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Old 11-10-2013, 01:50 PM   #631
nooneuknow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supie View Post
Does this mean that even if I get the 1.5.2_F.p.1101 Cable Card it is going revert to to 1.5.2_F.p.3001 firmware upgrade?
Simply speaking: Yes, cablecards with an out-of-date firmware revision, will be flashed to whatever version the MSO head-end is configured to allow. It usually happens within minutes of the card being inserted.

Real world scenario thinking: That's no guarantee that you will get the most recent version out there, though. Your MSO is in charge of what version they will use as "current", and are not obligated to update (unless it falls under FCC mandate). They can keep you on an outdated revision as "current", otherwise. If they do fall under the FCC mandate, they are still allowed to keep you waiting while they engineer, test, & then perform a limited test group deployment in the field (which is usually people who work for the MSO). To get an exception, as an outside person, you'd need to persuade them to put your card's S/N into a test group, which is isolated from the general public, still running an older release.
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Old 11-10-2013, 02:31 PM   #632
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PM'd you with info to contact Cablevision
Can I get the Cablevision contact info as well?
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Old 11-10-2013, 02:53 PM   #633
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PM'd you with info to contact Cablevision
Got the contact info. Thanks.
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Old 11-10-2013, 02:55 PM   #634
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse.D View Post
I talked to 3 different support groups at TWC NEW (Time Warner Cable, Northeast Wisconsin) and the final consensus is that I have to being the cable card back to the office. Then I have to swap it out, with no guarantee of the firmware on the new card. The local offices have no way to check the firmware on the cards or update them. The system also (apparently) can't update to a newer firmware if it's older than 2 versions from what is currently deployed.

Oh, but they're not sure what's currently deployed, but it can't be that one, it's too old.

Head-ache.
It could be true for TWC, certain other regional markets & MSOs, that their system cannot update a card older than 2 revisions behind.

I can say with 100% certainty, that my Cox market always provides cards at least 2 revisions old (if they have never been used/are new) and has no problems flashing them to the current versions (SA/Cisco).

I guess that makes me truly lucky, or TWC doesn't know what they are talking about, or they just made that their "policy", for some reason.

So, I guess it's a YMMV situation.
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Old 11-10-2013, 04:13 PM   #635
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoranJ2000 View Post
For what it's worth, I e-mailed we_can_help@comcast.com on 11/8 explaining my situation and requesting to be upgraded to the 1.5.3.1011 firmware in Bonita Springs.

I received a call the next day (on a Saturday morning, no less) from a human female who gave me her name and direct number, and who informed me that my request had been forwarded to escalated technical support (or something like that).

She said I should hear from them within 48 business hours, and that she'd be calling me on Wednesday to check in and see if I had.

Maybe I'm on now on the path to getting that firmware upgrade, or perhaps more BS and disappointment is in store. Time will tell, and I'll post here with updates.

Joe
Anybody know a we_can_help@comcast.com equivalent for Charter?
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Old 11-10-2013, 04:42 PM   #636
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Another FYI, for everybody:

You generally shouldn't have to ask for a cablecard firmware update, just like you generally shouldn't have to ask for a cable modem firmware update (but, their are always some exceptions to the norm).

1. Firmware for public release is sent out automatically, once it is determined ready (and necessary).

2. When you ask for an update, and they call back and say OK, you are often essentially signing up to be a beta, or pre-release tester (most of the time). This often isolates you from the general public, and you should expect that the MSO will be working-on/upgrading/tweaking the head-end you are routed to. So, just because you got what you asked for, doesn't mean you can expect constant and reliable service, should you be in a testing group.

3. If you are in one of these testing groups, and are not under any sort of Non-Disclosure Agreement (NDA), you should specify this important detail (#2) when reporting how your TiVo is working (or not working). If under NDA, you should only be discussing it with your MSO and TiVo.

4. I'm aware there are exceptions, like cablecards that are too old, or are too many revisions behind. I guess the FCC should've mandated that customers with retail equipment be notified when their cablecards become obsolete...

Hopefully this info helps somebody, or makes them aware of what they may be signing up for.
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Old 11-11-2013, 07:07 AM   #637
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
........You generally shouldn't have to ask for a cablecard firmware update, just like you generally shouldn't have to ask for a cable modem firmware update (but, their are always some exceptions to the norm).

1. Firmware for public release is sent out automatically, once it is determined ready (and necessary).
............
Yeah in a dream world. Not with TWC, which is generally an exception to all this.
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Old 11-11-2013, 03:05 PM   #638
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Yeah in a dream world. Not with TWC, which is generally an exception to all this.
No arguments here. I guess I should have said "necessary for their OWN equipment", which makes the statement more real-world.
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Old 11-11-2013, 04:21 PM   #639
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoranJ2000 View Post
For what it's worth, I e-mailed we_can_help@comcast.com on 11/8 explaining my situation and requesting to be upgraded to the 1.5.3.1011 firmware in Bonita Springs.

I received a call the next day (on a Saturday morning, no less) from a human female who gave me her name and direct number, and who informed me that my request had been forwarded to escalated technical support (or something like that).

She said I should hear from them within 48 business hours, and that she'd be calling me on Wednesday to check in and see if I had.

Maybe I'm on now on the path to getting that firmware upgrade, or perhaps more BS and disappointment is in store. Time will tell, and I'll post here with updates.

Joe
Did the same and got a call on Sunday morning. Basicly telling me the same thing - call back in a few days. Left me name and number for follow-up
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Old 11-11-2013, 04:31 PM   #640
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Comcast has responded in the Comcast forums. Link above.

"We have been made aware of TiVo's recent assessment.

The referenced Cisco cablecard version 1.5.3.1101 is a fairly new release. It is just now ready for Comcast trials.

We need to evaluate the risks across all of our products, but if all goes well, we are planning to bundle the .1101 version with the upcoming referenced updates in Memphis and the remainder of Florida and then to our remaining locations.

That is all currently still targeted to begin in early 2014. "

That really doesn't help me in Houston or other areas that will probably follow x years later.
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Old 11-11-2013, 05:01 PM   #641
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Originally Posted by andyf View Post
Comcast has responded in the Comcast forums. Link above.

"We have been made aware of TiVo's recent assessment.

The referenced Cisco cablecard version 1.5.3.1101 is a fairly new release. It is just now ready for Comcast trials.

We need to evaluate the risks across all of our products, but if all goes well, we are planning to bundle the .1101 version with the upcoming referenced updates in Memphis and the remainder of Florida and then to our remaining locations.

That is all currently still targeted to begin in early 2014. "

That really doesn't help me in Houston or other areas that will probably follow x years later.
So, they said pretty much the same thing as Cox, which was that they were not aware of the product's requirements, and now that they are it will take time. -This is almost verbatim to what Cox said when the Premiere 4-tuner units hit the shelves. They even had to update their cards for the original 2-tuner Premiere, even though the TiVo HD had 2-tuners as well and could support a single M-card, or two S-cards (unlike the S3, which could only use the latter).

Even if I don't own a certain TiVo product, I always contact Cox just to see what they say when I tell them how many tuners, and ask if they are prepared to support it.

As a favor to the thread, I'm not going to start speculating on whose claims/statements hold water. I guess I'll hang-back and wait for the TiVo approved firmware to hit my existing TiVos, rather than put myself in the middle of yet another MSO/TiVo round of finger pointing, and running on fewer tuners than I paid for... What the heck happened, that the FCC, who had to approve TiVo's products, didn't see this coming, post cablecard reform mandate? Also, shouldn't CableLabs have been involved with both sides?
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Old 11-11-2013, 05:14 PM   #642
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MoranJ and I are served by the same head end. Bonita Springs. Since I have the 1.5.3 firmware and MoranJ does not, I'd say Comcast is distributing the 1.5.3 firmware on a case by case basis so far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoranJ2000 View Post
For what it's worth, I e-mailed we_can_help@comcast.com on 11/8 explaining my situation and requesting to be upgraded to the 1.5.3.1011 firmware in Bonita Springs.

I received a call the next day (on a Saturday morning, no less) from a human female who gave me her name and direct number, and who informed me that my request had been forwarded to escalated technical support (or something like that).

She said I should hear from them within 48 business hours, and that she'd be calling me on Wednesday to check in and see if I had.

Maybe I'm on now on the path to getting that firmware upgrade, or perhaps more BS and disappointment is in store. Time will tell, and I'll post here with updates.

Joe

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Old 11-11-2013, 10:23 PM   #643
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Another call from the Executive Group this afternoon to let me know that he had spoken with Engineering and would be getting back to me soon. Probably to tell me next year some time.
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Old 11-12-2013, 08:08 AM   #644
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That is all currently still targeted to begin in early 2014. "

That really doesn't help me in Houston or other areas that will probably follow x years later.
Yeah, looks like I won't be using 6 tuners either for quite a while. Ugh.
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Old 11-12-2013, 10:27 AM   #645
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Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
What the heck happened, that the FCC, who had to approve TiVo's products, didn't see this coming, post cablecard reform mandate? Also, shouldn't CableLabs have been involved with both sides?
The FCC is not involved. It's CableLabs. After browsing their website, I've determined that:

- Tivo self-certifies their own products.
- Tivo is allowed to use any single CableCard they want to for their entire certification. They must support at least two tuners for an M-card. Tivo must also test all their claimed supported tuners simultaneously using specific combinations. They obviously did not use FIOS for this as they would have failed.
- I couldn't find any requirements or tests for the CableCards themselves. There must be tests for them, right? Right?
- Interoperability between Tivo and each CableCard mfr. is tested using just one tuner. Oops.


Here's the Qualified M-Card Product list from CableLabs's website:

QUALIFIED M-CARD PRODUCT LIST Date: Feb 2012
COMPANY SOFTWARE_REVISION
CCAD 6.25
Cisco OS 1.5.2.3001
Conax/Corecross 3.0.26L-3.2S-5.8M
Evolution Digital/Conax 1.55R
Nagravision 22.00.01.01.00.00
NDS/Corecross 1


So yeah, the mandated interoperability testing is far from complete. Tivo knows this, but instead of conducting their own testing prior to launching, they launched the Roamio anyway and used their customers as interoperability testers. I hope you are all getting paid for that.

In Tivo's defense, the cable providers probably wouldn't have fixed the problems in a timely fashion if Tivo had held up the launch. By putting actual product out there, that forced the cable companies to take action. Or it could be that Tivo simply had no clue there would be this many problems but didn't want to spend money on proper testing.

Either way, it looks like everyone is taking the problems seriously and they will eventually get fixed.
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Old 11-12-2013, 10:35 AM   #646
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I'm sure this is covered in this thread, but it's 22 pages long and a bit confusing. I'm in New Jersey and subscribe to Cablevision. I'm considering a Roamio but am not clear as to whether or not all 6 tuners are supported by Cablevision supplied cards at this time. Would someone please be kind enough to clear this up? Thanks much.
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Old 11-12-2013, 10:46 AM   #647
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Cable Labs doesn't care if your equipment works. All they care about is protection of their precious content. In fact Cable Labs is probably happier if nothing works since if it is totally broken you can't pirate anything off it.
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Old 11-12-2013, 12:43 PM   #648
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I'm sure this is covered in this thread, but it's 22 pages long and a bit confusing. I'm in New Jersey and subscribe to Cablevision. I'm considering a Roamio but am not clear as to whether or not all 6 tuners are supported by Cablevision supplied cards at this time. Would someone please be kind enough to clear this up? Thanks much.
It all depends on what system your Cablevision is using.. I'm on the Ramapo/Oakland network which uses SA/Cisco cable cards. I had them update the firmware to 1.5.3 and all 6 tuners work.

Some other areas of Cablevision use NDS cablecards, and I don't think they are so lucky.

What network are you on? and what cable cards do they use?
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Old 11-12-2013, 01:56 PM   #649
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I'm on the Raritan network and not able to check the card at this time, but now I know what to look for.. Thanks for your response.
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Old 11-12-2013, 07:19 PM   #650
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I'm sure this is covered in this thread, but it's 22 pages long and a bit confusing. I'm in New Jersey and subscribe to Cablevision. I'm considering a Roamio but am not clear as to whether or not all 6 tuners are supported by Cablevision supplied cards at this time. Would someone please be kind enough to clear this up? Thanks much.
Quote:
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I'm on the Raritan network and not able to check the card at this time, but now I know what to look for.. Thanks for your response.
Raritan Valley system uses SA/Cisco, so yes you will be able to use 6 tuners without issue.

I believe that the firmware level you need (1.5.3.1101) has been rolled out to everyone, so you should have it already. If you don't, I know who the guy is to contact to get them to push it. Go ahead and buy the Roamio Plus/Pro.
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Old 11-12-2013, 09:34 PM   #651
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Cablevision upgraded my NDS cablecard with the firmware ending in 0601. All six tuners on my Roamio are working since the update without any V58 not authorized errors.

Ed from Cablevision sent me an email stating that the firmware update was pushed to all customers. Hopefully this fixes the not authorized problem with NDS cablecards on Cablevision.
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Old 11-12-2013, 11:43 PM   #652
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Originally Posted by cc0n01 View Post
Cablevision upgraded my NDS cablecard with the firmware ending in 0601. All six tuners on my Roamio are working since the update without any V58 not authorized errors.

Ed from Cablevision sent me an email stating that the firmware update was pushed to all customers. Hopefully this fixes the not authorized problem with NDS cablecards on Cablevision.
I'm not using Cablevision, but that is awesome news for everyone who is
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Old 11-13-2013, 06:53 AM   #653
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Raritan Valley system uses SA/Cisco, so yes you will be able to use 6 tuners without issue.

I believe that the firmware level you need (1.5.3.1101) has been rolled out to everyone, so you should have it already. If you don't, I know who the guy is to contact to get them to push it. Go ahead and buy the Roamio Plus/Pro.
Thanks again
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Old 11-13-2013, 01:56 PM   #654
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Thanks everyone. I'm going to come back to TiVo finally.

Since my area of optimum (cable vision) uses SA cards. I stopped at my local store and that's what they showed me anyways.

Just wasn't sure if I should go with the 4 or 6 tuner. Now that I know I can use 6, that's the choice.


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Old 11-13-2013, 07:42 PM   #655
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Originally Posted by BobCamp1 View Post
<snip>
QUALIFIED M-CARD PRODUCT LIST Date: Feb 2012
COMPANY SOFTWARE_REVISION
CCAD 6.25
Cisco OS 1.5.2.3001
Conax/Corecross 3.0.26L-3.2S-5.8M
Evolution Digital/Conax 1.55R
Nagravision 22.00.01.01.00.00
NDS/Corecross 1
<snip>
Odd that Motorola (now owned by Arris) isn't in the list... Also Cisco now owns NDS. I think this data may be out-of-date.

Also interesting... I keep seeing posts about people waiting for the "xxxx" software, without putting in the complete revision number, and I keep seeing references that sometimes have a "2" or "3" in the PKEY1.5.x (in place of the x). But, the last four digits are the same as other posts that have a different number in that spot (like 0601 or 3001, and others).

I have "OS Ver: PKEY1.5.3_F.p.0601, Build Time: Jun 19, 2012, 13:34.00"

I have "Last CVT Time: Thu Feb 28 2013, 11:13:49AM GMT" means that is the date, and time I received it.

Thanks for doing the research, and taking the time to share it. I typed my data in from my cablecard diags screen, and triple-checked, before I now hit Submit Reply.
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Last edited by nooneuknow : 11-13-2013 at 08:05 PM.
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Old 11-13-2013, 08:21 PM   #656
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I keep seeing posts about people waiting for the "xxxx" software, without putting in the complete revision number, and I keep seeing references that sometimes have a "2" or "3" in the PKEY1.5.x (in place of the x). But, the last four digits are the same as other posts that have a different number in that spot (like 0601 or 3001, and others).
To requote my earlier post a page page, here are the newest available SA/Cisco and NDS firmware levels:

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamNJ View Post
We are talking about two different brand cards which use a different firmware base.

SA/Cisco = 1.5.3.1101 (most current, and confirmed good for 6 tuners)
NDS = what is being tested now 3.0.7_F.p.0601 (as per user profet)

Cablevision uses both, it depends on your area.


Regarding NDS, I've seen one post saying that NDS firmware is confirmed good and now rolled out generally. It would be great if we can get some other confirmations on this though as I thought I had seen someone say there were still getting the occasional v58.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cc0n01 View Post
Cablevision upgraded my NDS cablecard with the firmware ending in 0601. All six tuners on my Roamio are working since the update without any V58 not authorized errors.

Ed from Cablevision sent me an email stating that the firmware update was pushed to all customers. Hopefully this fixes the not authorized problem with NDS cablecards on Cablevision.

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Last edited by AdamNJ : 11-14-2013 at 05:26 PM.
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Old 11-14-2013, 12:20 PM   #657
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Originally Posted by AdamNJ View Post
We are talking about two different brand cards which use a different firmware base.

SA/Cisco = 1.5.3.1011 (most current, and confirmed good for 6 tuners)
NDS = what is being tested now 3.0.7_F.p.0601 (as per user profet)

Cablevision uses both, it depends on your area.
I believe you mean "1.5.3.1101" for the Cisco, correct?
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Old 11-14-2013, 01:25 PM   #658
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Thanks again
v 58 errors back again for me last night during channel surfing even with the new NDS firmware. All non Broadcast Basic channels were impacted. Had to reboot TiVo to fix. Ed asked me to note and send him what channels all six tuners were tuned to if it happens again so that Cablevision can try to replicate the issue.
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Old 11-14-2013, 05:26 PM   #659
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I believe you mean "1.5.3.1101" for the Cisco, correct?
damnit, yes I had already corrected my original post and still made a mistake. I will correct.
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Old 11-14-2013, 08:29 PM   #660
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Regarding NDS, I've seen one post saying that NDS firmware is confirmed good and now rolled out generally. It would be great if we can get some other confirmations on this though as I thought I had seen someone say there were still getting the occasional v58.
I was not on any special list and I have received the newest version of the NDS firmware. I'm on Cablevision in the Morris County system. I haven't yet reactivated my tuners so I can't verify that it's working yet. I will soon.
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