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Old 10-26-2013, 02:14 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Worf View Post
But doesn't the Roamio already have component outputs? Why not just use that and use the passthrough connection?
Plus & Pro models do. The base only has a composite output which requires a breakout cable.
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Old 10-26-2013, 06:37 AM   #92
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Curious that it's limited to Pro/Plus for now, and not the standalone Stream. I wonder if that's a marketing decision, or if there's a real technical reason?

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Originally Posted by bradleys View Post
When people discuss FIOS generally they are talking about Verizon Communications, I assume you have Frontier Communications and yes, they have set different rules.
Yeah, "Fios" without qualifier = Verizon Fios. Frontier Fios (or the other spinoff; I forget its name) = Faux-ios.
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Old 10-26-2013, 10:15 AM   #93
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Curious that it's limited to Pro/Plus for now, and not the standalone Stream. I wonder if that's a marketing decision, or if there's a real technical reason?
As I understand it they are releasing the software for the standalone stream as a part of the Premiere fall software release.
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Old 10-26-2013, 10:37 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcbrine View Post
Yeah, "Fios" without qualifier = Verizon Fios. Frontier Fios (or the other spinoff; I forget its name) = Faux-ios.
Hey now. Except for the copy protection and the better customer service, our FiOS is identical to Verizon's.
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Old 10-27-2013, 07:38 AM   #95
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Is there a way to get component out on a Roamio base with such a converter? (or possibly a breakout cable)

If so, I might pick up a Slingbox 350 to replace my Stream
The Roamio base unit has a composite output. If you are looking for OOH streaming, the 480 lines resolution that you get from the composite out may be about all your upstream connection plus internet and local wifi wherever you are will support anyway. Its a pretty rare occurace that true HD makes it out reliably and continuously unless you have a very high end internet connection with lots of upstream bandwidth.

I use a stream 350 with the composite out put. I had intended to go the HDfury route but decided to give this a try before spending more money. Its pretty darn good for streaming to a tablet or phone. You may also decide its good enough.
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Old 10-27-2013, 07:46 AM   #96
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The Roamio base unit has a composite output. If you are looking for OOH streaming, the 480 lines resolution that you get from the composite out may be about all your upstream connection plus internet and local wifi wherever you are will support anyway. Its a pretty rare occurace that true HD makes it out reliably and continuously unless you have a very high end internet connection with lots of upstream bandwidth.
I don't think it's that rare... have one of the lower FiOS plans 50 down, 25 up. And while you may not be bothered on an iPhone screen, you're likely to notice/miss the difference between 480i and 480p+ on larger displays (like tablets and big phones). And what we've learned is that TiVo has a much narrower band of adaptive bitrate to work with, suggesting Sling will do better under lower and higher bandwidth.
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Old 10-27-2013, 10:00 AM   #97
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I don't think it's that rare... have one of the lower FiOS plans 50 down, 25 up. And while you may not be bothered on an iPhone screen, you're likely to notice/miss the difference between 480i and 480p+ on larger displays (like tablets and big phones). And what we've learned is that TiVo has a much narrower band of adaptive bitrate to work with, suggesting Sling will do better under lower and higher bandwidth.
OK not "that rare", which could mean 5% or 10%. Most of us don't have such high upload bandwidth options as FIOS offers. I guess it's typical of those who "have" to start thinking they are the mainstream case. I remember Verizon stopping FIOS build outs. Are there any fiber-into-the-home build outs going on now, or planned, other than the Google cities?
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Old 10-27-2013, 10:02 AM   #98
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Are there any fiber-into-the-home build outs going on now, or planned?

Google Fiber
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Old 10-27-2013, 10:12 AM   #99
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OK not "that rare", which could mean 5% or 10%. Most of us don't have such high upload bandwidth options as FIOS offers. I guess it's typical of those who "have" to start thinking they are the mainstream case. I remember Verizon stopping FIOS build outs. Are there any fiber-into-the-home build outs going on now, or planned, other than the Google cities?
Lower end Xfinity Internet is 20/4 which is sufficient for better-than-480i 100% of the time. Mid tier Xfinity is 50/10 which has more than enough overhead for HD full time. The only folks who are really impacted would be those on DSL or unwilling to pay a bit more for better bandwidth. And the beauty of Sling and even TiVo is the adaptive bitrate - you'll get better quality when the upload and download conditions allow it.

For point of reference, at it's peak streaming capabilities TiVo Stream/Roamio only uses 2.2Megabit. Efficient codecs and high compression at play. I'd advise avoiding composite outputs.
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Old 10-27-2013, 10:27 AM   #100
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I'm glad I did not buy the Roamio plus for it's streaming capabilities . I have 120 Mbps download / 20 Mbps upload and I get freezing at the house .

I can't get streaming to work outside my house because it said I had not setup streaming when in fact I did . So right now and as can be seen by the Apple reviews of the Tivo app, it's not a reliable streamer .
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Old 10-27-2013, 01:41 PM   #101
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I'm glad I did not buy the Roamio plus for it's streaming capabilities . I have 120 Mbps download / 20 Mbps upload and I get freezing at the house .

I can't get streaming to work outside my house because it said I had not setup streaming when in fact I did . So right now and as can be seen by the Apple reviews of the Tivo app, it's not a reliable streamer .
Are you using WiFi or hardwired to your Roamio?
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Old 10-27-2013, 01:56 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by jimmypowder View Post
I'm glad I did not buy the Roamio plus for it's streaming capabilities . I have 120 Mbps download / 20 Mbps upload and I get freezing at the house .

I can't get streaming to work outside my house because it said I had not setup streaming when in fact I did . So right now and as can be seen by the Apple reviews of the Tivo app, it's not a reliable streamer .
Sounds like you've got some other issue.

As for the setup you have to do it again and make sure there is a check next to the out of home options.
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Old 10-27-2013, 02:22 PM   #103
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FYI, looks like going through the check in iOS app and enabling OOH results in "Proxy Enabled" check box being enabled when checking Stream sysinfo:
http://<streamIP>:49152/sysinfo
Before performing the check on an iPad Mini the "Proxy Enabled" check box was not enabled.
So looks like the process registers the iOS device MAC address with the TiVo Proxy server to allow OOH streaming.
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Old 10-27-2013, 02:49 PM   #104
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Lower end Xfinity Internet is 20/4 which is sufficient for better-than-480i 100% of the time. Mid tier Xfinity is 50/10 which has more than enough overhead for HD full time. The only folks who are really impacted would be those on DSL or unwilling to pay a bit more for better bandwidth. And the beauty of Sling and even TiVo is the adaptive bitrate - you'll get better quality when the upload and download conditions allow it.

For point of reference, at it's peak streaming capabilities TiVo Stream/Roamio only uses 2.2Megabit. Efficient codecs and high compression at play. I'd advise avoiding composite outputs.
I'm on TWC "standard" internet with only 1 Mbps uploads. However I see I can pay $20/mo more and get 5 Mbps uploads. So your point is taken, unless TWC has data caps or other restrictions on the use of that service. Hard to believe but such info is hard to get from their web site.
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Old 10-27-2013, 04:12 PM   #105
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Are you using WiFi or hardwired to your Roamio?
Hardwired via a Ethernet hub . I only use one device at a time via the hub .
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Old 10-28-2013, 07:09 AM   #106
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Lower end Xfinity Internet is 20/4 which is sufficient for better-than-480i 100% of the time. Mid tier Xfinity is 50/10 which has more than enough overhead for HD full time. The only folks who are really impacted would be those on DSL or unwilling to pay a bit more for better bandwidth. And the beauty of Sling and even TiVo is the adaptive bitrate - you'll get better quality when the upload and download conditions allow it.

For point of reference, at it's peak streaming capabilities TiVo Stream/Roamio only uses 2.2Megabit. Efficient codecs and high compression at play. I'd advise avoiding composite outputs.
Nice that you live in an area served by FIOS. I and many others are not so lucky. Currently have a 12/.768 DSL business line. Runs $26 a month all in. The other provider in my area is Comcast and the least expensive option better than what I currently have is a 25/2 line from them, at $95 a month. Comcast Xfinity home use is capped and I would exceed their cap with the streaming and data use we have so a business line that is uncapped is required via ATT or Comcast. Its not worth $70 a month for the slight improvement. Comcast also does not warranty the data speeds, its 'up to' ATT has contract minimums and they do honor it, repairing lines when service suffers. I have been with them for about 6 yrs now and while I wish they would upgrade to provide higher bandwidth, what I do have works well. I cannot say the same for Comcast that we put up with for years prior to that.
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Old 10-28-2013, 01:35 PM   #107
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I recently bougt a Tivo Roamio Plus and just talked to a tech support person who told me that streaming outside the home network is not available yet. I thought the Plus and Pro
could do this now.

I have not been able to get streaming outside the home network to work . All the buttons are greyed out on Watch Now.
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Old 10-28-2013, 01:48 PM   #108
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I recently bougt a Tivo Roamio Plus and just talked to a tech support person who told me that streaming outside the home network is not available yet. I thought the Plus and Pro
could do this now.

I have not been able to get streaming outside the home network to work . All the buttons are greyed out on Watch Now.
It works for the Roamio Plus & Pro. You have to run setup on the app while connected to your home wifi. This verifies that the device is allowed to stream outside the home. After that streaming will only work when connected to wifi, but download will work when connected to either wifi or LTE.

Also the out of home streaming is protected by CCI byte. Which means you will not be able to stream or download anything your cable company marks as protected. In most areas the only channels marked as protected are premium channels, but in some areas, especially those serviced by Time Warner, they protect everything so the feature is basically useless.
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Old 10-28-2013, 02:02 PM   #109
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And I still don't understand WTF that's all about. Preventing us from downloading shows with the CCI byte makes sense. Why can't we stream them? I thought streaming was meant to address that. Feels to me like TiVo is being too cautious with this, to the detriment of customer experience.
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Old 10-28-2013, 02:04 PM   #110
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I recently bougt a Tivo Roamio Plus and just talked to a tech support person who told me that streaming outside the home network is not available yet. I thought the Plus and Pro
could do this now.

I have not been able to get streaming outside the home network to work . All the buttons are greyed out on Watch Now.
Remember - this only works if you using a WiFi signal. It will not work using your Tablet or phone cellular connection.

That update is scheduled for sometime in 2014 once Apple approves TiVo's implementation.

So - you need to setup the streaming services from the IOS app while you are on your home wifi network.

AND

The service will only work when you are connected to a WiFi connection away from home. (some cellualar functionality does exist, but is true for what you are requesting)
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Old 10-28-2013, 03:23 PM   #111
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Remember - this only works if you using a WiFi signal. It will not work using your Tablet or phone cellular connection. That update is scheduled for sometime in 2014 once Apple approves TiVo's implementation. So - you need to setup the streaming services from the IOS app while you are on your home wifi network. AND The service will only work when you are connected to a WiFi connection away from home. (some cellualar functionality does exist, but is true for what you are requesting)
Yeah I know this . I just received an update notice for the Tivo app, downloaded it , and I'm at the Apple Store and I can now watch tv on wifi away
From the home .

Great !
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Old 10-28-2013, 03:26 PM   #112
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And I still don't understand WTF that's all about. Preventing us from downloading shows with the CCI byte makes sense. Why can't we stream them? I thought streaming was meant to address that. Feels to me like TiVo is being too cautious with this, to the detriment of customer experience.
I agree, but we don't really know what sort of push back they're getting from CableLabs on this. Outside the home streaming is not something that is covered in the CableCARD specification and there is no precedent for this anywhere else. The only device on the market that allows outside the home streaming from all channels is the Dish DVR with built in Slingbox and they are currently being sued by several networks over that feature. Perhaps TiVo is waiting to see how that pans out before they push their luck and wind up in court too.
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Old 10-29-2013, 11:12 AM   #113
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Grrrrr.... So we TWC subscribers can't do OOH on the vast majority of our channels. And TiVo is hiding this limitation in obscure fine print in the FAQ for the Roamio's, just as they did for TTG for earlier models, e.g.:
Quote:
Due to the copy protection assigned by the content provider, not all content can be downloaded to your mobile device for offline viewing, and not all content can be streamed when you are away from your local network.
So a TWC subscriber easily could spend hundreds of $$ getting a Roamio and then find OOH is almost useless to them. I have a Tivo HD with lifetime sub and could get comparable OOH capability by adding a SlingBox 350 for well under $200, correct? I realize you must use component video/audio outputs to do this, but I'm already connected to my TV that way because the HD would lock up using HDMI.

I think not being more forthcoming with the copy protection limits on OOH is bad on Tivo.
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Old 10-29-2013, 12:01 PM   #114
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I think not being more forthcoming with the copy protection limits on OOH is bad on Tivo.
It was reported by the reviewers before the Roamio was released and has been discussed here ad nauseam for weeks.

You have a TiVo HD? So you haven't purchased a Roamio or even a Premiere? Then you don't have Stream and haven't been duped by a non-forthcoming TiVo?

I am just trying to get my facts straight.


I also think it is garbage that we don't have a cable labs legal interpretation of this decision. I don't know whether to be upset at TiVo or not...

Disclaimer: I have FIOS and not the ultra restrictive TWC
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Old 10-29-2013, 12:11 PM   #115
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It was reported by the reviewers before the Roamio was released and has been discussed here ad nauseam for weeks.
Regular consumers don't visit here. And no, this wasn't reported by reviewers before the Roamio was released. There was conjecture, assumptions and reassurances, none of which were based on facts (we later learned.)

Even we were wondering with baited breath how this would play out, and only until getting the app update in our hands last week were we able to finally see just how restrictive OOH streaming was going to be, for those cable subscribers whose channels are all set with the CCI byte. (Like myself, on Time Warner.)

I had been led to assume that streaming was the solution here, and that it'd work just as well out of the home as it does inside the home. It wasn't until about a month ago that it was floated that TiVo would devise another way to let the wind our of my sails and disappoint us, yet again.

That being said, regular consumers don't get nearly the same amount of information as we do. And many, I assure you, will be surprised to see just how limited OOH streaming actually is. dlfl's point stands.
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Old 10-29-2013, 12:48 PM   #116
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You can't expect TiVo to put in big letters as if it is a feature "hey this might not work when you get it home". No one would even consider it. They do not hide the fact that it doesn't work with CCI restricted content. It's a balance to be sure, but they're not duping anyone.
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Old 10-29-2013, 12:59 PM   #117
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Why don't you complain to your cable company about the restrictions instead of bashing tivo for your cable company's restrictions?
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Old 10-29-2013, 01:00 PM   #118
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Duping? No. Bending over and taking it up the butt from their MSO friends yet again, while simultaneously screwing a large portion of their retail customers (you know, the ones that bought your boxes)? Yes.

Tivo is equally if not more at blame here because they decided that in-home streaming is ok, but OOH is not. I seriously doubt TWC et al gives a crap because the precedent already exists to allow streaming.
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Old 10-29-2013, 01:15 PM   #119
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Duping? No. Bending over and taking it up the butt from their MSO friends yet again, while simultaneously screwing a large portion of their retail customers (you know, the ones that bought your boxes)? Yes.

Tivo is equally if not more at blame here because they decided that in-home streaming is ok, but OOH is not. I seriously doubt TWC et al gives a crap because the precedent already exists to allow streaming.
This. 1000%.
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Old 10-29-2013, 01:26 PM   #120
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Duping? No. Bending over and taking it up the butt from their MSO friends yet again, while simultaneously screwing a large portion of their retail customers (you know, the ones that bought your boxes)? Yes.

Tivo is equally if not more at blame here because they decided that in-home streaming is ok, but OOH is not. I seriously doubt TWC et al gives a crap because the precedent already exists to allow streaming.
I'm sure if they could completely ignore the CCI flag, they would. Why would they want to piss off their customers? The fact is, however, that they are at the mercy of CableLabs. If they don't follow whatever rules CableLabs put forth, then they don't get Cable Card approval and then they're out of business. If CableLabs said they had to paint the lobby of their headquarters neon green, they'd have to do it.

And if TWC didn't care, they wouldn't be setting the CCI flag.
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