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Old 11-09-2013, 06:23 PM   #1
jrock
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Roamio Pro locking up

I received my Roamio Pro on October 31st and it was working fine up until 2 days ago. The last 2 days in a row when I turned my TV on around 5pm the TiVo video was frozen and the front panel green/yellow button would not work. I had to unplug and replug the TiVo in to get it back and things where fine until the next day and same thing again.

The only thing that changed was I received a 2nd remote, I leave one near my bed and one near my couch. When I received the 2nd remote it worked just like the first in RF mode. Only difference I notice is when I push the remote finder button on the TiVo only the original remote makes the sounds. Both remotes are working in RF though.

Does anyone know if this could be causing the lockup? I took the batteries out of the new remote and am going to see if it is locked up again tomorrow. Not sure what else could be causing it.

My cat always sleeps on top of it but he always slept on the Premiere and that was never an issue. Plus it was fine for a whole week until I got a 2nd remote.

Anyone else have anything like this happen?

-Joe
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Old 11-10-2013, 07:48 PM   #2
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Uggg it locked up again a 3rd night in a row I had it on all day today listening to a music channel then tonight right at 8pm when it started to record 3 shows at once it froze while I was watching something previously recorded.

I called up TiVo and talked to tech support. They said when it freezes it usually means it's not getting enough power and if its plugged into a power strip plug it directly into the wall. I had it plugged into a UPS and its the same place my TiVo Premiere was for several months and before that my series 3 HD for several years. I don't know how safe it is plugging it directly into the wall with no surge supressor and when the power goes out now the TiVo will restart even for small brown outs. That's why I always had it on a UPS.

They said the new hardware requires more power and is more sensitive than the older models. So I'm not sure what this means. I only have till the 28th to decide on my money back guarantee but this was $975 with lifetime subscription and extended service plan.

Has anyone else experienced anything like this?

-Joe
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Old 11-10-2013, 09:11 PM   #3
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Well, if the problem started immediately coincident with firing up and using up the second remote...... But if the problem continues, R&R it before the 30 day cut off. I had a Plus that went infant mortality south after a few days and returned it. Replacement is working fine.

As to your experience with the idiot dope smoking Indian TiVo CS rep....he/she was an idiot dope smoking CS rep.
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Old 11-11-2013, 06:13 AM   #4
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I stopped using the second remote and even took the batteries out. I never even paired it, just worked out of the box. For now I did what the CSR said and plugged it directly into the wall outlet. If that fixes it, something is seriously wrong when electronics can't use Surge Supressors or a UPS.

As for the CSR whenever I have contacted TiVo its always an american and I can totally understand them. They just read the screen though I'm sure so some tech had to of put that in there.

I called when I first got the box because when I pushed the yellow button the remote finder wasn't working. The first thing they asked me was if it was plugged directly into the wall or in a surge supressor so this must be some issue that is going on with the new boxes. The remote finder didnt work until I restarted the box. So maybe I do have a bad one.

-Joe
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Old 11-11-2013, 06:38 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrock View Post
I called up TiVo and talked to tech support. They said when it freezes it usually means it's not getting enough power and if its plugged into a power strip plug it directly into the wall.
It belongs plugged into a UPS. Although it could be your UPS is defective and when it trips, it supplies dirty enough power to cause issues.

Since you eliminated that, It sounds like you have a defective unit to me and will need a replacement.

Quote:
They said the new hardware requires more power and is more sensitive than the older models. So I'm not sure what this means.
It is mostly BS
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Old 11-11-2013, 06:04 PM   #6
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+1 on replacing the unit. Could be the power supply or the hard drive in the Pro going bad early, either way, replacing the unit fixes both.
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Old 11-11-2013, 07:42 PM   #7
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Quote:
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I stopped using the second remote and even took the batteries out. I never even paired it, just worked out of the box. For now I did what the CSR said and plugged it directly into the wall outlet. If that fixes it, something is seriously wrong when electronics can't use Surge Supressors or a UPS.

As for the CSR whenever I have contacted TiVo its always an american and I can totally understand them. They just read the screen though I'm sure so some tech had to of put that in there.

I called when I first got the box because when I pushed the yellow button the remote finder wasn't working. The first thing they asked me was if it was plugged directly into the wall or in a surge supressor so this must be some issue that is going on with the new boxes. The remote finder didnt work until I restarted the box. So maybe I do have a bad one.

-Joe

Taking back the part about dope smoking Indians when it comes to TiVo CS folk....I can actually sorta understand their asking about surge suppressors. There is some real, 99 cent, junk out there passing themselves off as such and a CS rep has no way of knowing if you're using something APC or something made out of fermented Chinese toe nail clippings.

Given you're using good surge suppressor or UPS, those or a wall outlet aren't germane to your issue.

I agree, btw, that one should be using an UPS for electronic devices one cares about. Learned the hard way...via a lightning strike on a cable head about 25 yards out behind the house back in '97.
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Old 11-12-2013, 05:50 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrock View Post
Uggg it locked up again a 3rd night in a row I had it on all day today listening to a music channel then tonight right at 8pm when it started to record 3 shows at once it froze while I was watching something previously recorded.

I called up TiVo and talked to tech support. They said when it freezes it usually means it's not getting enough power and if its plugged into a power strip plug it directly into the wall. I had it plugged into a UPS and its the same place my TiVo Premiere was for several months and before that my series 3 HD for several years. I don't know how safe it is plugging it directly into the wall with no surge supressor and when the power goes out now the TiVo will restart even for small brown outs. That's why I always had it on a UPS.

They said the new hardware requires more power and is more sensitive than the older models. So I'm not sure what this means. I only have till the 28th to decide on my money back guarantee but this was $975 with lifetime subscription and extended service plan.

Has anyone else experienced anything like this?

-Joe
I live in Florida and all of my electronics are hooked into a power conditioner with a battery backup. We have numerous power surges especially in the summer and I wouldn't even consider plugging a component into the wall. The Roamio Pro is plugged into the battery backup outlet on the conditioner so if the power surges the Roamio doesn't reboot. If Tivo thinks plugging a unit into the wall will resolve the problem they are wrong. If you had a bad UPS you would know it because there would be an indicator light telling you it is bad unless you have a really cheap surge protector.

Last edited by Floridaman : 11-13-2013 at 05:20 PM.
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Old 11-12-2013, 07:40 AM   #9
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I wouldn't blame the TiVo rep for suggesting to eliminate using a UPS/surge protector. That's just a troubleshooting technique to eliminate one of the variables.
I would blame him for the misleading info, though. He shouldn't be making stuff up. Of course he could actually believe what he's saying, and that's a sad state of affairs if that is the case.
Temporarily plugging the Tivo directly into the wall plug won't hurt anything as long as you don't have something going on (like bad weather) when you do it. When troubleshooting a Tivo, you want to eliminate all external possibilities that *could* affect the troubleshooting process.

Not getting enough power is a good one. What do Tivos use now, 24 watts?
A typical electrical circuit has something like 1800 watts available for use as long as there are no problems with the electrical service delivery (e.g. low voltage).
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Old 11-12-2013, 10:10 AM   #10
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Well oddly enough since I have plugged it into the wall it hasn't locked up. Its been one and a half days so I'm still waiting to see if it does again.

I have a good UPS its pretty old but I just changed the batteries back in may. It's a belkin with 1000va and has a lot of plugs so I do have a lot plugged into it. TV, Soundbar, Game Computer, Monitor, Phones, etc. I had the TiVo premiere plugged into the same exact place for the previous 6 months with no issues and before that a directv dvr for several years.

I have also been trying to deter my cat from sleeping on it. I used to have a directv dvr that ran pretty hot and he slept on it for ages with no issues. When I replaced it with the TiVo Premiere it had no heat at all but he still slept there out of habit. There where no issues with that either. Has anyone ever had an issue with a cat causing a TiVo to lock up? For now I have a can of compressed air on top of it and anytime he gets close I make a psssst noise and he goes flying out of the room so maybe that will work.

I'll give it a few more days then go back to the UPS if there are no lockups or maybe just get a small UPS for the TiVo itself. I think I have a small office one like a 350va somewhere.

-Joe
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Old 11-12-2013, 11:10 PM   #11
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Having the same problem here. System completely locked up twice so far in two weeks. Both times in the middle of the day while no one was home. I'll see if a wall outlet makes a difference, but nothing else seems to be bothered by the UPS power.
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Old 11-13-2013, 09:42 AM   #12
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Well it will be 3 days without a lockup tonight so I guess I will plug it back into the UPS and see what happens.

There are 3 variables though that changed. The UPS, the cat staying off it, and leaving it unplugged for several minutes that it took me to get to the outlet deep behind the desk to move the plug from the UPS to the wall. The previous times I unplugged it I only waited 10 seconds or so.

The can of sprayed air on there seems to be working wonders for the cat Though I was thinking I could also store my old series 3 HD spare TiVo on top of this one to use as a buffer in case the cat really didn't want to stay off.

On another note I tried to cancel the monthly sub for the old Series 3 because now I have a Premiere and a Roamio both with life times. The CSR did almost everything to get me not to cancel. They finally said they would give me 2 free months and if I can find someone to take it they will give me a $99 life time membership for it. I was like I'll try but I dunno. She was like you can give it to someone for a Christmas gift. I actually upgraded that one with a larger hard drive from weaknees but it only has two tuners and needs two cable cards so its kind of a drag compared to the newer ones.

-Joe
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Old 11-13-2013, 09:46 AM   #13
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I'm surprised it took TiVo that long to offer you the $99 deal. They have been doing that for a while.

If you haven't already, you should take them up on it. You'll be able to sell it for a profit.
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Old 11-15-2013, 12:41 PM   #14
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Well it was fine for three nights so on Wednesday night I went to staples and bought a 600va APC UPS and put it on that. It was ok for over 24 hours then this morning I woke up and it was frozen

So I dunno what's up with it. When it locks up again I may try just connecting it to the surge protection only portion of the UPS. I don't feel comfortable leaving it plugged directly into the wall with no protection. It makes no sense at all that a UPS would cause this.

I only have until the 25th to return this or will have wasted $975. If I ask for a replacement does it reset my month to give it back? I'm just worried if for some reason the new hardware just doesn't like my power or cable and a replacement does the same thing I'll be stuck with it and not be able to use it.

To top it off I ordered the new slide remote and got the roamio one so it doesn't come with the dongle if I should go back to my old premiere. Plus that thing is so damn slow and only has 4 tuners! I want the Roamio to work
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Old 11-15-2013, 12:58 PM   #15
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I just called TiVo back and talked to another tech and he doesn't think it has anything to do with the UPS. He thinks it was just a coincidence that it didn't lock up for those 3 days. He checked my signal and he says its my 100% signal and 42 SNR. He thinks it is overloading the cards causing a freeze. He suggested getting a 10db Attenuator so I guess I will try that.
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Old 11-15-2013, 01:12 PM   #16
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I just called TiVo back and talked to another tech and he doesn't think it has anything to do with the UPS. He thinks it was just a coincidence that it didn't lock up for those 3 days. He checked my signal and he says its my 100% signal and 42 SNR. He thinks it is overloading the cards causing a freeze. He suggested getting a 10db Attenuator so I guess I will try that.
I don't think you have to run out and buy an attenuator. If you have a splitter laying around I'd try that first, but just be sure to connect the other outputs to a load (TV, 75ohm terminator, etc) for proper impedance matching, no signal reflections and noise reduction.
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Old 11-15-2013, 05:12 PM   #17
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Just locked up again while I was watching a show. The video froze but the yellow remote light was still blinking so I thought it was problem with something when it recorded. I tried rewinding and the bar looked like it was moving but the video still stayed frozen. Finally the yellow light stopped working and I had to unplug it again. Stuck it in the surge only just to see if it changes anything.

I don't have any splitters and I couldn't find an attenuator locally so I ordered one from Amazon. It's just odd that it didn't freeze for 3 whole days when it was plugged in the wall.

-Joe
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Old 11-15-2013, 07:44 PM   #18
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You have two first choices....R&R the TiVo or R&R the cablecard. One or the other or both will fix your problem. I'm betting it's the box.
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Old 11-16-2013, 12:24 AM   #19
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Somewhere in the back of my mind I seem to recall that depending on the type of UPS, the output may not be a nice sine wave that comes out of the wall. Perhaps the power supply of the Roamio is sensitive to the type of wave that it receives. It could be even when the UPS switches from line to battery and back causing an imperfect sine wave. Some UPSes will switch to battery if the voltage drops a little or if it is programmed to do a self test every now and then. If this is the case, there are specific (and very expensive) UPS devices that are made to give a clean and consistent sine wave even when switching to and from battery power.
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Old 11-16-2013, 04:33 AM   #20
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Im starting to have this problem myself. 48 day old roamio pro has locked up twice in the past 7 days. In my case, its happened on Friday evening while record 4 hd channels. im starting to get fed up with TiVo and thinking about going HTPC with the new 6 tuner centon card. All I want is for everything to work as its suppose to... My unit is plugged into a surge protector. (battery backup ups). I had to restart it twice last night. 1st time when it locked up, the 2nd time 53 minutes later when it locked up again. Last Friday the same exact identical problem occurred. Any suggestions?
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Old 11-16-2013, 05:59 AM   #21
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It is possible for a UPS to could be causing this. Does it have monitoring or a log to tell you when it switched over, how long, and why?
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Old 11-16-2013, 06:37 AM   #22
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Somewhere in the back of my mind I seem to recall that depending on the type of UPS, the output may not be a nice sine wave that comes out of the wall.
This is correct. Full sine wave UPS models are much more expensive. However, I don't think this is the problem in his/this case.
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Old 11-16-2013, 07:17 AM   #23
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This is odd. From day 1, I've always kept my TiVo's on a UPS -- along with a network switch and a Control4 controller. In some cases the UPS was an inexpensive APC for $40, but most recently I've been using the Panamax MX5102. It's pricey, but no problems with the Roamio so far.

You can also look at Tripp-Lite - a lot less expensive than Panamax, but no line filtering.
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Old 11-16-2013, 07:36 AM   #24
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This is correct. Full sine wave UPS models are much more expensive. However, I don't think this is the problem in his/this case.
I agree it would be unusual for this to be the case. It would be a compelling argument if a majority of the people who have this problem find that by excluding the UPS their problems improve dramatically.
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Old 11-16-2013, 07:51 AM   #25
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I have several UPS's in my house and almost every piece of electronics on one I have 3 really large Belkin tower UPS's one in each room for all my electronics and computers. I just changed the batteries in all 3 within the last year. The Premiere and Series 3 never had issues with it. I just bought the brand new 600 VA APC for the Roamio.

For now I have it on the surge only portion. I'll see if it locks up again with that. If it does I'll stick it in the wall again and see. If it will at least work with a surge suppressor I can live with that. We don't get to many brown outs except with bad storms and I could live with reboots several times a year.

The Tech thinks its the 100 signal and 42 SNR so I also have the attenuators on order. I only have until the 25th to figure out if its a Roamio problem or something on my end (cable/power).

It really sucks though, I went to the other room to copy some programs to my old Premiere for safe keeping in case I have to R&R or return the Roamio and OMG its so painfully slow going back to that. It's like going from high speed internet back to dialup.

-Joe
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Old 11-16-2013, 08:45 AM   #26
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I have several UPS's in my house and almost every piece of electronics on one I have 3 really large Belkin tower UPS's one in each room for all my electronics and computers. I just changed the batteries in all 3 within the last year. The Premiere and Series 3 never had issues with it. I just bought the brand new 600 VA APC for the Roamio.

For now I have it on the surge only portion. I'll see if it locks up again with that. If it does I'll stick it in the wall again and see. If it will at least work with a surge suppressor I can live with that. We don't get to many brown outs except with bad storms and I could live with reboots several times a year.

The Tech thinks its the 100 signal and 42 SNR so I also have the attenuators on order. I only have until the 25th to figure out if its a Roamio problem or something on my end (cable/power).

It really sucks though, I went to the other room to copy some programs to my old Premiere for safe keeping in case I have to R&R or return the Roamio and OMG its so painfully slow going back to that. It's like going from high speed internet back to dialup.

-Joe
SInce the issue has when on a UPS, it seems like something might be defective with the Tivo. I've always used my TiVos on a UPS and I've also never owned a UPS that sent out a Sine Wave since those are very expensive. But currently I have a Roamio Pro and a Roamio Basic on a couple of APC 1500XL units with extended runtime batteries to get close to a day of runtime on my TiVos(although if I turn on my TV, receiver and other components I'll only get around two hours of runtime during a power outage). So far the Roamios have been working fine.
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Old 11-16-2013, 09:19 AM   #27
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SInce the issue has when on a UPS, it seems like something might be defective with the Tivo. I've always used my TiVos on a UPS and I've also never owned a UPS that sent out a Sine Wave since those are very expensive.
If I can confirm it's only locking up while on the UPS maybe I have a faulty Power Supply. I won't go back to the UPS for the remainder of my testing and see if it locks up anymore. What is getting me though is that it was perfect from the 31st to the 7th (the first week I got it) while on the UPS then all of a sudden why would it just stop working a week in unless the power supply just went bad.

Still be interested in having all the people that are getting the lockups to go to surge only and see if that fixes it. I'll keep posting here to let you know if it locks up again while on surge only for me. This could all be a coincidence like the TiVo Tech said so I don't want to jump the gun.

-Joe
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Old 11-16-2013, 08:54 PM   #28
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Ahhh...really going down the rabbit hole here, dude
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Old 11-17-2013, 10:59 AM   #29
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Well it's not locking up anymore! Now its just rebooting, twice in the last half hour

Just have the attenuator to try when it comes in this week then if that doesn't fix it I'm sending it back for a replacement.

How does the replacement work? You have to send this one back then they send you another or do they have advanced replacement? What about shipping and a box to ship it in? I kept the original box but not the one that it was shipped in.

-Joe
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Old 11-18-2013, 09:53 AM   #30
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Well it just locked up again this morning off the UPS so its not that. Was just a coincidence that it was fine for 3 days off it last week. The attenuators tracking show they will be delivered today so that's the last test before replacing it. When it booted back up today I noticed macro blocking for the first time on the channel it started on. So maybe like the tech said its to hot a signal for the cable card and causing all the issues.

-Joe
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