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Old 12-10-2013, 02:40 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by pgoelz View Post
At the same time, could you please look into why..... for weeks..... the telephone support people were telling me adamantly that the C133 errors were DEFINITELY NOT on the Tivo side? This caused quite a bit of misunderstanding, frustration and anger directed at Tivo because it flew in the face of every indication I had at my disposal (speed tests, traceroutes and ping plots) that said there was NOTHING AT ALL wrong with my LAN, or the internet in general. And worse, it gave me the impression when I did call about it that Tivo was NOT looking into it.... just telling me to reboot everything and "see if that fixes it". Or worse, open a range of ports and permanently KEEP THEM OPEN. An open invitation to port scanners......

Paul
My father gets C133 issues ALL THE TIME. Like almost every day. I do not. Clearly they're not ALWAYS a TiVo-side issue like the outage a few weeks ago.

But I have no idea what could cause my father's problem. His network seems fine.
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Old 12-10-2013, 07:01 PM   #92
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Or maybe Margret just enjoys interacting with us, a delightfully enthusiastic subset of TiVo's customer base. (Don't laugh. It could happen.)
I won't laugh. It is entirely plausible. Many people, myself included, enjoy helping other people and interacting in productive ways. As a whole, the people on these forums are far more technological, sophisticated, and articulate than the "general public at large owning TiVo's".

We are actually a useful resource that can be tapped for solving problems, testing, getting suggestions for improvements, and fairly accurate feedback for how things are working. I (and many others from this forum) have volunteered to beta test more than once and it is a lot of work. Most of us can be HIGHLY critical, but most of us also want a better product, better service, and a better and stronger TiVo.
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Old 12-10-2013, 08:51 PM   #93
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This conversation is reminding me of an article I read the other day.

"Upsetting the status quo — or upending it — is always a radical proposition and is often an unpopular one, sometimes even among those who suffer under the entrenched system."

"Those who can’t imagine change reveal the deficits of their imaginations, not the difficulty of change."

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/07/op...ore-dying.html

I've made my position known. I don't really wish to debate this anymore. I would rather spend time watching my Tivo then talking about it! Thank you to everyone who participated in this conversation.
At last!!
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Old 12-14-2013, 12:08 PM   #94
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I'm adding myself to the disgruntled list. I'm packing up all my newly purchased Tivo gear (roamio and 4 minis) and returning them today. I've had enough of this two week torture of errors, stuttering and skipping.

I'll tell you this I DESPISE comcast and their equipment, but I'm going back to it, as at least I was able to watch reliable television with their boxes.

TIVO, if you're reading, your history and your reputation made me a Tivo customer two weeks ago, but your newest gear has made me leave.

Last edited by jntc : 12-14-2013 at 04:45 PM.
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Old 12-14-2013, 12:13 PM   #95
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Open Letter to Tom Rogers, Tivo CEO and Tivo Management

Wow. Sorry to hear that. I'm loving my 3 Roamio's and 4 Mini's on FiOS. I've had no issues. And even that one day with C133's everything worked fine other then that exclamation point in the upper left. I was as big a DirecTV fan as there was but Roamio on FiOS is awesome. Just awesome.
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Old 12-14-2013, 12:26 PM   #96
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jntc- you may be gone already, but did you ask for help on this issue here? You could have a bad box (drive is my guess). It happens.
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Old 12-14-2013, 12:35 PM   #97
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jntc- you may be gone already, but did you ask for help on this issue here? You could have a bad box (drive is my guess). It happens.
Yes, I have posted on this, called tivo, and even replaced the boxes, twice now. I've tried moca, ethernet, wireless. I've put in a new splitter, new cable, new HDMI cables.

My signals are fantastic 97-100, with 30SNR on each tuner/channel

My moca signals are fantastic ~270PHY for both Rx and Tx and -6 to -14 on Power Tx and ~.5 on Rx

No errors in packets

The first mini and roamio I had presented a very dark and red picture. Replaced, roamio was good. The second Mini would drift out of audio sync and skip frames/stutter. The third Mini (as well as two additional ones) will skip frames, drop audio, and stutter.

This combined with the c133, v53 and v58 and blue circles spinning and spinning have driven me absolute mad.

I'm sorry if this is not the norm, but this has been my experience, and my family is mad.

Seriously, I've done everything I can to make this work, I have not seen any other options that will do what I wanted to achieve with Tivo. There is no competition and like I said, Tivo's history says this shouldn't be the case.

Last edited by jntc : 12-14-2013 at 04:44 PM.
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Old 12-14-2013, 01:00 PM   #98
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Yes, they call that a recall and people get their stuff fixed or refunded. I don't see Tivo doing that.
No, only the ones that get enough attention and generally involve safety become recalls and get fixed. Many are posted as TSB's and it's the customer gets to pay for them if beyond your warranty period. Some don't even rate a TSB but are common failures on particular models. A couple on my current care include the radio/heating/cooling LCD display failure and the headliner falling down.

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Old 12-14-2013, 04:47 PM   #99
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Wow. Sorry to hear that. I'm loving my 3 Roamio's and 4 Mini's on FiOS. I've had no issues. And even that one day with C133's everything worked fine other then that exclamation point in the upper left. I was as big a DirecTV fan as there was but Roamio on FiOS is awesome. Just awesome.
You have no issues with your mini's skipping out/stuttering/audio dropout type problems? I have had four, and every one has experienced this. (mainly during live TV watching)

Can you take a look at your network status from one of your minis and see what your values are for PHY TX and RX and Power for TX and RX?

Luckily the weather is crappy, and I don't feel like dragging all these back to BestBuy tonight.


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Old 12-14-2013, 08:54 PM   #100
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Yes, I have posted on this, called tivo, and even replaced the boxes, twice now. I've tried moca, ethernet, wireless. I've put in a new splitter, new cable, new HDMI cables.

My signals are fantastic 97-100, with 30SNR on each tuner/channel

My moca signals are fantastic ~270PHY for both Rx and Tx and -6 to -14 on Power Tx and ~.5 on Rx

No errors in packets

The first mini and roamio I had presented a very dark and red picture. Replaced, roamio was good. The second Mini would drift out of audio sync and skip frames/stutter. The third Mini (as well as two additional ones) will skip frames, drop audio, and stutter.

This combined with the c133, v53 and v58 and blue circles spinning and spinning have driven me absolute mad.

I'm sorry if this is not the norm, but this has been my experience, and my family is mad.

Seriously, I've done everything I can to make this work, I have not seen any other options that will do what I wanted to achieve with Tivo. There is no competition and like I said, Tivo's history says this shouldn't be the case.
If the SNR 30dB is accurate that number is not good as you are on the verge of losing audio and video on the channel you took that number from.
If you are experiencing audio drop outs and tiling video or stuttering video then you need Comcast to come out and look for the problem that is causing this.

It could be bad F connectors, bad coax wiring, splitters, or improper amps in the home. Junky amps will add noise to the signal.
If the problem is outside then it is bad F connectors, bad drop, bad tap, bad couplers, bad line splitters, bad amps, etc.
If the problem is moisture or water getting in the hardware outside the winter will reveal this problem when the water freezes, especially at night.

Before you give up and send the TiVo hardware back you should have this looked at first. You should have a SNR of at least 35dB or above for every channel. You can have lower power levels but not lower SNR levels. If you have little noise in your cable signal the SNR will stay stable even if you reduce the power level by adding in a large number of splits. Right now you are sitting on the edge of the digital cliff where the audio and video will quit working altogether.
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Old 12-14-2013, 09:09 PM   #101
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If the SNR 30dB is accurate that number is not good as you are on the verge of losing audio and video on the channel you took that number from.
If you are experiencing audio drop outs and tiling video or stuttering video then you need Comcast to come out and look for the problem that is causing this.

It could be bad F connectors, bad coax wiring, splitters, or improper amps in the home. Junky amps will add noise to the signal.
If the problem is outside then it is bad F connectors, bad drop, bad tap, bad couplers, bad line splitters, bad amps, etc.
If the problem is moisture or water getting in the hardware outside the winter will reveal this problem when the water freezes, especially at night.

Before you give up and send the TiVo hardware back you should have this looked at first. You should have a SNR of at least 35dB or above for every channel. You can have lower power levels but not lower SNR levels. If you have little noise in your cable signal the SNR will stay stable even if you reduce the power level by adding in a large number of splits. Right now you are sitting on the edge of the digital cliff where the audio and video will quit working altogether.
My mistake on that the SNR's are hovering around 39 not 30
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Old 12-14-2013, 09:54 PM   #102
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My mistake on that the SNR's are hovering around 39 not 30
That's good. I read some of your posts and you indicate that you have no issue with the Roamio just with the minis. I can not help you with this as I do not have any minis just two Premiere 4's that are connected to my network by a wired connection.
I did read somewhere that noise can effect devices using a Moca connection and cause the issues you are having.
Can you try using a wired connection to at least one of the minis even if you have to set it up in the same room as the Roamio?
TiVo told me when I bought my Premiere 4's this summer that they prefer a wired connection as this is the best set up.
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Old 12-14-2013, 10:03 PM   #103
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That's good. I read some of your posts and you indicate that you have no issue with the Roamio just with the minis. I can not help you with this as I do not have any minis just two Premiere 4's that are connected to my network by a wired connection.
I did read somewhere that noise can effect devices using a Moca connection and cause the issues you are having.
Can you try using a wired connection to at least one of the minis even if you have to set it up in the same room as the Roamio?
TiVo told me when I bought my Premiere 4's this summer that they prefer a wired connection as this is the best set up.
This is true, no problems on the Roamio at all. I think I could get ethernet to each one if need be, but was told that moca should be more than enough to stream to the mini's.

However, I'll give this a shot and see what we get. I didn't want to use eth as not to saturate my normal network with streaming to the mini's.

As to not hi-jack this thread - I have another thread open in the Mini's forum here: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=512363 - anyone offering advice, please go there.
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Old 12-14-2013, 10:37 PM   #104
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This is true, no problems on the Roamio at all. I think I could get ethernet to each one if need be, but was told that moca should be more than enough to stream to the mini's.

However, I'll give this a shot and see what we get. I didn't want to use eth as not to saturate my normal network with streaming to the mini's.

As to not hi-jack this thread - I have another thread open in the Mini's forum here: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=512363 - anyone offering advice, please go there.
I understand that MoCA operates in the 500MHz to 1650MHz range so it is possible that something is interfering with the MoCA signal in your home. Eliminating the MoCA setup and trying one mini with wired Ethernet is the simplest way to go about this. If the issues go away then you can determine that the problem lies with the infrastructure in your home.

I found this link about TiVo and MoCA during a search. They makes things look real easy but they have no information on how to troubleshoot it when things go wrong.
http://moca4installers.com/TiVo_MoCA_networks.php
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Old 12-14-2013, 11:20 PM   #105
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You have no issues with your mini's skipping out/stuttering/audio dropout type problems? I have had four, and every one has experienced this. (mainly during live TV watching)

Can you take a look at your network status from one of your minis and see what your values are for PHY TX and RX and Power for TX and RX?

Luckily the weather is crappy, and I don't feel like dragging all these back to BestBuy tonight.

Yep, no issues. I'm all Ethernet at the moment with all 7 boxes, since I tested with Ethernet and got 180-200Mbps on transfers, thus decided to stay on Ethernet. The only issue I've had is one day I had an issue with Roamio to Roamio streaming and a Can't Play Now message but no issue since.
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Old 12-15-2013, 12:46 AM   #106
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You have no issues with your mini's skipping out/stuttering/audio dropout type problems? I have had four, and every one has experienced this. (mainly during live TV watching)

Can you take a look at your network status from one of your minis and see what your values are for PHY TX and RX and Power for TX and RX?

Luckily the weather is crappy, and I don't feel like dragging all these back to BestBuy tonight.

I just did and they all above 200, they go from 205 to 270, I have 1 mini and 2 Roamio +s and one 4 tuner TP. I bridge one Roamio + to the network.
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Old 12-15-2013, 08:43 AM   #107
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Yep, no issues. I'm all Ethernet at the moment with all 7 boxes, since I tested with Ethernet and got 180-200Mbps on transfers, thus decided to stay on Ethernet. The only issue I've had is one day I had an issue with Roamio to Roamio streaming and a Can't Play Now message but no issue since.
The mini only has 10/100mbps ethernet, and my moca is claiming 280mbps. I figured that moca would be the better choice here.

I'm going to try ethernet today to rule out a moca issue though.

I also realized the the leviton 5way splitter I have (the only splitter in the mix - in from outside to 5way with homeruns to each tv) is only rated at 1000mhz, so I ordered a 2400mhz to replace that as well.

It's good news to hear that this is not a common problem.

I'm hoping to win this!
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Old 12-15-2013, 09:07 AM   #108
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I also realized the the leviton 5way splitter I have (the only splitter in the mix - in from outside to 5way with homeruns to each tv) is only rated at 1000mhz, so I ordered a 2400mhz to replace that as well.
Yep, I was reading through the posts and about to tell you to check your splitters- that you probably have an old one that is mucking your MOCA....
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Old 12-15-2013, 09:14 AM   #109
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I agree that poor customer support is not specific to Tivo. One only has to call their local cable company to confirm that. Saying all companies offer poor customer support is not an excuse to offer poor support.

I made one suggestion that I said would be a huge timesaver for everyone, would result in a huge cost savings for Tivo in terms of wasted phone support time, and would take very few resources to put in place– create an organized list of Known Issues (like the Gmail example I gave earlier) that was easily accessible on tivo.com for everyone to see. That way, someone wondering why they were getting two recordings every time they padded a season pass recording wouldn't have to call up phone support, post to a forum, read through a VP's Twitter feed, or search through hundreds of support articles on tivo.com to know that it was a known problem being worked on. They wouldn't have to fight with Level 1 phone support to make sure it got reported to Level 2 support to make sure that they knew about it.
But I don't get two recordings from a padded season pass. I pad very few SPs, but the ones I do pad do not create two recordings from it. So I don't see how this is a known problem when it doesn't even occur on the two Roamios I own.
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Old 12-15-2013, 09:21 AM   #110
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The mini only has 10/100mbps ethernet, and my moca is claiming 280mbps. I figured that moca would be the better choice here.

I'm going to try ethernet today to rule out a moca issue though.

I also realized the the leviton 5way splitter I have (the only splitter in the mix - in from outside to 5way with homeruns to each tv) is only rated at 1000mhz, so I ordered a 2400mhz to replace that as well.

It's good news to hear that this is not a common problem.

I'm hoping to win this!
Yeah, for FiOS I just switched to their Verizon branded 5-1675Mhz splitters. PDI-2WWB-2.0 and PDI-4WWB-2.0 MoCA 2.0 splitters. We don't need MoCA 2.0 for Roamio but figured that I'd go with the standard infrastructure.
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Old 12-15-2013, 09:32 AM   #111
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The mini only has 10/100mbps ethernet, and my moca is claiming 280mbps. I figured that moca would be the better choice here.

I'm going to try ethernet today to rule out a moca issue though.

I also realized the the leviton 5way splitter I have (the only splitter in the mix - in from outside to 5way with homeruns to each tv) is only rated at 1000mhz, so I ordered a 2400mhz to replace that as well.

It's good news to hear that this is not a common problem.

I'm hoping to win this!
My main FiOS intalled spitter is 1GHz 8-way splitter and the ones I've installed were also 1Ghz. When I was using MoCA they all worked fine with FiOS, my two Minis, and Roamio Pro..
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Old 12-15-2013, 09:39 AM   #112
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It's good news to hear that this is not a common problem.
Yeah, I've had a Roamio Pro + 3 Minis on FiOS using MoCA for over a month now, and I've had none of problems you have had. My setup is different than yours in that I am using an Actontech MoCA adaptor to generate the MoCA network rather than the Roamio itself.

Hope you get it straightened out......I've been a TiVO user for over 13 years, and this is the TiVO setup and performance I been waiting for. I could not be happier. Well, except for not having folders and the ability to watch Amazon movie rentals on the Minis.....
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Old 12-15-2013, 12:35 PM   #113
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But I don't get two recordings from a padded season pass. I pad very few SPs, but the ones I do pad do not create two recordings from it. So I don't see how this is a known problem when it doesn't even occur on the two Roamios I own.
It's not padded SPs that cause the problem. It's changing/adding padding to individual recordings that are already set to record because you have an SP for them.
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