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Old 10-14-2013, 01:40 PM   #1231
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I don't know what "quietest ever" means, but I can hear a Red drive like any other hard drive out there. They still make noise.
It may be a reference to one of my posts - I put a Red drive in my Roamio Basic, and I can only hear the hum of the drive with my ear a few inches from the case, and I can't hear this drive seek. Compared to the ~2 year old Green AV drive that is in the TiVo HD this Basic replaced, the Red drive is much quieter - for me it's essentially undetectable in the room. I could hear the TiVo HD seeking if it was very quiet otherwise.

...by "seeking" I mean the ticking noises you can hear when a drive is reading/writing data.
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Old 10-14-2013, 10:59 PM   #1232
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FYI, in light of Amazon's decision to jack up the price of a WD30EURS from $135 to $145, you can get them for $125 from Provantage.
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Old 10-15-2013, 08:09 AM   #1233
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Amazon prices are always in a state of flux. They can change multiple times during the course of a day sometimes. And it's certainly not unusual for the price to change daily
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Old 10-15-2013, 08:15 AM   #1234
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It may be a reference to one of my posts - I put a Red drive in my Roamio Basic, and I can only hear the hum of the drive with my ear a few inches from the case, and I can't hear this drive seek. Compared to the ~2 year old Green AV drive that is in the TiVo HD this Basic replaced, the Red drive is much quieter - for me it's essentially undetectable in the room. I could hear the TiVo HD seeking if it was very quiet otherwise.

...by "seeking" I mean the ticking noises you can hear when a drive is reading/writing data.
Anandtech compared NAS drives about a week ago. The lowest noise db rating went to the Seagate NAS drive. I have the 3TB Seagate NAS drive in my Roamio Plus and can barely hear it. It's definitely not silent, but also not disruptive. YMMV
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Old 10-17-2013, 09:28 AM   #1235
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Has anyone put an upgraded drive in here and THEN plugged in one of the extenders? If one already has a 3TB drive in the TiVo and then plugs in a 1TB external, will it cause a problem?

I remember reading about problems with 4TB earlier on in this thread, was just curious.
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Old 10-17-2013, 09:32 AM   #1236
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The only problem with what you are describing is that you are introducing a single point of failure in your system. If the extender fails or gets disconnected you will lose everything on both drives.

Extenders are a poor value proposition from the perspective of reliability of your TiVo recordings.

From a technical perspective there should not be a problem with adding an extender to a 3TB TiVo.
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Old 10-17-2013, 08:29 PM   #1237
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Does upgrading hard drives void the Tivo warranty?

So if I plan to upgrade and want an extended warranty, I should check out SquareTrade?
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Old 10-17-2013, 08:30 PM   #1238
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Does upgrading hard drives void the Tivo warranty?

So if I plan to upgrade and want an extended warranty, I should check out SquareTrade?
Yes, if they find out, but its only 90 days.
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Old 10-18-2013, 12:42 AM   #1239
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Has anyone stuck a THD or Premiere upgraded HDD straight into the Roamio and saw what happens?

I certainly don't expect it to "work" or retain any data, but I'm curious if the Roamio freaks out in any way (hangs/looping reboots) or just treats it like a blank drive?
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Old 10-18-2013, 02:34 AM   #1240
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Has anyone stuck a THD or Premiere upgraded HDD straight into the Roamio and saw what happens?

I certainly don't expect it to "work" or retain any data, but I'm curious if the Roamio freaks out in any way (hangs/looping reboots) or just treats it like a blank drive?


Treats it like a blank drive, no problem
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Old 10-19-2013, 08:26 PM   #1241
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Has anyone stuck a THD or Premiere upgraded HDD straight into the Roamio and saw what happens?

I certainly don't expect it to "work" or retain any data, but I'm curious if the Roamio freaks out in any way (hangs/looping reboots) or just treats it like a blank drive?
I moved a 3TB drive that had been upgraded in a Roamio basic to a Roamio Plus. I thought it would treat it as a blank drive but it booted up but with many error codes showing on the screen.

Eventually, I wound up wiping the drive with "HDD LLF Low Level Format Tool".

http://hddguru.com/software/HDD-LLF-...l-Format-Tool/

Select the option to "quick wipe" the MBR and partitions (takes about 5 seconds). After reinstalling the drive in the Plus, the upgrade went as expected and been running fine since.
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Old 10-19-2013, 09:58 PM   #1242
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I moved a 3TB drive that had been upgraded in a Roamio basic to a Roamio Plus. I thought it would treat it as a blank drive but it booted up but with many error codes showing on the screen.

Eventually, I wound up wiping the drive with "HDD LLF Low Level Format Tool".

http://hddguru.com/software/HDD-LLF-...l-Format-Tool/

Select the option to "quick wipe" the MBR and partitions (takes about 5 seconds). After reinstalling the drive in the Plus, the upgrade went as expected and been running fine since.
I also moved an upgraded drive from a Basic to a Plus and there were errors after it started up but I attributed those to "security" errors. Tivos are designed to prevent a drive working in another box, even if the model is the exact same, to prevent piracy and uphold copyrights. A clear and delete everything on the Plus fixed it.

What I found interesting in my case, is that, while the drive was upgraded, there was no subscription, recordings (no coax hooked up at all), or CC's on it for either box. It wasn't linked to any account but it still complained and requested a reboot on the Plus. Ultimately it wasn't fully accepting of the new drive until I did the C&DE though. No outside software needed for mine.
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Old 10-22-2013, 12:27 AM   #1243
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Right after they finish upgrading the SD Settings...
Ha! Too true.

Personally I don't get the fuss over the SD settings - how often are you really hanging out in the settings menus? And on older boxes, aside from being faster (which the Romeo seems to have FINALLY addressed) you don't have the asinine video window in the guide - so I personally hope they always leave the option for the SD menus.

Now get off my lawn...
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Old 10-22-2013, 12:35 AM   #1244
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I'm in Las Vegas. Cox here doesn't do as most other Cox markets do.
That's because they were too cheap to upgrade from when they bought out prime cable. Gawd how I hated prime cable. Only surpassed in horribleness by the crappy cable company that was in Boulder City before prime bought them out
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Old 10-22-2013, 12:47 AM   #1245
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If you want to get really technical, the WD Red "NAS-specific" drives are also "GreenPower" because they spin around 5400.
Actually, the Red drives have one very important feature - bearings at both ends of the drive spindle - usually reserved for SAS drives. The couple of Red drives I have seem to be the same temperature as the Seagate's and Hitachi's I also have. Even if they cost a few dollars more, the added durability of the dual bearings means Red is all I buy now.
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Old 10-22-2013, 01:21 AM   #1246
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I have witnessed them shrink-wrap returned products, and not apply a sticker, while observing that half their PC component inventory has returned-product stickers.
Gee, after reading this thread I wonder why that might be?
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Old 10-22-2013, 02:14 AM   #1247
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That might be true with car warranties, but I don't think it applies to electronics. With electronics a simple static shock to any component in the case could cause failure of the whole system so I think simply proving you opened the case would be enough to deny a warranty repair.
Perhaps, but it's far from the slam dunk you are implying. BTW it's the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act and while it started with cars, it applies to any products sold to consumers.

Fighting Tivo would probably cost more than a new Tivo - just depends on if you want to prove a point. If their only defense was "you opened the case" then I'm pretty sure that would be a slam dunk in your favor. IANAL and usual disclaimers apply, but really legal stuff has far more common sense than people act. Which is why you tend to see responsible companies like Tivo not jerk people around unless they have a really good reason.

Then again, I still can't believe earlier in this thread people were discussing strategies to buy local to potentially abuse returns then complaining when others had done the same! And they wonder why Tivo write's their policies the way they do? Unbelievable...
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Old 10-22-2013, 02:29 AM   #1248
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The shipping process is very bad on a hard drive.
Especially if the shipping is done improperly which has been the majority of time I have ordered bare, non-retail drives from just about any reseller - including Newegg and Amazon

If you want to see how drives should be packed, go to Seagate or WD's web sites and start the warranty claim process - they will have links to instructions specifying how to ship the drives back to 'em. Did your retailer do the same when they shipped the drive to you? If not, I would just save you the trouble now and ship the drive back to 'em - it WILL fail sooner or later. Not long after I stopped buying bare/OEM drives but full retail (which come with proper packaging from the manufacturer end-to-end) did I stop having perpetual problems with failing drives - fancy that . Between Tivo's and five computers I have at least 20 drives spinning right now. Ugh...

I now only buy retail drives, and locally. Luckily for me, Microcenter here on the east coast seems to be as good as or beat Fry's on a routine basis now - I think Fry's is coasting on their reputation, much like Newegg started to do a few years back. Shop around!
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Old 10-22-2013, 02:41 AM   #1249
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Other people, who don't have you on their ignore list, will see this and could come to the conclusion they are a disreputable company to do business with, which they are not.
I dunno - they were condescending and rude in an email to me - and I'm far from the only one. Ironically I ran across their entry in Yelp! tonight while looking for something else and was amused by the even number of five star reviews raving about them, and then the totally opposite one star reviews with the one star reviews mirroring my experience with the forum golden boys. I didn't even know that Yelp! had reviews for non-food places. Who knew that being jerks to at least some of your customers might surface on that new-fangled Internet thing
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Old 10-22-2013, 03:11 AM   #1250
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Correct....but Apple reps will almost immediately blame any 3rd party components in the system....RAM being one of them. I've experienced it first hand and it was just easier to put the stock memory back in than argue with them.
Funny - my MacBook Pro with upgraded RAM and the DVD Drive swapped out for an SSD (!!) didn't even raise an eyebrow from them. They even replaced my case because it was buffed and scratched while it was in for repair, and I didn't ask them to - I was appreciative that they basically made my five year old computer look brand new.

Perhaps you just got a Genius having a bad day... or perhaps they didn't like the cut of your jib? Personally I have nothing but stellar service from Apple and very liberal replacement or repairing of any device I have brought into them - with or without AppleCare. Which always makes me suspicious when people claim problems for something as benign as memory, which Apple clearly defines as user serviceable.
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Old 10-22-2013, 08:30 AM   #1251
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Ha! Too true.

Personally I don't get the fuss over the SD settings - how often are you really hanging out in the settings menus? And on older boxes, aside from being faster (which the Romeo seems to have FINALLY addressed) you don't have the asinine video window in the guide - so I personally hope they always leave the option for the SD menus.

Now get off my lawn...
I would like it to be upgraded so that no matter what screen I go to, I will have the preview window in the upper right. Right now when you go to those SD screens the windows disappears. I would expect the window to always be there no matter what screen I'm on. It would certainly make a consistent user experience.
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Old 10-22-2013, 07:01 PM   #1252
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I just upgraded my Roamio from the included 500GB drive to a 3TB drive with no issues as instructed in this forum. I've seen some comments about recommending not adding an external drive to introduce single points of failure. While that would increase the single points of failure, there still exists a single point of failure (obviously) that can't be eliminated currently w/ TiVo DVRs. One of the things about DTV that I liked was that when you added an external HD, it would use that drive exclusively and not both the external and internal drives. What's nice about that is one could actually eliminate the single point of failure for the HD by using an external (HW) RAID1 eSATA dual drive enclosure. I've done that for years with DTV DVRs w/ (2) 2TB drives in the external HW based RAID array and DTV just saw this as a single 2TB drive and when (not if) I lost a drive, it kept humming along until I replaced it and then "automagically" re-established the RAID1 mirror. Which is nice so you don't lose hundreds of recordings. If TiVO would automatically or manually use just the external drive when attached, then I would switch out to external drives again with a HW RAID1 enclosure.
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Old 10-22-2013, 10:57 PM   #1253
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I just upgraded my Roamio from the included 500GB drive to a 3TB drive with no issues as instructed in this forum. I've seen some comments about recommending not adding an external drive to introduce single points of failure. While that would increase the single points of failure, there still exists a single point of failure (obviously) that can't be eliminated currently w/ TiVo DVRs. One of the things about DTV that I liked was that when you added an external HD, it would use that drive exclusively and not both the external and internal drives. What's nice about that is one could actually eliminate the single point of failure for the HD by using an external (HW) RAID1 eSATA dual drive enclosure. I've done that for years with DTV DVRs w/ (2) 2TB drives in the external HW based RAID array and DTV just saw this as a single 2TB drive and when (not if) I lost a drive, it kept humming along until I replaced it and then "automagically" re-established the RAID1 mirror. Which is nice so you don't lose hundreds of recordings. If TiVO would automatically or manually use just the external drive when attached, then I would switch out to external drives again with a HW RAID1 enclosure.
I've thought about that. Could you disconnect the internal eSATA connector and connect the cable going to the external eSATA port to that motherboard connector? That should make the external connector the one and only drive. It could then be attached to a Synology RAID enclosure (or Seagate or whatever) which should work as you describe. Is anybody up for an adventure?
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Old 10-22-2013, 11:06 PM   #1254
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I purchased a WD30EURS off ebay but ended up with a WD30EURX, the plus uses the X as well the only odd thing i noticed was the drive didnt say GP-AV just GP but so far it's been ok. Dont know if anyone has used the same drive
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Old 10-22-2013, 11:07 PM   #1255
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I've thought about that. Could you disconnect the internal eSATA connector and connect the cable going to the external eSATA port to that motherboard connector? That should make the external connector the one and only drive. It could then be attached to a Synology RAID enclosure (or Seagate or whatever) which should work as you describe. Is anybody up for an adventure?
Well for starters a Synology is not an enclosure it's a network attached storage. Also the TiVo needs to partition and format the drive and I doubt it will do that with a RAID cage.
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Old 10-22-2013, 11:26 PM   #1256
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Well for starters a Synology is not an enclosure it's a network attached storage. Also the TiVo needs to partition and format the drive and I doubt it will do that with a RAID cage.
I don't have much experience with RAID, but don't some Synology boxes (and others) also have eSATA connectors? And once configured, shouldn't a hardware RAID box look just like a single drive to whatever is connected to it? If not, what is the point of hardware RAID?
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Old 10-22-2013, 11:43 PM   #1257
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I don't have much experience with RAID, but don't some Synology boxes (and others) also have eSATA connectors? And once configured, shouldn't a hardware RAID box look just like a single drive to whatever is connected to it? If not, what is the point of hardware RAID?
The eSata port on a NAS is so you can connect external drives to the NAS, not use them as direct connected storage on a PC. You are thinking of something like an eSata Drobo (the non network flavor).... And, this is getting really off topic.
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Old 10-22-2013, 11:57 PM   #1258
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The eSata port on a NAS is so you can connect external drives to the NAS, not use them as direct connected storage on a PC. You are thinking of something like an eSata Drobo (the non network flavor).... And, this is getting really off topic.
Besides, then your Drobo dies and while the drives may be ok you can’t get it serviced or replaced and then what? If you really like a show that much, buy it on DVD or use TiVo desktop to move the shows off the TiVo. Do they still have that?
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Old 10-23-2013, 10:32 AM   #1259
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I just upgraded my Roamio from the included 500GB drive to a 3TB drive with no issues as instructed in this forum. I've seen some comments about recommending not adding an external drive to introduce single points of failure. While that would increase the single points of failure, there still exists a single point of failure (obviously) that can't be eliminated currently w/ TiVo DVRs. One of the things about DTV that I liked was that when you added an external HD, it would use that drive exclusively and not both the external and internal drives. What's nice about that is one could actually eliminate the single point of failure for the HD by using an external (HW) RAID1 eSATA dual drive enclosure. I've done that for years with DTV DVRs w/ (2) 2TB drives in the external HW based RAID array and DTV just saw this as a single 2TB drive and when (not if) I lost a drive, it kept humming along until I replaced it and then "automagically" re-established the RAID1 mirror. Which is nice so you don't lose hundreds of recordings. If TiVO would automatically or manually use just the external drive when attached, then I would switch out to external drives again with a HW RAID1 enclosure.
That's forbidden by cablecard regulations from CableLabs, which don't need to be followed by DirecTV but do need to be followed by TiVo. CableLabs was paranoid about recordings escaping the approved cablecard device.
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Old 10-23-2013, 12:51 PM   #1260
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Question...would the Roamio recognize a drive lager than 1TB if dropped into a MyDVR Expander enclosure?
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