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Old 10-19-2013, 04:42 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by bradleys View Post
I don't think it is nearly that nepharious.
I don't either, really. I am just pointing out how it COULD be. What potential exists. And some of what has happened. Plus I doubt all cable companies are the same.
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Old 10-19-2013, 09:15 PM   #32
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It was this Samsung box that prompted my thinking, which in turn prompted my OP. No DVR as you said but a cloud DVR is certainly possible. And, given Samsungs broader product lines you could easily imagine them ultimately dropping a bluray drive into it. Then you really do have a one box possibility (unless you're a big iTunes household in which case you'll likely always also need an ATV).

Edit: I know that the one box world I posit doesn't likely include plex or xbmc but I've always considered those things to be sort of fringe. Perhaps incredibly useful but adopted by no more than an extremely small % of people. No insult intended.
Yes, the moment I read you original post I immediately thought of the samsung media box I had read about a day or so ago on engadget.

Nothing like some extra competition! Tivo could completely dominate this playing field if they got their app support up to date. What no one has done so far very well is universal search across live tv and cloud based services.

Googletv anyone ... ? Yikes. No thanks.
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Old 10-19-2013, 10:28 PM   #33
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Roku doesn't do cable, doesn't do cable cards, and doesn't do SDV. For TiVo to do those things, they have to allow themselves to be bullied by the cable industry.
You don't consider the Time Warner live TV app on the Roku access to cable?

Don't get me wrong I am not in any way optimistic about any good apps ever coming to TiVo boxes. All I really want is better support and documentation that programs like PyTiVo and KMTTG can take access to.

Plex at least on Roku can't fast forward to my liking for streamed content. My slim hope is at some point that TiVo or someone can recreate playback on local content that is on par with TiVo to TiVo streaming and trickplay. Until it feels like a local recording streaming isn't for me.
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Old 10-19-2013, 11:24 PM   #34
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You don't consider the Time Warner live TV app on the Roku access to cable?
No. It has commercials and you can't skip them because you can't store the video so I don't consider it access to cable. It is a partial and far more restricted access to cable content only.

The industry LOVES streaming because it means they can force feed customers exactly what the companies want, when they want, and how they want. All while DRM'ing to death to make sure you can't store it or shift it to other devices or access it non-live.

I am not fond of the cable TV model, but I am not fond of the streaming-only model either. My ideal system would be one in which all content is delivered via IP to any device I want. It is requested and downloaded either on demand or scheduled. It is stored locally for however long I want so I can watch it how and when I want, skip or replay anything I want, and with or without a live internet connection. Payment can be by subscription or a-la-carte or something.

So far the only thing I have seen that comes anywhere near close to the above is the traditional Amazon video (NOT PRIME).
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Old 10-19-2013, 11:32 PM   #35
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I'm not looking forward to remote streaming apps and that's mostly because I already have other devices that can handle those and do it well. I know that some do, but I don't personally find switching inputs that difficult or cumbersome.

That said, I would like to see Tivo truly support 3rd party development on the app store by providing interfaces for other parties to hook in and improve the experience. If remote streaming apps use this app store, Amazon, HBO, ESPN, Showtime, Hulu, etc., then great but I would rather see something new and innovative on the platform that isn't readily available on Roku or Apple TV.

Maybe with the app store a developer can improve on what we already have as well. Like an updated, modern, music player. A new photo viewer to round out the experience wouldn't hurt either.
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Old 10-19-2013, 11:43 PM   #36
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Devx

Yes - but everyone needs to understand that TiVo itself isn't an open source project. We are not going to be changing or improving or customizing anything 'TiVo". I am sure that isn't what you meant, I just wanted to make it clear.

I do think there are a number of opportunities to expand on the old HME app platform and as you mentioned, create some really very cool companion apps - as I said before a big benefit would be if TiVo made some of their API's available like search and video player.
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Old 10-20-2013, 01:39 AM   #37
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Devx

Yes - but everyone needs to understand that TiVo itself isn't an open source project. We are not going to be changing or improving or customizing anything 'TiVo". I am sure that isn't what you meant, I just wanted to make it clear.

I do think there are a number of opportunities to expand on the old HME app platform and as you mentioned, create some really very cool companion apps - as I said before a big benefit would be if TiVo made some of their API's available like search and video player.
Reading my post again, I can see how it could probably be interpreted in some unintended ways. Let's see if I can clean it up a bit.

By experience, I meant the overall experience, not specifically the experience while using the Tivo core DVR UI. To clarify, I'm not expecting any changes to core functionality or the Tivo HDUI through the app store. Instead, just based on experience with current 3rd party apps, developers are already taking advantage of what Tivo exposes to its own apps. The current 3rd party apps improve the experience by providing what Tivo doesn't, or doesn't do as well. It would be great if Tivo expanded on that and provided additional supported interfaces for apps in the app store.

A point I should have added to my previous post is regardless of what Tivo does with the app store, they still need to protect core functionality. It won't matter how great a new app is if it can manage to destabilize the platform and there are box reboots, missing recordings, etc.
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Old 10-20-2013, 11:25 AM   #38
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TiVo will not only protect their core functionality they will also protect the TiVo brand, which means no skinning of the UI or replacing core functionality with aftermarket apps. It is entirely possible that another media player (Plex etc) will become available for TiVo, but I certainly am not holding my breath expecting it to happen.
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Old 10-20-2013, 12:06 PM   #39
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Don't we already know what apps to expect? It should be almost the same apps that are available in the Opera TV Store since it is using that SDK. I assume it may require those companies to re-submit them to TiVo but maybe not.
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Old 10-20-2013, 12:47 PM   #40
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Opera is still a relatively immature platform as far as apps go, and we don't know if there are any TiVo specific framework code that will be required for apps to be included in the TiVo App Store.

I think people are considering what cool things "might" be developed.
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Old 10-20-2013, 04:36 PM   #41
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No. It has commercials and you can't skip them because you can't store the video so I don't consider it access to cable. It is a partial and far more restricted access to cable content only.
I guess then hooking your TV up to the wall or using a Set top box from your cable provider that isn't a DVR isn't access to cable by your definition either then.
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Old 10-20-2013, 06:23 PM   #42
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I guess then hooking your TV up to the wall or using a Set top box from your cable provider that isn't a DVR isn't access to cable by your definition either then.


OK, you got me on that. But I wouldn't ever do that. I would rather watch no TV than have no DVR capability. But in your example, it still has the POTENTIAL to be handled by a DVR. You can't with a streaming system.
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Old 10-28-2013, 11:13 PM   #43
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It was this Samsung box that prompted my thinking, which in turn prompted my OP. No DVR as you said but a cloud DVR is certainly possible. And, given Samsungs broader product lines you could easily imagine them ultimately dropping a bluray drive into it. Then you really do have a one box possibility (unless you're a big iTunes household in which case you'll likely always also need an ATV).

Edit: I know that the one box world I posit doesn't likely include plex or xbmc but I've always considered those things to be sort of fringe. Perhaps incredibly useful but adopted by no more than an extremely small % of people. No insult intended.
I picked up one of these boxes to try out ... tivo have nothing to worry about !

On one hand it's essentially the same as a 2013 Samsung BD player minus disk playback but adding a cable tuner.

This means the box supports Samsungs apps platform and DLNA. Note the box doesn't support DTS and respects Cinavia.

It does have cross service search including the live TV guide which is quite cool. The guide however is pretty awful and sloooow. As is changing channel.

Also if you turn on 24p output the box takes ages to switch from 60p to 24p.

Overall ... It just ok .... I'm not really sure who the box will appeal to. I guess folks renting a basic cable box (digital) wanting to maybe save a few bucks.

But the box does offer good apps support and DLNA ... Be it crippled somewhat.
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Old 10-28-2013, 11:17 PM   #44
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Back to the apps discussion with the tivo Roamio platform. I think we maybe reading more into the Opera tv store. I don't believe the Opera tv store will be the only avenue for new apps support with tivo. I think it just a fast way for tivo to quickly support lots of new apps.

I still believe additional apps will be developed that will run outside of opera.
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Old 11-01-2013, 02:30 PM   #45
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I'm enjoying my new TiVo Roamio (and Minis) but I am very surprised that Amazon Prime is not supported, especially since Netflix, Hulu Plus, and Amazon instant video are all supported. Amazon Prime seems like the one that should be there but was forgotten or omitted for some reason.

I opened a support ticket with TiVo to ask if there were plans to support it in the future, and if so, what the time line might be. The initial response that I got back was that there were not currently any plans to support Amazon Prime on Roamio, but that I should submit their online "feature request form" if it was something I would like to see added. When I expressed my disappointed, I received a follow-up response from TiVo that said:
"We haven't made any announcements regarding Amazon
Prime on TiVo boxes, but it's definitely something we would
like to see. I would strongly suggest keeping an eye on the
Press Releases for more information."

I submitted the online "feature request form" for Amazon Prime, and in case anyone else would like to submit the form for Amazon Prime (or anything else), the online form is very quick and easy to fill out and submit, and it can be found here:

=> http://advisors.tivo.com/wix9/p2272893819.aspx


I'm hoping a lot of people will request Amazon Prime support, so that they might prioritize a project for it. :-)

-Joe
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Old 11-01-2013, 02:40 PM   #46
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I'm hoping a lot of people will request Amazon Prime support, so that they might prioritize a project for it. :-)

-Joe
I'm with Joe. Also on my wishlist is SiriusXM Radio.
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Old 11-02-2013, 09:12 AM   #47
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I'm enjoying my new TiVo Roamio (and Minis) but I am very surprised that Amazon Prime is not supported, especially since Netflix, Hulu Plus, and Amazon instant video are all supported. Amazon Prime seems like the one that should be there but was forgotten or omitted for some reason.
This has been a common complaint since Amazon Prime Streaming first existed. I stopped holding my breath.

It's kind of like Roku and Youtube. Doesn't make any sense, but there you are.
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Old 11-02-2013, 10:57 AM   #48
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From what I understand, the ball is in Amazon's court, so any inquires should go to Amazon. It is their app to build.
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Old 11-02-2013, 11:29 AM   #49
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Good point. Thanks for the tip!

I just sent a message to Amazon customer support.

It looks like this issue has existed for a long time, but I figure it can't hurt to fire off a couple quick "feature requests" to both parties.

-Joe
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Old 11-02-2013, 11:45 AM   #50
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I keep saying and I truly believe the reason we haven't seen Amazon Prime on the Premiere line is that Amazon wouldn't sign off on the laggy platform. Not good for their brand image - think about how many people complain about Netflix!

I do believe that we will see Amazon Prime on the Roamio, it may come with the App Store or it may require enough of an install base to make it with Amazon's time and effort to develop - but I predict it will come!

Keep watching those press releases!!!!!
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