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Old 10-14-2013, 11:18 AM   #1
Teeps
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NO GC for 8 Days since oM update? Running out of Guide Data Message too

Since TiVo pushed the .oM update, my S3 648250 OLED has not completed GC every other day to 3 days, as it did before the push. And this is with the tuning adapter turned off for 4 hours daily.

I started seeing the running out of guide data message on Saturday 12Oct13.
I left the tuning adapter off for 6 hours; GC still did not complete.
Last night I unplugged the tuning adapter at 10pm (PST) and finally GC completed this morning around 6am (PST).
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Old 10-14-2013, 11:58 AM   #2
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What is GC?
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Old 10-14-2013, 12:15 PM   #3
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Garbage Collection. The date last accomplished is given in the System Info pages. You get a program-data-will-run-out message if the GC date is a week or more old. Usually disconnecting the TA USB cable for a few hours will trigger a GC. This seems to be related to S03 errors and no-suggestions-with-TA issues in some unclear way. Other "cures" for some or all of these include disconnecting from the internet for some period of time and performing "Clear program information & To Do List".

Tivo is supposed to be working on a fix for the no-suggestions-with-TA problem but it's not known if it will be available for Series 3 models.
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Old 10-14-2013, 01:06 PM   #4
sfhub
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teeps View Post
Since TiVo pushed the .oM update, my S3 648250 OLED has not completed GC every other day to 3 days, as it did before the push. And this is with the tuning adapter turned off for 4 hours daily.

I started seeing the running out of guide data message on Saturday 12Oct13.
I left the tuning adapter off for 6 hours; GC still did not complete.
Last night I unplugged the tuning adapter at 10pm (PST) and finally GC completed this morning around 6am (PST).
I am not sure what is "normal" but both my OLED S3s perform GC every day. This is on 11.0m. This is with digital cable but w/o tuning adapter.

I did have GC issues when my guide data was 2 weeks out of date because I had pulled the drive to make repairs. I was able to resolve those as well as indexing never completing by rechoosing the video provider.

Settings->Channels->Channel List
Press Enter and choose the same video provider as existing.

From my experience it resets a lot of these types of issues with indexing, caching, and GC. The advantage over CPI&TDL is it doesn't cause you to lose your season passes.
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Old 10-14-2013, 02:40 PM   #5
Teeps
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfhub View Post
I am not sure what is "normal" but both my OLED S3s perform GC every day.
TiVo did not have the GC problem before the cussed tuning adapter was introduced to my system.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfhub View Post
This is on 11.0m. This is with digital cable but w/o tuning adapter.
Well, there you go... no cussed tuning adapter.

Tangent:
TiVo support blames GC failure on unauthorized HDDs of larger than standard size.
Which I say is BS, because the GC problem presented itself when TiVo was in stock configuration.
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Old 10-14-2013, 03:44 PM   #6
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I have a Tivo HD (model 652) with a four year old 1 TB internal expansion HDD. I use a TA. I never had a GC problem until April this year, which was before I got the 11.0m update. Since then I've had one more incident, also solved by disconnecting the TA USB for less than 3 hours. Otherwise the time between GC's varies widely from 2 to 5 days.

Just another "benefit" of the TA.

I also suspect GC failure can somehow be related to occasional slow response from the TiVo servers while making service connections.
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Last edited by dlfl : 10-14-2013 at 03:51 PM.
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Old 10-14-2013, 09:06 PM   #7
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I wonder why it does GC less often with TA. It would seem you'd have more garbage to collect (or at best the same) as not having a TA. If it is more garbage, it would be logical to GC more often rather than less.

Perhaps that is part of the problem. Having too much garbage to collect that it gets interrupted eventually by something else.

I guess it is potentially possible that upgraded drives are indirectly part of the issue. Not the drives themselves, but the extra recordings you can save off and the additional season passes you may accumulate causing more stuff to be indexed and more garbage to collect.

I went back deleted old unused season passes and it does seem like certain operations dealing with season passes have become quicker. I would sometimes get the hourglass for a couple of minutes before, but now it is normally at worst, 10 seconds.
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Old 10-16-2013, 01:10 PM   #8
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Even with the m update, my HD still updates every day or two with the TA off for 4 hours every night.

Knock on wood.
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Old 10-16-2013, 02:06 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfhub View Post
I wonder why it does GC less often with TA. It would seem you'd have more garbage to collect (or at best the same) as not having a TA. If it is more garbage, it would be logical to GC more often rather than less.
The risk factors for the problem seem to be:
1) Upgraded drive.
2) Network connectivity
3) Tuning Adapter.

Measurements posted elsewhere shows that TAs make GC run much slower. Guide updates over the network seem to restart GC from the beginning. And larger discs seem to require more GC.

So the picture is this. Guide data is updated. GC starts, runs slowly because of the TA, hasn't finished when the next update occurs, GC restarts, repeat until you get the "Guide Data" warning.

There seem to be two effective solutions. One is to deny your TiVo network access for 3 or 4 days at a time. You can do this by unplugging the network cable or adding access restrictions in your router.

The other is to turn off the TA for 4 hours or so at least once a week. Some people pull the USB plug, some the power plug, some use a lamp timer to do it automatically.

-- Doug
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Old 10-16-2013, 02:37 PM   #10
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Ah, so what is suspected to be happening is not that GC is running fewer times, rather it is completing less often.
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Old 10-16-2013, 02:43 PM   #11
sfhub
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougJohnson View Post
So the picture is this. Guide data is updated. GC starts, runs slowly because of the TA, hasn't finished when the next update occurs, GC restarts, repeat until you get the "Guide Data" warning.
BTW are you talking about
  1. GC
  2. Indexing
  3. Guide View Cache
My experience is Guide View Cache begins running soon after guide view data is downloaded but GC and Indexing seem to be on their own schedule.

Also Guide View Cache, in my experience is the one that will cause the Guide Data warning (as well as season passes not recording), but that might be because I've never experienced GC or Indexing problems and I might see similar issues if I did.

I know I've had GC, indexing, and Guide View Cache all reset to very old dates and the unit would only playback recorded shows. Program Guide would show data, but season passes wouldn't use it. Once Guide View Cache was complete, everything started working fine again (even though GC and Indexing were still stuck in the past) I concluded that Guide View Cache was the most important of the processes.
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Old 10-16-2013, 03:36 PM   #12
Teeps
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WO312 View Post
Even with the m update, my HD still updates every day or two with the TA off for 4 hours every night.

Knock on wood.
As did mine up until last week; then it got constipated, and required longer down time for the tuning adapter.
So far this week it has returned to the every other day routine.
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