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Old 11-07-2013, 04:18 PM   #1
mykee50
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S3 keeps dying...

Hello, I have a 5 year old S3 HD. In the last few weeks it has started to go dormant, just a black screen no matter what button you push. You can see the clock and that's it. No season passes recorded, just nothing. It will stay that way (for days) until rebooted. I reboot it by unplugging/replugging and it works fine.

I've been reading through the posts but I don't see anything quite the same.

Power supply? Hard Drive?

Thanks, Mike


OK, so I'm watching World News Tonight and it just locked up. Frozen picture. All of the lights on the front work when I press the remote buttons. I rebooted and it's working again.

Last edited by mykee50 : 11-07-2013 at 07:51 PM. Reason: added something
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Old 11-07-2013, 04:30 PM   #2
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Their original power supply capacitors fail so reliably that any odd behavior is first addressed by replacing the capacitors.
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Old 11-07-2013, 06:36 PM   #3
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Their original power supply capacitors fail so reliably that any odd behavior is first addressed by replacing the capacitors.
Or at least being strongly suspicious of them and checking the power supply for proper output before doing anything else.
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Old 11-07-2013, 07:56 PM   #4
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Or at least being strongly suspicious of them and checking the power supply for proper output before doing anything else.
OK Unitron thanks, I was reading some of your responses on other threads. You seem to know what you are talking about with these units. I read how to check the voltages (I can do that). If the capacitors ARE going, do I replace the whole power board like they sell on Weaknees?

Thanks again, Mike
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Old 11-08-2013, 01:40 PM   #5
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OK Unitron thanks, I was reading some of your responses on other threads. You seem to know what you are talking about with these units. (up to a point--unitron) I read how to check the voltages (I can do that). If the capacitors ARE going, do I replace the whole power board like they sell on Weaknees?

Thanks again, Mike
Sometimes you troubleshoot by replacing parts and sometimes you do a lot of testing before you go spending time and lots of money buying and installing replacement parts.

If you've still got the original hard drive in there (Do you have a TCD648250 or a TCD652160?--TiVo managed to create a situation where S3 HD might refer to either one), then I wouldn't be a bit surprised if you weren't experiencing both impending hard drive failure and power supply problems.

Have you ever soldered anything before?

You can spend about $10 and get replacement capacitors for the ones that might be going bad on the power supply circuit board--and if they haven't yet, it's probably just a matter of time--and it's not terribly difficult to replace them.

Or you can spend around 10 times that or more, but that won't necessarily get you a brand new power supply straight from the factory of TiVo's original sub-contracting manufacturer, only this time with capacitors from companies good enough at making them that they don't need to steal some other company's secret formula.

The best you can hope for is new old stock, that is, made the same time as the rest of them but never installed in a TiVo before.

And the sooner that hard drive gets copied off to another one, the better the chances of saving what's on it.

You don't have an external drive attached to the TiVo, do you?
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Old 11-08-2013, 02:24 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by unitron View Post
Sometimes you troubleshoot by replacing parts and sometimes you do a lot of testing before you go spending time and lots of money buying and installing replacement parts.

If you've still got the original hard drive in there (Do you have a TCD648250 or a TCD652160?--TiVo managed to create a situation where S3 HD might refer to either one), then I wouldn't be a bit surprised if you weren't experiencing both impending hard drive failure and power supply problems.

Have you ever soldered anything before?

You can spend about $10 and get replacement capacitors for the ones that might be going bad on the power supply circuit board--and if they haven't yet, it's probably just a matter of time--and it's not terribly difficult to replace them.

Or you can spend around 10 times that or more, but that won't necessarily get you a brand new power supply straight from the factory of TiVo's original sub-contracting manufacturer, only this time with capacitors from companies good enough at making them that they don't need to steal some other company's secret formula.

The best you can hope for is new old stock, that is, made the same time as the rest of them but never installed in a TiVo before.

And the sooner that hard drive gets copied off to another one, the better the chances of saving what's on it.

You don't have an external drive attached to the TiVo, do you?
Thanks Unitron,

It's a 648250B/Lifetime. I just ordered the capacitor list for the 648 from Mouser. I can solder. Never done a circuit board though. I have multiple irons and solder so I should be OK. I plumbed my house, cu tube and torch, lol.

Where do I order a new hard drive?

Just FYI, I just ordered a Roamio Pro and 4 Mini's from Abt for $827. I'm fixing this one to sell or give to one of my kid's.

Thanks for the help. It's good that there are guy's on here willing to give help.

Thaks again, Mike
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Old 11-08-2013, 10:36 PM   #7
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Thanks Unitron,

It's a 648250B/Lifetime. I just ordered the capacitor list for the 648 from Mouser. I can solder. Never done a circuit board though. I have multiple irons and solder so I should be OK. I plumbed my house, cu tube and torch, lol.

Where do I order a new hard drive?

Just FYI, I just ordered a Roamio Pro and 4 Mini's from Abt for $827. I'm fixing this one to sell or give to one of my kid's.

Thanks for the help. It's good that there are guy's on here willing to give help.

Thaks again, Mike

Just remember, rosin core solder, not the acid core stuff you use sweating copper pipes together.

Preferably just lead and tin, 60/40 or 63/37, and not the lead-free stuff that's impossible to melt without getting up into "surface of the sun" level temperatures.

Don't use anything with any more horsepower than a Weller 100/140 Watt gun.

And don't forget to clip the leads with some diagonal pliers after you solder in the new caps.

And be sure to observe polarity.

Check Amazon and newegg for a WD20EURS under $100, only make sure it's being sold directly by them and not some third party.

Burn yourself a bootable copy of the Ultimate Boot cd

http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/download.html

Go down to the bottom of the page where it says "Mirror Sites" and click on one of the icons next to the word ISO

Be sure to burn it "as an image".

Then you boot with that with the old drive hooked to the PC and find the WD diagnostic software and run the long test on the drive (I'm assuming it's the original 250GB WD drive) to see if it's any good or not.

And you run the manufacturer's long test on the new drive before you put it into service, and if it's a "green" WD, you find

wdidle3.exe

on the UBCD and run it (with no other WD drives connected to the PC) just to make sure that Intellipark is not enabled on that new drive if it's a WD "green".

If the original drive is in okay shape, you can boot into Windows XP Service Pack 3 or later and run WinMFS to copy it to the new drive.

When you do, it'll say you have extra space on the new drive and offer to expand. Tell it no.

Then select the new drive, click on mfsinfo to make sure everything looks okay--the third tab should show the partition map with a large Apple Free partition at the end.

Then you close that and click on mfsadd to do the expanding.
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Old 11-09-2013, 01:10 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by unitron View Post
Just remember, rosin core solder, not the acid core stuff you use sweating copper pipes together.

Preferably just lead and tin, 60/40 or 63/37, and not the lead-free stuff that's impossible to melt without getting up into "surface of the sun" level temperatures.

Don't use anything with any more horsepower than a Weller 100/140 Watt gun.

And don't forget to clip the leads with some diagonal pliers after you solder in the new caps.

And be sure to observe polarity.

Check Amazon and newegg for a WD20EURS under $100, only make sure it's being sold directly by them and not some third party.

Burn yourself a bootable copy of the Ultimate Boot cd

http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/download.html

Go down to the bottom of the page where it says "Mirror Sites" and click on one of the icons next to the word ISO

Be sure to burn it "as an image".

Then you boot with that with the old drive hooked to the PC and find the WD diagnostic software and run the long test on the drive (I'm assuming it's the original 250GB WD drive) to see if it's any good or not.

And you run the manufacturer's long test on the new drive before you put it into service, and if it's a "green" WD, you find

wdidle3.exe

on the UBCD and run it (with no other WD drives connected to the PC) just to make sure that Intellipark is not enabled on that new drive if it's a WD "green".

If the original drive is in okay shape, you can boot into Windows XP Service Pack 3 or later and run WinMFS to copy it to the new drive.

When you do, it'll say you have extra space on the new drive and offer to expand. Tell it no.

Then select the new drive, click on mfsinfo to make sure everything looks okay--the third tab should show the partition map with a large Apple Free partition at the end.

Then you close that and click on mfsadd to do the expanding.
What, your sayin' I can't use my torch, ?? Seriously, I'm very familiar with solder. I spent 30 years as a plumbing buyer for a hardware chain. One of my duties was buying solder from the mfg's.

That's a lot of stuff to go through for the drive though. Probably just sounds harder than it is. I'll just get the power upgraded and sell it. OR sell it as is with the parts I just ordered (any takers?) (I'm 62 and computer literate, but not so much on the programming side)

Thanks again unitron, Mike
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Old 11-09-2013, 05:11 PM   #9
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What, your sayin' I can't use my torch, ?? Seriously, I'm very familiar with solder. I spent 30 years as a plumbing buyer for a hardware chain. One of my duties was buying solder from the mfg's.

That's a lot of stuff to go through for the drive though. Probably just sounds harder than it is. I'll just get the power upgraded and sell it. OR sell it as is with the parts I just ordered (any takers?) (I'm 62 and computer literate, but not so much on the programming side)

Thanks again unitron, Mike
Do you have any spare hard drives lying around that are at least 250GB that you could use temporarily?
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Old 11-09-2013, 05:39 PM   #10
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And don't forget to clip the leads with some diagonal pliers after you solder in the new caps.
No one could be so idiotic as to forget to do that. I mean, can you imagine; those honking big leads sticking out of the bottom that you'd have to be blind not to see? Put the board back into the machine and short those leads out? What kind of careless moron could so something like that?

Certainly no one could ever claim _I_ did anything that stupid.

Because nobody else was in the house at the time.
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Old 11-09-2013, 05:56 PM   #11
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No one could be so idiotic as to forget to do that. I mean, can you imagine; those honking big leads sticking out of the bottom that you'd have to be blind not to see? Put the board back into the machine and short those leads out? What kind of careless moron could so something like that?

Certainly no one could ever claim _I_ did anything that stupid.

Because nobody else was in the house at the time.
So it's entirely co-incidental that your nickname is "spotwelder"?


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Old 11-09-2013, 06:10 PM   #12
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I thought I read that someone here left the legs on because they thought they needed to contact the chassis.
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Old 11-09-2013, 06:51 PM   #13
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I thought I read that someone here left the legs on because they thought they needed to contact the chassis.
I read that too. I think they were just being facetious.
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Old 11-11-2013, 03:49 PM   #14
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Do you have any spare hard drives lying around that are at least 250GB that you could use temporarily?
TDC648250B

No hard drives to try. I'm down to the "Almost There" screen only. I opened it up this morning. What were the required voltages to check? And on what setting? The C701 and C601 seem to be slightly domed. This is a 3Y Power Tech. board if that matters. Are the 2 Mfg's of these power boards interchangeable if I buy a parts box off of CL?

Thanks, Mike

I just checked some voltages at the motherboard connection...
Orange; 2.4v
Gray; 6.7v
Red; 4.3v
Yellow; 9.9v


Last edited by mykee50 : 11-11-2013 at 04:00 PM. Reason: addition
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Old 11-11-2013, 06:15 PM   #15
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TDC648250B

No hard drives to try. I'm down to the "Almost There" screen only. I opened it up this morning. What were the required voltages to check? And on what setting? The C701 and C601 seem to be slightly domed. This is a 3Y Power Tech. board if that matters. Are the 2 Mfg's of these power boards interchangeable if I buy a parts box off of CL?

Thanks, Mike

I just checked some voltages at the motherboard connection...
Orange; 2.4v
Gray; 6.7v
Red; 4.3v
Yellow; 9.9v

The 648 uses a slightly different design supply from either of the designs used in the 652 and 658, and as far as I know, 3Y was the sole supplier for the 648. The 562/658 supplies from either 3Y or AcBel don't have the gray wire, which is apparently intended to power the OLED display.

You could use a power supply from a 652 or 658 for test purposes, as everything else about the plug that goes to the motherboard is the same, but never use a 648 supply in a 652 or 658 because we don't know with what the gray wire would come into contact on the motherboard.


Are those voltage readings before or after putting in the replacement caps, and were those readings taken with the power supply plug plugged into the motherboard? Was the hard drive connected to the power supply at the time?
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Old 11-12-2013, 10:21 AM   #16
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The 648 uses a slightly different design supply from either of the designs used in the 652 and 658, and as far as I know, 3Y was the sole supplier for the 648. The 562/658 supplies from either 3Y or AcBel don't have the gray wire, which is apparently intended to power the OLED display.

You could use a power supply from a 652 or 658 for test purposes, as everything else about the plug that goes to the motherboard is the same, but never use a 648 supply in a 652 or 658 because we don't know with what the gray wire would come into contact on the motherboard.


Are those voltage readings before or after putting in the replacement caps, and were those readings taken with the power supply plug plugged into the motherboard? Was the hard drive connected to the power supply at the time?
These readings are with OEM parts, everything intact ,and on and the "Almost There" screen on.

I should have the new caps this week.

Thanks, Mike
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Old 11-13-2013, 01:22 AM   #17
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These readings are with OEM parts, everything intact ,and on and the "Almost There" screen on.

I should have the new caps this week.

Thanks, Mike
Those readings are way lower than the acceptable minimum, so I suspect that the power supply is in desparate need of those replacement caps.

Once you get a properly working power supply in there, you may discover that you have other problems as well, but at least you'll know that the power supply has been ruled out as a possible cause.

And you may discover that the power supply was the only problem.
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Old 11-15-2013, 12:27 PM   #18
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TDC648250B

No hard drives to try. I'm down to the "Almost There" screen only. I opened it up this morning. What were the required voltages to check? And on what setting? The C701 and C601 seem to be slightly domed. This is a 3Y Power Tech. board if that matters. Are the 2 Mfg's of these power boards interchangeable if I buy a parts box off of CL?

Thanks, Mike

I just checked some voltages at the motherboard connection...
Orange; 2.4v Now 3.25v
Gray; 6.7v Now 7.6v
Red; 4.3v Now 5.05v
Yellow; 9.9v
Now 12.9v


OK, got the cap order. Replaced the 3 bulging ones, C503, C601, C701. Checked power and got... (see quote above).

I ran it for an hour last night and it was fine until the picture froze. I tried rebooting and it locked on the start-up page again. I unplugged it and put it back on the work station again. This morning I restarted it and it's been working fine again (about an hour) Same voltages as last night.

Could I still have a HD problem? Is there a way to check the drive while it's in the tivo?

My Roamio Pro is due today. Hopefully this baby will stay alive long enough to transfer everything to the new box.

Thanks for the help, Mike

It just froze and rebooted itself as I was posting this. It's on the second screen "Almost There". I have been trying to kickstart it by holding down the pause but nothing is happening. Oops, back to screen one... now screen 2...

Last edited by mykee50 : 11-15-2013 at 12:42 PM.
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Old 11-15-2013, 02:57 PM   #19
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Now 12.9v


OK, got the cap order. Replaced the 3 bulging ones, C503, C601, C701. Checked power and got... (see quote above).

I ran it for an hour last night and it was fine until the picture froze. I tried rebooting and it locked on the start-up page again. I unplugged it and put it back on the work station again. This morning I restarted it and it's been working fine again (about an hour) Same voltages as last night.

Could I still have a HD problem? Is there a way to check the drive while it's in the tivo?

My Roamio Pro is due today. Hopefully this baby will stay alive long enough to transfer everything to the new box.

Thanks for the help, Mike

It just froze and rebooted itself as I was posting this. It's on the second screen "Almost There". I have been trying to kickstart it by holding down the pause but nothing is happening. Oops, back to screen one... now screen 2...
You obviously had a power supply problem, but I fear the hard drive is also going bye-bye, and it and the shows on it should be copied to another drive while that's still possible instead of trying to operate the TiVo anymore.

I'm assuming it's the original 250GB drive.

You can "Xerox" it to another drive at least as big, and if you don't want to use that drive in the TiVo, wait until you have on hand the one you do want to use and "Xerox" the backup to it.

Do you know how to burn an .iso file to a cd "as an image"?
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Old 11-16-2013, 11:49 AM   #20
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You obviously had a power supply problem, but I fear the hard drive is also going bye-bye, and it and the shows on it should be copied to another drive while that's still possible instead of trying to operate the TiVo anymore.

I'm assuming it's the original 250GB drive.

You can "Xerox" it to another drive at least as big, and if you don't want to use that drive in the TiVo, wait until you have on hand the one you do want to use and "Xerox" the backup to it.

Do you know how to burn an .iso file to a cd "as an image"?
Ya, that's what I was figuring. The drive (WD2500BS) gets pretty hot then goes sideways after about an hour.

I do not know how to clone it though. Any link would be appreciated. I can follow directions pretty good but I'm no computer geek. No offense meant, lol. I DID order this kit in hopes of checking the drive,

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000J01I1G/..._M3T1_ST1_dp_1

Thanks for the help, Mike
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Old 11-16-2013, 08:57 PM   #21
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Ya, that's what I was figuring. The drive (WD2500BS) gets pretty hot then goes sideways after about an hour.

I do not know how to clone it though. Any link would be appreciated. I can follow directions pretty good but I'm no computer geek. No offense meant, lol. I DID order this kit in hopes of checking the drive,

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000J01I1G/..._M3T1_ST1_dp_1

Thanks for the help, Mike
That will let you connect either the current drive to the PC or the one to which you'll copy the current drive, although going through the USB interface instead of connecting directly to a SATA port on the PC's motherboard will slow things down.

So you'll need to have two of those gizmos, or take the cover off the PC case to get to the insides, or you'll need a huge amount of room on the PC's own hard drive to copy the TiVo drive to and then copy from there to a new drive.

I wish you had a spare (even temporarily) hard drive at least as big as the TiVo drive to use, and then we could put a 648 image on it and test that in the TiVo and make sure your only surviving problem is the TiVo's hard drive before spending any more money.

Once we get it worked out how we're going to hook what up which way to the PC I can tell you which bootable cd to make and how to run the "Xerox'ing" program, and a couple of other tricks.

You don't have more than one PC by any chance?

And tell me about the one you have--what brand and model motherboard and how big the hard drive is.
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