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Old 10-17-2013, 03:02 PM   #61
sbiller
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Originally Posted by jwbelcher View Post
Are you talking with Gary (BHNtechXpert)? I've reported the issue to him back in September, but it was dismissed as changing between SDV channels to quickly. Let me know if there a new thread that I can pile on to. I'd love to have an updated TA firmware.

Thanks,
James
Hi James,

Yes. I've been in contact by email and telephone with Gary (BHNTechXpert) and Margret at TiVo.

The good news is that Cisco and TiVo are actively working the problem for BHN.

I've provided Gary with a link to this thread so I suspect he might chime in as well.

~Sam
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Old 10-17-2013, 03:44 PM   #62
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Hi Guys,

Just an update we are engaged with Tivo and Cisco on this issue as well and great progress has been made. To be clear this is a Cisco issue. An ETA for fix I do not have at the moment but will update when I can.

Thanks,

Gary
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Old 10-17-2013, 04:48 PM   #63
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Thanks Gary. Appreciate for the added insight.

James
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Old 10-17-2013, 06:08 PM   #64
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Seems to me that the black screen problem experienced by certain (most if not all) TiVo users has been identified as a problem with Cisco tuning adapters.

So why can't we get the firmware update direct from Cisco?
There should be more than one way to apply the patch, other than, wait for the cable companies to push it out. Cable companies could care less about TiVo users and probably wish we would all just go away...
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Old 10-17-2013, 06:20 PM   #65
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Seems to me that the black screen problem experienced by certain (most if not all) TiVo users has been identified as a problem with Cisco tuning adapters.

So why can't we get the firmware update direct from Cisco?
There should be more than one way to apply the patch, other than, wait for the cable companies to push it out. Cable companies could care less about TiVo users and probably wish we would all just go away...
TA is a leased piece of cable operator equipment so all updates are pushed from them.
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Old 10-17-2013, 10:16 PM   #66
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Seems to me that the black screen problem experienced by certain (most if not all) TiVo users has been identified as a problem with Cisco tuning adapters.

So why can't we get the firmware update direct from Cisco?
There should be more than one way to apply the patch, other than, wait for the cable companies to push it out. Cable companies could care less about TiVo users and probably wish we would all just go away...
First of all I resent that statement. You are also our customer and your experience matters greatly to us whether you use TiVo or Silcon Dust or our box. We're providing the content..we could care less how you choose to watch it and this myth that we will do anything to keep you in our box is dated and simply just not true. We help people all the time get into alternative viewing solutions.

As for the update from Cisco they are working on it now. These things don't happen overnight in fact...it takes quite some time for them to fix then test and then release to the MSO's and then we have to test it to make sure it doesn't break anything else before finally pushing out to the devices. It isn't as simple as clicking our fingers and poof there it is.

While your frustration is understandable also understand we did not create this issue and it is not ours to fix...this belongs to Cisco and we are doing everything we can to make that happen along reasonable timelines. Your patience is appreciated....
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Old 10-18-2013, 02:22 AM   #67
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So how was Ceton so quick to fix this issue in their own firmware, yet everyone keeps implying its solely a Cisco TA issue? Sure, there may be a glitch with their TA, but as Ceton has proven already, there's more than one way to skin a cat and service their customers! They simply said its just the way the tuner/cablecard sends tuning messages to the TA and they have found a fix.
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Old 10-18-2013, 08:04 AM   #68
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So how was Ceton so quick to fix this issue in their own firmware, yet everyone keeps implying its solely a Cisco TA issue? Sure, there may be a glitch with their TA, but as Ceton has proven already, there's more than one way to skin a cat and service their customers! They simply said its just the way the tuner/cablecard sends tuning messages to the TA and they have found a fix.
Was it really fixed by the Ceton workaround? My Premiere XL4, for example, might have some TiVo workaround so installed as it was much more reliable than my Roamio on SDV channels. The 2-tuner Premiere's were even better.

I'm encouraged that Cisco has identified the problem and is working on a true fix that we should see on our TAs in the next few months.
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Old 10-18-2013, 10:19 AM   #69
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Was it really fixed by the Ceton workaround? My Premiere XL4, for example, might have some TiVo workaround so installed as it was much more reliable than my Roamio on SDV channels. The 2-tuner Premiere's were even better.

I'm encouraged that Cisco has identified the problem and is working on a true fix that we should see on our TAs in the next few months.
Couldn't say it better. Its possible that Ceton and SiliconDust just retry until they get a successful tune (brute force). There's more than one way to fix an issue, but its better for all the third-parties if Cisco fixes the bug rather than each vendor having to make the same workaround. With that said, its truly speculation since we don't have insight into the issues being fixed.
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Old 10-18-2013, 11:34 AM   #70
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So how was Ceton so quick to fix this issue in their own firmware, yet everyone keeps implying its solely a Cisco TA issue? Sure, there may be a glitch with their TA, but as Ceton has proven already, there's more than one way to skin a cat and service their customers! They simply said its just the way the tuner/cablecard sends tuning messages to the TA and they have found a fix.
I have nothing to indicate that it was fixed and Ceton has had their fair share of issues that mimic this issue so my hunch is "the fix" you claim they made had nothing to do with this specific issue. Each device will behave differently so you cannot make the assumption that (1) they were impacted to begin with (2) they have fixed anything related to this specific issue.
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Old 10-18-2013, 01:46 PM   #71
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but its better for all the third-parties if Cisco fixes the bug rather than each vendor having to make the same workaround. With that said, its truly speculation since we don't have insight into the issues being fixed.
And, in the end if the cable companies would updated their infrastructure, so a tuning adapter was not needed; we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
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Old 10-18-2013, 02:08 PM   #72
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And, in the end if the cable companies would updated their infrastructure, so a tuning adapter was not needed; we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
It has nothing to do with outdated infrastructure as your post implies...never did.
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Old 10-18-2013, 02:12 PM   #73
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And, in the end if the cable companies would updated their infrastructure, so a tuning adapter was not needed; we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
As far as BHN, in my area they ARE upgrading their infrastructure by pushing out all digital. By eliminating analog it should free up loads of bandwidth. I'm hoping that means the a reduction (if not removal) of SDV and need for the TA. My fingers crossed of course
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Old 10-18-2013, 05:01 PM   #74
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I have nothing to indicate that it was fixed and Ceton has had their fair share of issues that mimic this issue so my hunch is "the fix" you claim they made had nothing to do with this specific issue. Each device will behave differently so you cannot make the assumption that (1) they were impacted to begin with (2) they have fixed anything related to this specific issue.
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Was it really fixed by the Ceton workaround? My Premiere XL4, for example, might have some TiVo workaround so installed as it was much more reliable than my Roamio on SDV channels. The 2-tuner Premiere's were even better.

I'm encouraged that Cisco has identified the problem and is working on a true fix that we should see on our TAs in the next few months.
Quote:
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Couldn't say it better. Its possible that Ceton and SiliconDust just retry until they get a successful tune (brute force). There's more than one way to fix an issue, but its better for all the third-parties if Cisco fixes the bug rather than each vendor having to make the same workaround. With that said, its truly speculation since we don't have insight into the issues being fixed.
Look, No one is saying that Cisco shouldn't fix "their issue". What I am saying is that at least Ceton was proactive enough to do something as a workaround to get it working for THEIR customers, so why can't TiVo at least do the same thing, in the interim??? Who cares if for NOW it's working by "brute force", as long as it is WORKING???

At least for me, the Ceton now tunes 100% of the time after THEIR fix, so gloss over the issue all you want, but at least they did something about it and it is working. Wish I could say the same thing for my TiVo gear!
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Old 10-18-2013, 05:13 PM   #75
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It has nothing to do with outdated infrastructure as your post implies...never did.
If not, then why is there SDV?
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Old 10-18-2013, 06:40 PM   #76
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If not, then why is there SDV?
They don't necessarily go together. Cox here has very up to date infrastructure including an expansion to 1GHz a few years ago for all their nodes, and more recently broadcasting several channels in H.264 instead of mpeg2, and yet they still pretty aggressively employ SDV. Part of it likely is because they still are holding on to analog channels.
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Old 10-19-2013, 04:52 PM   #77
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I have the same issue with a Cisco TA in Los Angeles on Time Warner in the West SFV.

Really frustrating
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Old 10-21-2013, 11:38 AM   #78
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I'm sure this is coincidental and I'm sure the instant I press Post on this it'll stop but...has anyone had tuning issues after the 20.3.7.1a TiVo update last week? Since installing, I haven't had a single failure when tuning a channel over the course of 3 days. It almost seems like the TiVo is attempting to re-tune a failed channel at times though this is probably in my head.

I welcome the "You're insane" replies.
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Old 10-23-2013, 06:16 AM   #79
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I cannot seem to reproduce this issue either, although I have had two missed recordings due to no signal in the last couple of days.
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Old 10-23-2013, 06:21 AM   #80
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There does appear to be some sort of an update on the Roamio side to make this more reliable. My guess would be the same logic that's executing in the Premiere has been implemented. I know the Premiere still has the black screen issue and the occasional missed recording due to this so I'm still looking forward to the TA firmware fix that will hopefully eliminate this bug.
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Old 10-23-2013, 07:17 AM   #81
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Wish I could say the same thing for my TiVo gear!
How about you?
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Old 10-23-2013, 12:46 PM   #82
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How about you?
I haven't had any time whatsoever to play the last week or so. All I know is that any recordings I've watched have worked (knock on wood) and I haven't heard from the war dept on how all theirs have gone, but no news is good news!
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Old 10-24-2013, 05:50 PM   #83
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I received a new Roamio today (replaced original) and the new software update installed. Unfortunately for me the black screen issue immediately appeared while changing channels (up / down and selecting via guide). Time to upload logs...
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Old 10-24-2013, 06:39 PM   #84
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Just a reminder to Bright House Networks customers....feel free to contact me however there is no need to request to open a ticket. We are aware and have already engaged all relevant parties. At this point Cisco is driving this ship and we all wait for their fix to be released. Once released to each of the MSO's it will undergo additional testing (like any other product) and upon certification will be pushed to all of the impacted devices.
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Old 10-25-2013, 10:08 AM   #85
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How do you all check a missed recording? I record several programs that are re-runs and hard to tell if one failed. Do you know if failed recording get reported in the history list?
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Old 10-25-2013, 10:28 AM   #86
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How do you all check a missed recording? I record several programs that are re-runs and hard to tell if one failed. Do you know if failed recording get reported in the history list?
A failed recording in the History list usually shows as "Not recorded", and the detail on the right side of the screen will describe why (usually "No Signal").
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Old 10-25-2013, 02:19 PM   #87
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I thought it might, but wasn't sure since my history is just starting over.

Btw, I set a recording on a channel that I got a black screen tuning today. The next show was about 15 mins later so I thought it might be interested to see if it would fail to record the show. At the scheduled time, Tivo re-tuned the channel and is currently recording the episode.

Maybe they did add some additional logic on scheduled recordings for this issue?
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Old 10-25-2013, 09:53 PM   #88
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I haven't read anyone mention this in this thread, but I occasionally get "channel not available" when changing channels. Although I get video for about 2 secs before this alert shows up and screen goes black. If I press select, similar to when a SDV channel goes idle, it will re-tune in the channel successfully. Also, in the DVR diagnostics it shows the TA returned this "unavailable" status.

Does anyone else occasionally get this with a Cisco Tuning Adapter attached?
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Old 10-27-2013, 03:17 PM   #89
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I haven't had to resort to reboots yet. I found that tuning to what otherwise would be an analog channel without simulcasting, then back to the SDV channel will work. For example, if 1039 is black, tuning to 39 (or any channel below 100), then back to 1039, works most of the time.

BTW, the replacement Pro from TiVo arrived yesterday afternoon. I'll find the time to swap it out this weekend. I have very little confidence that a swap will fix the problem, but if that's what they want to try, fine with me.
Still Bad

I finally had enough available time to swap out my original Pro with the replacement on Saturday afternoon (Oct 26). As expected, the new Pro exhibits the same intermittent black-screen tuner failure as the old one.

I do notice some differences, however. The CableCard report screen doesn't show "Analog" for failed channels now. Some of the other fields are also blank too. Here's a short list of the values on a failed tune:

Freq -
Modulation -
Program Number -
Signal Strength -
Signal Lock No
CableCard Association None
ProgramLock No
Search Complete No
Decrypt Record Channels 5 (12345)
(notice that the failing tuner is listed now, it was before IIRC)

(Signal to noise ratio was 36-dB)

I also noticed that it won't let me manually record a black channel.

The Mini wouldn't associate until another call to TiVo this morning, but now that it's working, as before, it tunes perfectly. Further, I added a second Mini and it too tunes perfectly.

So while it looks like there have been some minor "changes", the basic failure to tune problem is still there.

Looking back at recent thread postings here, it seems that the thought is the Cisco TA is at fault. While there may very well be a problem with the TA, it is still unexplained to me why the slave Mini(s) work while the master Roamio doesn't. It uses the same TA after all.

Someone with access to the source code just needs to look and find the differences in how the Mini requests channel changes from the Roamio.
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Old 10-27-2013, 05:01 PM   #90
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.... Looking back at recent thread postings here, it seems that the thought is the Cisco TA is at fault. While there may very well be a problem with the TA, it is still unexplained to me why the slave Mini(s) work while the master Roamio doesn't. It uses the same TA after all. Someone with access to the source code just needs to look and find the differences in how the Mini requests channel changes from the Roamio.
Egg-Zackly! ;-)
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