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Old 11-06-2013, 03:25 PM   #1
marklyn
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Romio plus and 4 mini's - wiring suggestions please!

My head is spinning and I could really use some help.
I currently have 4 DVR satellite receivers, each with dual coax back to the dish and each with an ethernet connection back to my router. I plan on switching to Romio, 4 minis and cable TV very soon but I have a dilemma.

I want to set up a Romio plus and 4 mini's but I'm concerned that connecting all of the mini's to the Romio and streaming to 2-3 of them might cause internet bandwidth issues for my network. I'm looking for a way to isolate the traffic between the mini's and the Romio so my LAN is minimally affected when streaming from Romio to one (or more) minis.

With all of the excess coax I'll have left over and an ethernet drop at each mini location, can I create a configuration where an ethernet hub is servicing all of the mini's and keeping the streaming traffic off the LAN?
Or, could I use coax to go to each mini, thus avoiding the LAN altogether?

If someone can find a diagram of what I'm trying to do, I'm very visual and that would help a lot.

I've searched for wiring diagrams but haven't found anything yet specific to what I'm wanting so I'm turning to experienced users to help me figure this out.
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Old 11-06-2013, 03:33 PM   #2
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It should not matter. Many folks here are using many minis all at the same time. I would suggest not solving a problem unless it becomes one!
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Old 11-06-2013, 03:46 PM   #3
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It should not matter. Many folks here are using many minis all at the same time. I would suggest not solving a problem unless it becomes one!
With all due respect, I'd really like a response to the question. My home network setup is likely above average for a typical home user. I have 4 desktop computers, two running 24/7 due to weather related updates one one being a file server. I also have 10 video cameras tied into my network, 5 of which record motion on the file server. This doesn't account for normal internet activity that family members use. Needless to say there is a very decent amount of network traffic on my LAN and there have already been peak times when it's noticed.

Now that I have the opportunity to set up a new configuration, I'd like to do so in a way that minimizes (contains) any influence on my regular network.
I believe this to be a reasonable and prudent way to plan, but maybe that's just me.
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Old 11-06-2013, 04:06 PM   #4
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Or, could I use coax to go to each mini, thus avoiding the LAN altogether?
Yes, it sounds like the built in MoCa would meet your requirements just fine.

https://www.tivo.com/my-account/how-to/what-moca
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Old 11-06-2013, 04:32 PM   #5
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Yes, it sounds like the built in MoCa would meet your requirements just fine.

https://www.tivo.com/my-account/how-to/what-moca
Jeremy, I've seen that link before but I'm still not understanding the wiring path of the coax. For example, the coax coming into my house goes to my cable modem, would I split it there and connect it to the Romio as well? If I do that how will I connect coax from the Romio to the mini's. I cannot find that level of detail on the website you sent nor the links, but I'll look again.
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Old 11-06-2013, 05:13 PM   #6
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Jeremy, I've seen that link before but I'm still not understanding the wiring path of the coax. For example, the coax coming into my house goes to my cable modem, would I split it there and connect it to the Romio as well? If I do that how will I connect coax from the Romio to the mini's. I cannot find that level of detail on the website you sent nor the links, but I'll look again.
If you use Moca, streaming shows to your minis will have no traffic flowing over ethernet.

Ok, so all you need, wiring-wise is:

One coax wire, run just like you were going to set up cable boxes at each tv...
-on the coax coming from the cable co. First you use a two way splitter. On one branch of that split, connect it to your cable modem. On the other side of the split, put another (in your case a 5-way) splitter that connects to the coax running to all of the tivos.

-Connect the Roameo to ethernet and coax. After its configured, settled in, with a few calls home, updates, reboots, cablecard setup, etc... go into settings and turn on Moca.

-connect the coax only to each mini. During setup of each they should see the Moca network and just work, pulling everything over the coax.


Couple of pointers:
-Is the coax is ancient, you might have problems.
-If the 5 way splitter is rated for too low a frequency, your signal might be too attenuated and Moca might be problematic.
-its suggested to use a poe filter to prevent the moca networking signal from going out of your house. Just install it between the splitters in my confg, or if not accessable, right where the cable comes in from the cable co. Theoretically allows faster, cleaner Moca signalling... But mine runs around 235mbps and no errors without one installed.... Which is close to the max throughput <shrug>
-you can get a Poe filter for <$10 delivered from ebay. Gotta install mine one of these days!
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Old 11-06-2013, 05:45 PM   #7
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If you use Moca, streaming shows to your minis will have no traffic flowing over ethernet.

Ok, so all you need, wiring-wise is:

One coax wire, run just like you were going to set up cable boxes at each tv...
-on the coax coming from the cable co. First you use a two way splitter. On one branch of that split, connect it to your cable modem. On the other side of the split, put another (in your case a 5-way) splitter that connects to the coax running to all of the tivos.

-Connect the Roameo to ethernet and coax. After its configured, settled in, with a few calls home, updates, reboots, cablecard setup, etc... go into settings and turn on Moca.

-connect the coax only to each mini. During setup of each they should see the Moca network and just work, pulling everything over the coax.


Couple of pointers:
-Is the coax is ancient, you might have problems.
-If the 5 way splitter is rated for too low a frequency, your signal might be too attenuated and Moca might be problematic.
-its suggested to use a poe filter to prevent the moca networking signal from going out of your house. Just install it between the splitters in my confg, or if not accessable, right where the cable comes in from the cable co. Theoretically allows faster, cleaner Moca signalling... But mine runs around 235mbps and no errors without one installed.... Which is close to the max throughput <shrug>
-you can get a Poe filter for <$10 delivered from ebay. Gotta install mine one of these days!
Ignad, you are the man! You explained it perfectly to me and I now realize I was over complicating it in my mind. Thank you very much!
All of the coax in my house is about 2 years old and the heavy/thick kind. I forget the rating but I know it's more than the average cable.

Follow up questions if I may:
POE filter, are they all the same? Can you point me out to 1-2 different ones so I can check on ebay?
Regarding splitter, I want to get the right ones, can you also recommend those as well? I'm not understanding frequency requirements so spoon feeding me this info would be appreciated.
Again, Thanks!
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Old 11-06-2013, 05:58 PM   #8
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This is one on amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/Filter-MoCA-Ca...rds=poe+filter
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Old 11-06-2013, 07:20 PM   #9
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If you are running a gigabit network you shouldn't have any issues over ethernet. I'm running ten cameras here plus dozens of other network devices without issue.

Although I do have things physically segmented on my network since I run unmanaged gigabit switches. So the TiVos and TiVo Desktop PC are on a segment and the cameras are also on another. My media players, PCs and other devices are on a third, while my APs are on a fourth segment.

So the devices only communicate outside their network segment if they send/receive data over the internet, or communicate with a device on another segment.
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Old 11-06-2013, 08:27 PM   #10
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If you are running a gigabit network you shouldn't have any issues over ethernet. I'm running ten cameras here plus dozens of other network devices without issue.

Although I do have things physically segmented on my network since I run unmanaged gigabit switches. So the TiVos and TiVo Desktop PC are on a segment and the cameras are also on another. My media players, PCs and other devices are on a third, while my APs are on a fourth segment.

So the devices only communicate outside their network segment if they send/receive data over the internet, or communicate with a device on another segment.
All good stuff, thanks for the input, keep it coming.
I'm going to go with the moca setup since I've already got good dual coax in all the rooms.
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Old 11-06-2013, 10:02 PM   #11
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Coax is the way to go since you've already got all that wire run. MoCA POE filters are pretty much all the same. A cheap one on ebay is fine.

Splitters should be rated for at least 1000 MHz (1 GHz) but ideally higher.

This thread may be useful too:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=501722
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Old 11-07-2013, 09:21 AM   #12
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I have a Plus and 2 minis with 6 computers and Optimum Ultra 101 (the fastest you can get). I will tell you that a couple of times I have lost connection to mini a couple of times. Generally going to the TiVo menu and then back to live tv fixes it but I'm thinking for you going MoCa would be best option. I think I'm going to go to MoCa and see what happens.
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Old 11-07-2013, 09:34 AM   #13
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I have a Plus and 2 minis with 6 computers and Optimum Ultra 101 (the fastest you can get). I will tell you that a couple of times I have lost connection to mini a couple of times. Generally going to the TiVo menu and then back to live tv fixes it but I'm thinking for you going MoCa would be best option. I think I'm going to go to MoCa and see what happens.
That was a concern I had NJGuy. I have a satellite DVR setup now where I've got a lot of stuff on my LAN (streaming vid cams, satellite DVR's, etc.) and occasionally my whole home satellite DVR setup has to be restarted for what I'm thinking has been more bandwidth being sucked up. At any rate, going the moca route will totally eliminate any potential streaming from tivo to tivo boxes anyway.
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Old 11-07-2013, 09:46 AM   #14
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cabling plan

OK, now that I think I understand this I've drawn up a cabling plan. Please let me know if this looks correct. Appreciate any additional input or suggestions as well.
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File Type: jpg RomioWiringPlan.jpg (27.0 KB, 38 views)
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Old 11-07-2013, 10:03 AM   #15
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POE Filters less expensive directly from TiVo.

https://www.tivo.com/shop/detail/moca-poe
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Old 11-07-2013, 10:16 AM   #16
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POE Filters less expensive directly from TiVo.

https://www.tivo.com/shop/detail/moca-poe
Considering what TiVo charges for shipping it's close to being a wash.
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Old 11-07-2013, 10:18 AM   #17
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OK, now that I think I understand this I've drawn up a cabling plan. Please let me know if this looks correct. Appreciate any additional input or suggestions as well.
Your diagram looks fine but technically you want the poe filter to actually be on the main leg into the network, the one you have marked "time warner". That will prevent the MoCA network from back feeding under any circumstances out to the other side of your home.
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Old 11-07-2013, 11:03 AM   #18
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Your diagram looks fine but technically you want the poe filter to actually be on the main leg into the network, the one you have marked "time warner". That will prevent the MoCA network from back feeding under any circumstances out to the other side of your home.
I'm not sure I understand. I thought placing the POE filter in the location it's at would also prevent back feeding into my network and contain all traffic within the Roamio and mini's segment. If I put it where you're suggesting, wouldn't there then be the possibility of this happening?
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Old 11-07-2013, 11:04 AM   #19
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POE Filters less expensive directly from TiVo.

https://www.tivo.com/shop/detail/moca-poe

Last night I did a quick search.... $7.50 delivered from eBay.

Tivo charges more than that in shipping!
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Old 11-07-2013, 11:05 AM   #20
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I'd agree about moving the POE back to the main drop.

Then, you could have a 6-way splitter at the point of entry to give yourself a better signal to all the tivo boxes, rather than the redundancy of an extra splitter that would reduce signal strength... if physically possible.

Also, Time Warner may require the use of a tuning adapter at the DVR. This is the recommended setup for the Tuning Adapter. (Basically, don't use the RF out on the tuning adapter. This will allow moca to bypass the tuning adapter).


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Old 11-07-2013, 11:08 AM   #21
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I'd agree about moving the POE back to the main drop.

Then, you could have a 6-way splitter at the point of entry to give yourself a better signal to all the tivo boxes, rather than the redundancy of an extra splitter that would reduce signal strength.
Hmmm. Ok, I'll move it but I did hear/read recently that it was supposed to be better to split the coax coming in, 1 going to your cable modem and the other going to another splitter for your network. I can't find the info I found on this but I understood it to be better for your LAN network. Course, splitters are cheap enough that I could try out both ways.
Anyone have any experience for this question?
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Old 11-07-2013, 11:11 AM   #22
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Also, Time Warner may require the use of a tuning adapter at the DVR. This is the recommended setup for the Tuning Adapter. (Basically, don't use the RF out on the tuning adapter. This will allow moca to bypass the tuning adapter).
Ohhh, I missed that part. How would I know ahead of time that my Time Warner in Austin would require me to have a tuning adapter. Is this likely something I can call their drones and ask (I'd rather take a beating though)?
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Old 11-07-2013, 11:31 AM   #23
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Ohhh, I missed that part. How would I know ahead of time that my Time Warner in Austin would require me to have a tuning adapter. Is this likely something I can call their drones and ask (I'd rather take a beating though)?
I'm almost positive you'll need a TA. I believe they're free. I guess you would request it when you order the cablecard/service. Not sure if they give them automatically with cablecards or not.

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Hmmm. Ok, I'll move it but I did hear/read recently that it was supposed to be better to split the coax coming in, 1 going to your cable modem and the other going to another splitter for your network. I can't find the info I found on this but I understood it to be better for your LAN network. Course, splitters are cheap enough that I could try out both ways.
Anyone have any experience for this question?
Ah, good point. But yeah, you can try it both ways. If a 6-way splitter would weaken the internet signal too much, you can go your way.

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Old 11-07-2013, 11:33 AM   #24
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I'd agree about moving the POE back to the main drop.

Then, you could have a 6-way splitter at the point of entry to give yourself a better signal to all the tivo boxes, rather than the redundancy of an extra splitter that would reduce signal strength... if physically possible.

Also, Time Warner may require the use of a tuning adapter at the DVR. This is the recommended setup for the Tuning Adapter. (Basically, don't use the RF out on the tuning adapter. This will allow moca to bypass the tuning adapter).
Well, We don't care about the cable tv signal strength at the minis. They are pulling from/through the ROAMio via the Moca network.

Cable companies usually do the layout I suggested, so that the cable modem gets plenty of signal strength. Putting it on a six way sounds like a recipe for disaster.

If the signal strength to the ROAMio is a concern, I'd consider:
Feed from cable - POE filter - three way splitter, with the modem on one leg, the ROAMio on the 2nd, and a four way splitter going to the minis on the 3rd.

(Very very) Occasionally the Moca signal back-feeding into cable modems messes up the networking speeds, if so a 2nd filter on its leg might be needed.

Actually, since I can't find a five-way splitter after a quick search, I guess that's the way to go. Lol Suprised no one pointed out that error on my part!
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Old 11-07-2013, 11:47 AM   #25
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If the signal strength to the ROAMio is a concern, I'd consider:
Feed from cable - POE filter - three way splitter, with the modem on one leg, the ROAMio on the 2nd, and a four way splitter going to the minis on the 3rd.
You're right, this would be better since the Minis are only getting moca. Better still since the Roamio leg would be split again because of the TA.

marklyn, forget what I said earlier. This is a way better plan. Go with this. Lol.
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Old 11-07-2013, 11:52 AM   #26
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I'm not sure I understand. I thought placing the POE filter in the location it's at would also prevent back feeding into my network and contain all traffic within the Roamio and mini's segment. If I put it where you're suggesting, wouldn't there then be the possibility of this happening?
You misunderstand the purpose of the poe filter. It is not normally used to isolate the MoCA network from your own coax network, it is used to isolate and prevent feedback between your home coax network (all segments) and the external cable company network.

MoCa operates on a frequency that shouldn't interfere with anything in your home... however, it CAN cause feedback (reflections, etc) when it hits the cable company provider equipment outside of your home. Not using one also opens up the potential that if you are on a common coaxial segment outside of the home, others could pick up and access your MoCA network.
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Old 11-07-2013, 01:45 PM   #27
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This thread has inspired me to buy another NETGEAR GS108 switch and isolate my TiVo network to it. I don't use MoCa. The reason why is Ethernet is cleaner to me.

In the OP's diagram I don't see Ethernet to the MINIs. Don't you need Ethernet as well as Coax?
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Old 11-07-2013, 01:52 PM   #28
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In the OP's diagram I don't see Ethernet to the MINIs. Don't you need Ethernet as well as Coax?
Not needed. All Roamio-to-Mini communications can be over coax. That's the benefit of a moca network.

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Old 11-07-2013, 02:06 PM   #29
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This thread has inspired me to buy another NETGEAR GS108 switch and isolate my TiVo network to it. I don't use MoCa. The reason why is Ethernet is cleaner to me.

In the OP's diagram I don't see Ethernet to the MINIs. Don't you need Ethernet as well as Coax?
How are you isolating it exactly? If you trunk that new switch back to the other switch in order for internet access to work you really haven't isolated anything unless you've built a new VLAN for the TiVo network.
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Old 11-07-2013, 02:56 PM   #30
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How are you isolating it exactly? If you trunk that new switch back to the other switch in order for internet access to work you really haven't isolated anything unless you've built a new VLAN for the TiVo network.
You can physically isolate it. Any of the TiVos communicating on that segment will not go through the router. it will only go through the router to go to/from the internet or to get to another device on the network on a different segment. Since the majority of the high bandwidth data is between the TiVos, it isolates that traffic to that physical segment.

So for intstance I have an Asus router with four ports. Each of those four ports goes to a five or 8 port switch. And that forms the four segment sof my network. Now each of those switches have other siwtches connected to it. But any traffic on those four switches will stay on that network segment. Unless it traffic goes to/from the internet which will go through the switch in the router or a device in one segment communicates with a device on a different segment.

So I could have a pair of PCs on each segment and each pair of PCs could concurrently transfer content at 900Mb/s+ speeds between each other because the traffic on each segment will not go through the router.

Several years ago I had to set up my network this way because I have so many devices on it that I started having issues. It was either do this or purchase manageable gear. So I chose the soltuion that dd not cost me any extra money. And it has worked out very well with all the data I have going back and forth between devices.
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