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Old 11-09-2013, 11:43 AM   #9721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keysman View Post
I was able to get my original TiVo drive running long enough to make a truncated backup with WinMFS. Yeah!

If I'm able to get the drive spinning again and keep it spinning long enough to back up the whole thing, can I do that with the MFS Live CD, backup the drive and expand it all in one step using this command?

backup -qTao - /dev/sda | restore -s 128 -r 4 -xzpi - /dev/sdb

or whatever my drive assignments are.

Will I get to a full 1.5TB using that method.
IMO if you have a drive starting to die the chances of bad sectors are also high.

Therefore in the time you have your drive spinning, the best thing to do is dd_rescue the dying drive onto a new drive. dd_rescue can skip errors replacing them with zeros, whereas the regular tools will likely hang/timeout

You don't know how many bites at the apple you are going to get with this drive so best to get as much off as you can as soon as you can.

Once the data is on a new drive you have the luxury of taking your time.
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Old 11-10-2013, 10:59 AM   #9722
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Thanks everyone for the help. I tried to clone the original internal drive. I was able to get it up and running along side the 1.5TB Seagate but it wouldn't stay running long enough to copy the drive. I was however able restore the backup I made of the drive a few days ago. I expanded the drive using MFSAdd and ignored the warning about the drive being larger than 1TB and told it to expand anyway. Now the drive is back in the TiVo, up and running. It said I have, I think, 237 Hours of HD.

I lost all the recordings but it was great to not loose the settings, season passes, ratings, etc.

Thanks again to everyone for the help.
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Old 11-10-2013, 05:54 PM   #9723
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Originally Posted by keysman View Post
Thanks everyone for the help. I tried to clone the original internal drive. I was able to get it up and running along side the 1.5TB Seagate but it wouldn't stay running long enough to copy the drive. I was however able restore the backup I made of the drive a few days ago. I expanded the drive using MFSAdd and ignored the warning about the drive being larger than 1TB and told it to expand anyway. Now the drive is back in the TiVo, up and running. It said I have, I think, 237 Hours of HD.

I lost all the recordings but it was great to not loose the settings, season passes, ratings, etc.

Thanks again to everyone for the help.
Ever since at least version 11.0k of the S3 software, you can ignore the partition too large warning, but to successfully max it out with a 2TB drive, you have to copy, via WinMFS, and turn down the offer to expand, and then expand via mfsadd as a separate step.
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Old 11-15-2013, 04:52 PM   #9724
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unitron:
Regarding expanding to a >1TB drive in a S3 (original) using WinMFS, I've seen you write "you have to do the expand as a separate step instead of accepting the offer at the end of the copy/restore, for some reason" in several messages, but haven't been able to find any explanation.

I didn't see your advice before accepting WinMFS's offer. The resulting partition map looked reasonable (1.6T in the last partition). The TiVo rebooted, seemingly without incident. It now reports 318HD hours capacity. The first attempt to load new program data failed (from what looked like a network problem), and the second attempt is taking a long time, but it is loading now.

Can you explain what you think goes wrong when accepting the offer to expand? It looked like it just ran the same "Mfsadd" work that I would have done later.

If there is something subtle wrong, I can certainly repeat the copy, and I'd rather do that now than later. But it doesn't look to me like anything is wrong.

Thanks for all your help!
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Old 11-15-2013, 05:21 PM   #9725
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If it worked for you then it is fine. What happens for many people is that if you say yes to expand right after you copy, WinMFS just sits and stares at you and does nothing. So by saying no to the expand right after copy, then use MFSAdd to expand, it works all the time. That's all. Nothing more. Why it does that, nobody knows.
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Old 11-15-2013, 10:13 PM   #9726
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If it worked for you then it is fine. What happens for many people is that if you say yes to expand right after you copy, WinMFS just sits and stares at you and does nothing. So by saying no to the expand right after copy, then use MFSAdd to expand, it works all the time. That's all. Nothing more. Why it does that, nobody knows.
But MFS Live seems to have a problem with expanding as part of a copy and expand sometimes as well (although I'm not sure if it can handle 2TB drives to begin with.)

I don't know if the problem goes all the way back to MFS Tools or not.

And another WinMFS trick to look out for is if you're doing a drive to drive copy it'll sometimes sit there and appear frozen, but it's actually working and you just have to give it some time and realize that amazing computer accuracy does not extend to progress bars.
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Old 11-15-2013, 10:17 PM   #9727
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Originally Posted by zwbqgk View Post
unitron:
Regarding expanding to a >1TB drive in a S3 (original) using WinMFS, I've seen you write "you have to do the expand as a separate step instead of accepting the offer at the end of the copy/restore, for some reason" in several messages, but haven't been able to find any explanation.

I didn't see your advice before accepting WinMFS's offer. The resulting partition map looked reasonable (1.6T in the last partition). The TiVo rebooted, seemingly without incident. It now reports 318HD hours capacity. The first attempt to load new program data failed (from what looked like a network problem), and the second attempt is taking a long time, but it is loading now.

Can you explain what you think goes wrong when accepting the offer to expand? It looked like it just ran the same "Mfsadd" work that I would have done later.

If there is something subtle wrong, I can certainly repeat the copy, and I'd rather do that now than later. But it doesn't look to me like anything is wrong.

Thanks for all your help!
That last partition wasn't shown in the partition map (that you get when you click mfsinfo) as an Apple Free partition by any chance, was it?
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Old 11-15-2013, 11:28 PM   #9728
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But MFS Live seems to have a problem with expanding as part of a copy and expand sometimes as well (although I'm not sure if it can handle 2TB drives to begin with.)

I don't know if the problem goes all the way back to MFS Tools or not.

And another WinMFS trick to look out for is if you're doing a drive to drive copy it'll sometimes sit there and appear frozen, but it's actually working and you just have to give it some time and realize that amazing computer accuracy does not extend to progress bars.
MFSLive does not handle 2TB well. It can be recompiled to handle 2TB drives once some variable declarations are modified to a double word length. I have been slowly working on this as the amount of time I can give this project on any one day is very limited. Oh well. If work just would not interfere......
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Old 11-16-2013, 01:38 AM   #9729
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MFSLive does not handle 2TB well.
I had no problem using mfslive-1.4.iso to expand a TiVo HD 2TB drive, after dd.
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Old 11-16-2013, 03:23 AM   #9730
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I had no problem using mfslive-1.4.iso to expand a TiVo HD 2TB drive, after dd.
Not all functions have problems with 2TB drives. I noticed you used dd to copy the drive. Have you try copying the drive with MFSBackup/MFSRestore commands?
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Old 11-16-2013, 03:51 AM   #9731
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Not all functions have problems with 2TB drives. I noticed you used dd to copy the drive. Have you try copying the drive with MFSBackup/MFSRestore commands?
I don't think I tried those commands. I used MFSLive in this experiment:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...90#post9717290
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Old 11-16-2013, 08:19 AM   #9732
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I don't think I tried those commands. I used MFSLive in this experiment:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...90#post9717290
I remember that experiment. Have you noticed any improvement.
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Old 11-16-2013, 09:57 AM   #9733
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Question WinMFS copying

Quote:
Originally Posted by unitron View Post
And another WinMFS trick to look out for is if you're doing a drive to drive copy it'll sometimes sit there and appear frozen, but it's actually working and you just have to give it some time and realize that amazing computer accuracy does not extend to progress bars.
This post is so timely as I'm right now copying a once-expanded 1TB drive in a 652-model to a 2 TB drive using WinMFS. I started last night at 11:17 pm and at 9:52 am this morning it was still copying. The progress bar ( I know I can't trust it) was at about 60%. Both drives are hooked to Sata channels so I thought that would speed things up somewhat. I am copying about 130 HD recordings so is this a reasonable time or is something amiss? Both drives are still spinning and the original 1TB had no issues going into this; just wanted more capacity.

Thanks for your opinions.
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Old 11-16-2013, 08:01 PM   #9734
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This post is so timely as I'm right now copying a once-expanded 1TB drive in a 652-model to a 2 TB drive using WinMFS. I started last night at 11:17 pm and at 9:52 am this morning it was still copying. The progress bar ( I know I can't trust it) was at about 60%. Both drives are hooked to Sata channels so I thought that would speed things up somewhat. I am copying about 130 HD recordings so is this a reasonable time or is something amiss? Both drives are still spinning and the original 1TB had no issues going into this; just wanted more capacity.

Thanks for your opinions.
So, did it ever finish?
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Old 11-16-2013, 11:06 PM   #9735
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Smile

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So, did it ever finish?
No. I "pulled the plug" on it after 17 hours. I guess I either have too little patience or WinMFS doesn't like the big copy jobs. I guess I'll spend the time to transfer off some shows and just use the truncated image to get my 2TB online.

Wish I knew what the magic amount of shows (HD hours) WinMFS can handle in a reasonable amount of time.
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Old 11-16-2013, 11:35 PM   #9736
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No. I "pulled the plug" on it after 17 hours. I guess I either have too little patience or WinMFS doesn't like the big copy jobs. I guess I'll spend the time to transfer off some shows and just use the truncated image to get my 2TB online.

Wish I knew what the magic amount of shows (HD hours) WinMFS can handle in a reasonable amount of time.
I could've swore it was all about a smaller window being hidden behind the larger on, and there WAS some way to force the small window to the foreground, even though it doesn't appear on the taskbar as a window...

I don't remember the trick to do it, but when I did, and still used WinMFS, things happened at a good clip, just so long as none of the drives involved had back sectors or I/O issues...
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Old 11-17-2013, 12:55 AM   #9737
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No. I "pulled the plug" on it after 17 hours. I guess I either have too little patience or WinMFS doesn't like the big copy jobs. I guess I'll spend the time to transfer off some shows and just use the truncated image to get my 2TB online.

Wish I knew what the magic amount of shows (HD hours) WinMFS can handle in a reasonable amount of time.
It should have finished in that length of time, so something must be amiss.
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Old 11-17-2013, 04:38 AM   #9738
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I remember that experiment. Have you noticed any improvement.
It was a one-time upgrade that I did for someone else. I have not used a 4KB drive in TiVo HD myself, so I don't have a reference point for comparison.
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Old 11-19-2013, 09:19 PM   #9739
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Seagate drive does not power up.

My original 250GB internal S3 drive had started having problems. I could hear it reseeking and then eventually crashing the TiVo. I ordered a ST3500312cs and copied the data from the old drive to my Linux box while I waited for delivery. I used the dd command and was happy that there were no disk errors reported.

Having a backup, I put the drive back onto the TiVo to let it limp along till the new one arrived. The drive then ran without problems for 36 hours.

Fearing that it still might fail I copied the drive image to the new drive and installed it. The S3 stuck on "powering up". The drive appeared to not be powered up. Do I need to configure the drive in some way? (I know I would only get 250GB by doing this, I have an external 1TB as well.)
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Old 11-19-2013, 11:06 PM   #9740
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My original 250GB internal S3 drive had started having problems. I could hear it reseeking and then eventually crashing the TiVo. I ordered a ST3500312cs and copied the data from the old drive to my Linux box while I waited for delivery. I used the dd command and was happy that there were no disk errors reported.

Having a backup, I put the drive back onto the TiVo to let it limp along till the new one arrived. The drive then ran without problems for 36 hours.

Fearing that it still might fail I copied the drive image to the new drive and installed it. The S3 stuck on "powering up". The drive appeared to not be powered up. Do I need to configure the drive in some way? (I know I would only get 250GB by doing this, I have an external 1TB as well.)
That external drive greatly complicates things.

When you say you copied the data from the old internal to your Linux box, do you mean you used something like

dd

or

ddrescue

and created a file at least 250GB in size?

It really would have been better if you'd stopped using the old internal right then to save whatever life it has left, but that's water under the bridge.

Even if we're successful, I'm pretty sure that external means you'll only be able to use the first 250GB of that 500GB Seagate, and I may have to PM you how to do something risky with

hdparm
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Old 11-20-2013, 11:50 AM   #9741
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As I said, I used dd. The file is 250GB. Having gotten a backup of the internal drive I figured there was probably little downside to using it some more. Sequentially reading the whole drive seems to have been good for it as its still running without error.

I am not really concerned about getting the extra 250GB from the Seagate, I'd just like to to spin when I hook it up to my TiVo. You think there is an hdparm setting that I need to tweek?
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Old 11-20-2013, 12:04 PM   #9742
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As I said, I used dd. The file is 250GB. Having gotten a backup of the internal drive I figured there was probably little downside to using it some more. Sequentially reading the whole drive seems to have been good for it as its still running without error.

I am not really concerned about getting the extra 250GB from the Seagate, I'd just like to to spin when I hook it up to my TiVo. You think there is an hdparm setting that I need to tweek?
No, what we do is use

hdparm

to create a Host Protected Area on the 500GB drive that makes it look like it has the exact same LBA number as the stock 250, then

dd

the image to it, so that we don't run into a problem with the problem of an external causing a problem if the total drive space used is greater than original internal + external.

Speaking of HPA's, you aren't using a GigaByte brand motherboard, are you?

But first, if you didn't already run Seagate's long test before putting that 500 into service, do it now.

And while you've got the TiVo opened, eyeball the power supply capacitors very closely for the slightest hint of bulging.
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Old 11-20-2013, 12:18 PM   #9743
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I actually did try booting the S3 with the external drive disconnected and got the same result. I don't know if that means anything.

Ok, so we want to resize the drive so it looks like a 250GB drive. You want to suggest the correct incantation?

It seems like this could be done after the dd since the metadata in the drive is not writable by normal I/O.

My PC is a Dell, I assume they use their own motherboard.
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Old 11-20-2013, 12:28 PM   #9744
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Ok, I spent enough time pawing through the man pages and it seems I want:
hdparm -N 488386584 --yes-i-know-what-i-am-doing /dev/sdb
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Old 11-20-2013, 12:57 PM   #9745
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That had no effect, the drive still does not spin up when I put it in the S3. Are there any other parameters I should check?
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Old 11-20-2013, 02:39 PM   #9746
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That had no effect, the drive still does not spin up when I put it in the S3. Are there any other parameters I should check?
If the drive does not even spin up, then the drive configuration is not the problem. I would suspect a power supply problem. Take a look at the caps on the ps and see if any of them are bulging.
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Old 11-20-2013, 05:00 PM   #9747
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I don't see any bulging. The old drive works just fine. The new drive pull less than 1/3 of the power of the old drive.
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Old 11-20-2013, 06:55 PM   #9748
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Not sure where you got your drive from but I'll give you my experience with another Seagate AV drive. I bought one version that was retail bulk that worked flawlessly. The other one I bought off of an online auction that advertise as new. To make a long story short, the drive was new but was designed for a particular satellite box. The drive would spin up only on my newest computer attached as a SATA drive from boot. It would not spin up if used as an ESATA drive plugged in after boot. It would not work on my older computer at all and would not spin up on the TiVo at all. After multiple calls with Seagate support, the drive had a modified firmware that was designed for the satellite box it was destined for. They would not give me the retail firmware for the drive. Consequently I returned it. Don't know if this applies to you but I thought I would share the experience.
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Old 11-21-2013, 04:19 AM   #9749
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Ok, I spent enough time pawing through the man pages and it seems I want:
hdparm -N 488386584 --yes-i-know-what-i-am-doing /dev/sdb
The LBA number for the two WD 250GB drives I've seen in the two 648s I've had my hands on (WD2500BS-55RPB1) is

488397168

and you left something out of that command line as well.

So I hope no one else saw it and tried to use it before I got here.

What's the model number on the 250 in your 648?
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Old 11-21-2013, 02:28 PM   #9750
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Not sure where you got your drive from but I'll give you my experience with another Seagate AV drive. I bought one version that was retail bulk that worked flawlessly. The other one I bought off of an online auction that advertise as new. To make a long story short, the drive was new but was designed for a particular satellite box. The drive would spin up only on my newest computer attached as a SATA drive from boot. It would not spin up if used as an ESATA drive plugged in after boot. It would not work on my older computer at all and would not spin up on the TiVo at all. After multiple calls with Seagate support, the drive had a modified firmware that was designed for the satellite box it was destined for. They would not give me the retail firmware for the drive. Consequently I returned it. Don't know if this applies to you but I thought I would share the experience.
Interesting. I got it on Amazon. Sold by Eonline. Anyway to tell if it has the stock firmware?
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