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Old 12-06-2013, 05:54 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by jwbelcher View Post
To be fair, TiVo hasn't used real-time services in products dating back to 2000 / 2001. Referencing dates like those are disingenuous. You would never be aware of a 18 hour hiccup back then.
You have a good point there. But let's look at the nuts and bolts a little bit closer. When did TiVo start using the real-time services? When the premiere's hit the market? Just for laughs and chuckles I'm going to assume it was on the premiere's for the point I'd like to make, I don't think the TiVo-HD's had anything along those lines.

A quick look at wikipedia tells me that the premiere was released to the public on March 28th, 2010. I believe all the real-time services were on them at launch, but I could be wrong. So well over 1000 days of these real-time services being in use. This event is the only one of it's kind that I can recall.

I believe the outage lasted less than 24 hours but I wasn't keeping that close a watch on my Roamio. If it was, that's less than 1 day out of at least 1000. So I think my point is still quite valid when we look at the availability of the mothership being 99.9%. It's better than Ivory Soap!!
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Old 12-06-2013, 08:12 AM   #32
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Is no one even going to bring up the fact that this "Open Letter" is posted to a fan site and will never be read by Tom Rogers or TiVo Management?
If that is true (and it may well be) then it is a sign if a much deeper problem.... a company cut off from its users. I find this more and more these days, especially with Chinese manufacturers. I hope it is not true of a homegrown one like Tivo.

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Old 12-06-2013, 08:25 AM   #33
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As for the outage yesterday, how difficult could it be to put a message on Tivo.com's website saying that there was an outage with Tivo's servers that would affect service. It would have taken someone 15 minutes to do this and could have saved Customer Support countless hours of support time answering phone calls from confused customers.
In fairness to Tivo, that is exactly what the text of the C133 error states, on your TV screen. There is a temporary problem with the TIVO SERVICE.

The problem is that until the other day, all calls to Tivo support to report C133 errors resulted in us users being told it was definitely NOT the Tivo service..... it was our LOCAL NETWORK. And that resulted in endless rounds of rebooting everything, only to find the problem was not resolved.

If the text of the C133 onscreen error message was not being constantly contradicted by Tivo Support, we would all have relaxed and simply waited for the temporary outage to be resolved.

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Old 12-06-2013, 08:32 AM   #34
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I cannot imagine too many CEOs that are going around reading through fan sites.

We already have feedback that Tivo is implementing a status indication on their site.

Tivo is a public company, and IS in competition with others, thus has to keep a fine line of what they consider confidential and that which should be made public. In reality, we have been able to peek behind the curtain much more frequently of late, hopefully that will continue.

Roamio bug fixes have been extremely quick. Much faster than any other release I have witnessed. Unfortunate that they exist at all, and that some continue, but so far the release has been pretty great with getting these in the cue. I may finally become a "fast follower" on the Roamio instead of my normal 6-12 month wait to make sure the bugs are cleaned out.
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Old 12-06-2013, 08:46 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by pgoelz View Post
If that is true (and it may well be) then it is a sign if a much deeper problem.... a company cut off from its users. I find this more and more these days, especially with Chinese manufacturers. I hope it is not true of a homegrown one like Tivo.

Paul
I don't agree, the CEO's in most companies are not going to be out surfing fan sites to get feedback. They're going to task their customer service and technical support departments for feedback. While tivocommunity.com is a popular website for TiVo customers is not an official support channel and has never tried to be. Tom Rogers MIGHT see this "Open Letter", but probably only if TivoMargaret or someone like her takes the time to show him.

If the intent is to truly get this letter on his desk, a non-affiliated website is the wrong place to put it. Type it up, print it out, put in an envelope with a stamp and mail it. Or try to find his email address and send it that way. As others have said in this thread, we enjoy the participation from TiVo employees here on a fairly regular basis, but I would find it very surprising if that is actually part of their official duties. It's a bonus that I've never seen any other tech company do in a similar fashion.
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Old 12-06-2013, 10:11 AM   #36
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Does anybody think my suggestion for a central database for known issues that all customer support employees can consult is a good (if not obvious) one?
I think TiVo has this in place already, or at least they have a system that could handle it. Trouble is getting the customer support staff to actually use it. Instead, they have you jump through hoops to make sure that whatever problem you're having is not on your end of things.

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As someone pointed out on a thread here, why isn't there a change log anywhere except here on Tivo Community that informs users when and what bugs have been fixed?
The change log we get here really isn't. TiVo doesn't always tell us *everything* that gets changed. They just give us highlights, and THAT didn't happen here before the Premiere came into being. Before that, all we got was a message on the Tivo that the TiVo Service was updated, and that only listed new features.

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I believe the outage lasted less than 24 hours but I wasn't keeping that close a watch on my Roamio. If it was, that's less than 1 day out of at least 1000. So I think my point is still quite valid when we look at the availability of the mothership being 99.9%. It's better than Ivory Soap!!
IIRC, TiVo had an outage once when the Premieres where still fairly new.
That's when everyone noticed how dependent the HDUI is of the TiVo servers.

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If the intent is to truly get this letter on his desk, a non-affiliated website is the wrong place to put it. Type it up, print it out, put in an envelope with a stamp and mail it. Or try to find his email address and send it that way.
Yep, this was what I was going to suggest. I believe it would be far more effective than posting it here.
Heck, I even think posting it to the "official" TiVo forum would be more effective than posting it here.
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Old 12-06-2013, 10:15 AM   #37
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Or TivoMargaret might, in the course of doing her job well, decide that calling Tom's attention to this post would be a waste of his time, since it's not a constructive criticism -- rather just a rant that assumes the worst about Tivo management execution, without really knowing what's going on inside Tivo. Just the fact you have many complaints about a product doesn't prove they can be blamed on poor management.
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Old 12-06-2013, 11:09 AM   #38
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.....It's better than Ivory Soap!!
Nothing's better than Ivory soap. It FLOATS.
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Old 12-06-2013, 12:19 PM   #39
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LOL ... hope that rant made you feel better (which is about all it could accomplish). Your comments quoted above provide the reality that undermines any logic in your position.

Tivo provides the best value you can find ---- for ten years!

This reminds me of the WalMart employees whining about what lousy low paying jobs they have. Meanwhile every time a new WalMart opens, offering 300 jobs, more than 10,000 people apply for them.

Nobody forces you to use Tivo (or to work at WalMart). If you can do better somewhere else --- do it!

You presume to know better ways to run Tivo. Whether the changes you request would actually result in a better Tivo (from the viewpoints of tivo employees, stockholders and consumers) is highly questionable. They might just result in overpriced products, falling sales and extinction. You don't get to decide this, and aren't in a position to know the answer.
Wow you must be a Tivo Fan boy and think Tivo can do no wrong! Seriously after all the crap Tivo has put it's customers through this is your comment? This is Tivo's 5th generation Tivo by now one would think Tivo has learned from it's past mistakes. I for one would of dumped Tivo if I wasn't in a year contract with then. I been a Tivo user for years and have never felt so much pain with the past models as compared to the Roamino Line. Tivo has turned to Sh*t in my opinion. But to each its own I guess.
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Old 12-06-2013, 12:37 PM   #40
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Or TivoMargaret might, in the course of doing her job well, decide that calling Tom's attention to this post would be a waste of his time, since it's not a constructive criticism -- rather just a rant that assumes the worst about Tivo management execution, without really knowing what's going on inside Tivo. Just the fact you have many complaints about a product doesn't prove they can be blamed on poor management.
+1 WAY

It's obvious with all that TiVo's accomplished in 2013 that management, and the company as a whole, is moving in the right direction.
  • MAR 2013 TiVo Mini released
  • AUG 2013 TiVo Roamio released
  • AUG 2013 TiVo/Opera announce partnership HTML5-based Opera TV platform & Store
  • SEP 2013 TiVo announces TiVo network PVR
  • OCT2013 TiVo releases Out-of-home streaming
  • OCT/NOV 2013 TiVo releases Fall update with support for older Series 4 Premieres!
  • NOV 2013 TiVo releases new TiVo Slide Pro Remote
  • 2013 MSO partnerships with Virgin Media, Mediacom, Atlantic Broadband, Midcontinent and GCI.

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Old 12-06-2013, 12:43 PM   #41
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Or TivoMargaret might, in the course of doing her job well, decide that calling Tom's attention to this post would be a waste of his time, since it's not a constructive criticism -- rather just a rant that assumes the worst about Tivo management execution, without really knowing what's going on inside Tivo. Just the fact you have many complaints about a product doesn't prove they can be blamed on poor management.
Aren't you missing the bigger picture on all the rants? It is not enough anymore just to provide a good product. Customer's want feedback from the management or whoever is responsible for communications to the customers. How do we really know that Tivo management really isn't screwed up but no one will say anything because of fear of loosing their job? For the amount of money that customers pay for these devices, we would like to see them work 95% of the time. (This would be called system redundancy for just in case this crap happens) I really do not think that is asking too much.

Now before someone comments on how they have never had a problem that is great for you but not for the person it is not working for. All anybody is asking for is a somewhat bug free experience and to talk not BS but talk to your customer. As far as the open letter is concern it should be the responsibility for Tivo to realize that not everybody is going to go to the official forum if they are not receiving good support from the official forum. If memory serves me correctly and I could be wrong on this but isn't Tivocommunity.com bigger then the official forum?

Tivo has the ability to wipe out negative comments if they don't like them but the Mod here could as well. The mods don't which gives these forums more openness so people can rant and praise Tivo equally.
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Old 12-06-2013, 01:04 PM   #42
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I been a Tivo user for years and have never felt so much pain with the past models as compared to the Roamino Line.
TiVo Roamio line only went on sale in September so how much pain could you have felt? From a DVR!? Unfortunately early adopters do pay the price for having the latest and greatest. I know that all too well from my iPhone 5S and iPad Air - four iOS 7 patch releases since September.

Hopefully December's TiVo software update fixes your problems.
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Old 12-06-2013, 01:14 PM   #43
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It exposed some weird restrictions. For example I tried to cancel a recording from my To Do List and it wouldn't let me because the server was down. WHy does it need to contact the server to cancel a recording? There was also no way to search so the only way to setup new recordings was to use the guide. It also blocked access to Netflix and Hulu.

Basically it demonstrated to a lot of people, including myself, how much the HDUI depends on that internet connection and we were caught off guard.
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Old 12-06-2013, 01:20 PM   #44
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Again, I posted here at Tivo Community out of desperation because there doesn't seem to be any way to directly contact executive management. After reading through some of the suggestions, I sent an email to Margret last night with my complaint. I have not heard back yet.

As stated earlier, it's atrocious that users have to rely on a 3rd party forum for decent support, a 3rd party website for server status and 3rd party software like PyTivo for reliable computer transfers. This is Tivo's job to provide these things for their customers.

To those who say I'm not offering any constructive criticism and that I'm just ranting, here's one extremely simple fix that would make me very happy - merely post on the support area of Tivo.com on one page a complete list of known problems that everyone can see. That way, all users would have to do is go to that area and see if their problem is on their end or is a known issue. This would save Tivo thousands of calls to customer support. It would make everyone including management aware of how buggy the units are, which would bring attention to the problems and would hopefully result in quicker fixes. It would also free users from having to scour through hundreds of posts on forums for information on problems. It would save Margret from having to post information here and on Twitter (where most people would not think to go for support updates), and it would save thousands of hours of everyone's time.
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Old 12-06-2013, 02:17 PM   #45
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To those who say I'm not offering any constructive criticism and that I'm just ranting, here's one extremely simple fix that would make me very happy - merely post on the support area of Tivo.com on one page a complete list of known problems that everyone can see.
Do you have any examples from companies that aren't open-source related of what that looks like?

I've spent the last few minutes googling around for a list like that for similar products (like AppleTV, Roku, Xbox, PlayStation, Western Digital LiveTV) and didn't come across anything.
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Old 12-06-2013, 02:32 PM   #46
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I sent an email to Margret last night with my complaint. I have not heard back yet.
You sent an email last night and it's currently noontime in California and the Chief Design Officer and VP hasn't replied, *yet*?! Seriously? She is under no obligation to reply to you and I'm almost certain she won't. Email doesn't scale well. Try twitter.

LadyBeryl ‏@LadyBeryl 4 Dec
@tivodesign Outages happen but a TiVo status webpage would have avoided the many hours customers spent debugging.

TiVo Margret Schmidt ‏@tivodesign 2:51 PM - 4 Dec 13
@LadyBeryl Yes, I'm working on it.

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Old 12-06-2013, 02:50 PM   #47
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sent an email to Margret last night with my complaint. I have not heard back yet.
I'd send an email and complain!! Or maybe an open letter to Margret?
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Old 12-06-2013, 03:15 PM   #48
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WE the PEOPLE - Your voice in our TiVo

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I'd send an email and complain!! Or maybe an open letter to Margret?
Or start a petition. Let's take back our government, I mean TiVo!!!!

https://petitions.tivo.whitehouse.gov/
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Old 12-06-2013, 03:29 PM   #49
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TiVo Roamio line only went on sale in September so how much pain could you have felt? From a DVR!? Unfortunately early adopters do pay the price for having the latest and greatest. I know that all too well from my iPhone 5S and iPad Air - four iOS 7 patch releases since September.

Hopefully December's TiVo software update fixes your problems.
You would be surprised when one of the staring features doesn't work and you get the run around from Tivo support of how it is your network causing the problem. Come to find out after jumping through all the hoops that it was on their end and not my network. Once again support was not willing to even entertain that the problem was with them but the customer is always wrong and not worth even remotely looking in to. The customer is not always wrong and sometimes we are correct.
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Old 12-06-2013, 03:43 PM   #50
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Do you have any examples from companies that aren't open-source related of what that looks like?

https://support.google.com/mail/know...es/14973?hl=en
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Old 12-06-2013, 03:52 PM   #51
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Wow you must be a Tivo Fan boy and think Tivo can do no wrong! Seriously after all the crap Tivo has put it's customers through this is your comment? ...... .
Seriously you should have read my earlier posts in this thread. Shoot from the hip much?
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Old 12-06-2013, 04:25 PM   #52
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You sent an email last night and it's currently noontime in California and the Chief Design Officer and VP hasn't replied, *yet*?! Seriously? She is under no obligation to reply to you and I'm almost certain she won't. Email doesn't scale well. Try twitter.
OMG, I love you all. (Even the grumpy ones. :-)

I responded to nyctwc this morning at…checking mail history…11:57am Pacific.

I always welcome email. I do read it. I *try* to make the time to respond.

The more specific the email (dates/times/photos/TSNs) the easier it is to track down problems and get them resolved.

So if there is something you need me to hear, send it my way: margret@tivo.com

I'll do my best to make things right.

--Margret
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Old 12-06-2013, 04:35 PM   #53
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OMG, I love you all. (Even the grumpy ones. :-)

I responded to nyctwc this morning at…checking mail history…11:57am Pacific.

I always welcome email. I do read it. I *try* to make the time to respond.

The more specific the email (dates/times/photos/TSNs) the easier it is to track down problems and get them resolved.


So if there is something you need me to hear, send it my way: margret@tivo.com

I'll do my best to make things right.

--Margret
Margret, you are a class act.
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Old 12-06-2013, 04:49 PM   #54
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OMG, I love you all. (Even the grumpy ones. :-)

I responded to nyctwc this morning at…checking mail history…11:57am Pacific.

I always welcome email. I do read it. I *try* to make the time to respond.

The more specific the email (dates/times/photos/TSNs) the easier it is to track down problems and get them resolved.

So if there is something you need me to hear, send it my way: margret@tivo.com

I'll do my best to make things right.

--Margret
That's what I'm talkin' about!

I would guess you have no objection to your response being made public. Assuming that's correct, the ball is in nyctwc's court now.
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Old 12-06-2013, 05:03 PM   #55
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OMG, I love you all. (Even the grumpy ones. :-)

I responded to nyctwc this morning at…checking mail history…11:57am Pacific.

I always welcome email. I do read it. I *try* to make the time to respond.

The more specific the email (dates/times/photos/TSNs) the easier it is to track down problems and get them resolved.

So if there is something you need me to hear, send it my way: margret@tivo.com

I'll do my best to make things right.

--Margret
Thank you for taking the time to respond, Margret. I truly appreciate that there's someone in upper management at Tivo taking the time to respond to the problems Tivo customers are having.

While I deeply appreciate you addressing the specific problems customers are having, my main complaint was with the overall lack of communication internally and with customers and the overall structure of the customer support system, which I have described in my previous posts. I will respond to you in an email to discuss this further with you.

As I said earlier, I want to see Tivo succeed and I do this because the problems and solutions seem very obvious to me. I know it will be challenging to implement a change in structure, but with the initiative and the will, it will be beneficial to everyone involved.

Thank you for taking the time to address my concerns!

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Old 12-06-2013, 05:46 PM   #56
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Been a TiVo user since 2001, I can't recall an outage like the recent one. So in 12 years they have one outage at the mothership and it creates mass-hysteria around here? Seems like a gross overreaction to me.
Very few were complaining about the actual outage.

We were complaining about the lack of status postings on their site and that the DVR has some functionality loss that it doesn't need to have during a TiVo server outage...
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Old 12-06-2013, 05:50 PM   #57
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Margret, you are a class act.
+1000

You go, girl!
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Old 12-06-2013, 07:04 PM   #58
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Margret, you are a class act.
No, well yes, but she's also a freakin' Saint!
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Old 12-06-2013, 07:22 PM   #59
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That's pretty cool.

Looking around on Google's other support pages (http://support.google.com), seems like they only put the "known issues" for their free services.

But it looks like if you own one of their physical devices (like a Nexus or a Chromecast), ran across an issue, and wanted to see if it on their "known list", I don't see where they provide that information.
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Old 12-06-2013, 07:56 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post
LOL, you haven't owned the same Tivos I have. Everyone is an early adopter/beta tester no matter how long you own the box. They are famous for breaking as much stuff as they fix with every software update.
I've had TiVo's (S2, HD, S3, Premiere, Premiere XL4, Roamio Pro) since 2000 and I've only had 2 to crash because of hardware failures. I haven't experienced many bugs with them. Maybe I'm just lucky.
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