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Old 12-09-2013, 05:49 PM   #31
colin1497
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So I have a number of movies ripped and hadn't really been paying attention to realize that "push mode" existed with pytivo. Decided to get up to date and enjoy things in their full glory through my Premier 4XL.

The files are m4v container H.264 encoded with handbrake with 2 tracks, one 2 channel prologic, one AC3 pass-through. This is a typical handbrake apple TV or high preset, I believe. The pushed videos default to the AC-3 track and fail to play audio. I can manually switch to the prologic audio track during playback and it plays happily, so at first I assumed that my pass-through was borked, but when I started diagnosing, I realized that it wasn't quite that simple. For example "The Prestige" BD contains 2 audio tracks:

Track 1 BD LPCM
Track 2 AC3 Dolby Digital

I tried various permutations with them:

Scenario 1:
Encode Source Track 1
Output Track 1 prologic, Output Track 2 "AC3 Passthru"
Tivo defaults to Track 2, as you'd hope, but doesn't send audio to the receiver, only Track 1 will play.

Scenario 2:
Encode Source Track 2
Output Track 1 prologic, Output Track 2 "AC3 Passthru"
Tivo defaults to Track 2, as you'd hope, but doesn't send audio to the receiver, only Track 1 will play.

Scenario 3/4:
Encode Source Track 1 or 2
Output Track 1 "AC3 Passthru"
TiVo passes 5.1 to my receiver with no problems

Scenario 5:
Encode Source track 1 to output track 1, passthru
Encode Source track 2 to output track 2, passhtru
BOTH tracks work A-OK, 5.1 from my receiver. Defaults to 1.

Scenario 6
Flip Scenario 1 around and put the prologic on track 2 and the passthru on track 1.
Now it defaults to track 1 and plays CORRECTLY, 5.1, but if I switch to track 2 I get nothing.

Dear lord. So it appears that if a 2-channel encode is thrown into the mix, Track 2 doesn't work on the TiVo. Does anyone have any insight here other than just to figure out what works and work around it?

Scenario 6 seems to be a viable option so far if the files still work on other devices. Upside, at this point it appears that Scenario 6 plays on my son's Kindle Fire, playing the 2 channel encode without problems (5.1 encodes like Scenario 5 have no audio here, as it doesn't know what to do with them). I haven't tried it with any of our Apple devices yet, but let's assume for now they will also work. Downside, I've never encoded anything this way and I haven't seen others do it, either. It would be nice if I didn't have to re-encode every movie I own, so I'm hoping someone has a magic bullet.
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Old 12-09-2013, 06:49 PM   #32
colin1497
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So I was playing with the idea of remuxing these and saw the mp4box tool that others were using and grabbed it. Below is the info from my standard rip, where it defaults to the 2nd audio track but won't play it, but will play the 1st audio track if I manually switch to it. I notice that the 2nd audio track is flagged as "disabled." Off to try and read up on what the heck that means:

G:\Movies>mp4box -info "the prestige.m4v"
* Movie Info *
Timescale 1000 - Duration 02:10:29.824
4 track(s)
Fragmented File: no
File Brand isom - version 512
Created: UNKNOWN DATE Modified: GMT Mon Dec 09 23:43:01 2013

File has root IOD (9 bytes)
Scene PL 0xff - Graphics PL 0xff - OD PL 0xff
Visual PL: Not part of MPEG-4 Visual profiles (0xfe)
Audio PL: Not part of MPEG-4 audio profiles (0xfe)
No streams included in root OD

Chapters:
Chapter #1 - 00:00:00.000 - "Chapter 1"
Chapter #2 - 00:03:29.918 - "Chapter 2"
Chapter #3 - 00:07:45.089 - "Chapter 3"
Chapter #4 - 00:11:40.741 - "Chapter 4"
Chapter #5 - 00:16:04.129 - "Chapter 5"
Chapter #6 - 00:23:18.897 - "Chapter 6"
Chapter #7 - 00:27:20.555 - "Chapter 7"
Chapter #8 - 00:33:59.996 - "Chapter 8"
Chapter #9 - 00:38:46.782 - "Chapter 9"
Chapter #10 - 00:44:34.171 - "Chapter 10"
Chapter #11 - 00:49:28.298 - "Chapter 11"
Chapter #12 - 00:53:28.622 - "Chapter 12"
Chapter #13 - 00:59:49.043 - "Chapter 13"
Chapter #14 - 01:04:01.337 - "Chapter 14"
Chapter #15 - 01:08:48.499 - "Chapter 15"
Chapter #16 - 01:12:57.998 - "Chapter 16"
Chapter #17 - 01:17:47.371 - "Chapter 17"
Chapter #18 - 01:23:16.825 - "Chapter 18"
Chapter #19 - 01:35:48.868 - "Chapter 19"
Chapter #20 - 01:40:19.430 - "Chapter 20"
Chapter #21 - 01:45:17.352 - "Chapter 21"
Chapter #22 - 01:49:03.328 - "Chapter 22"
Chapter #23 - 01:55:06.733 - "Chapter 23"
Chapter #24 - 02:04:59.617 - "Chapter 24"

iTunes Info:
Name: The Prestige (12) (2006)
Artist: Hugh Jackman, Christian Bale, Michael Caine, Scarlett Johansson,
David Bowie, Piper Perabo, Andy Serkis, Daniel Davis, Jim Piddock, Christopher
Neame, Roger Rees, Jamie Harris
Genre: Thriller
Created: 2006-06-06
Disk: 0 / 0
Encoder Software: Lavf54.20.3
TrackNumber: 0 / 0
Cover Art: JPEG File

Track # 1 Info - TrackID 1 - TimeScale 90000 - Media Duration 02:10:29.780
Track has 2 edit lists: track duration is 02:10:29.864
Media Info: Language "Undetermined" - Type "vide:avc1" - 187727 samples
Visual Track layout: x=0 y=0 width=1920 height=818
MPEG-4 Config: Visual Stream - ObjectTypeIndication 0x21
AVC/H264 Video - Visual Size 1920 x 818
AVC Info: 1 SPS - 1 PPS - Profile High @ Level 4.1
NAL Unit length bits: 32
Pixel Aspect Ratio 1:1 - Indicated track size 1920 x 818
Self-synchronized

Track # 2 Info - TrackID 2 - TimeScale 48000 - Media Duration 02:10:29.802
Track has 2 edit lists: track duration is 02:10:29.865
Media Info: Language "English" - Type "soun:mp4a" - 367022 samples
MPEG-4 Config: Audio Stream - ObjectTypeIndication 0x40
MPEG-4 Audio AAC LC - 2 Channel(s) - SampleRate 48000
Synchronized on stream 1
Alternate Group ID 1

Track # 3 Info - TrackID 3 - TimeScale 48000 - Media Duration 02:10:29.824
Track has 2 edit lists: track duration is 02:10:29.902
Track is disabled
Media Info: Language "English" - Type "soun:ac-3" - 244682 samples
AC-3 stream - Sample Rate 48000 - 5.1 channel(s) - bitrate 640000
Alternate Group ID 1

Track # 4 Info - TrackID 6 - TimeScale 1000 - Media Duration 02:10:29.113
Track is disabled
Media Info: Language "Undetermined" - Type "text:text" - 24 samples
Timed Text - Size 0 x 0 - Translation X=0 Y=0 - Layer 0
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Old 12-09-2013, 06:57 PM   #33
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And for grins, here's the quick encode I did of just the first chapter with 2 pass-thru tracks (scenario 5, above). It also shows the 2nd track as disabled, but both tracks play A-OK. Only other difference is that I did chop the video resolution down so the test encode would go really fast since I was burning through several permutations:

G:\Movies>mp4box -info "test.m4v"
* Movie Info *
Timescale 1000 - Duration 00:03:29.752
3 track(s)
Fragmented File: no
File Brand isom - version 512
Created: UNKNOWN DATE Modified: UNKNOWN DATE
File has root IOD (9 bytes)
Scene PL 0xff - Graphics PL 0xff - OD PL 0xff
Visual PL: Not part of MPEG-4 Visual profiles (0xfe)
Audio PL: Not part of MPEG-4 audio profiles (0xfe)
No streams included in root OD

iTunes Info:
Encoder Software: Lavf54.20.3

Track # 1 Info - TrackID 1 - TimeScale 90000 - Media Duration 00:03:29.751
Track has 2 edit lists: track duration is 00:03:29.757
Media Info: Language "Undetermined" - Type "vide:avc1" - 5029 samples
Visual Track layout: x=0 y=0 width=718 height=306
MPEG-4 Config: Visual Stream - ObjectTypeIndication 0x21
AVC/H264 Video - Visual Size 720 x 306
AVC Info: 1 SPS - 1 PPS - Profile Baseline @ Level 3
NAL Unit length bits: 32
Pixel Aspect Ratio 408:409 - Indicated track size 718 x 306
Self-synchronized

Track # 2 Info - TrackID 2 - TimeScale 48000 - Media Duration 00:03:29.408
Media Info: Language "English" - Type "soun:ac-3" - 6544 samples
AC-3 stream - Sample Rate 48000 - 5.1 channel(s) - bitrate 640000
Alternate Group ID 1

Track # 3 Info - TrackID 3 - TimeScale 48000 - Media Duration 00:03:29.056
Track has 2 edit lists: track duration is 00:03:29.061
Track is disabled
Media Info: Language "English" - Type "soun:ac-3" - 6533 samples
AC-3 stream - Sample Rate 48000 - 5.1 channel(s) - bitrate 640000
Alternate Group ID 1
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Old 12-10-2013, 08:52 AM   #34
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Why do you need encodes with multiple audio tracks? Just mux with a single video and a single AC3 audio track. They will push and play fine. Tivo has never supported pushed mp4 video with multiple audio tracks well.
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Old 12-10-2013, 08:56 AM   #35
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He wants one file that will play on both TiVo and other devices, hence one track in AC3 and the other in Dolby prologic surround.
(Although I would be surprised to find a device that couldn't play AC3.)
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Old 12-10-2013, 01:36 PM   #36
colin1497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmiranda View Post
He wants one file that will play on both TiVo and other devices, hence one track in AC3 and the other in Dolby prologic surround.
(Although I would be surprised to find a device that couldn't play AC3.)
I know my son's Kindle Fire didn't play the AC3 only file. His old iPod touch won't, either, but I really don't care about it. I haven't tested other devices. It is sort of a default in Handbrake to do it this way -- all the higher end encode presets include both a stereo/prologic and AC3 passthru, I didn't just come up with the idea on my own.

It appears that putting the AC3 track first makes the TiVo happy, and the above appears to indicate that my TiVo is semi-competent at this and I should get used to (I am) so I guess the solution to change how I encode, and either rencode or remux the old movies. It looks like mp4box can probably do the remuxing with a little work on my part to figure out the command line structure and the workflow or how to script it.

Anyone got better suggestions?
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Old 12-10-2013, 01:56 PM   #37
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I encode TV shows pulled off my TiVo to dual audio tracks using KMTTG/ffmpeg. The AC3 5.1 track is second and the TiVo uses it when I push or pull back to the TiVo. The first track is aac stereo. The aac track has to be first in order for it to play on an iPad.
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Old 12-11-2013, 08:12 AM   #38
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Yes, its true that i-devices do not fully support the format Apple developed.

Just FYI, kindle fire and most other android tablets will play mp4 files with ac3 audio just fine. Just not in the stock gallery app. They work well on WDTV as well.
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Old 12-11-2013, 02:06 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cherry ghost View Post
I encode TV shows pulled off my TiVo to dual audio tracks using KMTTG/ffmpeg. The AC3 5.1 track is second and the TiVo uses it when I push or pull back to the TiVo. The first track is aac stereo. The aac track has to be first in order for it to play on an iPad.
OK, so you're saying you're targeting basically the same thing I am an it's successful. This is with a Premier series TiVo? If I pull from pytivo I get a transcode to mpeg2 and I don't get AC3 5.1, do I? I was thinking I had to push and avoid the transcode to get the AC3 track?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcthorne View Post
Yes, its true that i-devices do not fully support the format Apple developed.
Well, as long as it plays iTunes content correctly... /apple

Also, I hadn't tried my iPad yet as I assumed it was the most likely of my mobile platforms to support the AC3 audio.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jcthorne View Post
Just FYI, kindle fire and most other android tablets will play mp4 files with ac3 audio just fine. Just not in the stock gallery app. They work well on WDTV as well.
Thanks, I only tried the craptastic gallery.
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Old 12-12-2013, 09:12 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colin1497 View Post
OK, so you're saying you're targeting basically the same thing I am an it's successful. This is with a Premier series TiVo? If I pull from pytivo I get a transcode to mpeg2 and I don't get AC3 5.1, do I? I was thinking I had to push and avoid the transcode to get the AC3 track?


Yes, two-tuner Premiere

This is a half hour show taken off the TiVo, commercials removed, and encoded


Code:
Duration: 00:21:04.63, start: 0.021333, bitrate: 2042 kb/s
  Stream #0:0(und): Video: h264 (High) (avc1 / 0x31637661), yuv420p, 1280x720 [SAR 1:1 DAR 16:9], 1517 kb/s, 59.94 fps, 59.94 tbr, 60k tbn, 119.88 tbc
  Metadata:
    handler_name    : VideoHandler
  Stream #0:1(und): Audio: aac (mp4a / 0x6134706D), 48000 Hz, stereo, fltp, 128 kb/s
  Metadata:
    handler_name    : SoundHandler
  Stream #0:2(und): Audio: ac3 (ac-3 / 0x332D6361), 48000 Hz, 5.1(side), fltp, 384 kb/s
  Metadata:
    handler_name    : SoundHandler


Whether I push or pull it back to the TiVo, my AV receiver shows 5.1.

Not sure if it matters, but I have "ts = on" in pyTiVo


ETA: in pyTiVo settings -> HD TiVo settings -> audio_lang

I have the value set to "5.1, DTS, en"

I believe if that is blank, pyTiVo defaults to the first track

Last edited by cherry ghost : 12-12-2013 at 09:26 AM.
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Old 12-13-2013, 12:37 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colin1497 View Post
OK, so you're saying you're targeting basically the same thing I am an it's successful. This is with a Premier series TiVo? If I pull from pytivo I get a transcode to mpeg2 and I don't get AC3 5.1, do I? I was thinking I had to push and avoid the transcode to get the AC3 track?
Video and audio are transcoded separately -- the audio will be passed through if it's compatible. Also, pyTivo will transcode to 5.1, although some people have reported issues with this.

Consider also trying a pull with "ts=on" in the Server section of pyTivo.conf. This will pull the H.264 video without transcoding -- only a remux to transport stream format -- on a Series 4 or 5. But note that it's pickier than transcoding, and both pyTivo and the TiVo have issues with full-rate Blu-Ray video.
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Old 12-13-2013, 12:53 PM   #42
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Thanks for all the replies. I will dink with it more this weekend.
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Old 01-01-2014, 11:08 AM   #43
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Well, this weekend drug on a while. Initial tests with "ts=on" pulls seem to just pull across the 2 channel audio track. I think in the end end solution is to rip with 5.1 only and eventually remux or re-encode those old files.
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Old 01-28-2014, 03:20 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colin1497 View Post
Well, this weekend drug on a while. Initial tests with "ts=on" pulls seem to just pull across the 2 channel audio track. I think in the end end solution is to rip with 5.1 only and eventually remux or re-encode those old files.
I wanted to follow up on this in case some future person looked at this post.

1) I figured out that ffmpeg allows remuxing really easily from the command line
2) I didn't end up remuxing things because, once I added the "5.1, DTS, en" mentioned above, pull sends across the 5.1 track and I'm happy, even if push doesn't work quite right.
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Old 01-29-2014, 01:45 PM   #45
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Has anyone had this issue with pyTivo:

When trying to pull a bd movie (makemkv -> handbrake .m4v) the transfer "starts" but the blue light never comes on. The video never actually transfers, it's paused at the first [black] frame and cancels itself out after a few minutes.

I think this began after the newest handbrake update but not sure. DVD's seem to be fine but I haven't tried a new dvd since the handbrake update. BD's ripped prior have worked.

Thanks in advance,
Mike
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Old 02-01-2014, 03:29 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rfryar View Post
Roamio still fails on the full bitrate MP4 blu ray remuxed file.

While I had no audio drop outs like I had on the mini and Premiere I did have some extreme pixelation during high bit rate scenes. This was on a fully downloaded show on the Roamio.

So moral of the story, you must transcode BluRay movies down to a lower bitrate for all tivos. Not sure what the highest bitrate would be, probably have to experiment to find the ideal number for best quality.

Personally I just transcode to 8Mb/s as I am not too picky on the quality but I wanted to be through on my answer.

Rick
Thanks for testing and posting this Rick. I'm very disappointment that the new Romio's can't handle it without transcoding (one of the reasons I was looking at an upgrade if it did). What a bummer.
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