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Old 12-13-2013, 07:11 AM   #1
jntc
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Mini Live TV skipping/pausing/audio

Can anyone post some optimal network status values for moca for the mini?

I'm getting occasional stuttering, audio sync, 'skipping' problems on my mini's connected via moca.

I know it's not the channels, cause watching them on the Roamio, there have been zero issues.

I have values (pulling from memory here since I'm at work) of ~260 for PHY Tx and Rx and -10 to -16 on Tx Pwr and .450ish on Rx Pwr

I have zero on error packets.

I have two mini's and both are experiencing the same issues. Haven't tested watching recorded shows yet. (They are brand new) but these issues have surely made the family angry that I ripped out the comcast boxes.
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Old 12-13-2013, 12:14 PM   #2
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Frustration level growing on the homefront. One of the most watched mini's is stuttering very frequently. The signals are as posted above with zero errors.

On the Roamio, there doesn't seem to be any indication of signal for the moca connection it's providing.

BTW: Tivo support was no help, saying change the HDMI cable (just changed as well to 1.4a 15ghz rated cables) / try ethernet (can't do this easily at all) / check splitters (There is only one 5-way at the entry point, it's a 1000+mhz rated leviton panel splitting out to home-runs for each room, of which all five are in use - one going to cable modem) (House is all RG6 with compression terminations - as well as jumpers from wall to devices)
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Old 12-13-2013, 11:45 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by jntc View Post
Frustration level growing on the homefront. One of the most watched mini's is stuttering very frequently. The signals are as posted above with zero errors.

On the Roamio, there doesn't seem to be any indication of signal for the moca connection it's providing.
I have a Roamio + that has a bridge to my RJ45 and MoCA connection, and under network status it shows the MoCA down, but it is not down if I look at another TiVo it shows the MoCA signal speed for all connections including the bridged Roamio +, this happened after the last update (not the one today)
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Old 12-14-2013, 11:04 AM   #4
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Well I'm am boxing up the roamio, and the tivo minis (I have 4 total, 2 have been set up) and taking it all back.

I can't have this happening, and as much as I despise the comcast boxes, they worked without stuttering, skipping, c133, v53, v58 and blue circles of death every 15 minutes of the day.

I've got to say, that I'm extremely disappointed as Tivo's history says I shouldn't be experiencing these issues. I really wish that this setup would have worked!

It's been an interesting two weeks on these forums, but enough is enough.

One nice thing, the kids quit watching TV now - they say it's too 'glitchy'
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Old 12-14-2013, 09:23 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by jntc View Post
Well I'm am boxing up the roamio, and the tivo minis (I have 4 total, 2 have been set up) and taking it all back.

I can't have this happening, and as much as I despise the comcast boxes, they worked without stuttering, skipping, c133, v53, v58 and blue circles of death every 15 minutes of the day.

I've got to say, that I'm extremely disappointed as Tivo's history says I shouldn't be experiencing these issues. I really wish that this setup would have worked!

It's been an interesting two weeks on these forums, but enough is enough.

One nice thing, the kids quit watching TV now - they say it's too 'glitchy'
Something must be wrong with your network because I have the same setup and don't have any of these issues.
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Old 12-15-2013, 05:05 AM   #6
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I'd say the primary culprit would be the splitter/panel... If it literally says "1000+ MHz" I'd try swapping it with a more robust splitter.

Or first try some different moca channels.

But, the return might already be done.
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Old 12-15-2013, 09:40 AM   #7
jntc
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Originally Posted by BigJimOutlaw View Post
I'd say the primary culprit would be the splitter/panel... If it literally says "1000+ MHz" I'd try swapping it with a more robust splitter.

Or first try some different moca channels.

But, the return might already be done.
I've ordered a new splitter (2400mhz), so I'll try replacing that.

I'll also try some different moca channels as well.

I really hope to get this going, as it seems to be the perfect solution for my household.

Luckily the weather was crappy yesterday, so I had a chance to cool off a bit.

Thanks for the suggestions!
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Old 12-15-2013, 11:18 AM   #8
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One of my mini's via moca has a tx pwr of -4

the other two are -10 to -16

Does anyone know what is optimal?
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Old 12-15-2013, 12:03 PM   #9
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Something must be wrong with your network because I have the same setup and don't have any of these issues.
+1 on this. I have a Roamio Plus and 2 minis and have zero issues. I am however setup through ethernet and not MOCA. I am using Cablevision Ultra 101 package and do not have any issues with bandwith (I saw in the Roamio forum that you mentioned you didn't want to hook up this way because you were afraid of it degrading bandwith). Trust me there are tons of things on my network including video game systems, 4 iphones, 3 macs, appleTV, TiVo's etc. Maybe hardwired (if possible) will help with your issues?
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Old 12-15-2013, 05:06 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jntc View Post
One of my mini's via moca has a tx pwr of -4

the other two are -10 to -16

Does anyone know what is optimal?
I don't know what's optimal, but I don't think I have any readings in the negatives (from memory). Not sure though.

The 2400Mhz splitter sounds good. Hopefully helps if switching moca channels doesn't.

You might also consider a moca POE filter. This will help keep the moca signal strong by mirroring it back into your house without escaping. Good for security as well. But might not be necessary if the new splitter works.

It really does all work nicely, when it actually works.

Slightly off topic, but the more outputs you have on a splitter, the more you risk your internet signal getting weak. If you have any issues with the internet crapping out, you might consider a 3-way splitter first. With one leg going to the cable modem, one leg going to your primary Roamio, and the third leg going to a 4-way (or whatever) splitter that manages all of your TVs with the Minis. Just something to keep in mind if your modem or Roamio ever have signal issues.

Last edited by BigJimOutlaw : 12-15-2013 at 05:49 PM.
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Old 12-15-2013, 06:49 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by BigJimOutlaw View Post
I don't know what's optimal, but I don't think I have any readings in the negatives (from memory). Not sure though.

The 2400Mhz splitter sounds good. Hopefully helps if switching moca channels doesn't.

You might also consider a moca POE filter. This will help keep the moca signal strong by mirroring it back into your house without escaping. Good for security as well. But might not be necessary if the new splitter works.

It really does all work nicely, when it actually works.

Slightly off topic, but the more outputs you have on a splitter, the more you risk your internet signal getting weak. If you have any issues with the internet crapping out, you might consider a 3-way splitter first. With one leg going to the cable modem, one leg going to your primary Roamio, and the third leg going to a 4-way (or whatever) splitter that manages all of your TVs with the Minis. Just something to keep in mind if your modem or Roamio ever have signal issues.
I do have the main incoming cable split (one to cable modem, one to 5-way)

I've ordered a new 2400mhz 5-way, also I have two cables with barrell connectors (were run too short to cabinet) that are probably cheapies, so I also ordered some 3ghz barrells as well (also to replace the faceplate barrells as well) and the POE in place.

So, with this being done, I hope to correct any coax issues.

If I still experience the hiccups, I'll give the 'ole ethernet a try.

I do thank everyone for their input!

Last edited by jntc : 12-15-2013 at 07:21 PM.
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Old 12-16-2013, 09:21 PM   #12
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Tivo Mini Video Freezing / V87 Messages

I am also having problems with the Mini. I have it connected via MoCA to a Roamio Plus. The Roamio is working fine. The Mini usually works but sometimes Live TV freezes for about 1-2 seconds and then comes back automatically, and other times I get a V87 message (I then go to TiVo central and back to Live TV and it works ok).

I called TiVo tech support and they said the only thing they recommend is installing a POE filter on my incoming cable connection. I have Verizon Fios and I have heard multiple times (and also heard this from Tivo sales support as well) that it is NOT needed for Fios. I actually had one shipped to me and it killed my Internet connection completely, even after it was removed - I had to have Verizon remotely power-cycle my entire network remotely.

I am willing to give the POE filter another try. Maybe if I leave it on there and have Verizion reboot the system with it installed, perhaps it will work.

I would like to confirm it's worth me spending the time to do this, or if anyone else has any other ideas. Thanks in advance for your help.
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Old 12-16-2013, 11:54 PM   #13
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The POE filter is unnecessary with Fios. The moca signal can't escape. The filter is a good idea for a normal cable setup, but not needed there.

First thing I would check are your splitters between the two boxes. Make sure they're adequate. At least 1000MHz but ideally higher (1500 or higher would be great). They might be iffy if they're old too.
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Old 12-17-2013, 10:47 AM   #14
jntc
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@villager-li,

Does your stuttering happen on any specific channels? I've noticed that mine do more so than others.

Can you post what your moca network status numbers for PHY TX and RX as well as PWR TX and RX and SNR values?

There is definitely something happening here, as I don't see these stutters on the Roamio on the channels I'm having issues with. (I strategically watched both of them at the same time, one on Roamio, one on Mini, and the Mini was dropping out)

Additionally, this was with only a single RG6 coax between the Roamio and the Mini.


My network status looks great, so this is puzzling.
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Old 12-17-2013, 11:26 AM   #15
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@villager-li,

Does your stuttering happen on any specific channels? I've noticed that mine do more so than others.

Can you post what your moca network status numbers for PHY TX and RX as well as PWR TX and RX and SNR values?

There is definitely something happening here, as I don't see these stutters on the Roamio on the channels I'm having issues with. (I strategically watched both of them at the same time, one on Roamio, one on Mini, and the Mini was dropping out)

Additionally, this was with only a single RG6 coax between the Roamio and the Mini.


My network status looks great, so this is puzzling.
My MoCA network is made up of home runs from each outlet to a 8 way (two way) amp (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 where the cable comes in underground. From my Mini to the amp there must be 80 feet, than back to the TP4 that another 60 feet from the amp so that a total of 140 feet and I get over 200 on both TX and RX, and have no problems. I am using a Roamio + as the bridge to the network VIA a RJ45 jack, and that Roamio + is about 40 feet from the amp.
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Old 12-17-2013, 03:31 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by jntc View Post
@villager-li,

Does your stuttering happen on any specific channels? I've noticed that mine do more so than others.

Can you post what your moca network status numbers for PHY TX and RX as well as PWR TX and RX and SNR values?

There is definitely something happening here, as I don't see these stutters on the Roamio on the channels I'm having issues with. (I strategically watched both of them at the same time, one on Roamio, one on Mini, and the Mini was dropping out)

Additionally, this was with only a single RG6 coax between the Roamio and the Mini.


My network status looks great, so this is puzzling.
For curiosity's sake, do you happen to know if your cable service uses a 860MHz or 1000MHz system? Just wondering, because if the TV signals go close to 1GHz, the current splitter/panel might not be giving the moca network enough headroom to use a higher frequency. Probably has nothing to do with it, I'm just throwing something at the wall. In any event, I hope the new splitter helps either way.
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Old 12-17-2013, 08:31 PM   #17
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For curiosity's sake, do you happen to know if your cable service uses a 860MHz or 1000MHz system? Just wondering, because if the TV signals go close to 1GHz, the current splitter/panel might not be giving the moca network enough headroom to use a higher frequency. Probably has nothing to do with it, I'm just throwing something at the wall. In any event, I hope the new splitter helps either way.


Not sure about the cable freq. But I know that the splitter I have is rated at 1000mhz. I also have some cheapo builder grade faceplates with very cheap bullet couplers that I'll be replacing as well. Stuff should be here by end of week!

I'm on Comcast in Harford County Maryland FWIW.
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Old 12-17-2013, 09:22 PM   #18
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Updated (with bad news):

Thank you all for the responses on this. I have been fooling around with my setup. I thought I found the answer but doing all the below did not help.

I had a 1000mhz 3-way splitter in the basement feeding the following:

1. the -3.5db connection feeds my Living Room (where it connects to yet another 2-way splitter going to my TiVo Roamio and my FIOS Modem)
2. one of the -7db connections feeds the bedroom with the TiVo Mini
3. the other -7db connection feeds a different bedroom with nothing currently connected to it

I had a 2.4ghz 2 way splitter handy, so I swapped out this 3-way splitter with it and only reconnected connections 1 and 2 above. This should boost the signal to the Mini since now I'm using a -3.5db connection instead of a -7db connection. Not sure what the increase in Ghz does (maybe someone here can explain it).

Unfortunately the freezing keeps happening (about 4 times so far in 1 hour). It usually corrects itself, but sometimes we have to change the channel for it to unfreeze.

In response to the previous question about my MoCA stats, here's the info - I'm really interested in what all this stuff means, if anyone knows....

TX PHY Rate - 264
RX PHY Rate - 272
TX Power Estimate - 0.00
RX Power Estimate - 0.429

At this point, the only thing I can think of doing is swapping out the splitter where I have the cable line coming into my home. It's using a new 1000Mhz 3-way splitter from Extreme Broadband - I could swap it with a 2+ Ghz one...not sure if it's going to make a difference.

I guess as a last resort I can attempt to wire the bedroom with Ethernet, and bypass MoCA altogether...

Last edited by villager-li : 12-17-2013 at 09:59 PM.
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Old 12-17-2013, 09:52 PM   #19
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Not sure what the increase in Ghz does (maybe someone here can explain it).

So far no freezing since making the change...we'll see how it goes.
Hope it works out for ya. Moca operates at a frequency higher than the TV signals to avoid interference with TV, internet, phone, etc. Moca goes anywhere up to 1500MHz. A 1000 MHz splitter usually works fine, but sometimes not. So trying a splitter with a higher frequency is one of the simpler/cheaper things to try if there is a questionable moca signal.

You can also try changing the moca channel manually (channel = frequency) on the primary moca device and see if that helps the situation any. But the splitter is usually the main culprit.

Last edited by BigJimOutlaw : 12-17-2013 at 10:10 PM.
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Old 12-17-2013, 10:06 PM   #20
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Hey Jim, thanks....I actually updated my post and reported that the problem is still occurring. I may just have my local AV store come and run an ethernet cable to the bedroom, and stop all this MoCA BS once and for all. Before I do that, I would bring the Mini down to my living room and connect it directly to the ethernet switch to test it out. And if that doesn't work, then maybe just return it.
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Old 12-17-2013, 10:13 PM   #21
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Is your secondary splitter on leg #1 also a higher frequency?

Last edited by BigJimOutlaw : 12-17-2013 at 10:19 PM.
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Old 12-17-2013, 10:31 PM   #22
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Yes, the splitter on leg #1 is a 2 GHz Monster 2-way splitter (this one was installed by the local AV store when I got my home theater set up). 1 connection goes to the Roamio, the other goes to the FIOS cable modem.

I do have a 1000mhz 3-way splitter from Extreme Broadband right where the cable line enters the house in my Family Room. On this splitter, I have the two -7db connections terminating locally into an older TiVo Premiere and an Actiontec MoCA bridge (where I have ethernet going to this same TiVo and a PS3). The -3.5db connection goes to the basement where it enters the 2-way 2.4 ghz splitter I just installed that connects to the Living Room (Leg 1) and the Bedroom with the Mini (Leg 2).

So complicated right? :-)
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Old 12-20-2013, 11:32 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by villager-li View Post
TX PHY Rate - 264
RX PHY Rate - 272
TX Power Estimate - 0.00
RX Power Estimate - 0.429
...
My readings are lower than yours and I have not had any problems on streaming from Mini to any TiVo or live TV on the Mini, or TiVo to TiVo streaming. You may have some outside interference on your cable system. You could try a cable ground isolator like this http://www.amazon.com/Viewsonics-VSI...round+isolator

Good luck.
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Old 12-20-2013, 05:46 PM   #24
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I put on the POE today, and replaced the barrells (splitter hasn't arrived yet)

My MOCA readings changed quite a bit on the TX PWR to -21 to -23 (was -10 and -16)

My PHYs are around 280 each and RX power stayed the same at 0.4ish

I'm wondering if this is good or bad???
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Old 12-21-2013, 12:16 AM   #25
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I put on the POE today, and replaced the barrells (splitter hasn't arrived yet)

My MOCA readings changed quite a bit on the TX PWR to -21 to -23 (was -10 and -16)

My PHYs are around 280 each and RX power stayed the same at 0.4ish

I'm wondering if this is good or bad???
The power part I do not understand, I wish somebody could explain it to us, PHY over 150 will work great (a friend that has a big home I set up with a Roamio+ and 5 Minis, the TX power on some Minis are as low as 130 and the system works great, in my home I am getting in the mid to low 200s on all units except on the Roamio that is bridged to the internet/MoCA, that unit for some reason reads that the MoCA is down, but it not, or my system could not work.
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Old 12-21-2013, 03:57 PM   #26
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The power part I do not understand, I wish somebody could explain it to us, PHY over 150 will work great (a friend that has a big home I set up with a Roamio+ and 5 Minis, the TX power on some Minis are as low as 130 and the system works great, in my home I am getting in the mid to low 200s on all units except on the Roamio that is bridged to the internet/MoCA, that unit for some reason reads that the MoCA is down, but it not, or my system could not work.
My Roamio is displaying moca status as 'down' too, just as you say.
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Old 12-21-2013, 05:36 PM   #27
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My Roamio is displaying moca status as 'down' too, just as you say.
I guess I will call TiVo to report this problem as it is just not my system
Thanks for your reply
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Old 12-21-2013, 07:46 PM   #28
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I reported it on a service call I had with them. They said, oh yea, it doesn't display on the roamio's... I asked how we were supposed to see the signals, they said 'from the mini' but I guess more that report it, maybe they'll take a look.

Put my new 8way 2400mhz splitter on today. So, we'll see how things go. PWR sig's are back to around -11 again with the new splitter.
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Old 12-22-2013, 12:23 PM   #29
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Mini Live TV skipping/pausing/audio

I've had the same issue with my premier and mini since the updates. Premier shows link down but mini shows great quality. Using Moca
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Old 12-22-2013, 03:41 PM   #30
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Here's an update on my situation. Instead of using MoCA on the Mini, where I was having problems, I connected my Mini temporarily to my cable modem (with built in 4 port switch) via ethernet. My Roamio is on the same router as well. I continued to have the freezing and V87 errors. I then called Tivo again. They said they found similar reported issues in some sort of engineering trend tracker and that they submitted my info to engineering and they were confident a fix would be developed and pushed to my Mini within a week or so. Tivo actually told me - stop troubleshooting your home network, it looks fine. They said if the problem persists after 2 weeks, call them back and they'll probably swap out the Mini. So we will see what happens - it's still no good at this time.

And now, I am having another issue...I had a Tivo Stream for a long time and it worked just fine with my Premiere. Now the Roamio has a built in Stream. So today I tried to watch some shows on my iPad using the Roamio and it's ALSO freezing like the Mini (although on the iPad, it just freezes and does not recover).

Now I am wondering if the problem is not the Mini, but the Roamio itself. Oh yeah, and on the Roamio, I get frequent C133 errors that fix themselves within 1 second or so.

I'm getting so frustrated at this point, I'm debating just returning everything and going back to the old setup. It's just not worth all this effort.
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