:42 PM.
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Old 12-26-2013, 01:35 PM   #767
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jed1 View Post

Unfortunately I can not come to your home and troubleshoot the wiring in your home. 95% of the time issues with cable TV equipment occur with poor wiring, F connectors, splitters, and amps in the customers home.
Here is a link to an explanation to a simple problem with splitters that most customers never realize:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...89#post9945789

Here is a video explaining this:
Video Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk6qQF7tdzU

A simple explanation to MoCa filters:
Video Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7yknwV1YME

Here is a bunch of videos on basic cable TV signal topics to help you understand how easy it is for things to go wrong.
http://www.youtube.com/user/EBETrain...sort=dd&view=0

What you need to do is get a good Comcast technician to come to your home and thoroughly inspect your wiring in your home for any issues. As you can see by these videos a lot can go wrong and since you do not have a cable TV analyzer to check for these issues you should hold off blaming TiVo or the CableCards until your wiring can be verified to be good.
Also would I be correct that you have a splitter at the back of the TiVo in order to use the tuning adaptor. If so this can be an issue also. You can be experiencing to much insertion loss topped with return loss and isolation issues from the splitters you are using.
Insertion loss:
Video Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXgifiaDnLM
Return loss:
Video Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vf1Y46XfnWI
Isolation:
Video Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_ssUqsROAg

Once you can verify that the issue is not with the infrastructure then you can move onto the hardware.
Been there, done that. Excellent info, but it still doesn't explain why you can tune the channel with a mini, but not the host TiVo, when its using the exact same tuner for both devices.
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Old 12-26-2013, 10:10 PM   #768
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Been there, done that. Excellent info, but it still doesn't explain why you can tune the channel with a mini, but not the host TiVo, when its using the exact same tuner for both devices.
Same, I have all new cabling, all home-runs, no unused ports off the single splitter, tested and confirmed good by three technicians, one of which I think really knew his stuff. No tuning-adapter, and even a straight connection from the street with nothing else plugged in, the roamio will get random v58 errors. So, one of two things here, A: firmware issue on cablecard or B: Problem with software on roamio.

The mini tuning in the channel fine and the roamio giving a v58 at the same time (also vice-versa mini w/ v58 and roamio good), point to the software on the roamio.

Additionally, tuning six copy-protected simultaneously (confirmed with cci of 0x02) works fine.
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Old 12-27-2013, 08:53 AM   #769
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Yes, and to top it off, I even removed -everything- except the roamio, and still had v58 errors on many channels. It's random too. I can 're-tune' the channel and it will work (occasionally, it's hit or miss really)

This is my second roamio too, the first was having the same issues, and more. This is driving me nuts, and Tivo says it's a comcast problem with the firmware.
I have the exact same cablecard and problem you have. BUT, I finally set the Roamio to 5 tuners, turned on suggestions, and let it do its thing. Has recorded many shows without problems. Several times a day I cycle through the 5 tuners and do not get a V58 error. Give it a try.

I do have a a premier backing up all the shows I really want, but have not needed it.
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Old 12-27-2013, 06:06 PM   #770
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Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
Excellent write-up, Jed1!

I've watched these those videos from time to time, and even though I have, I often forget a few things.

While I can't say they have helped me to "fix" anything, directly, or given me any "AHA, that's it!" moments, they are still good to watch every so often. You will never consider going "cheap" on splitters (including expensive ones that are cheap on the inside), once you have absorbed the what these videos contain. I was already long past this, as the only splitters that ever worked correctly for me, actually were given to me from Cox trucks (and I generously tip the kind ones who let me raid their supplies, knowing that to find and buy an equal splitter, would not be easy, or cheap, locally, via retail sources).

What these videos have done for me, is to explain why my Cox market insists things be done in the way that they are now done, which includes banishing attenuators, and instead utilizing more splitters and terminating any leftover ports, as a result of adding more splitters. While they use those VERY tamper-resistant terminators, I have the tool for installing and removing them. Lately, it seems they've realized using those customer-resistant terminators can lead to more calls, as people want to add new devices. So, they have recently, in some cases, began using the standard, easily-removed terminators.
I have the security tools myself as they are used heavily here.

One thing I forgot to mention is the possibility of ingress occurring at the frequency the MoCa band is operating on. This will be from the bands that cell phones operate on. I do not have a chart right now but I do know the up link and down link for the cell phone providers is operating in the MoCa band.

Long term Evolution 4G from Verizon and At&t is operating right around 800Mhz and I am seeing some corrected errors on the channels in that frequency range. The cable TV industry has no equipment to check for leaks at these high frequencies, only at the FCC mandated VHF band. According to some white papers the 4G signal is picked up by the cable boxes and modems and sent up the distribution system to the first active where it is amplified and sent back down to the customers as noise. It is going to be very difficult to detect and isolate where the ingress is occurring. The cell phone industry wants to claim even more of the TV spectrum for cell phone use which is going to cause even more ingress issues at even lower frequencies.
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Old 12-27-2013, 06:18 PM   #771
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I have the exact same cablecard and problem you have. BUT, I finally set the Roamio to 5 tuners, turned on suggestions, and let it do its thing. Has recorded many shows without problems. Several times a day I cycle through the 5 tuners and do not get a V58 error. Give it a try.

I do have a a premier backing up all the shows I really want, but have not needed it.
I have the Cisco with the 1.5.2 3001 firmware and occasional unauthorized errors. I just set my roamio to 5 tuners and will see what happens.
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Old 12-28-2013, 08:28 PM   #772
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Well, I let it ride on five tuners all day today, and still receiving v58 errors on random channels. Today, about 5 channels would not tune on the roamio, but would on the mini's throughout the house. On one mini, seems about 15 in a row would not tune, but would on the roamio.

Does anyone suggest swapping the cablecard out? (I have four of them standing by)
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Old 12-28-2013, 09:43 PM   #773
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Well, I let it ride on five tuners all day today, and still receiving v58 errors on random channels. Today, about 5 channels would not tune on the roamio, but would on the mini's throughout the house. On one mini, seems about 15 in a row would not tune, but would on the roamio.

Does anyone suggest swapping the cablecard out? (I have four of them standing by)
what card and firmware do u have? sorry if u said it recently, i haven't been keeping up with this thread since it's not very active anymore.
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Old 12-29-2013, 12:29 AM   #774
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If you have a CC with firmware ver.152.2401 on it, I'd give that a try with 5 tuners active...
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Old 12-29-2013, 03:40 PM   #775
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what card and firmware do u have? sorry if u said it recently, i haven't been keeping up with this thread since it's not very active anymore.
1.5.2.3001 SA Card PKM800

This post has all my details.
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Old 12-29-2013, 03:40 PM   #776
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Originally Posted by pshivers View Post
If you have a CC with firmware ver.152.2401 on it, I'd give that a try with 5 tuners active...
I had two, but when plugged in they automatically upgraded.
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Old 12-29-2013, 04:35 PM   #777
pshivers
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That sucks, but it is what the cable company is suppose to do. In my case apparently Charter does not automatically upgrade CableCards. I have two Roamio's (Std 4 tuner and the Pro) and am running different firmware on the CC's, 152.2401 and 152.1601.

I think about halfway through this thread there is mention about the 152.3001 FW also being a problem for 6 tuners... TiVo states 152.2801 will work with 6 tuners and the general consensus in this thread is the best solution is for the Cable Companies to upgrade to 153.1101
Wish I could be more help but like me we are at the mercy of our cable providers. The only good news for me is that Charter has me were I can get 5 tuners with no errors....
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Charter CableCard Firmware Updated to PKEY_1.5.3_F.p.1101 All 6 tuners are now Active and Working!
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Old 12-29-2013, 09:55 PM   #778
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jntc View Post
1.5.2.3001 SA Card PKM800

This post has all my details.
Try 4 tuners.

I know according to the original tivo support page article, 1.5.2.2801 was 'good', although we know some users had v58 probs with that, 1.5.2.3001 and 1.5.3.0601.

We know that 1.5.3.1101 is confirmed good 100%. Originally i had a non 6 tuner cap. 1.5.2.1401, but I was okay with 5 tuners. I also remember that people said 1.5.2.2401 was worse and only 4 tuners would work..
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Roamio Pro, wired ethernet
Mini using MOCA (from the Pro)

on Cablevision Raritan Valley system (Central NJ)
w/ Cisco PKM803 CableCARD on firmware 1.5.3.1101

*** 2013 newbie to Tivo ***
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Old 12-30-2013, 12:00 PM   #779
jntc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamNJ View Post
Try 4 tuners.

I know according to the original tivo support page article, 1.5.2.2801 was 'good', although we know some users had v58 probs with that, 1.5.2.3001 and 1.5.3.0601.

We know that 1.5.3.1101 is confirmed good 100%. Originally i had a non 6 tuner cap. 1.5.2.1401, but I was okay with 5 tuners. I also remember that people said 1.5.2.2401 was worse and only 4 tuners would work..
I've tried four, and three, same issues. What's weird and I know works, is I can set each of the six tuners to watch different encrypted (0x02 CCI) channels and flip between all six with 'live tv' button, and all six work. However, when randomly changing channels, I'll get the v58 error on random channels, tuning up and down and back, it will magically come in. Also, with a mini sitting right next to the roamio, I can tune to a channel and get v58 error, but on the mini (or viceversa) it comes in fine. Sometimes I get big blocks of channels (10-20) that will show v58, then tuning back to them, some are good, some are not.

It really is a hit or miss type thing. I don't think it's the lack of six tuner support on the cable card. The Comcast X1 devices seem to not have these issues with channels, and they support up to 8 tuners
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Old 12-30-2013, 12:40 PM   #780
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I'm assuming (which is a bad thing) that being able to view 6 encrypted channels on the 6 tuners indicates that 6 tuners are supported.

So,

1) Could the v58 issues be firmware 'bugs' (have to wait for new firmware - good luck with that)

2) Could the cablecard be bad?

3) Could this be a TIVO issue with tuning the card properly

(NOTE: I'm not using a TA or SDV)
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