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Old 12-15-2013, 04:34 PM   #1
fletchoman
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20.3.8 is still broken

Problem: Roamio is not recording scheduled programs

I got the update to the new firmware 20.3.8 but it has not fixed the problem that I have been experiencing. The unit failed to record the Cowboy's game today and it is in the failed state now.

Can someone please list a set of instructions to capture troubleshooting information to help Tivo understand the issue.

I posted a pic showing the tuner is in the failed state. The channel that was selected (609 FOX) shows as recording but no tuners are set to the channel. It looks like tuner 2 was expected to capture the recording but it is in a failed state (see pic).
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Old 12-15-2013, 04:42 PM   #2
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Old 12-15-2013, 04:52 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fletchoman View Post
Problem: Roamio is not recording scheduled programs

I got the update to the new firmware 20.3.8 but it has not fixed the problem that I have been experiencing. The unit failed to record the Cowboy's game today and it is in the failed state now.

Can someone please list a set of instructions to capture troubleshooting information to help Tivo understand the issue.

I posted a pic showing the tuner is in the failed state. The channel that was selected (609 FOX) shows as recording but no tuners are set to the channel. It looks like tuner 2 was expected to capture the recording but it is in a failed state (see pic).
Interesting. That is crazy. It's recording the Cowboys game fine for me right now. I'm at a loss for you too. Don't know why that would be happening.
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Old 12-15-2013, 04:54 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by fletchoman View Post
Problem: Roamio is not recording scheduled programs

I got the update to the new firmware 20.3.8 but it has not fixed the problem that I have been experiencing. The unit failed to record the Cowboy's game today and it is in the failed state now.

Can someone please list a set of instructions to capture troubleshooting information to help Tivo understand the issue.

I posted a pic showing the tuner is in the failed state. The channel that was selected (609 FOX) shows as recording but no tuners are set to the channel. It looks like tuner 2 was expected to capture the recording but it is in a failed state (see pic).
Bad cable card ??
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Old 12-15-2013, 04:58 PM   #5
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Bad cable card ??
I am on my second cable card. I was able to select 6 channels to record simultaneously as a test, but this failure is typically happening when I only have 1 scheduled event.
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Old 12-15-2013, 05:06 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by fletchoman View Post
I am on my second cable card. I was able to select 6 channels to record simultaneously as a test, but this failure is typically happening when I only have 1 scheduled event.
Problem with the Roamio itself ?? as you are the first person to report such a problem, I have two Roamio +s running without problems and most people on this Thread have well working Roamio(s), when the TiVo servers are working.
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Old 12-15-2013, 05:07 PM   #7
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I thought my device was going to do the same thing, but was pleasantly surprised.

I set up both the 1:00 and 4:00 games to record on Fox (513 Verizon Fios) via a wishlist for NFL Football. I have all games padded an hour and a half. In the past, the second game would start recording at 4:00, using a second tuner and overlapping the first game which is still recording.

Today, at around 4:30, I noticed the second game was not recording, and I couldn't force it to. But, when the padding ended around 5:30, the first recording closed, and the second started, showing it to have an hour and a half already recorded. It seems that the unit has gained enough intelligence to avoid tying up two tuners to record the same thing!

Could this be happening in the OP case?
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Old 12-15-2013, 05:08 PM   #8
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I thought my device was going to do the same thing, but was pleasantly surprised.

I set up both the 1:00 and 4:00 games to record on Fox (513 Verizon Fios) via a wishlist for NFL Football. I have all games padded an hour and a half. In the past, the second game would start recording at 4:00, using a second tuner and overlapping the first game which is still recording.

Today, at around 4:30, I noticed the second game was not recording, and I couldn't force it to. But, when the padding ended around 5:30, the first recording closed, and the second started, showing it to have an hour and a half already recorded. It seems that the unit has gained enough intelligence to avoid tying up two tuners to record the same thing!

Could this be happening in the OP case?
Not with the picture the OP posted, that was ugly.
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Old 12-15-2013, 05:19 PM   #9
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Not with the picture the OP posted, that was ugly.
Here is another one: tuner 5 is also OTL
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Old 12-15-2013, 05:40 PM   #10
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I'd be interested to know your CableCard brand and firmware version. The Cisco firmware 1.5.2.2801 or 1.5.3.0601 can do 6 tuners at some times but present problems at other times.
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Old 12-15-2013, 05:47 PM   #11
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I'd be interested to know your CableCard brand and firmware version. The Cisco firmware 1.5.2.2801 or 1.5.3.0601 can do 6 tuners at some times but present problems at other times.
I'm using the Cisco cable card...1.5.2_F.p.3001.

A channel test brought the system back to life and now all the tuners are working.
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Old 12-15-2013, 09:09 PM   #12
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That is some ugly ****** on those pics
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Old 12-15-2013, 10:14 PM   #13
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I'm getting the same thing on my diag screens, since the update rolled, but had not before the update.

Whatever TiVo did to workaround the problem, took me from not having SDV problems, to lots of these problems. Sometimes it's not even a SDV channel, but I think another tuner being on a SDV channel is what causes the non-SDV channel to give DVR Diags these types of statuses.

Three affected Roamios, and one Premiere I haven't shipped away yet. All getting borked by this update.
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Old 12-16-2013, 01:39 PM   #14
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I just got off of the phone with a very capable Tivo support person (Christopher). We found that the signal strength was too strong (100%, 41db) on all tuners. I placed a 10db attenuator inline to get (86%, 34db). I will report back if this change solves my issue.
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Old 12-16-2013, 02:55 PM   #15
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You are probably experiencing the cablecard problem with six tuners activated. The one you are using has problems. Read the thread on Tuners 5 and 6 not working. You need to revert to 5 or 4 tuners.
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Old 12-16-2013, 03:01 PM   #16
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TA problem?
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Old 12-17-2013, 02:01 AM   #17
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TA problem?
In my case no. Going from six TAs in use, to three, lets me swap them around, same with cablecards. I haven't returned any yet, just in case the ones I picked (I go for the highest serial numbers/most recent manufacture date) seem to be failing or have some issue that can be resolved by changing them.

It's a PITA, swapping them around, though. Cox pairs the TA to a specific cablecard, so lots of reading letters and numbers over VoIP telephone, and hoping they can hear me clearly, as well as the other way around.
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Old 12-17-2013, 06:55 AM   #18
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You are probably experiencing the cablecard problem with six tuners activated. The one you are using has problems. Read the thread on Tuners 5 and 6 not working. You need to revert to 5 or 4 tuners.
The pics showing tuner five is the one that I disabled, because I thought the same thing. Unfortunately it has made no difference on my issue. My failure has typically happened when I only had one scheduled recording...
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Old 12-17-2013, 10:07 PM   #19
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I just got off of the phone with a very capable Tivo support person (Christopher). We found that the signal strength was too strong (100%, 41db) on all tuners. I placed a 10db attenuator inline to get (86%, 34db). I will report back if this change solves my issue.
I'm having that problem whenever I have back to back programs on the same channel. I don't have that problem on my Premiere XL, just my Roamio Pro. I just ordered some attenuators, but I'm having my doubts. I have 39 db on tuner 0, and 41 db on tuners 1 through 5 on the Roamio Pro. I have 37 db on both tuners of the Premiere XL. One would think I would see the same problem on my Premiere XL, but its operation has been flawless.
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Old 12-17-2013, 10:12 PM   #20
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The dB #s in Roamio must be calculated differently or there is an internal booster as part of the Roamio since they have always been higher than series 4 units connected to same coax. In my case all 6 tuners are in the low 40s for dB and signal strength is 100% on all tuners. That is a red flag according to TiVo support but I have not had any signal trouble or missed recordings and in fact the Roamio Pro has been the best behaving TiVo in that regard for me so far.
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Old 12-18-2013, 11:05 AM   #21
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The dB #s in Roamio must be calculated differently or there is an internal booster as part of the Roamio since they have always been higher than series 4 units connected to same coax. In my case all 6 tuners are in the low 40s for dB and signal strength is 100% on all tuners. That is a red flag according to TiVo support but I have not had any signal trouble or missed recordings and in fact the Roamio Pro has been the best behaving TiVo in that regard for me so far.
The only problem is your 100% signal power may be 101% no problem, or 190% that could be a problem, TiVo should re-do that signal meter like the old VU meters, say low if less than 40% OK from 40% to 60% and good from 60% to 80% than too high above 80%.
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Old 12-19-2013, 12:01 AM   #22
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The only problem is your 100% signal power may be 101% no problem, or 190% that could be a problem, TiVo should re-do that signal meter like the old VU meters, say low if less than 40% OK from 40% to 60% and good from 60% to 80% than too high above 80%.
I can understand (while I used to not understand) why TiVo goes with their 0-100 scale, instead of dBmV readings like MSO STBs (excluding MSOs that use TiVo).

What stands out is that the standardized dBmV readings on even ancient STBs would change color (Green/White=good, Grey/White=acceptable, Yellow=borderline, Red=not acceptable).

If TiVo did this, or extended the scale to be 0-200, or presented a scale bar with a pointer indicating where you are on that scale, or presented both scale and dBmV readings, it would make EVERYBODY'S life easier.

Think of how many support calls could be eliminated for TiVo, MSOs, and end-users alike.

IMHO, other than keeping a consistent (consistently poor implementation, which TiVo excels at) end-user experience, it just makes no sense for them to keep using a method that creates so many issues, resulting in so many headaches, all around.

The dBmV reading would tell anybody involved the exact level of attenuation required, rather than guessing, and spending more time/money buying more attenuators, because the ones used still don't get it right, having to use trial and error to get the right one. With any device that uses a true dBmV value, I have never had to get and install an attenuator more than once.

Unless they like headaches, and are in bed with the attenuator market, it makes no sense.

Also, there's another factor involved. Cox, in my market, does not allow their installers/techs to use attenuators. All attenuation must be achieved with splitters, and if that means using a six-way, and capping off the unused ports with terminators, that is how they do it.

I even have to do it this way. If I call them out for an issue, or for signal level/quality testing that my equipment can't do, and they spot any attenuators, they will remove them, and install splitters and terminate any extra ports that may be left. They will try to take away my attenuators, unless I protest that that are owned by me. They are instructed to eliminate attenuators and take them with them when they leave.

I'd also like to see TiVo redo how they calculate SNR. They obviously don't use the same method as what is the standard. It's way past time for them to calculate it the same way MSO equipment does. In a true SNR reading, there is no such thing as too high a SNR. My best guess as to why TiVo keeps it as they do, is to compensate for their 0-100 scale, and use the SNR as a means to identify a "hot" (excessive) signal. This is just leads to more headaches and confusion/frustration for all. Again, poor implementation of things, leading to headaches, all around.
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Old 12-19-2013, 07:23 AM   #23
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I can understand (while I used to not understand) why TiVo goes with their 0-100 scale, instead of dBmV readings like MSO STBs (excluding MSOs that use TiVo).

What stands out is that the standardized dBmV readings on even ancient STBs would change color (Green/White=good, Grey/White=acceptable, Yellow=borderline, Red=not acceptable).

If TiVo did this, or extended the scale to be 0-200, or presented a scale bar with a pointer indicating where you are on that scale, or presented both scale and dBmV readings, it would make EVERYBODY'S life easier.

Think of how many support calls could be eliminated for TiVo, MSOs, and end-users alike.

IMHO, other than keeping a consistent (consistently poor implementation, which TiVo excels at) end-user experience, it just makes no sense for them to keep using a method that creates so many issues, resulting in so many headaches, all around.

The dBmV reading would tell anybody involved the exact level of attenuation required, rather than guessing, and spending more time/money buying more attenuators, because the ones used still don't get it right, having to use trial and error to get the right one. With any device that uses a true dBmV value, I have never had to get and install an attenuator more than once.

Unless they like headaches, and are in bed with the attenuator market, it makes no sense.

Also, there's another factor involved. Cox, in my market, does not allow their installers/techs to use attenuators. All attenuation must be achieved with splitters, and if that means using a six-way, and capping off the unused ports with terminators, that is how they do it.

I even have to do it this way. If I call them out for an issue, or for signal level/quality testing that my equipment can't do, and they spot any attenuators, they will remove them, and install splitters and terminate any extra ports that may be left. They will try to take away my attenuators, unless I protest that that are owned by me. They are instructed to eliminate attenuators and take them with them when they leave.

I'd also like to see TiVo redo how they calculate SNR. They obviously don't use the same method as what is the standard. It's way past time for them to calculate it the same way MSO equipment does. In a true SNR reading, there is no such thing as too high a SNR. My best guess as to why TiVo keeps it as they do, is to compensate for their 0-100 scale, and use the SNR as a means to identify a "hot" (excessive) signal. This is just leads to more headaches and confusion/frustration for all. Again, poor implementation of things, leading to headaches, all around.
Agree 100% the current diagnostics #s are all but worthless. I have dB #s in the 40s and signal strength 100% for all tuners and things are working fine. Others with issues have posted similar #s from diagnostics. i.e. The way it is now you cannot know for sure from the #s if you have a signal problem or not.
If for some reason TiVo doesn't want to share the true meaningful #s then at least they should have a means to obtain the measurements from your TiVo remotely so that they can tell you if there really is a problem or not. Right now as soon as a CSR hears you have db #s in the 40s they give you the standard crap that your signal is too "hot" whether or not that really is the case.
I think suggesting to TiVoMargret that current Diagnostics #s be updated to be more meaningful may be worth pursuing.
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Old 12-19-2013, 03:20 PM   #24
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Agree 100% the current diagnostics #s are all but worthless. I have dB #s in the 40s and signal strength 100% for all tuners and things are working fine. Others with issues have posted similar #s from diagnostics. i.e. The way it is now you cannot know for sure from the #s if you have a signal problem or not.
If for some reason TiVo doesn't want to share the true meaningful #s then at least they should have a means to obtain the measurements from your TiVo remotely so that they can tell you if there really is a problem or not. Right now as soon as a CSR hears you have db #s in the 40s they give you the standard crap that your signal is too "hot" whether or not that really is the case.
I think suggesting to TiVoMargret that current Diagnostics #s be updated to be more meaningful may be worth pursuing.
I agree 100% with that, as well. Although, this whole topic really belongs in the threads with titles like "Tivo is blaming V53 error on SNR ratio?", and other similar threads.

By all means, pursue away. I can't see any reason for anybody to *not* want TiVo to get with the program, and use standardized measurements, readings, and calculations.

I'm sick of explaining to Cox why a SNR greater than 36 is too high. I'm sick of being told what I already know about true SNR.

If they want to display it their own proprietary way, they should at least give a separate measurement by the standards, or give an option like "press enter to view advanced signal diagnostics", like how they added "Press enter for advanced options" at the beginning of Guided Setup, which adds the hidden menu item of "Installer Express Setup".

If they could add that (which didn't exist in early software versions), there's no reason they couldn't put all the technical data (the "good stuff") related to signal & SNR in standardized format, where those who know what dBmV & true SNR values mean, can get to it, and those who don't know what it all means can never have to see it, unless prompted to provide those readings, or a cable tech is there and needs those values, without TiVo's stupid secret representations that defy logic.
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Old 12-20-2013, 01:58 AM   #25
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........, without TiVo's stupid secret representations that defy logic.
Well there's the problem, you used TiVo and logic in the same sentence!
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Old 12-20-2013, 06:09 PM   #26
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It is definitely not the attenuator...system failed to record this evening again.

Tivo is sending another unit to replace this one, I will let everybody know how the second one works.

Note: you will see a scheduled recording missing; when you open history it will show a status of "no signal".
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Old 12-20-2013, 06:16 PM   #27
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It is definitely not the attenuator...system failed to record this evening again.

Tivo is sending another unit to replace this one, I will let everybody know how the second one works.

Note: you will see a scheduled recording missing; when you open history it will show a status of "no signal".
In order to see them you need to select the view mode with the Red "C" button to "show(all)".

If you don't, it's not a "conflict", so the default view doesn't display them.

On top of that, if you don't open the additional info, it's not clear why it didn't record, just that it didn't.

EDIT/ADD: I really wish TiVo would add a viewing mode just for "missed recordings" that have nothing to do with the guide data, conflicts, or your recording parameters (new only, new & repeats, record everything), etc.

It's a major PITA sifting through "show(all)" mode, adding insult to injury, and could really incite a psychotic break for those who have a view other than "It's only TV, big deal".

Last edited by nooneuknow : 12-20-2013 at 06:23 PM.
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Old 12-20-2013, 06:26 PM   #28
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One small twist...

Tivo now wants me to send the unit to them before they send me a replacement. Wow, what was terrific customer support has now been erased by stupidity.

A very nice tech support person (Conner) is now supposed to call me back tomorrow to let me know if they can send a replacement first...after checking with a supervisor.

don't they know I have been using Tivo for years...with 2 lifetime subscriptions???
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Old 12-20-2013, 07:10 PM   #29
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In order to see them you need to select the view mode with the Red "C" button to "show(all)".

If you don't, it's not a "conflict", so the default view doesn't display them
.
Once again my failure was with one scheduled recording...
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Old 12-20-2013, 09:40 PM   #30
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So you're CALLING TIVO and/or REPORTING THIS ON THEIR FORUMS, right?

Otherwise, you are effectively talking to a wall. Tivo does not follow these forums! To get ACTUAL HELP from someone who can help, you need to contact them.
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