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Old 11-23-2013, 08:47 PM   #121
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If you had bothered to read my post and the quote, I was referring to TiVo vs. a cable company DVR. TiVo isn't any cheaper than an MCE PC, in fact they are just about the same. The cable company DVR and TiVo are typically the same price around 30-40 months, so if you average out over 4-5 years, TiVo is a lot cheaper.

Well, anyone who claims MCE has an interface that's as good or better than TiVo certainly needs their head examined. And the remote. The peanut is WAY better than crappy MCE remotes.

So people should be blind to the options and not make informed decisions? How can an uninformed decision possibly be better than an informed decision? That's completely illogical.
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Old 11-24-2013, 07:30 AM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigg View Post
If you had bothered to read my post and the quote, I was referring to TiVo vs. a cable company DVR. TiVo isn't any cheaper than an MCE PC, in fact they are just about the same. The cable company DVR and TiVo are typically the same price around 30-40 months, so if you average out over 4-5 years, TiVo is a lot cheaper.
We weren't discussing cableco DVRs since we were talking about WMC in general. Tivo with lifetime will definitely be cheaper than the cableco DVR over the long haul. However, you have to factor in the cost of renting the cablecard since that's included in the DVR rental fee. Just about every provider has different fees for cablecards so you'd have to check with your local provider to make the informed comparison.

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Well, anyone who claims MCE has an interface that's as good or better than TiVo certainly needs their head examined. And the remote. The peanut is WAY better than crappy MCE remotes.
Anyone that claims A is better than B without providing any relevant data or proof is just blowing smoke. You haven't provided a single reference or link to back up any of the claims you've made. You can't provide them because they don't exist. Whether one UI is better than another is purely subjective and just a matter of personal preference.

When designing a UI you have to ask yourself several questions. Does it allow the user a simple and easy to understand interface to access the features he needs? Are all of the necessary features accessible? If so, then the UI has met the design criteria. I've simplified it a bit for my target audience, but I think you can understand what I'm saying. The WMC UI does what it was designed to do. It may not be as pretty as a Tivo UI, but it is functional and easy to navigate. Tivo has modified their UI with each new platform to where I had problems finding some of the menu items I needed. I'm all for improvement, but change just for the sake of change is no improvement at all.

Quote:
So people should be blind to the options and not make informed decisions? How can an uninformed decision possibly be better than an informed decision? That's completely illogical.
Making informed decisions based on fact is definitely the way to go. Making decisions based on the ravings of a madman is completely idiotic.
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Old 11-24-2013, 09:01 AM   #123
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Making informed decisions based on fact is definitely the way to go. Making decisions based on the ravings of a madman is completely idiotic.
And sometimes some people don't have the time to spend making a decision on the facts, and money is no problem so they may ask a friend or the cable co and not research the facts at all, and they may not be morons at all.
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Old 11-24-2013, 09:26 AM   #124
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And the circular arguments from troll-feeding continue...
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Old 11-24-2013, 10:11 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by mr.unnatural View Post
We weren't discussing cableco DVRs since we were talking about WMC in general. Tivo with lifetime will definitely be cheaper than the cableco DVR over the long haul. However, you have to factor in the cost of renting the cablecard since that's included in the DVR rental fee. Just about every provider has different fees for cablecards so you'd have to check with your local provider to make the informed comparison.

Anyone that claims A is better than B without providing any relevant data or proof is just blowing smoke. You haven't provided a single reference or link to back up any of the claims you've made. You can't provide them because they don't exist. Whether one UI is better than another is purely subjective and just a matter of personal preference.

When designing a UI you have to ask yourself several questions. Does it allow the user a simple and easy to understand interface to access the features he needs? Are all of the necessary features accessible? If so, then the UI has met the design criteria. I've simplified it a bit for my target audience, but I think you can understand what I'm saying. The WMC UI does what it was designed to do. It may not be as pretty as a Tivo UI, but it is functional and easy to navigate. Tivo has modified their UI with each new platform to where I had problems finding some of the menu items I needed. I'm all for improvement, but change just for the sake of change is no improvement at all.

Making informed decisions based on fact is definitely the way to go. Making decisions based on the ravings of a madman is completely idiotic.
The post I was responding to clearly was talking about CableCo DVRs and how people are too lazy/stupid to look at the alternatives.

The first CableCard is free with the service. If you have more than one CableCard, then that's a factor, but with TiVo Roamio, you only need one.

It's just obvious. The MCE interface doesn't make any sense. It was obviously made by computer programmers who were used to making desktop software and who have no clue how a DVR is supposed to work or how anyone would use it.

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And sometimes some people don't have the time to spend making a decision on the facts, and money is no problem so they may ask a friend or the cable co and not research the facts at all, and they may not be morons at all.
Going to an obviously biased party (the CableCo) is a really dumb way to make a decision about a DVR.
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Old 11-24-2013, 01:55 PM   #126
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The post I was responding to clearly was talking about CableCo DVRs and how people are too lazy/stupid to look at the alternatives.
Calling people lazy or stupid just because they don't share the same philosophy as you is just plain arrogant.

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The first CableCard is free with the service. If you have more than one CableCard, then that's a factor, but with TiVo Roamio, you only need one.
The first cablecard is not free with every provider, which you'd know if actually read any pertinent posts here. AFAIK, only Comcast gives you the first card for free, and that's only in certain markets. Verizon charges me for every cablecard they provide. I don't mind because I'll take Verizon over Comcrap any day of the week.

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It's just obvious. The MCE interface doesn't make any sense. It was obviously made by computer programmers who were used to making desktop software and who have no clue how a DVR is supposed to work or how anyone would use it.
Well, let's see. I've been using WMC since Windows 7 came out and I think it works pretty darn well as a DVR. The UI makes perfect sense to me and it just plain works. It's easy to navigate and works reliably well as a DVR, which is all anyone can ask. Obviously, it didn't work for you so we have to listen to you whine incessantly about it. To each his own. You certainly have the right to dislike the WMC UI, but quit trying to sell us BS that it's bad for everyone because we're just not buying it.

Microsoft also designed the UltimateTV DVR for DirecTV and the UI was far superior to a Tivo, IMHO (you'll notice that I stated this as my opinion and not fact ). I also preferred the UI on the ReplayTV to that of a Tivo back in the early days.

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Going to an obviously biased party (the CableCo) is a really dumb way to make a decision about a DVR.
Uninformed people make decisions based on the information they have at hand. Getting a Tivo vs. a cableco DVR may seem like the obvious choice to you because you already know about Tivos. The vast majority of the population doesn't know any better. I'm just amazed at how completely clueless you are about this fact. Just because someone doesn't know everything that you do you call them lazy or stupid. What a really great guy you are. (NOT!!!).

OK mods. I think this thread has gone way beyond the original topic so how about we close it? I've had about all I can stomach from Mr. Bigg.
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Old 11-24-2013, 09:16 PM   #127
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Calling people lazy or stupid just because they don't share the same philosophy as you is just plain arrogant.

The first cablecard is not free with every provider, which you'd know if actually read any pertinent posts here. AFAIK, only Comcast gives you the first card for free, and that's only in certain markets. Verizon charges me for every cablecard they provide. I don't mind because I'll take Verizon over Comcrap any day of the week.

Well, let's see. I've been using WMC since Windows 7 came out and I think it works pretty darn well as a DVR. The UI makes perfect sense to me and it just plain works. It's easy to navigate and works reliably well as a DVR, which is all anyone can ask. Obviously, it didn't work for you so we have to listen to you whine incessantly about it. To each his own. You certainly have the right to dislike the WMC UI, but quit trying to sell us BS that it's bad for everyone because we're just not buying it.

Microsoft also designed the UltimateTV DVR for DirecTV and the UI was far superior to a Tivo, IMHO (you'll notice that I stated this as my opinion and not fact ). I also preferred the UI on the ReplayTV to that of a Tivo back in the early days.

Uninformed people make decisions based on the information they have at hand. Getting a Tivo vs. a cableco DVR may seem like the obvious choice to you because you already know about Tivos. The vast majority of the population doesn't know any better. I'm just amazed at how completely clueless you are about this fact. Just because someone doesn't know everything that you do you call them lazy or stupid. What a really great guy you are. (NOT!!!).

OK mods. I think this thread has gone way beyond the original topic so how about we close it? I've had about all I can stomach from Mr. Bigg.
If they're charging you for the CableCard, then they have to give you a credit if you don't have any equipment- that's the law. If that's the case, the charges will wash out.

You are so full of crap. If you want to use MCE and put up with it's crappy interface because you can build a DVR with 16 tuners and 20TB of storage, fine, but just say so.

I've never used UltimateTV, so I don't know what it's interface was like.

A consumer should be informed, and research their options. If they don't know about TiVo, they obviously didn't do that. That, and TiVo advertises on national TV, so it's not like people don't know about them. They're just too lazy to do anything other than accept the garbage that Comcast is ripping them off for.
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Old 11-24-2013, 09:51 PM   #128
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Rather than go through another long diatribe about why you're full of it, Bigg, I'm going to give you an opportunity to state your case. You claim that the WMC UI is crappy, but you haven't stated what's so crappy about it. Give us a list of everything you find wrong about it and why Tivo's interface is far superior. Otherwise, just shut the hell up and stop bothering the grownups.

Fair enough?

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Old 11-25-2013, 05:27 PM   #129
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Going to an obviously biased party (the CableCo) is a really dumb way to make a decision about a DVR.
God!!, do I have a lot of really dumb friends, but guess what, when one of these dumb friends has any problem with their cable co DVR, guess who they don't call...me, the friends that have TiVos call me, so I want all my friends that want a DVR to get the cable co one as I don't want to have any more free TiVo service calls then I now have.
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Old 11-25-2013, 05:43 PM   #130
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They may have competition from pre-existing technology.

http://www.howstuffworks.com/how-to-...-build-dvr.htm
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Old 11-25-2013, 06:31 PM   #131
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Rather than go through another long diatribe about why you're full of it, Bigg, I'm going to give you an opportunity to state your case. You claim that the WMC UI is crappy, but you haven't stated what's so crappy about it. Give us a list of everything you find wrong about it and why Tivo's interface is far superior. Otherwise, just shut the hell up and stop bothering the grownups.

Fair enough?
This thread describes it in detail, with far more detail than what I can remember now:

http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/...hp?f=22&t=4466
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Old 11-25-2013, 06:32 PM   #132
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God!!, do I have a lot of really dumb friends, but guess what, when one of these dumb friends has any problem with their cable co DVR, guess who they don't call...me, the friends that have TiVos call me, so I want all my friends that want a DVR to get the cable co one as I don't want to have any more free TiVo service calls then I now have.
Except TiVo is super easy to use and fix. Unlikely being on the phone for hours with incompetent CSRs from Comcast.

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They may have competition from pre-existing technology.

http://www.howstuffworks.com/how-to-...-build-dvr.htm
We've already covered MCE, and nothing else fully integrates with CableCard.
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Old 11-25-2013, 09:33 PM   #133
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Except TiVo is super easy to use and fix. Unlikely being on the phone for hours with incompetent CSRs from Comcast.
For you and me and most on this forum, but most people in the USA could not fix a TiVo.
Comcast in CT answers the phone fast and has a 2 hour service window if needed.
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Old 11-25-2013, 11:38 PM   #134
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This thread describes it in detail, with far more detail than what I can remember now:

http://www.thegreenbutton.tv/forums/...hp?f=22&t=4466
I'm reading the thread and so far it's more of the same ranting you posted here.

I don't have a problem with recording repeats, but then I tend to screen my upcoming recording list on a daily basis and weed out extraneous things I don't want out of sheer habit. It never takes me more than a minute or so. If I leave them alone they'll eventually weed themselves out unless the guide data never gets updated for whatever reason. I've found that recordings are scheduled as soon as the preliminary guide data appears. However, the specific information about that particular episode gets filled out much closer to the actual air date so the list tends to get filled with a lot of repeats because there is nothing in the guide data that differentiates the individual episodes initially. This is an issue with Zap2it and not WMC. OTOH, I do see many reruns that do specify in which season they originally aired, although the episode number is missing. I personally use epguides.com to find out the missing episode information if I feel the need. If it's the current season and I've only chosen to record new episodes then the next episode that gets recorded is pretty much guaranteed to be the latest one. The only time I actually need the specific episode number is if I happen to be archiving a series or I'm trying to see how many episodes are left in the current season.

I can't recall if I ever saw season and episode information on any Tivo I've owned so the lack of it never bothered me. Again, this is a Zap2it issue and has nothing to do with WMC. WMC can only display what Zap2it provides. You're pointing the finger at the wrong source.

I have commercial skipping working quite well on my HTPC. It's not 100% perfect, but it works pretty well. I've found several tutorials on setting it up and there's even a way to fine tune it for each individual channel. There's always the 30-second skip available on any WMC remote in case the commercial doesn't get mapped properly.

I have a universal remote (Harmony One) and it works great for controlling my TV, preamp/processor, and HTPC. The Harmony remotes are quite simple to configure for use with a Media Center PC. If you're using more than one remote to control your home theater setup with WMC then you need to go back to the drawing board because it ain't that hard (at least not for the rest of us).

I won't claim that I understood every functional feature of WMC when I first used it, but it wasn't all that hard to figure out. The basic stuff was pretty straightforward, but there are more advanced features that require a bit of training to understand. There are lots of online resources available to help you through the process if you get stuck.

After reading your post I can't say for sure what it was you were expecting from WMC, but clearly you had issues understanding how to use it. That basically boils down to a personal problem in that you just didn't take the time to understand what you were using. I couldn't help but notice that the responses you received at TGB were pretty much the same as what you're getting here. You clearly have no patience for anything that doesn't live up to your unrealistic expectations. I have yet to come across a UI that is 100% intuitive and didn't require any sort of tutorials to learn. I've had to reference the Tivo Users Manual on more than one occasion to find some feature in the menu structure that wasn't intuitively obvious.

FWIW, pointing to another thread that contained your original rant was not what I was looking for. I was hoping you could provide some sort of concrete evidence that backed up your claims about WMC's supposed inferiority to a Tivo. The thing is, we both know you can't because it simply doesn't exist. The only thing you have to back up your claims is your opinion and nothing more.

The bottom line is that you just don't like WMC. We get that. But guess what? Nobody else that has actually learned how to use WMC cares about your opinion because we all know it's a total crock.

We have all considered the source and found it to be lacking.

Use WMC or don't use WMC, we really don't care. You aren't going to convert anyone based on your opinion, especially the way you've presented it. Just quit bitching about it and get a life.

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Old 11-25-2013, 11:45 PM   #135
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For you and me and most on this forum, but most people in the USA could not fix a TiVo.
Including Tivo. If your Tivo malfunctions they send you a refurbished unit, which generally consists of a used Tivo platform with a re-certified hard drive. I'd be surprised if Tivo actually repairs any of their own hardware or even contracts anyone else to do it for them. They might swap out a power supply, but I'd be surprised if they even have the capability of repairing a Tivo mainboard. More likely they either swap it out or junk the unit altogether.
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Old 11-26-2013, 10:21 AM   #136
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Including Tivo. If your Tivo malfunctions they send you a refurbished unit, which generally consists of a used Tivo platform with a re-certified hard drive. I'd be surprised if Tivo actually repairs any of their own hardware or even contracts anyone else to do it for them. They might swap out a power supply, but I'd be surprised if they even have the capability of repairing a Tivo mainboard. More likely they either swap it out or junk the unit altogether.
Your correct but most TiVo problems are the hard drive and with the Roamio that very easy to fix for people on this forum, but for the general population, they would just call TiVo for a replacement unit, or call a TiVo friend to replace the hard drive.
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Old 11-26-2013, 03:59 PM   #137
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Magnavox HDD DVR and DVD Recorder with Digital Tuner, 500GB with Bonus Ematic HDMI 10

Walmart has this DVR. This caught my eye because it has 428 reviews on the Walmart site and 91% recommend it. It's only one digital tuner and works like a DVR.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Magnavox-H...le-6/26934923#
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Old 11-26-2013, 07:02 PM   #138
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Walmart has this DVR. This caught my eye because it has 428 reviews on the Walmart site and 91% recommend it. It's only one digital tuner and works like a DVR.

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Magnavox-H...le-6/26934923#
Getting high praise from Walmartians doesn't really give me a warm fuzzy about a product. Since it's likely a standard DVD recorder it will only record HD content in 720x480 resolution. I assume that this is an ATSC/QAM tuner as I saw no mention of anything to do with cablecards. The DVD recorder part holds no interest for me, but others may like it. I've completely gotten away from any type of physical storage media and now put everything on my server.

Having only a single tuner in a DVR these days just isn't worthwhile. You can either watch or record live TV, but not both at the same time. Dual tuners is an absolute minimum to be worthy of consideration. Still, I can see where it might be appealing for the occasional recording.
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Old 11-27-2013, 09:48 AM   #139
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Getting high praise from Walmartians doesn't really give me a warm fuzzy about a product. Since it's likely a standard DVD recorder it will only record HD content in 720x480 resolution. I assume that this is an ATSC/QAM tuner as I saw no mention of anything to do with cablecards. The DVD recorder part holds no interest for me, but others may like it. I've completely gotten away from any type of physical storage media and now put everything on my server.

Having only a single tuner in a DVR these days just isn't worthwhile. You can either watch or record live TV, but not both at the same time. Dual tuners is an absolute minimum to be worthy of consideration. Still, I can see where it might be appealing for the occasional recording.
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Getting high praise from Walmartians doesn't really give me a warm fuzzy about a product.
Most people only post to complain. It's unusual to see such a high volume of reviews with such a high positive percentage.

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Since it's likely a standard DVD recorder it will only record HD content in 720x480 resolution. I assume that this is an ATSC/QAM tuner as I saw no mention of anything to do with cablecards.
Yes, it seems to be a single tuner OTA DVR with VCR type programming with no guide information.

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The DVD recorder part holds no interest for me, but others may like it. I've completely gotten away from any type of physical storage media and now put everything on my server.
Yes, they should have dropped the DVD to lower the cost. It's too expensive.

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Having only a single tuner in a DVR these days just isn't worthwhile. You can either watch or record live TV, but not both at the same time. Dual tuners is an absolute minimum to be worthy of consideration. Still, I can see where it might be appealing for the occasional recording.
No. You would be able to watch live programming while recording through your TV's built in digital tuner. So you can record and watch live TV at the same time. So you could have this DVR recording all the time.
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Old 11-27-2013, 09:11 PM   #140
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I'm reading the thread and so far it's more of the same ranting you posted here.

I don't have a problem with recording repeats, but then I tend to screen my upcoming recording list on a daily basis and weed out extraneous things I don't want out of sheer habit. It never takes me more than a minute or so. If I leave them alone they'll eventually weed themselves out unless the guide data never gets updated for whatever reason. I've found that recordings are scheduled as soon as the preliminary guide data appears. However, the specific information about that particular episode gets filled out much closer to the actual air date so the list tends to get filled with a lot of repeats because there is nothing in the guide data that differentiates the individual episodes initially. This is an issue with Zap2it and not WMC. OTOH, I do see many reruns that do specify in which season they originally aired, although the episode number is missing. I personally use epguides.com to find out the missing episode information if I feel the need. If it's the current season and I've only chosen to record new episodes then the next episode that gets recorded is pretty much guaranteed to be the latest one. The only time I actually need the specific episode number is if I happen to be archiving a series or I'm trying to see how many episodes are left in the current season.

I can't recall if I ever saw season and episode information on any Tivo I've owned so the lack of it never bothered me. Again, this is a Zap2it issue and has nothing to do with WMC. WMC can only display what Zap2it provides. You're pointing the finger at the wrong source.

I have commercial skipping working quite well on my HTPC. It's not 100% perfect, but it works pretty well. I've found several tutorials on setting it up and there's even a way to fine tune it for each individual channel. There's always the 30-second skip available on any WMC remote in case the commercial doesn't get mapped properly.

I have a universal remote (Harmony One) and it works great for controlling my TV, preamp/processor, and HTPC. The Harmony remotes are quite simple to configure for use with a Media Center PC. If you're using more than one remote to control your home theater setup with WMC then you need to go back to the drawing board because it ain't that hard (at least not for the rest of us).

I won't claim that I understood every functional feature of WMC when I first used it, but it wasn't all that hard to figure out. The basic stuff was pretty straightforward, but there are more advanced features that require a bit of training to understand. There are lots of online resources available to help you through the process if you get stuck.

After reading your post I can't say for sure what it was you were expecting from WMC, but clearly you had issues understanding how to use it. That basically boils down to a personal problem in that you just didn't take the time to understand what you were using. I couldn't help but notice that the responses you received at TGB were pretty much the same as what you're getting here. You clearly have no patience for anything that doesn't live up to your unrealistic expectations. I have yet to come across a UI that is 100% intuitive and didn't require any sort of tutorials to learn. I've had to reference the Tivo Users Manual on more than one occasion to find some feature in the menu structure that wasn't intuitively obvious.

FWIW, pointing to another thread that contained your original rant was not what I was looking for. I was hoping you could provide some sort of concrete evidence that backed up your claims about WMC's supposed inferiority to a Tivo. The thing is, we both know you can't because it simply doesn't exist. The only thing you have to back up your claims is your opinion and nothing more.

The bottom line is that you just don't like WMC. We get that. But guess what? Nobody else that has actually learned how to use WMC cares about your opinion because we all know it's a total crock.

We have all considered the source and found it to be lacking.

Use WMC or don't use WMC, we really don't care. You aren't going to convert anyone based on your opinion, especially the way you've presented it. Just quit bitching about it and get a life.
It's not ranting, it's observing and relaying that through writing. Very different from just complaining. The post I linked to was very well written, I obviously put some time into it at the time.

I don't care who isn't providing complete guide data, it reflects very poorly on MCE. TiVo's guide data has gone down hill a bit, but it's nowhere as bad as MCE's.

The commercial skipping software setup was a disaster. It worked intermittently once or twice. I hope that DISH paves the way for DVRs to integrate this functionality, as it would be very useful- if it actually worked.

The Peanut is way better than anything I could find for MCE. The MCE remotes are clunky and don't feel right in the hand, and can't control the AVR and TV. The Peanut can turn everything on and off. I have no interest in a universal remote, each devices comes with a remote that has all of the right buttons for that device, a universal remote will never be as good as the individual remotes.

The interface is idiotic. It makes no sense. I did figure it out after playing with it a bit, but it's definitely not user-intuitive like TiVo.

Unrealistic expectations? What are you talking about? The Comcast DVR offers basic, easy to use functionality that's a lot easier to learn and use than MCE. That's PATHETIC, as that thing is a POS. Is it unrealistic to expect an interface that MAKES SENSE? I'm sorry if I have standards here, but MCE doesn't just have a few little things here and there that aren't as good as TiVo, it's two orders of magnitude not as good as a TiVo.

Some of TiVo's menus don't really make total sense, and they have gotten a lot more convoluted since I started using TiVo on Software version 4, IIRC, on the Series 2, BUT TiVo is still user-intuitive, and MCE really isn't. Anyone can pick up the peanut and nearly instantly know how to use it. That's now more important than ever, since a few months after trying MCE and then moving to TiVo I moved into a house with roommates, and I don't want something that breaks all the time and requires constant support and explanations of how to use it. TiVo is there, it's reliable, it has an excellent interface, and it's 100% user intuitive.

The only way you could even bear using MCE is to lower your expectations significantly from TiVo. There are no two ways about it, MCE's interface is extremely poorly designed, and ill-suited to much of anything. Anyone who is happy with MCE is either willing to put up with garbage software in order to have awesome custom-built hardware, or they've never seen a TiVo and don't know a DVR can be.

I've presented the facts about MCE. You can make ridiculous claims about it, but that's not going to change reality. MCE sucks, and since Microsoft gave up developing it before really finishing it, it's going to suck until it dies. But it's not going to die until at least January, 10, 2023, so it will still be available for those willing to put up with it's awful self for quite a while longer.
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Old 11-27-2013, 11:34 PM   #141
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I had a response I previously posted but decided to replace because I realized it was a complete waste of time. You have a preconceived notion about WMC that will clearly never change. You also have some preconceived notion that if you bitch about it enough you will miraculously change the minds of everyone that has no issues with WMC into believing that you actually know what you're talking about. Your continued discussions on the matter make it clear to everyone here that it is not the case.

You claim facts but have nothing to show for it but your experience with a single PC setup, and even then your "facts" are nothing more than your personal opinion (and that is an actual fact). This somehow makes you an expert on WMC, at least in your own mind. I have personally configured dozens of WMC PCs that work perfectly fine so I can safely say that I have far more experience than you do when it comes to installing and configuring a WMC PC. I use WMC on a daily basis, as do hundreds, if not thousands, of others, and somehow you know more about it than anyone else. In the grand scheme of things, you are irrelevant. Your futility in using WMC stems from your own inabilities or possibly just bad luck and nothing more. The sooner you realize that, the sooner you will find peace. However, I think you are just an angry, bitter person craving attention. There is no other rational explanation for your continued participation in this non-discussion.

Let it go. Nothing will be resolved by further discussion. Continuing this non-debate serves no one.

The bad news is that I fully expect another bitch rebuttal to be posted shortly.

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Old 11-28-2013, 05:14 AM   #142
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Please stop feeding the troll and this thread will die off.
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Old 11-28-2013, 06:45 AM   #143
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Please stop feeding the troll and this thread will die off.
Why is either one of them a troll???

They are both stubborn and they are both incorrectly arguing from their own personal experience, but the latter applies to most of this forum. Neither is presenting any new convincing evidence in support of their theories. Situation normal for any forum.
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Old 11-28-2013, 07:01 AM   #144
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Yeah, but it's getting old. The same back and forth with nothing new added.

There's no need for it any longer.
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Old 11-28-2013, 10:08 AM   #145
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Agreed. The entire argument has been ridiculous from the start and I apologize for taking part in it and wasting everyone's time. OTOH, sometimes it's just fun to poke a troll and see what he'll do next.

Please note that I requested the thread be closed a while ago when it was obviously no longer productive. I admit guilt to prolonging the silliness so I'll stop now.

Now, let's all give thanks for what we have and go stuff our faces with turkey and watch some football. Peace.

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Old 11-28-2013, 08:35 PM   #146
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Meh. I just spotted this thread today (have been thinking about switching back to TiVo after having used WMC for the last couple of years). After reading the first page or two of posts I was excited about replying with my thoughts/experiences, but then I got to the last couple of pages and saw that Bigg thread-crapped all over it. So I shouldn't be keeping this thread alive by replying to it, but I guess I can't help myself.

So, anyway, to answer the original poster's question, TiVo seems to stand alone in terms of an out-of-the-box consumer electronics solution. WMC (Windows Media Center), however, is definitely a viable alternative. I think there are pros/cons to each.

Unlike Bigg, I think the UI for WMC is actually very good. It is a far cry above the standard Comcast DVR UI (though maybe their most recent DVR solution that they're starting to test in some markets is decent. I don't know as I don't have any direct experience with that). Sure, there are a couple of UI things with WMC that when I first switched from my TiVo HD (Series 3) I thought, "Oh, I don't like the way that works...TiVo was better", but there were also aspects to the WMC UI that I thought were superior to how TiVo did things. And the UI was certainly a lot snappier than my TiVo HD (S3) UI (but it sounds like UI responsiveness has been greatly improved with the Roamio line).

One of the things drawing me back to TiVo is the promise of streaming to mobile devices. This was actually one of the reasons I was originally drawn to WMC. At the time, with TiVo, you'd have to first transfer your show *off* of the TiVo and onto a computer (which took time) and then convert the show to a mobile-friendly format (even longer). With WMC, you'd at least skip that first step. Since that time, I've experimented with Plex and other solutions which do a great job of transcoding on-the-fly WMC TV shows, but it only really works (well) on shows that have already completed recording. For shows still-in-progress, it doesn't really work (well). Whereas now (flash-forward nearly 2 years), TiVo with the Stream and Roamio units, can supposedly do exactly that (I'm still curious about how good the picture quality is on this transcoded content viewed on an iPad, etc.).

If the ability to view live TV on your mobile device isn't important to you, I would definitely give WMC a serious look, with one more caveat. It's not a consumer electronics, "take it out of the box and plug it in" experience. You should be fairly technical and actually enjoy tinkering a bit. If that describes you, then by all means look into WMC. I would personally recommend looking into a refurbished Apple Mac Mini with HDHomeRun PRIME as a starting point, hardware-wise. Then, add Windows 7 w/Media Center. Total cost under $700. If you don't care about having a smallish system, you can spend even less by finding another capable PC (maybe you already own one?) or an older Mac Mini. I would recommend getting something with a decently capable CPU so that you can run Plex to do transcoding on-the-fly for mobile devices of pre-recorded TV shows as well as your movie collection. FWIW, I don't personally use a Mac Mini (I have a refurb HP tower w/Intel i7 that I paid about $500 for), but I think the Mac Mini is a beautiful piece of hardware, with lots of built in features, and is competitively priced to any other small PC you'd put together yourself. Plus, if/when you want to switch to something else, it will have a decent resale value.

As I mentioned, I'm looking at the TiVo Roamio line right now. The biggest reason, quite frankly, is because I'm a tech geek and it's been a couple of good years with WMC now, but I'd kind of like to try something new/different, just for a change of pace. I do have very fond memories of TiVo and am interested/excited about the streaming possibilities. I'll add that my WMC computer is showing signs of failure. I'm sure I could resolve that entirely by reformatting/reinstalling Windows 7 (and I might not even need to do anything that drastic). So, that's an added factor, especially since my wife won't be very happy with me if my WMC server bites the dust while I'm out of town on work.

I will agree with Bigg that the TiVo peanut remote was/is a wonderful thing, and I do miss it. But in today's world, can the TiVo be your one and only device? I have an Apple TV, too, and would still need my nettop PC (running XBMC w/PleXBMC) to play my movie rips, so I pretty much have to trade the TiVo remote for a multi-device remote like one of my Logitech Harmony remotes. As great of a design as the TiVo remote is, if it can only control one thing and I have to put it down and pick up a different remote for a different use, then it's a faulty overall solution.
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Old 11-29-2013, 06:23 AM   #147
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Meh. I just spotted this thread today (have been thinking about switching back to TiVo after having used WMC for the last couple of years). After reading the first page or two of posts I was excited about replying with my thoughts/experiences, but then I got to the last couple of pages and saw that Bigg thread-crapped all over it. So I shouldn't be keeping this thread alive by replying to it, but I guess I can't help myself.

So, anyway, to answer the original poster's question, TiVo seems to stand alone in terms of an out-of-the-box consumer electronics solution. WMC (Windows Media Center), however, is definitely a viable alternative. I think there are pros/cons to each.

Unlike Bigg, I think the UI for WMC is actually very good. It is a far cry above the standard Comcast DVR UI (though maybe their most recent DVR solution that they're starting to test in some markets is decent. I don't know as I don't have any direct experience with that). Sure, there are a couple of UI things with WMC that when I first switched from my TiVo HD (Series 3) I thought, "Oh, I don't like the way that works...TiVo was better", but there were also aspects to the WMC UI that I thought were superior to how TiVo did things. And the UI was certainly a lot snappier than my TiVo HD (S3) UI (but it sounds like UI responsiveness has been greatly improved with the Roamio line).

One of the things drawing me back to TiVo is the promise of streaming to mobile devices. This was actually one of the reasons I was originally drawn to WMC. At the time, with TiVo, you'd have to first transfer your show *off* of the TiVo and onto a computer (which took time) and then convert the show to a mobile-friendly format (even longer). With WMC, you'd at least skip that first step. Since that time, I've experimented with Plex and other solutions which do a great job of transcoding on-the-fly WMC TV shows, but it only really works (well) on shows that have already completed recording. For shows still-in-progress, it doesn't really work (well). Whereas now (flash-forward nearly 2 years), TiVo with the Stream and Roamio units, can supposedly do exactly that (I'm still curious about how good the picture quality is on this transcoded content viewed on an iPad, etc.).

If the ability to view live TV on your mobile device isn't important to you, I would definitely give WMC a serious look, with one more caveat. It's not a consumer electronics, "take it out of the box and plug it in" experience. You should be fairly technical and actually enjoy tinkering a bit. If that describes you, then by all means look into WMC. I would personally recommend looking into a refurbished Apple Mac Mini with HDHomeRun PRIME as a starting point, hardware-wise. Then, add Windows 7 w/Media Center. Total cost under $700. If you don't care about having a smallish system, you can spend even less by finding another capable PC (maybe you already own one?) or an older Mac Mini. I would recommend getting something with a decently capable CPU so that you can run Plex to do transcoding on-the-fly for mobile devices of pre-recorded TV shows as well as your movie collection. FWIW, I don't personally use a Mac Mini (I have a refurb HP tower w/Intel i7 that I paid about $500 for), but I think the Mac Mini is a beautiful piece of hardware, with lots of built in features, and is competitively priced to any other small PC you'd put together yourself. Plus, if/when you want to switch to something else, it will have a decent resale value.

As I mentioned, I'm looking at the TiVo Roamio line right now. The biggest reason, quite frankly, is because I'm a tech geek and it's been a couple of good years with WMC now, but I'd kind of like to try something new/different, just for a change of pace. I do have very fond memories of TiVo and am interested/excited about the streaming possibilities. I'll add that my WMC computer is showing signs of failure. I'm sure I could resolve that entirely by reformatting/reinstalling Windows 7 (and I might not even need to do anything that drastic). So, that's an added factor, especially since my wife won't be very happy with me if my WMC server bites the dust while I'm out of town on work.

I will agree with Bigg that the TiVo peanut remote was/is a wonderful thing, and I do miss it. But in today's world, can the TiVo be your one and only device? I have an Apple TV, too, and would still need my nettop PC (running XBMC w/PleXBMC) to play my movie rips, so I pretty much have to trade the TiVo remote for a multi-device remote like one of my Logitech Harmony remotes. As great of a design as the TiVo remote is, if it can only control one thing and I have to put it down and pick up a different remote for a different use, then it's a faulty overall solution.
Zzzzz .... zzzzzz. Probably some good info in that verbose treatise if I hadn't dozed off a third of the way through.
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Old 11-29-2013, 08:28 AM   #148
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I'm curious as to why you'd recommend a Mac mini. I assume you'd have to install Parallels in order to run Windows 7 and Media Center. Macs aren't really the platform of choice for HTPCs. There are countless choices for PC platforms that will work well as a HTPC that are less expensive.

I agree about the Tivo peanut. I understand why so many people love it due to the ergonomic design. Sadly, it is far too limited for controlling multiple components in a home theater system so many of us have to look elsewhere for an all-in-one solution. I think the Harmony remotes are favored more than any other remote for home theater use, but there are other choices as well.
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Old 11-29-2013, 09:00 AM   #149
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I'm curious as to why you'd recommend a Mac mini. I assume you'd have to install Parallels in order to run Windows 7 and Media Center. Macs aren't really the platform of choice for HTPCs. There are countless choices for PC platforms that will work well as a HTPC that are less expensive.
You don't need to spend extra on Parallels. If your intention is to use it as a dedicated Windows Media Center server, you just use the built-in Bootcamp capability to install Windows on a separate hard disk partition.

I think the Mac Mini compares favorably to those custom Assassin builds, or a NUC. A NUC, for example, doesn't come with RAM or a hard drive. And like the Mac Mini, you'll need to supply Windows yourself. So once you add all of those pieces in, you're not really saving much money. The Mac Mini even has built-in IR (though, to be honest, I'm not certain how easy it is to make use of that on the Windows side). The base model 2012 Mac Mini will you give you an Intel i5 (yes, it's a notebook version of the i5, but it's probably still faster than the CPU you'll get with a NUC), 4GB of RAM, 500GB hard drive, gigabit ethernet, and HDMI out. $600 new, and cheaper as a refurb. You'll also get Bluetooth and 802.11n, though those features won't do much for you as a Windows Media Center server.

How much money are you going to save if you build your own NUC? $100? And with the Mac Mini, if/when you decide to replace it in the future, you'll get a lot more for it on the used market.

Now, if small size, low power consumption, and a sexy case are not important to you, I would recommend looking for a deal on a refurb / open box HP mini-tower. That's the route I've gone in the past (and what I'm using now). I scored my refurb HP tower with i7 (full desktop version of the i7) for about $500 over a year ago. It came with a 1.5TB drive, HDMI, 8GB of RAM, and a Blu-ray drive. It also came with a dedicated graphics card, but I actually pulled it out to save some watts/heat and with the thought that I might resell it to save a few more bucks, but I never got around to doing that, so it's just sitting in a cabinet somewhere.
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Old 11-29-2013, 09:01 AM   #150
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I'm curious as to why you'd recommend a Mac mini. I assume you'd have to install Parallels in order to run Windows 7 and Media Center. Macs aren't really the platform of choice for HTPCs. There are countless choices for PC platforms that will work well as a HTPC that are less expensive.
I'd venture to say because of the small form factor, built-in HDMI and IR. The way I read it is he'd do a native install of Windows (Boot Camp). It's a nice looking device that can be left out to be seen.

I use a Mac mini myself, but not as a HTPC. I use it as my media hub with Apple TVs deployed for content consumption. I looked into extending its functions for live TV recording and streaming but went with TiVo because that had SWMBO approval for ease of use.
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