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Old 12-07-2013, 12:03 AM   #61
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We were complaining about the lack of status postings on their site and that the DVR has some functionality loss that it doesn't need to have during a TiVo server outage...
I agree with both of these points, and I'm actively working to get them addressed.

--Margret
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Old 12-07-2013, 12:32 AM   #62
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I agree with both of these points, and I'm actively working to get them addressed.

--Margret
Thank you. Glad I just invested in a new setup of Roamio's. All is good.
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Old 12-07-2013, 10:49 AM   #63
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I've had TiVo's (S2, HD, S3, Premiere, Premiere XL4, Roamio Pro) since 2000 and I've only had 2 to crash because of hardware failures. I haven't experienced many bugs with them. Maybe I'm just lucky.
I never said they were showstopper bugs, just that by all reports (and my own observances) it's common for them to break as much stuff as they fix with every release. I agree that most of them are just needless annoyances and head-shakers, kind of what the OP is complaining about.

The bottom line IMO is that without any retail competition Tivo has nobody to push them to do better, so they ignore or can't implement what many of us here would consider to be basic fixes and improvements.
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Old 12-07-2013, 11:11 AM   #64
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Seriously you should have read my earlier posts in this thread. Shoot from the hip much?

YES !!!! and I love doing it!!!!!

Listen at the end of the day all this is, is a device. Nothing more nothing less and I for one could care less if I didn't ever use Tivo again until they fix there stuff or at least they are up front about it so we know what to expect.
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Old 12-07-2013, 12:39 PM   #65
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The bottom line IMO is that without any retail competition Tivo has nobody to push them to do better, so they ignore or can't implement what many of us here would consider to be basic fixes and improvements.
Direct retail competition is low, for sure. However, that is not where TiVo is looking for growth, and there is a ton of competition to get in with being the default DVR for a cableco. So, they certainly do have a push to improve from market forces, just not as directly from consumers.
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Old 12-07-2013, 12:46 PM   #66
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Seriously you should have read my earlier posts in this thread. Shoot from the hip much?
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YES !!!! and I love doing it!!!!!
........
Well too bad --- usually results in wildly inaccurate shots (as in this case).
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Old 12-08-2013, 10:40 PM   #67
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YES !!!! and I love doing it!!!!!

Listen at the end of the day all this is, is a device. Nothing more nothing less and I for one could care less if I didn't ever use Tivo again until they fix there stuff or at least they are up front about it so we know what to expect.
If you really thought a TiVo was just a device and you could care less about it you wouldn't be posting on the TiVo forum, right? I mean when's the last time you posted on the the Proctor Silex Forum because your toaster didn't pop your toast up burning it?

Hopefully December's update fixes most of the annoying bugs. I've no doubt getting software ready for the Roamio launch combined with rolling out OOH streaming has taxed the software group. Bugs are going to happen - it's just a fact of developing software.
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Old 12-09-2013, 12:34 AM   #68
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Early adopters always experience bugs. If you want a more solid product, always wait until they've been out for a while.
yeah, early versions of Cadillacs, Suburbans, Range Rovers always break down, crash and burn more often. It's the way of things.....
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Old 12-09-2013, 04:58 AM   #69
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........
Listen at the end of the day all this is, is a device. Nothing more nothing less and I for one could care less if I didn't ever use Tivo again until they fix there stuff or at least they are up front about it so we know what to expect.
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If you really thought a TiVo was just a device and you could care less about it you wouldn't be posting on the TiVo forum, right? I mean when's the last time you posted on the the Proctor Silex Forum because your toaster didn't pop your toast up burning it?
...........
He, He. You've got to realize this forum provides a healthy(?) emotional (rather than logical) outlet for some posters.
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Old 12-09-2013, 06:12 AM   #70
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yeah, early versions of Cadillacs, Suburbans, Range Rovers always break down, crash and burn more often. It's the way of things.....
Yes, they call that a recall and people get their stuff fixed or refunded. I don't see Tivo doing that.
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Old 12-09-2013, 08:05 AM   #71
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Yes, they call that a recall and people get their stuff fixed or refunded. I don't see Tivo doing that.
So many perfect companies out there and then there's that rascally Tivo. Go figure!
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Old 12-09-2013, 08:15 AM   #72
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I don't remember TiVo having any life threatening issues, despite the claims that are often produced on these pages.
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Old 12-09-2013, 10:35 AM   #73
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He, He. You've got to realize this forum provides a healthy(?) emotional (rather than logical) outlet for some posters.
Really? Who might some examples be?
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Old 12-09-2013, 10:52 AM   #74
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So many perfect companies out there and then there's that rascally Tivo. Go figure!
Well somebody has to be the problem child to give Microsoft a run for their money. Tivo might as well!
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Old 12-10-2013, 04:24 AM   #75
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Thank you for taking the time to respond, Margret. I truly appreciate that there's someone in upper management at Tivo taking the time to respond to the problems Tivo customers are having.

While I deeply appreciate you addressing the specific problems customers are having, my main complaint was with the overall lack of communication internally and with customers and the overall structure of the customer support system, which I have described in my previous posts. I will respond to you in an email to discuss this further with you.

As I said earlier, I want to see Tivo succeed and I do this because the problems and solutions seem very obvious to me. I know it will be challenging to implement a change in structure, but with the initiative and the will, it will be beneficial to everyone involved.

Thank you for taking the time to address my concerns!
Considering all the public exposure this topic has had in this thread, can you fill us in on any specific changes being considered by TiVo as a result of your discussions with them?
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Old 12-10-2013, 04:46 AM   #76
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Considering all the public exposure this topic has had in this thread, can you fill us in on any specific changes being considered by TiVo as a result of your discussions with them?
Hi dlfl. I'm not in a position to answer that question. That question should be addressed to Margret. I made some suggestions in this thread and in my email to her. It's up to management to decide if they are good ones or not.
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Old 12-10-2013, 06:42 AM   #77
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While I sincerely appreciate Margret’s presence here, one has to respectfully question why a Vice President of Design & Engineering is addressing specific problems and complaints here at Tivo Community and posting updates on Twitter. This is extremely inefficient and it is indicative of structural problems within Tivo, Inc. Assuming that it is a separate department, this should be the job of Customer Support and it shouldn’t be happening at Tivo Community and Twitter, it should be happening at tivo.com. Margret should be coming here for design suggestions and ideas, not to report bugs back to her engineering team. The fact that she is doing this just shows that customers are not having their problems properly addressed through phone support and at tivo.com. The reason this is happening is because the proper structure isn’t in place at Customer Support and at tivo.com to allow this to happen, which is why I suggested a central organized database of Known Issues, as opposed to the plethora of support articles on tivo.com that are completely disorganized and impossible to navigate.

Once an existing structure is in place, it takes a tremendous amount of effort and resources to change it, which is why this problem has persisted for at least the ten years that I’ve been a customer. It takes someone at the top, presumably the CEO, to realize this and say, “this isn’t working, we need to change things.”
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Old 12-10-2013, 06:48 AM   #78
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While I sincerely appreciate Margret’s presence here, one has to respectfully question why a Vice President of Design & Engineering is addressing specific problems and complaints here at Tivo Community and posting updates on Twitter. This is extremely inefficient and it is indicative of structural problems within Tivo, Inc. Assuming that it is a separate department, this should be the job of Customer Support and it shouldn’t be happening at Tivo Community and Twitter, it should be happening at tivo.com. Margret should be coming here for design suggestions and ideas, not to report bugs back to her engineering team. The fact that she is doing this just shows that customers are not having their problems properly addressed through phone support and at tivo.com. The reason this is happening is because the proper structure isn’t in place at Customer Support and at tivo.com to allow this to happen, ”
I tend to agree with you but propose that perhaps it is like this because they are understaffed and Margret has taken this on by herself (on her own) to try and improve things for customers. It could be her hands are tied and can't hire anyone else and/or can't get other departments to cooperate or follow-through and is doing what she can, even though it means doing it herself. She might even be going around prevailing policy.

Such business politics are not uncommon... in fact, I know them all too well. So I can be critical of TiVo as a whole and yet still praise Margret for what she is trying to do (and actually getting done).
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Old 12-10-2013, 06:57 AM   #79
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I tend to agree with you but propose that perhaps it is like this because they are understaffed and Margret has taken this on by herself (on her own) to try and improve things for customers. It could be her hands are tied and can't hire anyone else and/or can't get other departments to cooperate or follow-through and is doing what she can, even though it means doing it herself. She might even be going around prevailing policy.

Such business politics are not uncommon... in fact, I know them all too well. So I can be critical of TiVo as a whole and yet still praise Margret for what she is trying to do (and actually getting done).
I agree with everything you said and I praise Margret's efforts too, which is why I addressed this thread to the CEO. It is his responsibility to make this happen.

I have worked for enough large organizations in my lifetime to know that problems, lack of communication, politics and bureaucracy exist in every large organization, whether it's public or private, government or corporation. It's up to the person at the top to fix the problems and cut through the bureaucracy.
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Old 12-10-2013, 08:19 AM   #80
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While I sincerely appreciate Margret’s presence here, one has to respectfully question why a Vice President of Design & Engineering is addressing specific problems and complaints here at Tivo Community and posting updates on Twitter. This is extremely inefficient and it is indicative of structural problems within Tivo, Inc. Assuming that it is a separate department, this should be the job of Customer Support and it shouldn’t be happening at Tivo Community and Twitter, it should be happening at tivo.com. Margret should be coming here for design suggestions and ideas, not to report bugs back to her engineering team. The fact that she is doing this just shows that customers are not having their problems properly addressed through phone support and at tivo.com. The reason this is happening is because the proper structure isn’t in place at Customer Support and at tivo.com to allow this to happen, which is why I suggested a central organized database of Known Issues, as opposed to the plethora of support articles on tivo.com that are completely disorganized and impossible to navigate.

Once an existing structure is in place, it takes a tremendous amount of effort and resources to change it, which is why this problem has persisted for at least the ten years that I’ve been a customer. It takes someone at the top, presumably the CEO, to realize this and say, “this isn’t working, we need to change things.”
Then I still don't understand why you chose to post your letter here rather than mail it directly to Tom Rogers. Frankly I suspect you were (as I said earlier in more dramatic words) trying to whip up political pressure from Tivo forum readers. If your answer is something like "I doubted it would ever be read by him" then you have to acknowledge that Margret has aided your purpose by getting it some attention within TiVo at higher levels, despite your criticism of the appropriateness of her role on the forum

In your suggestions for "structural" changes in customer support, I believe you:

1. Underestimate the technical complexities of the range of problems that Tivo's can experience. Each of the ten or so major cable MSO's presents different issues and dealing with CableCARD and Tuning Adapters while being at the mercy of the cable operator's generally poor and unmotivated support is a major challenge.

2. Overestimate the resources that a relatively small company such as Tivo can afford to put into customer support -- and into engineering field work to address problems specific to a particular cable system thousands of miles from Tivo's location.

Poor customer support is not a problem specific to Tivo. For a product that is technically sophisticated it is a questionable that a CSR staff having the knowledge we would like them to have is practically achievable even if massive resources are available for salaries and training. If a company Tivo's size were to spend such resources, the price of Tivo's might have to double. And the intelligent database that would be smart enough to make up for CSR's lack of detailed technical knowledge would be either very costly to develop or impossible.

Just for the sake of discussion, who can provide examples of companies no larger than Tivo (in terms of employees and sales) -- and selling a consumer-priced product as technically complex as Tivo -- that has much better customer service?
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Old 12-10-2013, 08:47 AM   #81
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Then I still don't understand why you chose to post your letter here rather than mail it directly to Tom Rogers. Frankly I suspect you were (as I said earlier in more dramatic words) trying to whip up political pressure from Tivo forum readers. If your answer is something like "I doubted it would ever be read by him" then you have to acknowledge that Margret has aided your purpose by getting it some attention within TiVo at higher levels, despite your criticism of the appropriateness of her role on the forum

In your suggestions for "structural" changes in customer support, I believe you:

1. Underestimate the technical complexities of the range of problems that Tivo's can experience. Each of the ten or so major cable MSO's presents different issues and dealing with CableCARD and Tuning Adapters while being at the mercy of the cable operator's generally poor and unmotivated support is a major challenge.

2. Overestimate the resources that a relatively small company such as Tivo can afford to put into customer support -- and into engineering field work to address problems specific to a particular cable system thousands of miles from Tivo's location.

Poor customer support is not a problem specific to Tivo. For a product that is technically sophisticated it is a questionable that a CSR staff having the knowledge we would like them to have is practically achievable even if massive resources are available for salaries and training. If a company Tivo's size were to spend such resources, the price of Tivo's might have to double. And the intelligent database that would be smart enough to make up for CSR's lack of detailed technical knowledge would be either very costly to develop or impossible.

Just for the sake of discussion, who can provide examples of companies no larger than Tivo (in terms of employees and sales) -- and selling a consumer-priced product as technically complex as Tivo -- that has much better customer service?
I agree that poor customer support is not specific to Tivo. One only has to call their local cable company to confirm that. Saying all companies offer poor customer support is not an excuse to offer poor support.

I made one suggestion that I said would be a huge timesaver for everyone, would result in a huge cost savings for Tivo in terms of wasted phone support time, and would take very few resources to put in place– create an organized list of Known Issues (like the Gmail example I gave earlier) that was easily accessible on tivo.com for everyone to see. That way, someone wondering why they were getting two recordings every time they padded a season pass recording wouldn't have to call up phone support, post to a forum, read through a VP's Twitter feed, or search through hundreds of support articles on tivo.com to know that it was a known problem being worked on. They wouldn't have to fight with Level 1 phone support to make sure it got reported to Level 2 support to make sure that they knew about it.
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Old 12-10-2013, 09:10 AM   #82
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I agree with both of these points, and I'm actively working to get them addressed.

--Margret
At the same time, could you please look into why..... for weeks..... the telephone support people were telling me adamantly that the C133 errors were DEFINITELY NOT on the Tivo side? This caused quite a bit of misunderstanding, frustration and anger directed at Tivo because it flew in the face of every indication I had at my disposal (speed tests, traceroutes and ping plots) that said there was NOTHING AT ALL wrong with my LAN, or the internet in general. And worse, it gave me the impression when I did call about it that Tivo was NOT looking into it.... just telling me to reboot everything and "see if that fixes it". Or worse, open a range of ports and permanently KEEP THEM OPEN. An open invitation to port scanners......

Paul
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Old 12-10-2013, 09:22 AM   #83
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At the same time, could you please look into why..... for weeks..... the telephone support people were telling me adamantly that the C133 errors were DEFINITELY NOT on the Tivo side? This caused quite a bit of misunderstanding, frustration and anger directed at Tivo because it flew in the face of every indication I had at my disposal (speed tests, traceroutes and ping plots) that said there was NOTHING AT ALL wrong with my LAN, or the internet in general. And worse, it gave me the impression when I did call about it that Tivo was NOT looking into it.... just telling me to reboot everything and "see if that fixes it". Or worse, open a range of ports and permanently KEEP THEM OPEN. An open invitation to port scanners......

Paul
This is exactly the kind of issue that users like me are having that wastes our time, and countless hours of Tivo support employees' time, costing the company money. All of this could have been solved if some sort of central organized list of known issues was collected, organized, constantly updated and shared by a support supervisor.
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Old 12-10-2013, 09:26 AM   #84
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....... Saying all companies offer poor customer support is not an excuse to offer poor support.
............
I didn't say that but I am awaiting examples of companies of the size of TiVo (or smaller) that sell a consumer-priced, highly technically complex product, that have much better CS.

The "excuses" may well be the factors I discussed in my previous post. A combination of technical complexities and limited CS resources (without overpricing the product).
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Old 12-10-2013, 09:46 AM   #85
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I addressed this thread to the CEO. It is his responsibility to make this happen.

I have worked for enough large organizations in my lifetime to know that problems, lack of communication, politics and bureaucracy exist in every large organization, whether it's public or private, government or corporation. It's up to the person at the top to fix the problems and cut through the bureaucracy.
And when you worked for these large organizations can you give us some specifics of your communication with the CEO and his response to being told by you that's it's *his* responsibility to make it happen?

I ask because I work for a ~250,000+ organization and the coffee here it terrible. I wanted to make the CEO aware that it's his responsibility to fix this and make me happy. Also I have about twenty other things this company is doing wrong.

Should I just contact directly or should I take out an ad in the NY Times with an open letter addressed to him?
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Old 12-10-2013, 09:52 AM   #86
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Well, it is clear that TiVo did not have a CSR disaster plan for this unfortunate event. Things like that are easy to pick out when looking backwards, but we don't know if that lack of preparation was based upon imprudence or something else.
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Old 12-10-2013, 10:07 AM   #87
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This conversation is reminding me of an article I read the other day.

"Upsetting the status quo — or upending it — is always a radical proposition and is often an unpopular one, sometimes even among those who suffer under the entrenched system."

"Those who can’t imagine change reveal the deficits of their imaginations, not the difficulty of change."

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/07/op...ore-dying.html

I've made my position known. I don't really wish to debate this anymore. I would rather spend time watching my Tivo then talking about it! Thank you to everyone who participated in this conversation.
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Old 12-10-2013, 10:10 AM   #88
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I ask because I work for a ~250,000+ organization and the coffee here it terrible. I wanted to make the CEO aware that it's his responsibility to fix this and make me happy. Also I have about twenty other things this company is doing wrong.

Should I just contact directly or should I take out an ad in the NY Times with an open letter addressed to him?
Sure, and you'll probably end up much more happy with your coffee, cause it'll be coffee you brew at home before heading for the unemployment office to collect your check.
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Old 12-10-2013, 11:40 AM   #89
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Still don't see how you think addressing a letter to the CEO on a non officially affiliated forum will be seen by him. Yes, Margret is here, but in no official capacity. If you expect Tom to respond, try holding your breath/

But hey, keep tilting at windmills and thinking you're being some unsung hero that is being misunderstood.

Let us know when you file the class action suit, those are fun too.
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Old 12-10-2013, 12:19 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by crxssi View Post
I tend to agree with you but propose that perhaps it is like this because they are understaffed and Margret has taken this on by herself (on her own) to try and improve things for customers. It could be her hands are tied and can't hire anyone else and/or can't get other departments to cooperate or follow-through and is doing what she can, even though it means doing it herself. She might even be going around prevailing policy.
Or maybe Margret just enjoys interacting with us, a delightfully enthusiastic subset of TiVo's customer base. (Don't laugh. It could happen.)
L David Matheny is offline   Reply With Quote
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