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Old 11-21-2013, 06:35 PM   #121
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Given that they've had 8 years to work on them I'm pretty surprised they're so half baked.
Except that they haven't had 8 years. They have been putting a lot of resources into the Xbox 360 for a long time after it's launch. They weren't immediately writing code for XBone on the day the Xbox 360 launched. Come on, you know better than that.
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Old 11-21-2013, 06:38 PM   #122
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I know that. But they're both missing such basic functionality it just feels like bad planning.
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Old 11-21-2013, 07:01 PM   #123
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Here is a quote from Microsoft's Albert Penello...



So for HDMI out you'll get all audio formats. For HDMI pass-through there is a "beta" feature to enable DD but it doesn't work with all TVs/Receivers so it's disabled by default. Optical out is where the problem is. If you use optical out you will not get DD audio, only stereo or DTS. This is a problem because a lot of high end headsets use optical connections with built in DD decoders. For those you'll have to set output to stereo and depend on ProLogic to get fake surround sound.

Unfortunately the whole headset experience is going to be crippled on the XB1 at launch. Not only is DD sound not working on the optical port but they wont have the chat adapter available until February.

It really does feel like it was pushed to market before it was really ready to meet the holiday deadline.
Where does he say it enables DD?

He says:

Quote:
Anyone with an HDMI receiver should be fine, as we pass the uncompressed 5.1 and 7.1 through HDMI as well as DTS. Even if you have a Dolby only HDMI receiver (which I'm not sure exists), you will still get 5.1 or 7.1 sound since those receivers should accept uncompressed surround.
Its uncompressed audio (PCM) and DTS there is no mention that it passes DD.

It's okay for people with HDMI because all HDMI receivers accept uncompressed 5.1 via HDMI.


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For HDMI pass-through there is a "beta" feature to enable DD but it doesn't work with all TVs/Receivers so it's disabled by default. Optical out is where the problem is.
Many sites reported that it doesn't enable DD. It's combining the DD 5.1 signal from your cable box with the xbox one audio and outputting uncompressed 5.1.
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Old 11-21-2013, 07:09 PM   #124
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You're right. He said the pass through beta feature would enable "surround sound" not DD, I just misinterpreted that.

So I think my original theory might be right and they do not have a DD license at all yet.

However that should not preclude them from passing through DD from BD discs that use it. As long as they don't alter the audio. Although I guess they might be overlaying onto the audio, just like they do with the pass through, in which case BDs would have the same issue.

Personally my receiver accepts 5.1/7.1 PCM just fine, so that wont be a problem for me. The only place this will be a problem for me is with my Turtle Beach headset. For that I guess I have to switch to 2.0 and allow it to do ProLogic. But those were already going to be a little FUed because of the lack of a chat adapter.
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Old 11-21-2013, 07:15 PM   #125
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Personally my receiver accepts 5.1/7.1 PCM just fine, so that wont be a problem for me. The only place this will be a problem for me is with my Turtle Beach headset. For that I guess I have to switch to 2.0 and allow it to do ProLogic. But those were already going to be a little FUed because of the lack of a chat adapter.
Something I found concerning though:

Quote:
Here is what stephen_totilo who has an Xbox One said on /r/xboxone

Correct. I reported this in the New York Times last week and was sure to get clarification about it from Microsoft in the process. In my case, my Time Warner Cable box's surround sound is downgraded to stereo by my Xbox One, but I am able to go into a troubleshooting menu within settings/TV&OneGuide and select a Surround Sound (Beta) option. That did push my cable audio back out into my 5.1 speakers. Caveat: I'm no audiophile, so I can't compare the mixes. for you that well. I preferred the one I got directly from my Bose surround sound system when I had my cable box plugged directly into that.
This is why I will leave my Roamio plugged in directly and plug in a mini to my xbox one. For serious watching I'll use the Roamio, for casual the xbox one.
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Old 11-21-2013, 07:21 PM   #126
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Oh yeah. The decoder can make a big difference, especially if you have a good A/V receiver and have it calibrated to use specific EQ settings.

Personally I plan to use this for BDs and games. I'm hoping that for BDs they offer an option to pass through audio as-is without decoding inside the XBox, but I'll live with it for now if they don't. (hopefully they add an option in the future if it's not already doing this) For games I really need DD audio for it to be compatible with my Turtle Beach headset. I'm willing to live with stereo/PL for now, but I hope this gets fixed soon.
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Old 11-21-2013, 07:44 PM   #127
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So I think my original theory might be right and they do not have a DD license at all yet.
I highly, HIGHLY doubt that is the problem. Given all of the things that Microsoft does that involves Dolby Digital, licensing it and dealing with any Dolby requirements is probably not an issue. If they can decode it with the beta option turned on for HDMI passthrough, even if it's outputting in PCM instead of compressed DD, they would need a license.
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Old 11-21-2013, 08:56 PM   #128
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The device almost has to be Dolby licensed for BD playback. If they're going to give any kind of option for output of Dolby for people who are using S/PDIF or whose legacy AVRs can only handle basic DD and basic DTS over HDMI they need to be able to convert the more advanced sound formats into basic DD or basic DTS.
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Old 11-22-2013, 12:08 AM   #129
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Decoding is different then encoding. We have a DD decoding license in VRD. It's really easy to get. It's the encoding license that's a PITA.
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Old 11-22-2013, 01:24 AM   #130
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Decoding is different then encoding. We have a DD decoding license in VRD. It's really easy to get. It's the encoding license that's a PITA.
I still highly doubt that Microsoft would have any problem at all getting a Dolby license of any kind.
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Old 11-22-2013, 01:45 AM   #131
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It's not that they'd have a problem, but as I said the process is complicated and requires recertification for every change, so they might have just been waiting for the software to stabilize before submitting for certification.
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Old 11-22-2013, 02:37 AM   #132
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So I have my Xbox One hooked up and everything already setup.

First, the TV setup is super smooth and simple.

Secondly, I have had zero problems with voice commands, even with the tv audio going and my kinect is sitting on top of my center channel speaker

Thirdly, the TV integration is a life changing feature. You can snap TV to the side while you do other things like browse netflix or setup match making in a game or even play a game. Just in the past 45 minutes of messing around, I cannot imagine living without it.

There is NO dolby digital output from the Xbox under any outputs. You have options as to what to set

For HDMI these are the output options:


For optical output these are the output options:


Finally, there is an option for blu-ray dolby digital:


However, I put in my Tron: Legacy Blu-Ray, which is DTS in English but the French audio is Dolby Digital 5.1. I have the Xbone HDMI output set to DTS, I played Tron: Legacy with French Dolby Digital and my receiver said DTS while french language was coming out of it.
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Old 11-22-2013, 03:14 AM   #133
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It's not that they'd have a problem, but as I said the process is complicated and requires recertification for every change, so they might have just been waiting for the software to stabilize before submitting for certification.
I'm pretty sure Microsoft is of the size that they can get better terms for their development process. Given how many things are "coming soon" like some of the game DVR/live streaming, etc, I have to assume it was just lack of development resources.
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Old 11-22-2013, 11:02 AM   #134
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So I have my Xbox One hooked up and everything already setup.

First, the TV setup is super smooth and simple.

Secondly, I have had zero problems with voice commands, even with the tv audio going and my kinect is sitting on top of my center channel speaker

Thirdly, the TV integration is a life changing feature. You can snap TV to the side while you do other things like browse netflix or setup match making in a game or even play a game. Just in the past 45 minutes of messing around, I cannot imagine living without it.

There is NO dolby digital output from the Xbox under any outputs. You have options as to what to set

For HDMI these are the output options:


For optical output these are the output options:


Finally, there is an option for blu-ray dolby digital:


However, I put in my Tron: Legacy Blu-Ray, which is DTS in English but the French audio is Dolby Digital 5.1. I have the Xbone HDMI output set to DTS, I played Tron: Legacy with French Dolby Digital and my receiver said DTS while french language was coming out of it.
How is the picture and sound quality of the cable feed when surround beta is on
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Old 11-22-2013, 11:07 AM   #135
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How is the picture and sound quality of the cable feed when surround beta is on
I have not, in my very limited testing, been able to tell a difference.

However, in general I'm probably not the best person to make such determinations. Most of the time "good enough" is fine with me.

I will say, though, that a couple of times that I started "watch TV" I didn't have any audio. I had to stop the TV app (and watching TV through the HDMI passthrough is an app just like netflix or hulu) and reopen it. This is with a 2 Tuner TiVo Premiere as my source.
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Old 11-22-2013, 01:03 PM   #136
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I have not, in my very limited testing, been able to tell a difference.

However, in general I'm probably not the best person to make such determinations. Most of the time "good enough" is fine with me.

I will say, though, that a couple of times that I started "watch TV" I didn't have any audio. I had to stop the TV app (and watching TV through the HDMI passthrough is an app just like netflix or hulu) and reopen it. This is with a 2 Tuner TiVo Premiere as my source.
Well thats good to know. I should be getting my xbox one in 29 minutes at work and will be leaving early to hook it up at home. Once I test out the picture quality I'll give my first impressions of the tv feature.

Overall it sounds like its really convenient but I think keeping a HDMI input that is only TV will be nice for guest.
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Old 11-22-2013, 01:05 PM   #137
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I will say, though, that a couple of times that I started "watch TV" I didn't have any audio. I had to stop the TV app (and watching TV through the HDMI passthrough is an app just like netflix or hulu) and reopen it. This is with a 2 Tuner TiVo Premiere as my source.
From what I've read this is a problem with the "beta" surround feature. I bet if you turned that off it would work better.
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Old 11-22-2013, 01:26 PM   #138
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JosephB,

Thanks for posting the screenshots. Is the Xbox able to control your Tivo at all? I'm planning on attaching my S3 -> Xbox -> TV. I could put it in a different room with a Premiere. I've been assuming I will just need to use the Tivo remote in either case.

Complicating factor is I've got my S3 in a closet so I'm not even sure how I will do all this wiring.
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Old 11-22-2013, 01:37 PM   #139
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...
For the most part this is true BUT if you have a really high end receiver it could do a better job of decoding the bitstream than the ps3. Though most people don't spend 1000K+ on a AVR...
I think a lot of people thought as you did too with the ps3 decoding but in the end it was rendered moot because you're going from a lossy (DD, DTS) digital format to a lossless (PCM). If it were the other way around there would be compression and interpolation and bits thrown away, then you'd be correct.
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Old 11-22-2013, 01:55 PM   #140
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From what I've read this is a problem with the "beta" surround feature. I bet if you turned that off it would work better.
Yeah, I ended up turning it off.

I rarely watch anything on TV that having stereo only for a little while would be detrimental. Sometimes I watch movies on HBO, but I think with my receiver and its HDMI passthrough settings, I may be able to figure out a combination of input selections that I can have the receiver pass the Xbox video (and by extension the TiVo) to the TV yet play the audio from a digital audio input directly from the TiVo, although I'm wondering if I might have sync issues between the audio and video.

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JosephB,

Thanks for posting the screenshots. Is the Xbox able to control your Tivo at all? I'm planning on attaching my S3 -> Xbox -> TV. I could put it in a different room with a Premiere. I've been assuming I will just need to use the Tivo remote in either case.

Complicating factor is I've got my S3 in a closet so I'm not even sure how I will do all this wiring.
Yep, it will control the TiVo just fine. Of course you basically only have the abilities to send remote key commands, so essentially your interactions with the TiVo from the Xbox will be limited to changing the channel on live TV. You could also yell out "Xbox Pause" and limited playback stuff like that, but you definitely will need the remote to navigate recordings and trick play. Given the limitations as they are now, it's not as bad as you would think.
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Old 11-22-2013, 02:59 PM   #141
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I'm OTA-only using a Tivo Premiere. Is the OneGuide smart enough to display OTA channels?
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Old 11-22-2013, 03:32 PM   #142
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I'm OTA-only using a Tivo Premiere. Is the OneGuide smart enough to display OTA channels?
Yep. When you set it up you just provide your zip code. It then gives you all the options you'd see if you were checking your listings on Zap2It

One thing that is a problem, though, is that you can't combine two lineups. So, if you're doing OTA + Cable on a Premiere or TiVo HD, you won't be able to have the OTA channels in the lineup.
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Old 11-22-2013, 03:49 PM   #143
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I just hooked my Xbox one to the premier 4, everything works nicely. I can't wait to play around with it later tonight.
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Old 11-22-2013, 06:27 PM   #144
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I just hooked my Xbox one to the premier 4, everything works nicely. I can't wait to play around with it later tonight.
My connection to my Premiere 4 initially had issues. It turns out the problem was the Amazon Basics HDMI cable. The original HDMI cable supplied with my TiVo works perfectly!
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Old 11-23-2013, 01:05 AM   #145
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I'm going to get an HDMI splitter so that I can play with it, though I doubt that I'll want to burn the power to run the Xbox just to be able to use OneGuide. The NFL app looks pretty cool but I'm not into football.
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Old 11-23-2013, 01:07 AM   #146
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I'm going to get an HDMI splitter so that I can play with it, though I doubt that I'll want to burn the power to run the Xbox just to be able to use OneGuide.
Great idea. I need to look into a splitter as well.
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Old 11-24-2013, 11:10 AM   #147
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I ran component to my TV and hdmi to my Xbox one so I could watch TiVo without using the Xbox and keep the Xbox TV functionality. I am not running a high end video system so it works pretty well for me. I am actually finding the voice command pretty useful so I am using it more than I expected.
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Old 11-24-2013, 08:18 PM   #148
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HDMI cable change fix

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My connection to my Premiere 4 initially had issues. It turns out the problem was the Amazon Basics HDMI cable. The original HDMI cable supplied with my TiVo works perfectly!
A cable change to the one in the Xbox One Box worked for me solving my problems too. The cable on the HDMI out from the Xbox one to the TV did the trick.

The Xbox one integration with my Tivo S3 is working MUCH better than I had anticipated.
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Old 11-24-2013, 10:24 PM   #149
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A cable change to the one in the Xbox One Box worked for me solving my problems too. The cable on the HDMI out from the Xbox one to the TV did the trick.

The Xbox one integration with my Tivo S3 is working MUCH better than I had anticipated.
I've decided to unhook the xbox from my tivo premier for now. Two things are bothering me, their is no pass through function as long as the xbox is off and I don't want to leave it on all the time. Second, I'm getting lag freezes when I go from a recording to live tv. I'm sure that can get fixed via a patch, but the leaving it on function isn't going to fly with me.
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Old 11-24-2013, 11:42 PM   #150
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I've decided to unhook the xbox from my tivo premier for now. Two things are bothering me, their is no pass through function as long as the xbox is off and I don't want to leave it on all the time. Second, I'm getting lag freezes when I go from a recording to live tv. I'm sure that can get fixed via a patch, but the leaving it on function isn't going to fly with me.
I have unhooked my Premiere rom the Xbox One as well. I agree that I do not need the Xbox on all the time in order to watch TV, and until there is deeper integration with TiVo (fingers crossed), most of the TiVo functions remain unusable by voice command.
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