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Old 12-03-2013, 12:33 PM   #31
pshivers
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Originally Posted by barrett14 View Post
Is it possible to buy an updated cable card on your own or is the only option to wait for Charter? How will you know when Charter releases the new firmware?

p.s. - I reduced my tuners from 6 to 5 but its still doing it. I have not tried 4 tuners yet.
Make sure you restart your Tivo Box after changing the number of active tuners. The change will not work properly without a restart.

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You have to wait for charter (or bother them) for them to get on the ball. At least one person here has bought a card off ebay, but they are not generally available and more importantly your cable co probably won't allow/install it on it's network.
Even if you do get a "Aftermarket" CableCard to work, once the Cable company sees it on their network they will automatically install the Firmware they are using, in this case the Firmware would be downgraded.

I have not seen it yet, but it is my understanding you will see a message on your Tivo the CableCard is being updated. Of course if this process occurs and finished while your asleep you may never know the update has occurred. You can go into Setting and view what Firmware release you have at anytime.
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Old 12-03-2013, 02:38 PM   #32
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Well I hooked up the new Tivo that they sent me... Immediately had V53 and V58 errors again. I switched the numbers of tuners to 4 and now its working... We will see if it stays that way.

I don't know why Tivo wasn't prepared for the fact that Charter doesn't have a 6 tuner cable card? Not once did Tivo tech support say that this could have been the issue.
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Old 12-03-2013, 04:28 PM   #33
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Well I hooked up the new Tivo that they sent me... Immediately had V53 and V58 errors again. I switched the numbers of tuners to 4 and now its working... We will see if it stays that way.

I don't know why Tivo wasn't prepared for the fact that Charter doesn't have a 6 tuner cable card? Not once did Tivo tech support say that this could have been the issue.
The cablecard is multistream and can decode 6 channels at the same time. The problem is the firmware that Charter supplies is not the latest and does not work properly. This is not a Tivo issue. Tivo does supply a temp workaround by at least allowing you to disable the tuners.
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Old 12-03-2013, 04:39 PM   #34
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The cablecard is multistream and can decode 6 channels at the same time. The problem is the firmware that Charter supplies is not the latest and does not work properly. This is not a Tivo issue. Tivo does supply a temp workaround by at least allowing you to disable the tuners.
I'm pretty sure that was built into them the day they started selling them.

Then when it became clear it was necessary, they posted the remote sequences to use that "workaround".

TiVo was likely hoping for the best, but expecting the worst. Good thing they had that contingency plan in place.

The time between first reports of the problem, and the posting of the sequence codes was too close for it to not already be in the software, IMHO.
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Old 12-03-2013, 04:58 PM   #35
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The cablecard is multistream and can decode 6 channels at the same time. The problem is the firmware that Charter supplies is not the latest and does not work properly. This is not a Tivo issue. Tivo does supply a temp workaround by at least allowing you to disable the tuners.
I have been dealing with these V53 and V58 errors since I bought this thing on the day it came out. After calling Tivo numerous times, they kept blaming it on the signal strength... It took me digging through these forums to figure out that my cable card couldn't handle 6 tuners. Tivo should have tried this fix with me when I called them.
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Old 12-24-2013, 11:29 PM   #36
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Is there a way to definitively confirm whether or not the cablecard/company can support 6 tuners?

I've had 5 shows recording and able to switch live tv channels with no problems, indicating that I can do 6 tuners.

However, I'm plague with random, but frequent (~60%) v58 errors when changing channels.

I can switch up and down a few channels, and 'sometimes' the v58 channel(s) will tune right in. It's on both premier, regular, HD and non-HD channels across the board.

I'm just about ready to box all this up (roamio plus and 3 minis) and go back to the dreaded comcast dvr boxes. (At least I could reliably tune a channel)


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Old 12-25-2013, 01:42 AM   #37
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Is there a way to definitively confirm whether or not the cablecard/company can support 6 tuners?

I've had 5 shows recording and able to switch live tv channels with no problems, indicating that I can do 6 tuners.

However, I'm plague with random, but frequent (~60%) v58 errors when changing channels.

I can switch up and down a few channels, and 'sometimes' the v58 channel(s) will tune right in. It's on both premier, regular, HD and non-HD channels across the board.

I'm just about ready to box all this up (roamio plus and 3 minis) and go back to the dreaded comcast dvr boxes. (At least I could reliably tune a channel)

Has reducing tuner count helped out at all? If so, I'd think that would confirmed it. I also have v58 issues. However, for me, it pops up after being on a channel for a while.
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Old 12-25-2013, 09:57 AM   #38
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V58 error this morning trying to watch A Christmas Story on TBS !!

Can't wait for the C133 error to show up later

Merry Christmas Tivo !
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Old 12-25-2013, 01:11 PM   #39
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Has reducing tuner count helped out at all? If so, I'd think that would confirmed it. I also have v58 issues. However, for me, it pops up after being on a channel for a while.
No reducing the tuners does not help at all. I'd say a good 60-70% of the time, I get v58's on various channels.

I've got to say, I'm about fed up with all of this. As much as I hate Comcast DVR's (especially the old SA's we're stuck with in our county) I never had a tuning problem with them.
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Old 12-25-2013, 04:07 PM   #40
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No reducing the tuners does not help at all. I'd say a good 60-70% of the time, I get v58's on various channels. I've got to say, I'm about fed up with all of this. As much as I hate Comcast DVR's (especially the old SA's we're stuck with in our county) I never had a tuning problem with them.
Yep never had a tuning problem with a SA box .

It's a shame they are awful otherwise
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Old 12-25-2013, 04:51 PM   #41
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DirecTV Genies are good, as well as Dish Hoppers/Joeys. Better than cable DVRs but not quite a TiVo (when they're working properly).
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Old 12-25-2013, 09:48 PM   #42
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Update on my situation: I stopped getting V53 and V58 errors after I cut it down to 4 tuners. (Using Charter)

Everything is working perfectly (except having 4 tuners instead of 6 but that doesn't really bother me.
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Old 12-25-2013, 10:56 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by barrett14 View Post
Update on my situation: I stopped getting V53 and V58 errors after I cut it down to 4 tuners. (Using Charter)

Everything is working perfectly (except having 4 tuners instead of 6 but that doesn't really bother me.
What's Cisco firmware version they have you on?
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Old 12-27-2013, 07:19 AM   #44
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V58 error this morning trying to watch A Christmas Story on TBS !!

Can't wait for the C133 error to show up later

Merry Christmas Tivo !
LOL, I was thinking the exact same thing! It's bad when Tivo gets this predictable.
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Old 12-27-2013, 07:22 AM   #45
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OK so let me get this straight. If I downgrade my Pro to a basic (yes I know the differences and its ok), I won't get anymore V58 errors because that's what I'm getting due to not being able to tune the extra 2 tuners on the plus/pro because of my crappy Cisco TA with old firmware. I will however still get the occasional V53 tuning error where it just fails to tune, right? I think I got that right, but now I'm just so damned confused I don't know which way is up anymore!
If my memory is correct, I believe Tivo Marget posted codes on how to disable the number of Tuners your Tivo will use. This should stop the error messages you are receiving. I say should because you never know with Tivo.

You should be able to use the codes listed below:

Settings --> Channels --> Channel List

88633 = use 3 tuners
88634 = use 4 tuners
88635 = use 5 tuners
88636 = use 6 tuners

Reboot when done setting # of tuners

Last edited by mburnno : 12-27-2013 at 07:27 AM.
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Old 12-27-2013, 02:11 PM   #46
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If my memory is correct, I believe Tivo Marget posted codes on how to disable the number of Tuners your Tivo will use. This should stop the error messages you are receiving. I say should because you never know with Tivo.

You should be able to use the codes listed below:

Settings --> Channels --> Channel List

88633 = use 3 tuners
88634 = use 4 tuners
88635 = use 5 tuners
88636 = use 6 tuners

Reboot when done setting # of tuners
Thanks for the suggestion, but I did that the day it was posted, months ago. The whole point of me starting this thread was questioning why I should pay so much for a six tuner Cadillac when all it was capable of was being a 4-5 tuner Kia. Last I checked I purchased a six tuner DVR, so why should I not expect to at least get what I paid for? (FYI, the latest firmware appears to have fixed a lot of the mis-tunes, time will tell)
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Old 12-30-2013, 03:43 PM   #47
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Thanks for the suggestion, but I did that the day it was posted, months ago. The whole point of me starting this thread was questioning why I should pay so much for a six tuner Cadillac when all it was capable of was being a 4-5 tuner Kia. Last I checked I purchased a six tuner DVR, so why should I not expect to at least get what I paid for? (FYI, the latest firmware appears to have fixed a lot of the mis-tunes, time will tell)
Dave - Have you noticed any pattern getting the V58 error? I'm also running 1.5.3 0601 and its almost silly how predictable its gotten. I get V58 literally every ~56 mins on tuner 5. I can set a clock to it. I just started watching tuner 6 to see if it occurs there too.
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Old 12-30-2013, 03:54 PM   #48
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Dave - Have you noticed any pattern getting the V58 error? I'm also running 1.5.3 0601 and its almost silly how predictable its gotten. I get V58 literally every ~56 mins on tuner 5. I can set a clock to it. I just started watching tuner 6 to see if it occurs there too.
While I'm not Dave, and I only have a 4-tuner base Roamios, I could also set a clock to all three of them seemingly "timing-out" into an automatic state of requiring me to manually re-acquire the channel.

I think it could be by design, and perhaps a cross-platform cause of additional problems for those with 6-tuner models.

I keep up to date with all the platforms' issues, as best I can.
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Old 12-30-2013, 04:03 PM   #49
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While I'm not Dave, and I only have a 4-tuner base Roamios, I could also set a clock to all three of them seemingly "timing-out" into an automatic state of requiring me to manually re-acquire the channel.

I think it could be by design, and perhaps a cross-platform cause of additional problems for those with 6-tuner models.

I keep up to date with all the platforms' issues, as best I can.
FWIW, I haven't had to re-tune when getting this time-out. Usually video freezes (doesn't effect audio) and then recovers. I wonder if its re-authorizing or performing a CP key rotation on a periodic basis.
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Old 12-30-2013, 05:17 PM   #50
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FWIW, I haven't had to re-tune when getting this time-out. Usually video freezes (doesn't effect audio) and then recovers. I wonder if its re-authorizing or performing a CP key rotation on a periodic basis.
I swear I read somewhere that SDV is designed to de-authorize idle tuners in order to make SDV work as designed (or keep it working as designed). It seems to make some sense, that if many multi-tuner devices were allowed to sit idly on SDV frequencies, the whole premise of SDV RF networking could become overloaded (maybe?)...

My TA and, more easily, kmttg can tell me what state my tuners and DVRs are in (idle, foreground, background, live buffering, recording, standby, etc.), which also seems to give an appearance of there being a means, and possibly a demand, for knowing if devices actually need-to-be authorized after a period of time.

This kind of makes the "What To Watch Now" feature less useful. I've also noticed an absence of a Live TV buffer on SDV channels that I leave idle, whether foreground, or background. If I press Pause or Play on such a buffer-less, but displaying (still authorized, at least somewhat) channel, it begins buffering at the moment I press the buttons, but does not backfill the buffer.

This development didn't happen until the last month, or so (that I've noticed). As long as scheduled recordings are able to re-acquire/re-authorize a channel that's gone "timeout", I guess I can live with it.

Last edited by nooneuknow : 12-30-2013 at 05:25 PM.
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Old 12-30-2013, 07:13 PM   #51
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I swear I read somewhere that SDV is designed to de-authorize idle tuners in order to make SDV work as designed (or keep it working as designed). It seems to make some sense, that if many multi-tuner devices were allowed to sit idly on SDV frequencies, the whole premise of SDV RF networking could become overloaded (maybe?)...

My TA and, more easily, kmttg can tell me what state my tuners and DVRs are in (idle, foreground, background, live buffering, recording, standby, etc.), which also seems to give an appearance of there being a means, and possibly a demand, for knowing if devices actually need-to-be authorized after a period of time.
Recently I noticed that SDV channels don't go idle / de-auth unless they're the foreground tuner. If the SDV channel is in the background, it seems to stay active and buffering. I haven't been tracking the SDV states; I'll need to get kmttg setup to tell me this stuff to make it easier to correlate.

Quote:
This kind of makes the "What To Watch Now" feature less useful. I've also noticed an absence of a Live TV buffer on SDV channels that I leave idle, whether foreground, or background. If I press Pause or Play on such a buffer-less, but displaying (still authorized, at least somewhat) channel, it begins buffering at the moment I press the buttons, but does not backfill the buffer.

This development didn't happen until the last month, or so (that I've noticed). As long as scheduled recordings are able to re-acquire/re-authorize a channel that's gone "timeout", I guess I can live with it.
I've noticed this too for SDV channels. The live buffer doesn't accumulate properly after getting the "press SELECT to tune it again" screen message. Once you get this message, Tivo's buffer is reset / erased under these conditions :
1) Pressing SELECT to tune again (as expected)
2) Pressing Tivo button with Preview enabled in the Discovery Bar
3) Pressing Live button to exit Tivo Central (or any menus) to go back to watching live t.v.
For some reason, after the channel is de-authorized, Tivo now gets into a weird state on that tuner. Any time the video is re-rendered, the buffer gets zapped out. From what I found, the only time this doesn't happen is pressing Guide / then Zoom to exit. The only way to reset the tuner so your buffer isn't zapped by pressing Tivo or Live buttons is to change channels. By looking at the DVR diagnostics, pressing Live or Tivo buttons, is causing the channel to tune again, it shows that both the seconds since tune and resolution time are both reset. If this tuner happens to be recording at the time, and you press the Tivo button, it will stop the recording causing it to fail.

Also, one major annoyance, the popup to "press SELECT" to re-acquire goes away when pressing various other buttons. Then if you press clear, your left with a blank screen waiting for the popup to come back to re-tune. And if you don't wait for the "press SELECT" popup, and go ahead and press the select button, it brings up the mini guide. Doh! frustrating.
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Old 12-30-2013, 07:32 PM   #52
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Doh! frustrating.
I really can't add too much more at this point. Except, yeah, more frustrating than the level of frustration before the timeout period started happening (suspiciously close to the same time I moved cablecards around and called to get them paired-up properly again)...

The trouble with knowing exactly what is going of with background channels, is they are in the background. Bringing them to the foreground makes them no longer in the background, obviously...

kmttg reports the "what's on" status as "loopset", when I let the foreground tuner idle-timeout and lose its buffer.
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Old 12-30-2013, 07:59 PM   #53
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kmttg reports the "what's on" status as "loopset", when I let the foreground tuner idle-timeout and lose its buffer.
Do you have to enable suggestions to get the "what's on" to record? Sorry to hijack
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Old 12-30-2013, 08:29 PM   #54
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Do you have to enable suggestions to get the "what's on" to record? Sorry to hijack
Suggestions have never been enabled of any TiVo I have every owned.

"What's On" is just an entry for what is being sent to the TV screen in kmttg.
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Old 12-31-2013, 04:48 AM   #55
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Dave - Have you noticed any pattern getting the V58 error? I'm also running 1.5.3 0601 and its almost silly how predictable its gotten. I get V58 literally every ~56 mins on tuner 5. I can set a clock to it. I just started watching tuner 6 to see if it occurs there too.
Not that I'm aware of, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. When I actually do have the time to test it, I usually just set 5 SDV HD channels to record and then channel surf with the remaining tuner, where occasionally I'd see a channel that fails to tune. I have to admit though, the latest FW seems to have made a big improvement so far, although I haven't had time to test rigorously yet.
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Old 12-31-2013, 11:08 AM   #56
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Not that I'm aware of, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. When I actually do have the time to test it, I usually just set 5 SDV HD channels to record and then channel surf with the remaining tuner, where occasionally I'd see a channel that fails to tune. I have to admit though, the latest FW seems to have made a big improvement so far, although I haven't had time to test rigorously yet.
Hate to say it HarperVision, it seems like you have joined the crowd of Tivo users who have experienced nothing but frustration including myself. As much as I like Tivo when it is working properly, I hate it even more than the Cable DVR when it doesn't. There are times that I wish I could throw this damn DVR out the window or kick the design team in the ass. But that wouldn't really solve anything, plus I would more than likely get charged with a felon and its not worth that.
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Old 12-31-2013, 12:13 PM   #57
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Hate to say it HarperVision, it seems like you have joined the crowd of Tivo users who have experienced nothing but frustration including myself. As much as I like Tivo when it is working properly, I hate it even more than the Cable DVR when it doesn't. There are times that I wish I could throw this damn DVR out the window or kick the design team in the ass. But that wouldn't really solve anything, plus I would more than likely get charged with a felon and its not worth that.
Like I said, the latest FW was a big improvement for me, and I don't recall having hardly any Tuning errors in normal viewing scenarios now. I do have that feeling like "why did I bother, I should've just stayed with DirecTV" though. I think it's because of the money invested. It's better than dtv, but doesn't seem THAT much better or worth all the hassles, if you catch my drift.
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Old 12-31-2013, 12:30 PM   #58
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Like I said, the latest FW was a big improvement for me, and I don't recall having hardly any Tuning errors in normal viewing scenarios now.
Have you had any V58 errors since 20.3.8? I am on 20.3.7 still and asked to hang back since both a TA and CableCARD fw update was anticipated on my cable. My SDV has been flawless since, but I'm still waiting for the CC update and haven't heard anything about a new time frame. I'm starting to think that I should request the 20.3.8 and get current.
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Old 12-31-2013, 05:11 PM   #59
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Have you had any V58 errors since 20.3.8? I am on 20.3.7 still and asked to hang back since both a TA and CableCARD fw update was anticipated on my cable. My SDV has been flawless since, but I'm still waiting for the CC update and haven't heard anything about a new time frame. I'm starting to think that I should request the 20.3.8 and get current.
20.3.8 for as long as it's been available, still getting them (V58 through V52 and other ones that either don't have a Vxx error number, or there's no displayed error, but there should be.)

Three base Roamios, all w/cablecards and TAs.

Cisco STA1520 TA, PKM80x cablecards, on "current" firmware (not the newest firmware versions being tested in small regions, which are not being officially rolled-out just yet). Cox Cable Market in NV.

Last edited by nooneuknow : 12-31-2013 at 05:37 PM.
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Old 12-31-2013, 09:47 PM   #60
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20.3.8 for as long as it's been available, still getting them (V58 through V52 and other ones that either don't have a Vxx error number, or there's no displayed error, but there should be.)

Three base Roamios, all w/cablecards and TAs.

Cisco STA1520 TA, PKM80x cablecards, on "current" firmware (not the newest firmware versions being tested in small regions, which are not being officially rolled-out just yet). Cox Cable Market in NV.
Ugh. V58 alone is driving me nuts and I'm too stubborn to reduce tuner count.

On a better note, I would recommend asking for the new TA FW : STA1.0.0_1520_LF_F.1901.

Many of the random issues that had no way to reliably reproduce seem to be MUCH better.

I've not seen these since the BHN TA FW update on 12/13/2013 (and running 20.3.7) :
  1. Black screen when changing channels
  2. Missed recordings due to no signal
  3. V52 / V53 signal errors
  4. Error where channel tunes, but then a unavailable popup after a few seconds
  5. Repeated "unavailable" errors when pressing SELECT to re-acquire
I'm sure 20.3.8 reduces the occurrences for some of these, but not sure about all the other bizarre stuff that was going on with the TA.
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