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Old 11-25-2013, 12:48 PM   #1
Marconi
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Roamio Network Weirdness

I just added a Roamio to my network which is a mix of wireless and MoCA provided by Actiontec routers. I have two THD DVRs at the same location as the Roamio and they connect using Ethernet which is provided by an Actiontec router. All that works. Now add in the Roamio, connected by Ethernet through the same Actiontec router (it has a 4-port switch built in). The Roamio has two MAC addresses, one for Ethernet, one for MoCA. My router reserves particular IP addresses for each MAC for everything on my network so that everything always gets the same IP address via DHCP.

Weirdness #1
Connected via Ethernet, via the Actiontec, even though MoCA is not turned on, both the Ethernet IP and the MoCA IP of the Roamio return pings. And the MoCA IP has a latency of 0.004 seconds while the Ethernet connection runs around 0.014 seconds.

Running a Bonjour scan of my network, the Roamio shows up as follows:

DVR-CE6C Zeus _http._tcp. 10.0.1.190:80
DVR-CE6C Zeus _tivo-device._tcp. 10.0.1.190:80
DVR-CE6C Zeus _tivo-mindrpc._tcp. 10.0.1.190:1413
DVR-CE6C Zeus _tivo-remote._tcp. 10.0.1.190:31339
DVR-CE6C Zeus _tivo-videos._tcp. 10.0.1.190:443
DVR-CE6C Zeus _tivo-videostream._tcp. 10.0.1.190:443
STR-CE6C Zeus _tivo-xcode._tcp. 10.0.1.191:49152

I know what a "DVR" is but what's a "STR"? That seems to be the MoCA address presence.

Weirdness #2
If I attempt to turn on the Roamio's MoCA networking ('Connect using MoCA'), it crashes my Actiontec based MoCA, and the Roamio's MoCA says it cannot find the router.

When I was first setting up the Roamio in another room, turning on MoCA did not cause any problems and I ran the Roamio with just MoCA networking for a while.

To connect the Roamio's coax, I took the coax going to the Actiontec's coax connection, added a 2-way splitter with one going to the Actiontec and the other to the Roamio. So, the Actiontec and Roamio are separated by just a few feet of coax through a splitter. Could it be that they are just too close together?

In Roamio's network settings, what is "Use this DVR to create a MoCA network"? MoCA is peer to peer. None of the devices "creates" a network. Does this perhaps mean, Create an Internet Gateway via MoCA? That is, plug the Roamio Ethernet cable into your cable modem and let MoCA devices connect to the Internet over coax through "this DVR"?
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Old 11-25-2013, 01:12 PM   #2
Time_Lord
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First the Roamio (Plus & Pro) use 2 MAC addresses, one for the TiVO DVR and one for the Stream.

The MAC addresses are sequential and the lower numbered MAC address is the TiVO.

I haven't turned on MoCA on my unit, however I have found that if you configured wireless on the unit, even if wireless shows down, it is in fact still active and will transmit packets randomly between both the wireless and the ethernet, The same may hold true with MoCA and I suspect this is what is crashing your router as you have probably created a network loop.

The only way I know how to disable the wireless was to re-enable it and set a bogus SSID so it had no place to connect to.

-TL
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Old 11-25-2013, 05:55 PM   #3
Marconi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Time_Lord View Post
First the Roamio (Plus & Pro) use 2 MAC addresses, one for the TiVO DVR and one for the Stream.
Obviously. That's how I was able to assign IP addreses to each.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Time_Lord

The MAC addresses are sequential and the lower numbered MAC address is the TiVO.
For the TiVo's Ethernet (en0). Or are you saying that Ethernet and wireless both use the same MAC? Most devices have one MAC per network adapter. I'd expect the wireless to have its own MAC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Time_Lord

I haven't turned on MoCA on my unit, however I have found that if you configured wireless on the unit, even if wireless shows down, it is in fact still active and will transmit packets randomly between both the wireless and the ethernet,
"Random packets" would not explain why the MoCA IP responds to pings even with MoCA turned off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Time_Lord


The same may hold true with MoCA and I suspect this is what is crashing your router as you have probably created a network loop.
I have not turned on wireless. And if MoCA is creating some sort of loop even when turned off, that's a bug. It's not as though I can disconnect MoCA and still record...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Time_Lord

The only way I know how to disable the wireless was to re-enable it and set a bogus SSID so it had no place to connect to.

-TL
I have not turned on wireless but it would be interesting to do so and see if the MAC is the same as for Ethernet.

One thing I found interesting is that when the Roamio was connected in another room and I had MoCA turned on with the Ethernet cable plugged in, Network status showd "Ethernet + MoCA" as active.
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Old 11-25-2013, 06:40 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marconi View Post
Or are you saying that Ethernet and wireless both use the same MAC? Most devices have one MAC per network adapter. I'd expect the wireless to have its own MAC.
YES, TiVO uses the same MAC address for the Wireless as the Ethernet, I think the best way of looking at it is TiVO simply used a single interface which has multiple media types (Ethernet, WiFi, & MoCA) and they can all be enabled at the same time, so not only is it the same MAC address, its actually the same interface!

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Originally Posted by Marconi View Post
"Random packets" would not explain why the MoCA IP responds to pings even with MoCA turned off. I have not turned on wireless. And if MoCA is creating some sort of loop even when turned off, that's a bug. It's not as though I can disconnect MoCA and still record...I have not turned on wireless but it would be interesting to do so and see if the MAC is the same as for Ethernet.
See below for your answer on this one as you found your problem, plus if my theory is correct on how TiVO handles the interface then yes it'll be the same MAC address on MoCA too and having 2 interfaces enabled which you described below with two bridges (TiVO and Actiontec) between ethernet and MoCA will cause the TiVO to respond to the MoCA IP address.


Quote:
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One thing I found interesting is that when the Roamio was connected in another room and I had MoCA turned on with the Ethernet cable plugged in, Network status showd "Ethernet + MoCA" as active.
BINGO! you created a loop in your network, and I suspect the Actiontec cannot deal with the flood of traffic caused by the loop and simply crashes. You need to either disable the MoCA on the TiVO or on the Actiontec router. In my case I have 1 Verizon cable box which requires MoCA and since I have no need for the Actiontec router other than being a MoCA bridge, I disconnected the Actiontec and enabled bridging on the TiVO, the Verizon cable box is happy and I removed another piece of junk from my network.

If you need the Actiontec for a router, WiFi, DHCP etc I think you can simply disconnect the Coax from the Actiontec and everything will continue to work correctly since you are now using the TiVO as the MoCA bridge.

Last edited by Time_Lord : 11-25-2013 at 06:54 PM.
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Old 11-26-2013, 04:41 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Time_Lord View Post
YES, TiVO uses the same MAC address for the Wireless as the Ethernet, I think the best way of looking at it is TiVO simply used a single interface which has multiple media types (Ethernet, WiFi, & MoCA) and they can all be enabled at the same time, so not only is it the same MAC address, its actually the same interface!
But MoCA rates its own MAC while wireless does not?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Time_Lord

See below for your answer on this one as you found your problem, plus if my theory is correct on how TiVO handles the interface then yes it'll be the same MAC address on MoCA too
Except that it isn't. MoCA and Ethernet have separate MAC addresses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Time_Lord
and having 2 interfaces enabled which you described below with two bridges (TiVO and Actiontec) between ethernet and MoCA will cause the TiVO to respond to the MoCA IP address.
Even with MoCA turned off? Thing is, when I had the Roamio in another room with the same setup (MoCA on and Ethernet plugged into a port on another Actiontec), it operated fine. Network settings reported the connection type as Ethernet + MoCA"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Time_Lord

BINGO! you created a loop in your network,
Why didn't it create a loop when this DVR was in another room and the same setup?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Time_Lord
and I suspect the Actiontec cannot deal with the flood of traffic caused by the loop and simply crashes. You need to either disable the MoCA on the TiVO
Obviously.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Time_Lord
or on the Actiontec router.
The Actiontec needs it on to provide Ethernet for two THDs and, now, the Roamio.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Time_Lord

If you need the Actiontec for a router, WiFi, DHCP etc I think you can simply disconnect the Coax from the Actiontec and everything will continue to work correctly since you are now using the TiVO as the MoCA bridge.
Is that the "Use this DVR to create a MoCA network" option?

But then the two THDs would lose network access if the Roamio goes down.

With Ethernet working and I turn on MoCA, I get: "There is no MoCA network adapter connected to this DVR. (C1) Restart the DVR..."

Roamio can't find its own MoCA network adapter?
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Old 11-26-2013, 05:17 PM   #6
Time_Lord
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You are missing something, you can only have one device join your MoCA and Ethernet networks together, and based upon what you have described you have two devices bridging Ethernet to MoCA together. I'm not sure bridge is the right word since a network bridge means something very specific and would normally include protection against a loop (Spanning Tree Protocol) but for this discussion it's accurate enough.

You must either

1) disable MoCA on the Actiontec which may not be possible if your handoff from the ONT is MoCA OR
2) disable MoCa on the TiVO Roamio so it simply says Connection type "Ethernet" and not "ethernet & MoCA"

Also even when using the TiVO as a MoCA bridge the network status page will show the MoCA interface as down (at least on 20.3.7.2).... I suspect this is is incorrect and is a bug

-TL
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