TiVo Community
TiVo Community
TiVo Community
Go Back   TiVo Community > Main TiVo Forums > TiVo Roamio DVRs
TiVo Community
Reply
Forum Jump
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 2 votes, 5.00 average.
Old 10-21-2013, 09:06 PM   #1
barrett14
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 49
Tivo is blaming V53 error on SNR ratio?

I have been reading that there isn't such a thing as too high a SNR...

I am getting V53 errors on random channels at random times. My signal strength is in the low 90's and my SNR is between 37-40. Tivo is telling me that the SNR is too high, and that I need to have Charter come out and fix it.

They have come out several times because of intermittent internet (I think caused by the same problem) and they never fix it.

I am not sure what to do here if Charter won't/can't fix it. Tivo will not accept my Roamio as a return since its been more than 30 days.

Also - I have tried using various attenuators and they will not bring the SNR down.

Please help!
barrett14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2013, 09:42 PM   #2
CrispyCritter
Purple Ribbon Wearer
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: North Potomac, MD
Posts: 3,637
A couple of thoughts:

1. SNR numbers aren't standard; they mean different things to different companies and nobody is sure exactly what the TiVo numbers mean.

2. If your attenuators haven't brought the SNR down, and you still have reasonable signals, then you haven't tried powerful enough attenuators.

3. I suspect the problem is not the attenuators, but some other problem with the signal, given you internet problems. Have you noticed more problems after rainy weather, for instance? (A bad outside coaxial cable could cause your issues.) It all comes down to Charter having to fix your signal.
__________________
CrispyCritter
TiVo Roamio:Felix TiVo Premiere:Bob TiVo XL4:Fred TiVo HDXL:Sharon TiVoHD:Susan
CrispyCritter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2013, 09:49 PM   #3
barrett14
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 49
The charter tech that came out last week said there was a signal problem that was affecting the entire building! He said that he would have to get a line tech to fix it but nothing has been done and the most frustrating part is, there is NO RECORD of what this guy told me last week. He told me that he would make notes on my account and escalate the issue but I guess he didn't do either.

I am really worried that whoever comes out tomorrow is going to tell me that nothing is wrong since its difficult for me to "prove" that there is a problem.

The reason that it is difficult to prove there is a problem is because the problems are all intermittent. It may be that when he comes out tomorrow, everything is working fine at that moment.
barrett14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2013, 11:47 AM   #4
hornmustang
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 31
I have similar issues from time to time. Every now and then I get a Channel Not Available error. Flipping channels or changing tuners usually gets this message to go away. Although sometimes it takes a few minutes for it to clear. I have Comcast with 98-100% signal and 39-41 db SNR. Using multiple splitters I was able to get my signal down to 90-94% and SNR of 35-37 dB, and I still had the problem. So I went back to my original configuration. I think there must be a software issue or issue with TIVO's tuner design.
hornmustang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2013, 12:57 PM   #5
barrett14
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by hornmustang View Post
I have similar issues from time to time. Every now and then I get a Channel Not Available error. Flipping channels or changing tuners usually gets this message to go away. Although sometimes it takes a few minutes for it to clear. I have Comcast with 98-100% signal and 39-41 db SNR. Using multiple splitters I was able to get my signal down to 90-94% and SNR of 35-37 dB, and I still had the problem. So I went back to my original configuration. I think there must be a software issue or issue with TIVO's tuner design.
My SNR is 37 and they say that is too high and is causing the problem... They're saying its a cable company issue. Sometimes resetting the Tivo box will fix it, and other times it won't.
barrett14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2013, 01:04 PM   #6
kbmb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: NH
Posts: 814
Quote:
Originally Posted by hornmustang View Post
I have similar issues from time to time. Every now and then I get a Channel Not Available error. Flipping channels or changing tuners usually gets this message to go away. Although sometimes it takes a few minutes for it to clear. I have Comcast with 98-100% signal and 39-41 db SNR. Using multiple splitters I was able to get my signal down to 90-94% and SNR of 35-37 dB, and I still had the problem. So I went back to my original configuration. I think there must be a software issue or issue with TIVO's tuner design.
Quote:
Originally Posted by barrett14 View Post
My SNR is 37 and they say that is too high and is causing the problem... They're saying its a cable company issue. Sometimes resetting the Tivo box will fix it, and other times it won't.
I have Comcast and my signals are all 100 and the SNR is 41-43dB....I have not yet had any of these Channel Not Available errors or V53 errors.

-Kevin
kbmb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2013, 01:31 PM   #7
barrett14
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbmb View Post
I have Comcast and my signals are all 100 and the SNR is 41-43dB....I have not yet had any of these Channel Not Available errors or V53 errors.

-Kevin
I have had signal issues with Charter that has been affecting my internet. I wonder if these same issues are causing the Tivo problems... and Tivo is mis diagnosing the problem with the SNR level...
barrett14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2013, 01:33 PM   #8
kbmb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: NH
Posts: 814
Quote:
Originally Posted by barrett14 View Post
I have had signal issues with Charter that has been affecting my internet. I wonder if these same issues are causing the Tivo problems... and Tivo is mis diagnosing the problem with the SNR level...
My (un)professional opinion.....yeah, it's probably whatever issue you are having with your connection in general. Tivo I think tends to blame that SNR first (like they are reading from a troubleshooting script).

I don't think you'll have a chance to solve anything until you fix the underlying issue with your connection.

-Kevin
kbmb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2013, 02:40 PM   #9
barrett14
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 49
I would like to say that my series 3 tivo was working fine through all of this. I told the Tivo tech that yesterday and he dismissed it saying that the Roamio has a different processor in it.... Apparently a processor that isn't working.
barrett14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2013, 02:42 PM   #10
kbmb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: NH
Posts: 814
Quote:
Originally Posted by barrett14 View Post
I would like to say that my series 3 tivo was working fine through all of this. I told the Tivo tech that yesterday and he dismissed it saying that the Roamio has a different processor in it.... Apparently a processor that isn't working.
Same here....TivoHD for 8 years with signals pegged at 100 and never had any issues. Yes, the Roamio is all new inside, but still.....something seems off.

I also have a Comcast DVR, and I took and plugged it into the same outlet as the Roamio. Where the Roamio reported 41-43dB for SNR, the Comcast box reported 37.5dB. Now I understand different boxes report things differently, but from that standpoint it's hard to tell the cable company that anything is wrong with the line when their box works fine.

Is Charter working to fix what issues you DO know you have on the line?

-Kevin
kbmb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2013, 02:45 PM   #11
barrett14
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 49
Complicated answer:

They shoed up last Thursday and he said there was a line issue affecting the whole building (I live in a residential tower). He said that he would escalate the issue and a line tech would be out 24-48 hours to fix it. I continued to have problems so I called Charter back and they looked up the notes from my service call.... Surprise! No notes indicating the problem and nothing was escalated. Another Charter tech is supposed to be here in 20 minutes to go through all of this again...

My worst nightmare is if this particular tech determines that there isn't anything wrong..
barrett14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2013, 02:46 PM   #12
kbmb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: NH
Posts: 814
Quote:
Originally Posted by barrett14 View Post
Complicated answer:

They shoed up last Thursday and he said there was a line issue affecting the whole building (I live in a residential tower). He said that he would escalate the issue and a line tech would be out 24-48 hours to fix it. I continued to have problems so I called Charter back and they looked up the notes from my service call.... Surprise! No notes indicating the problem and nothing was escalated. Another Charter tech is supposed to be here in 20 minutes to go through all of this again...

My worst nightmare is if this particular tech determines that there isn't anything wrong..
Good luck.....fingers crossed here!

-Kevin
kbmb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2013, 02:47 PM   #13
barrett14
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 49
Thanks! I'll let you know what he says.
barrett14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2013, 04:30 PM   #14
barrett14
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 49
He just left.

Like the previous tech, he said that he can see there is a problem based on my modem history. He said he isn't sure what is causing the V53 error with the Tivo, but said that Tivo is flat out wrong by saying that 37-40 SNR is too high... he said that the higher it is, the better. He said 35 would be on the low end, as Tivo suggests that its optimal.

He said he's going to have a line tech come out within 48 hours and check the line... A line tech has been out before but nothing improved. I really hope they fix this.
barrett14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2013, 04:33 PM   #15
lessd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: CT
Posts: 6,003
Quote:
Originally Posted by barrett14 View Post
Complicated answer:

They shoed up last Thursday and he said there was a line issue affecting the whole building (I live in a residential tower). He said that he would escalate the issue and a line tech would be out 24-48 hours to fix it. I continued to have problems so I called Charter back and they looked up the notes from my service call.... Surprise! No notes indicating the problem and nothing was escalated. Another Charter tech is supposed to be here in 20 minutes to go through all of this again...

My worst nightmare is if this particular tech determines that there isn't anything wrong..
With digital one can't see if the cable signal has any AC component on it, I had this problem once in old days and it showed up as a line going through my TV picture, the cable people installed a ground isolator at my home cable input and that fixed the problem.
__________________
Les Daniels

_____________________________________________
3 Roamio Plus upgraded to 2Tb & 3Tb, and 2 Minis,
lessd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2013, 05:06 PM   #16
kbmb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: NH
Posts: 814
Quote:
Originally Posted by barrett14 View Post
He just left.

Like the previous tech, he said that he can see there is a problem based on my modem history. He said he isn't sure what is causing the V53 error with the Tivo, but said that Tivo is flat out wrong by saying that 37-40 SNR is too high... he said that the higher it is, the better. He said 35 would be on the low end, as Tivo suggests that its optimal.

He said he's going to have a line tech come out within 48 hours and check the line... A line tech has been out before but nothing improved. I really hope they fix this.
Well hopefully that's some progress in that at least he saw something.

I think Tivo uses the SNR value in relation to overall signal level since they don't give users the ability to see the actual level.

-Kevin
kbmb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2013, 06:11 PM   #17
MrPlastic
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 19
My experience

I have a HD XL, a Premiere XL and a Roamio Pro. I have noticed V53 errors on the Roamio when I reboot or get an update and all tuners are on the same channel. It is easily remedied by changing the channel(s).
The Premiere is nearest the drop and gets Mid 70s channel strength with about 33 SNR, the HD XL is next closest and gets high eighties with 34 SNR. The Roamio is at the end of a 25 foot cable and get 95 signal strength and 36-40 SNR.
My provider is a smaller firm Grande in Texas.
I have some times gotten the V53 error on the other units but it has never been a major problem.
I used to have Time Warner and a tuning adapter. I went through 4-5 technicians telling me I had a strong signal which I did. But I had channel unavailable messages all the time. I was lucky Grande was available and they use Tivos as their DVR. They also don't use tuning adapters.
I would suspect your Provider rather than the Tivo. I agree with the Tech saying that 37 SNR is not too high.
MrPlastic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2013, 07:01 PM   #18
barrett14
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 49
MrPlastic - What do I do when Tivo is telling me anything over 35 is too high and the culprit, and then I have Charter saying that 37+ is great?
barrett14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2013, 09:13 PM   #19
CrispyCritter
Purple Ribbon Wearer
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: North Potomac, MD
Posts: 3,637
Quote:
Originally Posted by barrett14 View Post
MrPlastic - What do I do when Tivo is telling me anything over 35 is too high and the culprit, and then I have Charter saying that 37+ is great?
You ignore the disagreement until you have evidence. The Charter tech has no idea what 37 means for TiVo - it does not mean the same thing as it does on Charter equipment (this has been mentioned to you before).

Until you show that attenuation works, the Charter tech will be unconvinced by the TiVo tech. So far, you haven't experimented enough to say anything about attenuation.

As I've said, I suspect your problem is unrelated to attenuation and is related to your internet problems. Just have your Charter techs concentrate on that. But it wouldn't hurt for you to pursue attenuation tests on the side.
__________________
CrispyCritter
TiVo Roamio:Felix TiVo Premiere:Bob TiVo XL4:Fred TiVo HDXL:Sharon TiVoHD:Susan
CrispyCritter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2013, 10:24 PM   #20
danthefan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Raleigh, NC USA
Posts: 26
I'm having similar issues with TWC in Raleigh. Some channels periodically won't tune including ABC, NBC, HGTV, etc. If I change the channel and change it back it will usually tune the channel in.

TWC asked me to plug the cable directly into the TiVo and bypass the tuning adapter to see if the channel worked, but it didn't. The channel wouldn't come in until I changed the channel away and back. Of course the channel tunes in just fine on my TWC cable box.

TiVo also told me my signal strength was too high and that it would damage my TiVo. TWC is saying my signal strength is too low based on the numbers on the tuning adapter diagnostics. I'm not sure TiVo knows what they are talking about here.

I have a service call scheduled for this Saturday for TWC, not sure what they will do. Of course my TiVo Premiere XL worked just fine with the same tuning adapter, cable card and signal strength.

Daniel
danthefan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2013, 10:34 PM   #21
djjuice
Registered User
 
djjuice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 38
I'm using frontier fios in WA. I had a constant 41dB on my SNR range (solid 100% signal). I put in the POE Filter for MoCA along with a 20dB attenuator which dropped my levels to 90% signal and 35dB for SNR, so far I havent seen any Macro noise on my tv, i'd used to see them every so often even after getting the updated cable card. Hope this helps
djjuice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2013, 03:27 PM   #22
MrPlastic
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 19
Hi barrett14 I agree with CrispyCritter and just wanted to share my experience to give you a perspective. My experience shows me that SNR 37 is not too high but I may be wrong. The Roamio tuner is definitely different and that is why I shared about having one on a long run that is still getting a strong signal.
When I had troubles with my former provider the only solution I had was to switch providers. If I lived 2 blocks north of where I live I wouldn't be able to do that because my present provider doesn't offer service that far north. So I got lucky. But I think you would waste your time with complaining to Tivo.
Sorry not to have a solution just wanted to say that I am finding SNR 37+ doesn't give me the same problems you are experiencing.
MrPlastic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2013, 07:36 AM   #23
hershey4
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Red Sox Nation
Posts: 165
If I am getting error V53 on my Premiere-4, but not on my Mini (same channel, same moment in time), does that suggest anything?

It made me wonder about my whole-house Moca adapter, but not exactly sure how/why/if that plays into anything. I know that Moca runs at 1.15ghz and I only have a 1ghz splitter. I was told by Tivo tech support that is okay, but maybe not.

I'll go check out my SNRs. Is that by tuner?

I don't get the V53 often, but boy is it annoying. I have become so dependent on that live buffer, I can hardly watch tv without it.
hershey4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2013, 07:56 AM   #24
CrispyCritter
Purple Ribbon Wearer
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: North Potomac, MD
Posts: 3,637
Quote:
Originally Posted by hershey4 View Post
If I am getting error V53 on my Premiere-4, but not on my Mini (same channel, same moment in time), does that suggest anything?

It made me wonder about my whole-house Moca adapter, but not exactly sure how/why/if that plays into anything. I know that Moca runs at 1.15ghz and I only have a 1ghz splitter. I was told by Tivo tech support that is okay, but maybe not.

I'll go check out my SNRs. Is that by tuner?
Moca should be independent of an overpowered SNR causing V53, so that doesn't need to be worried about here. SNR would cause problems only within the tuners on your Premiere.

If you have overpowered signal problems, then having two tuners on the Premiere tuned to the same channel (one being sent to your Mini, one for viewing on the Premiere) could very easily cause more problems. Those problems could show up as V53 errors on either or both tuners.

SNR is by tuner within the DVR Diagnostics menu (found by a couple of paths; I tend to use the one System Information.)
__________________
CrispyCritter
TiVo Roamio:Felix TiVo Premiere:Bob TiVo XL4:Fred TiVo HDXL:Sharon TiVoHD:Susan
CrispyCritter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2013, 09:17 AM   #25
hershey4
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Red Sox Nation
Posts: 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrispyCritter View Post
...[]... having two tuners on the Premiere tuned to the same channel ...[]... could very easily cause more problems. Those problems could show up as V53 errors on either or both tuners. ...
That is interesting... its very possible - my viewing habits are strongly biased to ABC. I will check that out.

All my SNRs between 35-37. All my signal strengths were 88-91. Both stats are mostly fluctuating all the time... that was surprising (to me).

V53 channel and non-v53 channels seemed nearly identical. I would prefer all those screens in a nice spreadsheet side by side :-). Hard to compare in scroll-down fashion to state that precisely.
hershey4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2013, 09:26 AM   #26
palover
Registered User
 
palover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: NC
Posts: 33
I'm having 'channel not available' issues and it has nothing to do with Tivo since I'm getting it in the bedroom where we still have a Time Warner DVR. They sent a contractor tech out and he said he had plenty of previous work experience with cable and TW. He said that cable and other hardware behind boxes can go bad after just a few years, or that a lightning strike can affect the whole block. Groups of channels can drop out at random times, showing 'not available', and that's what we've experienced in the bedroom on multiple TW DRV's, while we've had no issues in the den, where the cabling has been updated and 'balanced'. Our cable run from the den to the bedroom likely needs to be replaced.

The tech said we need a TW tech and their fancy, expensive meter (which his co. doesn't have) to check our system. From what he said, they have the ability to find problems even if you're not getting any 'channel not available' issues at the time.

I know when we had the den area upgraded that there was no problem needed to spot the outdated cabling and splitters, since the problem I called them in for turned out to be my wireless router.
palover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2013, 09:32 AM   #27
duncan7
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 51
Another data point

I have Charter in Northeast Georgia and my dual-tuner Premiere started throwing V53 errors about two weeks ago. My new Roamio plus arrived yesterday; I'll set it up tonight and report if the problems get better or worse.

Surprisingly enough, I griped on twitter about the error coming up during MNF and posted a picture of a frozen Aaron Rodgers, then got an @mention from the @Charter account a day or so later. Could it be that that account is being resurrected?
duncan7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2013, 10:44 AM   #28
patrickthickey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 99
New(ish) Roamio, Comcast is the service provider.

I reported an evening of Error 53 activity to the forums.tivo.com. Two weeks later, I received a reply which struck me as being a bit of a wild guess.

That is, as I reported my S/N as being 39-40 as part of the "this is what was happening when" description. The first thing I was told was that "that's too high a S/N, it should be 36 and error 53 is related to the cable card".

I replied and explained the six tuners are all over the map with S/N and with a 6db attenuator slapped onto the line, a couple of the tuners dropped, and a couple stayed the same. I asked him how to specifically reduced S/N and received nothing in reply.

Comcast brought a new X1 DVR when they set up my service, not knowing I was a Tivo user. So he set things up and used the diagnostics on the X1 - which was fine as it's their damn network and if it works for their box, it should work on the Tivo. He tweaked my feed to be 37db, which he said was optimum for their X1, and it was reflected on the unit's diagnostic screen.

My Roamio, as I said, showed 39-40 on the same feed.

I think the disparity is causing some confusion and thrashing about.

I reseated my cable card, rebooted and haven't seen the issue again. I have left the 6db attenuator in place and will not remove it until I start seeing issues.

I would really like a formal statement from Tivo on this. I speculate the reported S/N is like an idiot light on the dash of your car....it indicates a pulse but little else.

Last edited by patrickthickey : 10-31-2013 at 10:54 AM.
patrickthickey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2013, 12:06 PM   #29
mburnno
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbmb View Post
My (un)professional opinion.....yeah, it's probably whatever issue you are having with your connection in general. Tivo I think tends to blame that SNR first (like they are reading from a troubleshooting script).

I don't think you'll have a chance to solve anything until you fix the underlying issue with your connection.

-Kevin
I been looking at these forums for a while now and I can honestly say that Tivo has dropped the ball on there newest DVR. I have been super critical about Tivo given this is their 5th generation box and should know by now everybody who calls up is not wrong or be to quick to dismiss something because it does not fit in to the steps for what could be wrong according to their troubleshooting script.

I spent over two weeks trying to convince their own Tech support that the problem resided on their end and not mine. It was only after I jumped through all of their hoops did they agree that Yes indeed it was on their side and I was missing part of the Tivo software. The thing that pissed me off was the fact I told them I have miss-matching settings on both of the Roamio's I owned and I was told I didn't know what I was talking about. So stick with your fight until you get your problem fixed.
mburnno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2013, 12:24 PM   #30
moyekj
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Mission Viejo, CA
Posts: 9,179
I call BS on the SNR threshold the CSRs so quickly jump on. My SNR readings are 42 or higher on all 6 tuners with signal strengths pegged at 100 most of the time and I haven't had tuning issues with my Roamio Pro.
__________________
Roamio Pro, Elite, Premiere
Cox - Motorola CableCards & TAs
Slingbox 350 via TiVo Mini & TiVo Stream for remote viewing

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
moyekj is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Forum Jump




Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Advertisements

TiVo Community
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Skins by: Relivo Media

(C) 2013 Magenium Solutions - All Rights Reserved. No information may be posted elsewhere without written permission.
TiVoŽ is a registered trademark of TiVo Inc. This site is not owned or operated by TiVo Inc.
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:12 AM.
OUR NETWORK: MyOpenRouter | TechLore | SansaCommunity | RoboCommunity | MediaSmart Home | Explore3DTV | Dijit Community | DVR Playground |