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Old 12-09-2013, 11:19 PM   #1501
nooneuknow
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Originally Posted by Zu Nim View Post
$340 Plus + $120 3TB HD vs. $490 Pro. $30 difference, no tinkering.
I just wrote up a post, relevant to this in another thread, here:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...65#post9926765
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Old 12-10-2013, 12:10 AM   #1502
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I think that some peole talking about the $30 difference without take in consideration the 1TB hard drive that are over paying. So why Tivo has big gap between 1TB and 3TB boxes some similar with the iPhones and iPads 16gb, 32gb and 64gb capacity.

Other thing is about the hard drive warranty that is the most fail apart, so the return will be faster with the hard drive manufacturer, overall I will spend my money in extra years warranty with Tivo.

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Old 12-10-2013, 12:46 AM   #1503
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If you look on ebay you can get the 3TB for under $120. I got mine for $67 since nobody bid on it.
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Old 12-10-2013, 03:00 AM   #1504
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Nope....T10 for the drive mounting as well these days
As nooneuknow already explained, T10 for bracket to case, and T15 for bracket to drive. It has always been like that since Series1.
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Old 12-10-2013, 03:26 AM   #1505
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As nooneuknow already explained, T10 for bracket to case, and T15 for bracket to drive. It has always been like that since Series1.
That's what I thought (it's been this way all the way back to the S1), but not ever owning anything older than a HD, I didn't want to make that statement.

Thanks for the clarification, that all TiVo tinkering folk should have T10 and T15 drivers or bits for a multi-driver.
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Old 12-10-2013, 05:00 AM   #1506
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As nooneuknow already explained, T10 for bracket to case, and T15 for bracket to drive. It has always been like that since Series1.
I don't think I've ever had to use a T-15 on an S3, and I'm pretty sure I've never had to use one on an S2 either.

You need a T-8 for that one power supply screw on the S3s, though.
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Old 12-10-2013, 10:20 AM   #1507
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I don't think I've ever had to use a T-15 on an S3, and I'm pretty sure I've never had to use one on an S2 either.

You need a T-8 for that one power supply screw on the S3s, though.
The hard drive and fan screws are T-15 but a T-10 may catch enough to work on these T-15 screws but it not the best way to do that, like using a too small # 1 Phillips driver on a #2 Phillips screw.
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Old 12-10-2013, 10:44 AM   #1508
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I have a precision screw driver set with small philips and flat heads. Can those be used or just the T8 and T10 to open up the plus?
The T-10 I use is about 6" long, including the handle, which is about 3/4" across.

Anything smaller probably wouldn't give me the leverage I want, even if I wasn't compensating for the tip being entirely unsuitable.
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Old 12-10-2013, 10:52 AM   #1509
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Steve, Thanks for the reply. Appreciate that. Mike
You can use WinMFS on a PC running Windows XP or newer and upgrade a Series 3 (648, 652, or 658) to as big as 2TB, and make a truncated backup as well, which jmfs won't do.
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Old 12-10-2013, 10:55 AM   #1510
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The hard drive and fan screws are T-15 but a T-10 may catch enough to work on these T-15 screws but it not the best way to do that, like using a too small # 1 Phillips driver on a #2 Phillips screw.
Forgot about the fans.

For those I use my entire other Torx driver, a T-20.

But the 10 works on the drive mounting screws just fine, at least on my S2s and S3s.

Right now I'm trying to remember where I misplaced my S1s.
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Old 12-10-2013, 06:17 PM   #1511
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I am a newcomer to this community so if my question has already been answered, please excuse the repetition. I activated my Roamio Plus last weekend and have ordered a 3 TB replacement drive. The advice seems to be to wait at least 90 days before cracking the box. I'm concerned about transferring accumulated programs and SPs to the new drive. How best to do that? I have looked online at kmttg and while the introduction explains what it does, there are no step-by-step instructions. Can the transfers be best accomplished with kmttg and, if so, can someone point me in the direction of how to use it?
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Old 12-10-2013, 07:41 PM   #1512
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Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
Actually, I verified this morning that while the case screw is T10, and so are the three that hold the drive brackets to the case, the screws holding the brackets to the drive are T15, but can be easily done with a T10 that has no wear-down. I noticed they felt a bit looser, so I grabbed a T15 and it was snug (as in any more snug and that T15 bit would've needed some persuading to fit).

This was the base Roamio, but I figure all that will be different with the Plus/Pro is four screws to mount the drive brackets to the case, as opposed to three (educated guess).

YMMV, and I'd use the right tool for the job, if you have it. Some will say if you don't have the right tool, then go get it (which is my usual position).
Well, if mine were T15 they sure hid it well. Didn't try a T15 bit when the T10 I had in hand appeared to fit perfectly. Three different Plus boxes.
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Old 12-10-2013, 07:46 PM   #1513
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I am a newcomer to this community so if my question has already been answered, please excuse the repetition. I activated my Roamio Plus last weekend and have ordered a 3 TB replacement drive. The advice seems to be to wait at least 90 days before cracking the box. I'm concerned about transferring accumulated programs and SPs to the new drive. How best to do that? I have looked online at kmttg and while the introduction explains what it does, there are no step-by-step instructions. Can the transfers be best accomplished with kmttg and, if so, can someone point me in the direction of how to use it?
Don't know why you'd wait 90 days other than out of some misguided sense of warranty concern. Best practice, imo, is to swap out the drive before first firing the box up. Keeps the original otb blank. Absent that, just put it in now..
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Old 12-10-2013, 07:57 PM   #1514
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Don't know why you'd wait 90 days other than out of some misguided sense of warranty concern. Best practice, imo, is to swap out the drive before first firing the box up. Keeps the original otb blank. Absent that, just put it in now..
The warranty concern is far from "misguided". TiVo knows if you replace the drive and could legally refuse to honor the warranty if they so desire.
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Old 12-10-2013, 08:30 PM   #1515
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The warranty concern is far from "misguided". TiVo knows if you replace the drive and could legally refuse to honor the warranty if they so desire.
Amen. They also are not obliged to provide technical support for a device the customer, or an unauthorized party, has modified. While reports of this happening are scarce, there have been a few "not so bright" people who told the CS Rep they replaced the drive, and a few who got a CS Rep that looked at the logs, noticed it, and denied technical support.

It's a real pet-peeve of mine when I see posts that say "Don't worry about it. If you have any problems, just slap the original drive back in and you will have no issues." - This may often be a true, based on that person's experience, statement. Yet, there is no guarantee it will hold true for every person, every time. TiVo can crack down, any time they please. They will still have copies of the logs on their servers, that they can review, in order to look for tampering. If they got really proactive, they could have a program look for, and flag, units that ever had anything except the original drive installed. This would make it impossible to sneak the tampering past them.

TiVo's policies/TOS agreements include the language that gives them the right to refuse service and support due to tampering, of any nature. It just has been something we have been lucky they have not been strictly enforcing, YET.

All that said, I've chosen the base Roamio due to it having the ability to support OTA, should I need to go without cable, or cablecards become impossible to get anymore. At the same time, 500GB is NOT enough space, so I've installed 2TB drives that I already had bought before the Roamio was even released. The reward outweighs the risks for me, easily. But, that is my own informed decision to make, not one anybody should tell me is risk-free.
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Old 12-10-2013, 09:08 PM   #1516
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The warranty concern is far from "misguided". TiVo knows if you replace the drive and could legally refuse to honor the warranty if they so desire.
Thanks for the advice. I'm inclined to agree that there's no down side to waiting the 90 days provided content on the original drive can be easily transferred to the new one. Any ideas on that? Is kmttg the best way to go and, if so, how is that done?
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Old 12-10-2013, 09:18 PM   #1517
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Well, if mine were T15 they sure hid it well. Didn't try a T15 bit when the T10 I had in hand appeared to fit perfectly. Three different Plus boxes.
Great... So it worked for you (or fooled you). If you have the right tool for the job, you should use it. TiVo has been using the same fasteners for mounting drives to the brackets for generations. Sometimes they are manufactured on the loose-end of acceptable, sometimes on the tight-end of acceptable. I have some here, obviously from another batch, that a T10 will slip inside of with two fingers and no effort, I have some that a T10 would "work" on, if little torque is needed to loosen, and care is taken while tightening. It doesn't change that they are T15 and the T15 bit, or driver, is the correct tool for the job.

Why encourage somebody who may have a cheap, or worn-down, T10 bit/driver to use it? What is the point in that?

When you work in any field that requires the repairing/replacing of things, you get a natural feeling for when you are using a bit that is a size too small.

As for the general population, many/most people don't even realize there are multiple sizes of Phillips fastener heads, just as are there multiple sizes of flat ones. The list of all the fasteners that can be removed or installed with the wrong tool is virtually endless, which is why I'm not listing them all. A 13mm nut is so close to a 1/2" one, most mechanics won't dig for one socket if they have the other already in hand, or on their bench. At the same time, they don't use a Phillips head on a posi-drive fastener, or the other way around, nor does one who takes pride in their work use an adjustable wrench on every nut and bolt, just because it fits.

A while back, you asked me what my "sudden problem with you" was. I replied that I "didn't have one", and I was simply presenting facts that had been left out of a topic. Can you honestly tell me a T15 bit/driver does not fit the fastener? If not, the facts are that even your fasteners are T15 and a T15 tool is the correct one, making the T10 tool an incorrect tool. Let's not confuse those who don't know better, please.
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Old 12-10-2013, 09:33 PM   #1518
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Thanks for the advice. I'm inclined to agree that there's no down side to waiting the 90 days provided content on the original drive can be easily transferred to the new one. Any ideas on that? Is kmttg the best way to go and, if so, how is that done?
Since you can't just clone the data from drive to drive when you do swap drives, you'll have to copy any recordings with TiVo Desktop or kmttg (or whatever utility does the job the way you prefer). The problem area is content your cable provider may flag as "protected". Protected content can not be moved from the drive it is on, at this time, with any known utility. Somebody is working on a tool for this, to clone the drive contents, then expand the capacity (since the Roamio won't do it for you), but they say it will take months to get it to the point of testing by the public.

Season Passes can be backed up and then restored with kmttg. TiVo has an online Season Pass Manager (I call it SP "Mangler", since it copies them in a random order). The TiVo tool can only work between two distinct TiVos. You can't use it for a drive swap in the same unit, unless you use it to shuffle them to another unit first, then use it to shuffle them back again.

As I tested for myself, NOTHING is preserved, if you set things up, then upgrade the drive. The only thing you don't have to repeat is the TiVo software update, since the OS is stored in flash memory now.
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Old 12-10-2013, 10:08 PM   #1519
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Thanks for the advice. I'm inclined to agree that there's no down side to waiting the 90 days provided content on the original drive can be easily transferred to the new one. Any ideas on that?
Some things of which you you need to be aware. Any content that is marked "Copy Protected" cannot be transferred. Some cable companies mark most, if not all content this way. TWC is particularly egregious. Most all of them do it for premium channels such as HBO and Showtime.

You'll also need something to get the recordings back to the TiVo. kmttg does not have that capability. I'd recommend you at least try pyTiVo if you have any PC skills at all. If not, you may want to go with TiVo Desktop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by telecomjd View Post
Is kmttg the best way to go and, if so, how is that done?
I'd recommend installing and "playing" with it. The built-in help is very good and there is an entire thread here devoted to support.

The main pyTvo thread is here.

One other factor you might take into consideration: If most or all your recordings are not copy protected and you have or can add sufficient drive space to your PC, then upgrading the drive in the TiVo is less urgent as you can "offload" the recordings to the PC. And who knows? The new "upgrade" tool might be ready by the time your warranty is up.
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Old 12-10-2013, 10:22 PM   #1520
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Some things of which you you need to be aware. Any content that is marked "Copy Protected" cannot be transferred. Some cable companies mark most, if not all content this way. TWC is particularly egregious. Most all of them do it for premium channels such as HBO and Showtime.

You'll also need something to get the recordings back to the TiVo. kmttg does not have that capability. I'd recommend you at least try pyTiVo if you have any PC skills at all. If not, you may want to go with TiVo Desktop.

I'd recommend installing and "playing" with it. The built-in help is very good and there is an entire thread here devoted to support.

The main pyTvo thread is here.

One other factor you might take into consideration: If most or all your recordings are not copy protected and you have or can add sufficient drive space to your PC, then upgrading the drive in the TiVo is less urgent as you can "offload" the recordings to the PC. And who knows? The new "upgrade" tool might be ready by the time your warranty is up.
Thanks to all for the very informative advice. It appears I have several alternatives and will have to experiment to see which is most suitable. Glad to have found this thread. Lots of good information from very knowledgeable people!
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Old 12-11-2013, 02:58 PM   #1521
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Amen. They also are not obliged to provide technical support for a device the customer, or an unauthorized party, has modified. While reports of this happening are scarce, there have been a few "not so bright" people who told the CS Rep they replaced the drive, and a few who got a CS Rep that looked at the logs, noticed it, and denied technical support.

It's a real pet-peeve of mine when I see posts that say "Don't worry about it. If you have any problems, just slap the original drive back in and you will have no issues." - This may often be a true, based on that person's experience, statement. Yet, there is no guarantee it will hold true for every person, every time. TiVo can crack down, any time they please. They will still have copies of the logs on their servers, that they can review, in order to look for tampering. If they got really proactive, they could have a program look for, and flag, units that ever had anything except the original drive installed. This would make it impossible to sneak the tampering past them.

TiVo's policies/TOS agreements include the language that gives them the right to refuse service and support due to tampering, of any nature. It just has been something we have been lucky they have not been strictly enforcing, YET.

All that said, I've chosen the base Roamio due to it having the ability to support OTA, should I need to go without cable, or cablecards become impossible to get anymore. At the same time, 500GB is NOT enough space, so I've installed 2TB drives that I already had bought before the Roamio was even released. The reward outweighs the risks for me, easily. But, that is my own informed decision to make, not one anybody should tell me is risk-free.
YMMV, but as someone who has had an expanded TiVo through multiple generations over the past 13 years, and who has seen the company be really respectful to a hacker community over those years, the reward was worth the risk to me as well.

There's no way in heck I would try to remove/replace three months of recordings via PyTiVo/Kmttg. Too much hassle/time. I saved $30, have a 1TB to use elsewhere if I want, and I cross my fingers there's not an issue.

If in any way you are squeamish about upgrading a Plus immediately, vs after the warranty period, I would recommend just spending the extra $30 and get the Pro.
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Old 12-11-2013, 06:15 PM   #1522
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YMMV, but as someone who has had an expanded TiVo through multiple generations over the past 13 years, and who has seen the company be really respectful to a hacker community over those years, the reward was worth the risk to me as well.

There's no way in heck I would try to remove/replace three months of recordings via PyTiVo/Kmttg. Too much hassle/time. I saved $30, have a 1TB to use elsewhere if I want, and I cross my fingers there's not an issue.

If in any way you are squeamish about upgrading a Plus immediately, vs after the warranty period, I would recommend just spending the extra $30 and get the Pro.
If you shop the website the difference between a Plus and a Pro is $200, not $30. If you know how to get a Pro for $429.99 plus service please share.

Personally, I rip the cover off of all of my TiVos and replace the drive before I even put batteries in the remote, but I do it eyes wide open. Pointing out possible pitfalls to that method is a good thing.

As you said, YMMV.
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Old 12-11-2013, 06:46 PM   #1523
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If you shop the website the difference between a Plus and a Pro is $200, not $30. If you know how to get a Pro for $429.99 plus service please share.

Personally, I rip the cover off of all of my TiVos and replace the drive before I even put batteries in the remote, but I do it eyes wide open. Pointing out possible pitfalls to that method is a good thing.

As you said, YMMV.
I think he was referring to the difference in price of purchasing a Plus and a 3TB drive vs. buying a Pro.

FWIW, you can get a Plus with a 3TB already installed for $569 from weaKnees. I find it interesting that they initially weren't going to carry the Pro since the only difference is stock drive size. Now they are carrying the Pro for $30 more than the Plus with the same drive configuration.
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Old 12-11-2013, 11:27 PM   #1524
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3tb

You can always get a Plus, and then wait until the 3tb's go down in price (ex:watch slickdeals for a really good deal)
I got a plus and so far have been fine on the 1TB (The Comcast X1 box I had only had 500gb, so this is 2x the space, and much less buggy)

If I start to run out of space, I'll look for a good deal on 3tb drives.
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Old 12-12-2013, 03:35 AM   #1525
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I think he was referring to the difference in price of purchasing a Plus and a 3TB drive vs. buying a Pro.
Duh.
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Old 12-12-2013, 08:26 AM   #1526
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Duh.

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Old 12-12-2013, 09:27 AM   #1527
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Rebate haters, please move along. For all others looking for a deal on a 3TB WD Red:

http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/hot-deals/1323768/
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Old 12-12-2013, 10:32 AM   #1528
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Rebate haters, please move along. For all others looking for a deal on a 3TB WD Red:

http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/hot-deals/1323768/
Don't make the mistake of buying a product with a rebate from TigerDirect because they are crooked, as I found out. The drives are shipped bare without the original retail packaging which is expressly required for the rebate, as the terms and conditions state.

I bought my 3TB WD Red from there on Nov. 21, 2013 and was one of many who were scammed by them. A little bit of research afterwards showed they have horrible ratings: http://www.resellerratings.com/store/Tiger_Direct

Their customer service department is awful because they advise you to submit the rebate anyway, but I called the company who handles the rebate and they stated the rebate will be 100% denied without the UPC from the box.

Bottom line, if you buy from TigerDirect don't expect to ever see the rebate.
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Old 12-12-2013, 12:17 PM   #1529
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I just bought a basic Roamio and I will eventually upgrade it past the 500gb HD.

I have an old Series 3 with either a 1tb or a 2tb drive, is there any reason I could not use this drive?

I would probably wipe it clean before I installed it just to be safe, the Series 3 doesn't have a high enough price on Ebay to even worry about keeping it intact......
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Old 12-12-2013, 12:24 PM   #1530
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Location: Hacienda Heights, CA (Los Angeles County)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Divilish View Post
I have an old Series 3 with either a 1tb or a 2tb drive, is there any reason I could not use this drive?

I would probably wipe it clean before I installed it just to be safe, the Series 3 doesn't have a high enough price on Ebay to even worry about keeping it intact......
The drive in your S3 will work fine but consider its age.
S3's w/lifetime are going for over $200 on Ebay.
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