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Old 10-15-2013, 08:26 AM   #31
hershey4
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I have reported my complaint to them and have been awaiting a response for near 24 hours. It will come in their typical slooooooooooooooow fashion.

@treaty is right. I (OP) wasn't initially thinking bug... I was initially thinking "maybe new and improved behavior - change of design" (just like new and improved sluggish navigation and other crap about Premiere I am coming to dislike). It is totally a new phenomena to me to embrace that Tivo is just another package of software complete with defects and performance issues and baggage. With my S2, Tivo used to just be a piece of hardware that did what I wanted. I just assumed Premiere would be the same reliability factor with more features. Boy, was I wrong!
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Old 10-15-2013, 10:18 AM   #32
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I would say that the advice to "just hit the record button" is being given by folks who don't appreciate how others watch TV. Even after 13 years of TiVo, my wife is still an inveterate channel flipper. So is she supposed to change channels, hit the record button, then 5 minutes later change channels again, then go to My Shows, and delete the 5 minutes of recording, then go back to live-tv and continue channel flipping? Don't be ridiculous.
No, I totally get it. If someone chooses not to learn a feature, or to not record and instead flip around back and forth with the buffer and potentially lose some content, that is up to them. I'm just indicating that hitting record, in this instance, addresses (and perhaps solves) the problem.

For your wife, I would suggest (its up to her) to hit record, and then either do something else or watch something else recorded, and then go back. She could potentially watch two interesting programs in the same space of time. If she chooses not to do this, no problem. Just indicating a potential solution.
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Old 10-15-2013, 10:48 AM   #33
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If live tv means that much to you and you choose to not prevent the problem, you have absolutely no good reason to complain when it happens.
wrong, i have every right to complain about buggy software, even if there's a workaround - users in this forum do it daily.

this is a huge bug, and contributes directly to unsatifactory performance. i shouldn't have to record every live show i watch, or view my to do list with each live channel change, just to avoid losing the live tv buffer.

countless times this has cost me the last 5 minutes of a show, and it's disappointing to have to go online, sometimes the next day, just to see the ending of a show - isn't that what tivo is for? other tivos and different mfg dvrs don't act this way, so it's not only a bug, it's a competitive issue, too.
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Old 10-15-2013, 11:20 AM   #34
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wrong, i have every right to complain about buggy software, even if there's a workaround - users in this forum do it daily.

this is a huge bug, and contributes directly to unsatifactory performance. i shouldn't have to record every live show i watch, or view my to do list with each live channel change, just to avoid losing the live tv buffer.

countless times this has cost me the last 5 minutes of a show, and it's disappointing to have to go online, sometimes the next day, just to see the ending of a show - isn't that what tivo is for? other tivos and different mfg dvrs don't act this way, so it's not only a bug, it's a competitive issue, too.
Your are right, you shouldn't have to record everything, but the thing is, unless you do, you will continue to lose the end of what you were watching and it will be your fault for not being proactive about a problem that you are well aware of.

and why on earth would you have to check the TDL after every channel change?
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Old 10-15-2013, 11:33 AM   #35
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I would say that the advice to "just hit the record button" is being given by folks who don't appreciate how others watch TV. Even after 13 years of TiVo, my wife is still an inveterate channel flipper. So is she supposed to change channels, hit the record button, then 5 minutes later change channels again, then go to My Shows, and delete the 5 minutes of recording, then go back to live-tv and continue channel flipping? Don't be ridiculous.
If she's not really watching anything because she's flipping channels, she isn't really losing anything when a recording starts. My advice to record what you watch wouldn't be for her because she clearly isn't investing any time in anything in order to need to see the end. And you also seem to not understand that all I'm doing is suggesting a way to get around the problem. if it doesn't work for you that's fine, but it does not negate the advice.


and you clearly have some convoluted thinking going on if you think it would be necessary to delete each recording as you go rather than deleting them at one time that is convenient.
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Old 10-15-2013, 12:31 PM   #36
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...and why on earth would you have to check the TDL after every channel change?
just another poor example of a workaround - you check your to do list to check for upcoming recordings on the same channel before you change live tv channels. if you forget upcoming recordings by the time you change channels again, you have to look again...
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Old 10-15-2013, 02:39 PM   #37
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just another poor example of a workaround - you check your to do list to check for upcoming recordings on the same channel before you change live tv channels. if you forget upcoming recordings by the time you change channels again, you have to look again...
Don't understand why you are still arguing against not losing what you want to watch.
I understand that this is problem that people want solved and TiVo is the only one that can solve it. In the meantime, you can prevent losing what you want to watch by simply recording it. If that is not practical, then don't do it, but to argue against it is just plain asinine.

It's like buying a car that later develops an air leak in a tire. You have to keep adding air until it get's fixed. Arguing that you shouldn't have to add air to prevent damage because it didn't always do it and that it's not convenient to do so will not change the fact that you have to do something.
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Old 10-15-2013, 02:43 PM   #38
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just another poor example of a workaround -
Do you have any better work-around options that have not been mentioned?
I'm sure everyone would be greatful to hear what you have to offer on the subject
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Old 10-15-2013, 02:48 PM   #39
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Don't understand why you are still arguing against not losing what you want to watch.
when did agreeing a software bug that causes live tv to be lost is a pain become "arguing"?
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If that is not practical, then don't do it, but to argue against it is just plain asinine.
where exactly did i argue against workarounds to become "asinine"?
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Old 10-15-2013, 04:56 PM   #40
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...
It's like buying a car that later develops an air leak in a tire. You have to keep adding air until it get's fixed. ....
until it gets fixed by who? Ford? not a good analogy. It is within my control to get the tire fixed. I have no control over what Tivo does. Sure, I can attempt to influence their decisions, but I cannot fix the problem no matter what I do.
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Old 10-15-2013, 05:01 PM   #41
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That is not the point in the analogy- taken to extreme they all fall apart. If you choose to not record as a way to get this done, you are free to do so. In the analogy, you are free to let your tire empty as well, but clearly an empty tire renders the car essentially useless, and this issue with Tivo is just an issue with a use case and does not render the Tivo useless. Good times.
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Old 10-16-2013, 08:52 AM   #42
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I don't think people have a problem with workarounds. I think it's the glib immature "deal with it" attitude expressed here. If someone has a problem with a bug in the software they have every right to complain until it gets fixed, no matter if there is a workaround or not. How long has this bug been out there? Maybe if more people started complaining instead of just sucking it up and dealing with it the bug would be fixed already.

Also, the fall update is coming soon and and one of the update items includes "bug fixes" sooooooo maybe?
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Old 10-16-2013, 09:00 AM   #43
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it's a feature not a bug!!!

Here's a bunch of BS from Tivo customer support. Their first reply was non-sensical but did call it a feature.

Thank you for responding to TiVo Customer Support. I apologize for that grammar error in the first email. That is not a bug in the software. We changed the way the cache would work and what you see now is the new way it is handled. We can only place a request to hopefully get that changed back to the old way.
At least this explanation is clear, but it is insane. Why would it work one way for one channel and work differently if I happen to be watching a different channel??? That is not a feature. That is BAD PROGRAMMING (software programming). Even if it was by choice (which I doubt), what advantage could it possibly bring to the user? There is NOTHING advantageous about the new behavior.

When was this BUG introduced into the software?
We had that added just recently in the software update around 20.1. We could not say why it was added, as there wasn't an official release why. Suffice to say many customers were not happy about it.
So much BS that just adds to the anti-Tivo sentiment. SInce when does a "feature" not get a release note and hype? Answer: when it is not a feature, it is a bug!!! A fundamental design change for performance enhancement feature is fine, but when it causes a regressive behavior in functionality it becomes a DEFECT!!!!!!! Jeez... software engineering 101
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Old 10-16-2013, 09:13 AM   #44
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Tivo has long not held out detailed release notes, and only the biggest issues are included when they are provided. That is not really any evidence that they believe its a feature. Don't take anything a CSR says too literally.
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Old 10-16-2013, 09:30 AM   #45
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Agreed, CSR's don't usually know much and will say whatever. This was first response fwiw:
Thank you for contacting TiVo Customer Support. I would be glad to help you with this feature request. We apologize for the confusion, but that was a bug on the new software, but instead a planned change. However, I would agree that having the buffer the way it was in the past was better, so I can place a request to hopefully get that changed back. Definitely keep us informed of any other features you would like to see (this kind of feedback is what allowed us to finally add the capacity meter again).
Sounds like I got the "feature request" department! Yup... fixing bugs is a feature I request --- LOL!
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Old 10-16-2013, 11:34 AM   #46
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I don't think people have a problem with workarounds. I think it's the glib immature "deal with it" attitude expressed here.
Sorry you feel that way. But I don't understand how saying that 'until it gets fixed, there is a work-around and not using it makes it your own fault for losing the end when a recording starts' could be construed as having a glib attitude.

People can complain about the issue to their heart's content, but this thread has not been complaints against the issue, it has been mostly complaints against the work-around which makes no sense.

Any time there is a problem in life, you have to deal with it and compromise to make do with what you have until the issue is either resolved or it becomes permanent. When it becomes permanent, the compromis is no longer a compromise, it becomes how the situation is handled. This Tivo issue is no different.
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Old 10-16-2013, 11:54 AM   #47
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Sorry you feel that way. But I don't understand how saying that 'until it gets fixed, there is a work-around and not using it makes it your own fault for losing the end when a recording starts' could be construed as having a glib attitude.
That's great, but that isn't how you started and continued on with this discussion. You made a flippant statement and then kept repeating. As a matter of fact if you stated it the way you claim you did in the first place I don't think this thread would have been turned into a "I shouldn't have to" argument.

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People can complain about the issue to their heart's content, but this thread has not been complaints against the issue, it has been mostly complaints against the work-around which makes no sense.
That differs from your previous statement...a lot. The majority of this thread is about the bug and the fact that customers shouldn't HAVE to use a work around to get the system they pay a lot of money for to work correctly.
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Old 10-16-2013, 12:16 PM   #48
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That differs from your previous statement...a lot. The majority of this thread is about the bug and the fact that customers shouldn't HAVE to use a work around to get the system they pay a lot of money for to work correctly.
Complaining that they shouldn't have to use a work-around is not complaining about the issue, it's complaining about the work-around.
According to what the csr responding to hershey4's complaint said, the system is working correctly.
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Old 10-16-2013, 01:08 PM   #49
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Complaining that they shouldn't have to use a work-around is not complaining about the issue, it's complaining about the work-around.
when the work around is unacceptable, that makes the bug that creates the need to use the workaround is also unacceptable.
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Old 10-16-2013, 01:24 PM   #50
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when the work around is unacceptable, that makes the bug that creates the need to use the workaround is also unacceptable.
What bug?

If you find the work-around unacceptable, don't use it. That makes it entirely your choice to lose the buffer when a recording starts, so the blame is on you too.
And if, as you say, the problem is unacceptable, why do you still have a Tivo Premiere when continued use is accepting it?
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Old 10-16-2013, 01:43 PM   #51
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What bug?
the bug that stops live tv shows unnecessarily while you're watching them, before they end.

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...why do you still have a Tivo Premiere when continued use is accepting it?
i'm sure tivo appreciates your endorsement.

performance, support, and overall experience always factor into future purchases. throwing new money at tivo's unresolved technical issues isn't always the right solution.
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Old 10-16-2013, 02:25 PM   #52
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the bug that stops live tv shows unnecessarily while you're watching them, before they end.
That's not a bug. That's how it works now.

Quote:
Thank you for responding to TiVo Customer Support. I apologize for that grammar error in the first email. That is not a bug in the software. We changed the way the cache would work and what you see now is the new way it is handled. We can only place a request to hopefully get that changed back to the old way.
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i'm sure tivo appreciates your endorsement.

performance, support, and overall experience always factor into future purchases. throwing new money at tivo's unresolved technical issues isn't always the right solution.
Calling you out on being a hypocrite for continued acceptance of what you say is unacceptable is not an endorsement of TiVo.
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Old 10-16-2013, 02:50 PM   #53
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That's not a bug. That's how it works now.
just because it works that way by design, doesn't make it less of a bug. and if it's a "feature" as you suggest, why not design it into all tivo models? i'm sure the reception would be overwhelming.
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...what you say is unacceptable is not an endorsement of TiVo.
i'm glad you agree with me that tivo doesn't appreciate your endorsement - thanks for seeing things from my perspective!
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Old 10-16-2013, 02:56 PM   #54
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No, it has nothing (directly) to do with tuners. You're watching a show in a live-tv buffer (behind) and that buffer becomes disassociated with a tuner. On Series 2 and 3 machines, you can continue to watch the show - the buffer stays around even without a tuner. On a Series 4 or 5 machine, the buffer disappears and you're kicked out of your show.

It's new with one of the series 4 software releases and I regard it as a bug.
Yep. We used to call that an 'orphaned' buffer. It would last until out exited for any reason (switched tuners, went into the menus, etc) or (IIRC) the scheduled recorded ended.

But as long as you didn't bump the wrong button you usually had pleny of time to finish watching the remaining bit of buffer. (It often seemed to confuse new users into thinking the TiVo had somehow gained 1 more tuner because it's 1 (or 2) tuners would be recording but they were still watching LiveTV - except they weren't; they were watching a buffered stream that was no longer having new material added)


This new(ish) bug hasn't bitten me much, but I did prefer the old behavior. (That said, it wouldn't be my top priority functionality to restore if given control of the TiVo development; the changes to wishlist handling/results bother me much more)
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Old 10-16-2013, 02:58 PM   #55
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scandia, you gotta be kidding me!!! I know you don't believe the CSR BS (and to edit the words of the quote is totally NON Netiquette!!!).

To the rest of us... I think scandia is getting a charge out of our reaction to his obstanance. I'm outta here!!!
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Old 10-16-2013, 03:02 PM   #56
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just because it works that way by design, doesn't make it less of a bug.

Working that way by design is the definition of not being a bug.

Quote:
and if it's a "feature" as you suggest, why not design it into all tivo models? i'm sure the reception would be overwhelming

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Old 10-16-2013, 03:12 PM   #57
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Working that way by design is the definition of not being a bug.
wrong, yet again. all bugs are created by design - bad design.

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...I think scandia is getting a charge out of our reaction to his obstanance. I'm outta here!!!
of course he is, still important to point out his hypocrisy (at least for a little while!).

thanks for reporting to tivo, maybe someone with a clue will read the thread and take action before writing off premiere software updates entirely. i reported my disappointment with scandia's new "feature", too.
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Old 10-16-2013, 04:28 PM   #58
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Old 10-16-2013, 05:10 PM   #59
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The obstinance belongs with those who cannot and will not accept what I'm saying:
There's a work-around, use it or don't and live with the consequences of either choice until such time that the problem no longer exists.

I don't understand how people are finding this so offensive as to keep arguing against it.
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Old 10-16-2013, 05:11 PM   #60
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wrong, yet again. all bugs are created by design - bad design.
Believe what you will.
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