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Old 10-11-2013, 09:08 PM   #1
hershey4
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Losing live TV when scheduled show starts

I'm a bit confused with having multiple tuners (just went from S2 to Premier 4).

Say I am watching live TV channel 5 using the delay buffer and watching a show that started at 8:30. I have something scheduled for 9:00 also on channel 5. When it is 9:00, it jumps right to real time and I am watching the recording and lose my buffer of my 8:30 show completely! That seems wrong. What's the point of having all those tuners!?!? Is that buffer around somewhere?

This is not how my S2 worked. I could continue my 8:30 show just fine until I ran into the 9:00 start. Seems like a step backwards with this particular scenario.

I don't get this behavior if I am watching a different channel at 8:30. Then it just uses another tuner to switch to channel 5 and I am all set.

Maybe there is some preference I can set???
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Old 10-11-2013, 09:18 PM   #2
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It's a dvr, if you want to watch something, record it.
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Old 10-12-2013, 07:45 AM   #3
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That does seem different than what my Tivo HD does .... curious. I think my TiVo saves the buffer I'm watching combined with the new recording. When playing back the recording it just starts at the right place (beginning of recorded show) but I see the previous buffer recording at the front (left end) of the time line. That's not real clean and apparently not as efficient since it's saving that buffer fragment that isn't part of the recording. Apparently your model simply will not allow either (1) two tuners tuned to the same channel or (2) the buffer you were watching to be maintained as a "temporary" recording so you can finish watching it. I like the way my Tivo does it pretty well.
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Old 10-12-2013, 08:18 AM   #4
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Weird, but hitting record gets it done.
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Old 10-12-2013, 10:34 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by dlfl View Post
That does seem different than what my Tivo HD does .... curious.
The disappearing buffer when a recording starts is a known issue and not anything new.
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Old 10-12-2013, 10:51 AM   #6
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Weird, but hitting record gets it done.
True, but I shouldn't have to hit record though. That presumes that I am aware of the fact that a scheduled show is coming up on the same channel. The beauty of Tivo with 4 tuners is that one doesn't have to remember what is setup to record - keeps my brain out of the loop. :-)

And even if I accepted that, why should I have to record everything and go back to My shows. Sometimes it is something timely like the news or chronicle and there is absolutely no point to keeping it and "managing" it via MyShows. I just want to watch it now. I like to watch LiveTv for my casual channel surfing and news and use MyShows for managing all my TV series. Sometimes while channel surfing, something is interesting and I want to continue watching it. Especially if I hit pause and take a detour to generate a buffer for commercial-skipping. Everybody uses Tivo differently and it should accomodate all these Use Cases the same.

Is this "known issue" a Premiere thing or all of Tivo? I searched forums first and didn't come up with relevant hits.

p.s. there is no problem with the recorded show's beginning point.
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Old 10-12-2013, 12:24 PM   #7
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T
Is this "known issue" a Premiere thing or all of Tivo? I searched forums first and didn't come up with relevant hits.
Well, dlfl said the behavior is different than what his HD does, so if his HD doesn't do it, then it's not something that affects all of Tivo.
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Old 10-12-2013, 12:35 PM   #8
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The issue is brought up in the 20.3.1 update thread as a bug that was not fixed, so it's been around for a while.
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Old 10-13-2013, 05:28 PM   #9
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The issue is brought up in the 20.3.1 update thread as a bug that was not fixed, so it's been around for a while.
You make it sound that its not a big deal because its not new. It's new to me and it irritates me greatly! I'm going to contact Tivo on it to try to get some action. (yeah, I know... don't hold my breath...)
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Old 10-13-2013, 05:59 PM   #10
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You make it sound that its not a big deal because its not new. It's new to me and it irritates me greatly! I'm going to contact Tivo on it to try to get some action. (yeah, I know... don't hold my breath...)
How would the TiVo know what ch you are watching, what if all ch were somewhere in there buffer ? what one would TiVo change to start a recording ? All ch have a buffer, do you want the TiVo to check how far back into each buffer each ch is, than use the ch that is the closes to real time ? This logic could get complicated with 6 tuners.
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Old 10-13-2013, 06:58 PM   #11
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How would the TiVo know what ch you are watching, what if all ch were somewhere in there buffer ? what one would TiVo change to start a recording ? All ch have a buffer, do you want the TiVo to check how far back into each buffer each ch is, than use the ch that is the closes to real time ? This logic could get complicated with 6 tuners.
No, it has nothing (directly) to do with tuners. You're watching a show in a live-tv buffer (behind) and that buffer becomes disassociated with a tuner. On Series 2 and 3 machines, you can continue to watch the show - the buffer stays around even without a tuner. On a Series 4 or 5 machine, the buffer disappears and you're kicked out of your show.

It's new with one of the series 4 software releases and I regard it as a bug.
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Old 10-13-2013, 07:56 PM   #12
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How would the TiVo know what ch you are watching,
That should be basic information... It ought to "know". That's probably the bug -- that the information is not being saved at each channel change so that the tuner request logic fails.
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Old 10-13-2013, 08:07 PM   #13
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How would the TiVo know what ch you are watching, .
It should know which tuner is currently being sent to the display.

The TiVo subsequently *should choose a vacant tuner to record anything set to be recorded that is not on that channel. Should all other tuners be actively recording other features, then the TiVo should throw up a warning page with options to cancel the upcoming recording**, just like the single tuner series 2 did.


*This is hypothetical, not actual recent model TiVo behavior

** Or Choose which recording to cancel to allow the upcoming recording to proceed.
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Old 10-13-2013, 10:26 PM   #14
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You make it sound that its not a big deal because its not new. It's new to me and it irritates me greatly! I'm going to contact Tivo on it to try to get some action. (yeah, I know... don't hold my breath...)
It's a dvr, if you want to watch something, record it.
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Old 10-14-2013, 06:17 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by scandia101 View Post
It's a dvr, if you want to watch something, record it.
+1

ANYTHING that I watch, I hit the record button. I did this with my four tuner TiVos as well as my two tuner TiVos over the last decade. It has always avoided issues like the OP mentioned.

Even just a misplaced button press and I can lose the buffer of what is being watched if it is not being recorded. Or I could start doing something else, and when I come back the buffer is long gone. If I hit record there are no issues. I don't have to watch everything I record, and the TiVo will also automatically delete shows, or you can manually delete them if you want. But hitting record when watching something avoids alot of issues.
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Old 10-14-2013, 06:56 AM   #16
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It's a dvr, if you want to watch something, record it.
-1

sorry, I disagree completely. LiveTV is LiveTV period.
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Old 10-14-2013, 10:01 AM   #17
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It should know which tuner is currently being sent to the display.

The TiVo subsequently *should choose a vacant tuner to record anything set to be recorded that is not on that channel. Should all other tuners be actively recording other features, then the TiVo should throw up a warning page with options to cancel the upcoming recording**, just like the single tuner series 2 did.


*This is hypothetical, not actual recent model TiVo behavior

** Or Choose which recording to cancel to allow the upcoming recording to proceed.
I don't think TiVo spent any time on the extra logic about what tuner you are watching, if the ch is going to change you get a warning watching or not, but no warning if only the buffer is going away, as stated on this Thread, if the program on the buffer is important to the watcher, just record it.
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Old 10-14-2013, 10:30 AM   #18
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It's a dvr, if you want to watch something, record it.
-1

You keep repeating this as if it is Holy Writ. But just pushing the Record button is not enough. My XL4 will still jump out of the item I am recording and into the start of the scheduled recording. To avoid this behavior, I have to start recording the show, leave the show, and restart watching from My Shows. That is hardly the convenience I expect from a Tivo.
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Old 10-14-2013, 02:25 PM   #19
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I may keep saying
It's a dvr, if you want to watch something, record it.
but do you have any other options to prevent losing what you are watching?
No?
I didn't think so.
It's a dvr, if you want to watch something, record it.

Provided that you don't have suggestions turned on, you could also take a few seconds to check the to do list to see if anything is scheduled to record while you'll be watching live tv. But then again, if people are too lazy to press the red button, why would they go through the hassle of checking the TDL?

I don't understand whining about losing live tv to a recording when it is very simple to avoid the problem.

It's a dvr, if you want to watch something, record it.
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Old 10-14-2013, 03:58 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by scandia101 View Post
I may keep saying
It's a dvr, if you want to watch something, record it.
but do you have any other options to prevent losing what you are watching?
No?
I didn't think so.
It's a dvr, if you want to watch something, record it.

Provided that you don't have suggestions turned on, you could also take a few seconds to check the to do list to see if anything is scheduled to record while you'll be watching live tv. But then again, if people are too lazy to press the red button, why would they go through the hassle of checking the TDL?

I don't understand whining about losing live tv to a recording when it is very simple to avoid the problem.

It's a dvr, if you want to watch something, record it.
I disagree very strongly with this.

The activity is not using a DVR, it is watching TV. The TiVo motto is TV Your Way.

All you people saying "record everything" have a different view than TiVo itself. If TiVo thought that was the only way to watch TV, then it would set up a named recording for whatever is being watched live. TiVo knows better than that.

If you run across something interesting live, start watching, pause for a phone call, resume watching, and then miss the last 5 minutes of your movie because TiVo, without any warning, switches you to current time, you have every right to be very upset at TiVo. The 5 minutes you want to watch are stored in a buffer on the TiVo; there is no reason, besides this bug, that you should be denied the opportunity to watch them. You have always been able to watch this 5 minutes on Series 1, 2, and 3 TiVos, and for a good part of Series 4 history on Premieres as well. It's only in this past year that this bug has crept in.

Recording everything is a perfectly fine way to watch TV, but there are other ways that large numbers of TiVo owners watch TV. TiVo has always supported those ways, and for you folks to claim TiVo shouldn't is just wrong.
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Old 10-14-2013, 04:45 PM   #21
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I disagree very strongly with this.
Why?
Your statement below does not disagree with anything I've said.

Quote:
If you run across something interesting live, start watching, pause for a phone call, resume watching, and then miss the last 5 minutes of your movie because TiVo, without any warning, switches you to current time, you have every right to be very upset at TiVo. The 5 minutes you want to watch are stored in a buffer on the TiVo; there is no reason, besides this bug, that you should be denied the opportunity to watch them. You have always been able to watch this 5 minutes on Series 1, 2, and 3 TiVos, and for a good part of Series 4 history on Premieres as well. It's only in this past year that this bug has crept in.

Recording everything is a perfectly fine way to watch TV, but there are other ways that large numbers of TiVo owners watch TV. TiVo has always supported those ways, and for you folks to claim TiVo shouldn't is just wrong.
You seem to believe that I'm saying that a Premiere Tivo should behave the way it does. I am not. What I'm saying is that there is a problem and you can easily avoid it. If you know this can happen and you continue to lose live tv to recordings, it's your own fault for not recording what you were watching.

TiVo, TV your way does not mean that a Tivo is required to do what you want, it has only ever meant within the scope of what a Tivo does. If your Premiere loses live tv for a recording, TV your way is not an option.

So again, why do you disagree with methods to get around this problem?

It's a dvr, if you want to watch something, record it.
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Old 10-14-2013, 04:52 PM   #22
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Look- if you know the behavior, then you know how to work the scenario. RECORD.

Even if working as the OP had hoped, a simple button push could dump the buffer. RECORDING would prevent that it totality.

When done, then delete. Plus, you can go to the park, walk the dog, whatever, and miss ALL of the commercials. Watch two games in succession without flipping around in about, 30 minutes a game.
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Old 10-14-2013, 07:35 PM   #23
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That's why they make chocolate vanilla and strawberry ice cream. everybody likes different flavors. Why should someone be forced to have chocolate if they want vanilla. It is about having control and having choices. For mega bucks I paid for this hunk of electronics, I should be able to do whatever ***I*** want with it (within the design specifications). That's the point. You think your way is fine, but clearly its good for YOU, not the world.
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Old 10-14-2013, 07:36 PM   #24
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Lets agree to disagree and move on to more interesting threads...
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Old 10-14-2013, 08:10 PM   #25
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That's why they make chocolate vanilla and strawberry ice cream. everybody likes different flavors. Why should someone be forced to have chocolate if they want vanilla. It is about having control and having choices. For mega bucks I paid for this hunk of electronics, I should be able to do whatever ***I*** want with it (within the design specifications). That's the point. You think your way is fine, but clearly its good for YOU, not the world.
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Lets agree to disagree and move on to more interesting threads...
You still clearly do not understand that I don't disagree on how the Tivo should work.
and
"It's a dvr, if you want to watch something, record it." is not my way as you seem to believe, it as a means to prevent the problem

If live tv means that much to you and you choose to not prevent the problem, you have absolutely no good reason to complain when it happens.
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Old 10-14-2013, 10:49 PM   #26
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If live tv means that much to you and you choose to not prevent the problem, you have absolutely no good reason to complain when it happens.
That's an unbelievably arrogant statement to make.

So you would say:
1. If you only get 4 tuners working on your 6 tuner Roamio, and you don't change your Roamio to only use 4 tuners, then you have absolutely no good reason to complain?
2. If your TiVo reboots because because you have a green switch, and you continue to use the green switch, then you have absolutely no good reason to complain?
3. If you were using 1080p with Netflix, and you didn't change it to 1080i, then you had absolutely no good reason to complain? (This has been fixed).

This is a bug; it is not how TiVo has deliberately designed their system. The original poster has every right to complain about it. For you to say he doesn't is just mind-boggling to me.
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Old 10-14-2013, 10:50 PM   #27
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Look- if you know the behavior, then you know how to work the scenario. RECORD.

Even if working as the OP had hoped, a simple button push could dump the buffer. RECORDING would prevent that it totality.

When done, then delete. Plus, you can go to the park, walk the dog, whatever, and miss ALL of the commercials. Watch two games in succession without flipping around in about, 30 minutes a game.
I would say that the advice to "just hit the record button" is being given by folks who don't appreciate how others watch TV. Even after 13 years of TiVo, my wife is still an inveterate channel flipper. So is she supposed to change channels, hit the record button, then 5 minutes later change channels again, then go to My Shows, and delete the 5 minutes of recording, then go back to live-tv and continue channel flipping? Don't be ridiculous.
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Old 10-15-2013, 01:06 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by scandia101 View Post
I may keep saying
It's a dvr, if you want to watch something, record it.
but do you have any other options to prevent losing what you are watching?
No?
I didn't think so.
This is ridiculous. Anyone that has used previous versions of TiVo knows that this live tv buffer disappearing when scheduled recording begins on the same channel issue is a bug in the current Premier software version. The "other option" is for TiVo to fix the bug and make this work the way that it should... The way it's always worked in the past. The appropriate answer to the OP was just "it's a bug and we all wish TiVo would fix it".
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Old 10-15-2013, 01:46 AM   #29
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The appropriate answer to the OP was just "it's a bug and we all wish TiVo would fix it".
Some would think that offering a viable method to work around the shortfall would be more appropriate than simply telling the Op that the problem they see is a problem especially when the OP did ask if there was something they could do about it.
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Old 10-15-2013, 06:04 AM   #30
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I have a question for all the people complaining about this bug.

Are you spending as much time complaining to TiVo about this bug as you are arguing about it in this thread?

I hope so, because you're not doing anything but wasting your time here.
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