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Old 10-10-2013, 10:40 PM   #31
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There remains an *extremely* high likelihood that they used his original performance track, one he released on the internet as a karaoke version. There, Glee was definitely in the wrong, as they would have needed to obtain a synchronization license from JoCo, which they did not. However, he opted not to pursue that (rightfully judging 20th's lawyers to be bigger and badder than his lawyers).
Back in January, in his blog post about the situation, his last statement was, "I will have a lot more to say about this situation soon, most likely Monday", and that was the last that he's said publicly on the subject, as far as I can tell.

Based upon that, I have a suspicion that someone on the Glee side made some kind of settlement with him, and that included an NDA and a gag order.
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Old 10-10-2013, 11:53 PM   #32
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No

Our local news radio host sort of ripped the latest Glee episode that's dedicated to the drug addict actor.


He called it the show honoring a "junky". He went on to say it was somewhat offensive that they are honoring a junky for an hour as opposed to honoring folks who died honorably etc etc.

I can see his point...they seem to be glorifying this kid who's been on drugs for some time, hasn't really done much other than this one flash in the pan show and now he gets a nationwide audience send off. All for being a drug addict.
Really?

Michael Jackson was a prescription junkie and (likely) a pedophile. Millions mourned.

Elvis was a fat, slobbering mess at the time of his death. Millions mourned. Continues to be revered to this day.

Whitney Houston was a crackhead.

Princess Diana was an adulterer who chose to drive with a drunk and drugged driver. Entire nations mourned. Got a worldwide "send-off"

John Lennon had a lot of demons that were well-documented, especially to those who followed the Beatles.

Ronald Reagan was no friend to early AIDS sufferers when he refused to acknowledge that the disease even existed. Talk about a "send-off". News outlets covered it for weeks.

The point is that a young man died way too soon. It's sad. The dangerous thing is that he appeared, at least on the surface, to seemingly have it all. A gig on a popular TV show, good looks, a beautiful and talented girlfriend....who knows what he dealt with growing up. He was a friend and co-worker to many of Glee's cast members. I thought the writers managed to honor him in a touching and poignant way without the whole thing feeling exploitative.
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Old 10-11-2013, 12:51 AM   #33
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I still watch it. But I fast forward over anything with Becky or Rachel and anything with Kurt and Blaine together, about 80% of anything with Sue, maybe 65% of anything with Kurt, almost anything with Mercedes or Brittany or Quinn singing, and about 30% of most of the group singing. So it's generally a pretty quick watch.

I'm caught up now to the Finn-dies episode, which I'll watch sometime over the weekend. And I fully expect to be completely disgusted by whatever story they've chose to surround it that I'll probably be deleting the season pass soon, though.

The shows biggest mistake, and probably the major reason for its significant decline the last few years is to not have graduated the seniors and been done with them, but to just further spread the show too thinly and in ways that require too much stretching of storylines to keep the original characters in play.
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Old 10-11-2013, 07:08 AM   #34
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I still watch on a weekly basis. Last year I fell behind but eventually caught up. This year, I wanted to watch last night's episode. I have to admit there were times in the episode I felt a little dust in my eye.

Since this isn't a spoiler or episode thread, I will spoiler my comments about this episode:
Spoiler:
I thought this was a very well done episode. I liked that they focused on original characters and their reaction to Finn's/Corey's death. Everyone's reaction felt "right". The songs were a good choice, especially Seasons of Love. This is one of my all time favorite Broadway Songs and I thought the kids did a great job with it.

The scene with Kurt, Burt, and Carol was excellent. You have to wonder how much of their emotion was a reaction to Corey's death versus just acting. That was one of the best scenes in Glee in a long time.

Loved Santana finally getting back at Sue. She was able to final get out all the aggression she had built up in High School. We got to see the "Good" Sue again later as she admitted her weakness. But, I doubt this will last.

I am disappointed that neither Quinn nor Brittney were there. Since all the other originals were there (even Mike Chang, who didn't have a line in the whole episode), I have to believe this was a decision by the actresses. But, if I were in their place, I think I would make EVERY effort to take a week in my life to be part of the episode.

Did we really need another "Tina is selfish" scene? Sorry, not needed.


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Originally Posted by dswallow View Post
The shows biggest mistake, and probably the major reason for its significant decline the last few years is to not have graduated the seniors and been done with them, but to just further spread the show too thinly and in ways that require too much stretching of storylines to keep the original characters in play.
I agree 100% on this. I wish the Producers would have gone ahead with their original plan of spinning off Kurt & Rachel in New York. For the past 1 1/2 season the show has been off track trying to split show between two locations (and hap hazard attempts to tie the two groups together.)
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Old 10-11-2013, 07:35 AM   #35
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Since this isn't a spoiler or episode thread, I will spoiler my comments about this episode:
Spoiler:
I am disappointed that neither Quinn nor Brittney were there. Since all the other originals were there (even Mike Chang, who didn't have a line in the whole episode), I have to believe this was a decision by the actresses. But, if I were in their place, I think I would make EVERY effort to take a week in my life to be part of the episode.
Spoiler:
At the time of filming, Heather Morris (Brittany) was 8 months pregnant, so she was unavailable for that reason.

Dianna Agron (Quinn) was unavailable for an undefined scheduling conflict.

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Old 10-11-2013, 07:40 AM   #36
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Really?

Michael Jackson was a prescription junkie and (likely) a pedophile. Millions mourned.

Elvis was a fat, slobbering mess at the time of his death. Millions mourned. Continues to be revered to this day.

Whitney Houston was a crackhead.

Princess Diana was an adulterer who chose to drive with a drunk and drugged driver. Entire nations mourned. Got a worldwide "send-off"

John Lennon had a lot of demons that were well-documented, especially to those who followed the Beatles.

Ronald Reagan was no friend to early AIDS sufferers when he refused to acknowledge that the disease even existed. Talk about a "send-off". News outlets covered it for weeks.

The point is that a young man died way too soon. It's sad. The dangerous thing is that he appeared, at least on the surface, to seemingly have it all. A gig on a popular TV show, good looks, a beautiful and talented girlfriend....who knows what he dealt with growing up. He was a friend and co-worker to many of Glee's cast members. I thought the writers managed to honor him in a touching and poignant way without the whole thing feeling exploitative.

Difference being that all those folks were "legends" in their roles in society...this kid, not so much.
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Old 10-11-2013, 08:21 AM   #37
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I bailed after season 1, and tried to come back this season. I couldn't make it through the episodes. I will watch Finn's episode though, and then no more.
Me, too. Finn was the character that sold me on the show, in the pilot. And without him, the show feels empty. So, I'm done.

The farewell show was brutal. Glad I watched, but man.
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Old 10-11-2013, 08:24 AM   #38
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No Our local news radio host sort of ripped the latest Glee episode that's dedicated to the drug addict actor. He called it the show honoring a "junky". He went on to say it was somewhat offensive that they are honoring a junky for an hour as opposed to honoring folks who died honorably etc etc. I can see his point...they seem to be glorifying this kid who's been on drugs for some time, hasn't really done much other than this one flash in the pan show and now he gets a nationwide audience send off. All for being a drug addict.
What would you have had them do? He was the star of the show. He was loved by the cast and crew. People do love addicts, you know. Also, his girlfriend is still on the show. So, what should they have done?

Also, it's 'junkie'.
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Old 10-11-2013, 08:31 AM   #39
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A simple note posted at the end of a regular episode saying that "he will be missed" or similar. That too would have been a good option.
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Old 10-11-2013, 08:33 AM   #40
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What would you have had them do? He was the star of the show. He was loved by the cast and crew. People do love addicts, you know. Also, his girlfriend is still on the show. So, what should they have done?

Also, it's 'junkie'.
And the better word is "addict." As in, he made a bad choice and got "addicted" to narcotics, and unfortunately in the end that addiction killed him.
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Old 10-11-2013, 08:34 AM   #41
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A simple note posted at the end of a regular episode saying that "he will be missed" or similar. That too would have been a good option.
What do they do about the character? This wasn't a goodbye to Cory, it was a goodbye to Finn.
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Old 10-11-2013, 08:34 AM   #42
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And the better word is "addict." As in, he made a bad choice and got "addicted" to narcotics, and unfortunately in the end that addiction killed him.
Well, yes, but if you're going to use the word, learn how to spell it.
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Old 10-11-2013, 08:51 AM   #43
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What do they do about the character? This wasn't a goodbye to Cory, it was a goodbye to Finn.
I think it was both. While watching the episode, I kept thinking they were going to show flashbacks of him during pivotal moments from the show. About halfway through, it suddenly dawned on me that they made a deliberate decision for the episode to be more about the actors saying goodbye than the audience. I'm cool with that. It wasn't just a character dying, it was their friend. I'm sure filming those scenes was very cathartic for them.
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Old 10-11-2013, 09:05 AM   #44
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I think it was both. While watching the episode, I kept thinking they were going to show flashbacks of him during pivotal moments from the show. About halfway through, it suddenly dawned on me that they made a deliberate decision for the episode to be more about the actors saying goodbye than the audience. I'm cool with that. It wasn't just a character dying, it was their friend. I'm sure filming those scenes was very cathartic for them.
I wondered (and then realized) the same thing.

The scene with Burt and Finn's mom had me sobbing.

"After your child dies, you are still a parent...you're just a parent without a child..."



God, that was emotional!
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Old 10-11-2013, 09:11 AM   #45
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If what you don't give a crap about is being factually correct, that much is obvious. If it's something else, then one has to wonder how you gave enough a crap to post your response in the first place. A) He absolutely was wronged, regardless of whether or not the actions stood up to legal scrutiny. There's a lot more to right and wrong than merely what's written in law books. 2) Who's stamping their feet and protesting? I simply decided that I had no interest in being a patron of an artist who plagiarizes (even if in a legal manner) other artists' (JC was not the first indie artist to be treated in that way, just the one with the most fans and publicity "juice") work. Apparently he's got nothing on you.

Crap. It is business and standard practices. Glee understood them. He didn't. This kind of thing happens everyday.

And I meant he is stamping his feet. Them co opting the name of Glee. Yup. He is a great man.

Btw, my facts came from his website.
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Old 10-11-2013, 09:14 AM   #46
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Difference being that all those folks were "legends" in their roles in society...this kid, not so much.
And "this kid" gets a send off on HIS show. Hardly the same scale because he wasn't the legend that Michael Jackson or Elvis were.
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Old 10-11-2013, 09:22 AM   #47
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You mean the one he is now marketing as "In the Style of Glee" and that he violated the copyright agreement on when he did the arrangement. Okay.

Not that I am taking a side. There are two sides to everything.
What are you both talking about?
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Old 10-11-2013, 09:31 AM   #48
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Crap. It is business and standard practices. Glee understood them. He didn't. This kind of thing happens everyday.
A great many injustices happen everyday. Just because Glee's brand of plagiarism is a standard business practice, that doesn't mean their victims should just silently take it dry.


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And I meant he is stamping his feet. Them co opting the name of Glee.
"Co-opting the name of Glee", wow... that's some high comedy right there. I picture you holding your wrist to your forehead as you say that.

He sold his song as a cover of Baby Got Back with an arrangement that was in the same style as the one on Glee (which just so happened to be his original arrangement, but hey, that's just a standard business practice, right?), and advertised it as such.

What he did was perfectly legal too. By your stated standards, you should have no problem with that. And in any case, the fact that you do is largely unimportant as yours is the vastly minority view: his "cover" of the Glee version ("It's a cover of Glee's cover of my cover of Sir Mix-a-Lot's song, which is to say it's EXACTLY THE SAME as my original version.") absolutely crushed Glee's version on the iTunes charts.

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Yup. He is a great man.
And all the proceeds from the sales of that single (minus itunes fees and royalties to Sir Mix-a-Lot) went to charity.

So your sarcasm notwithstanding, he's certainly a better man than most.

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Btw, my facts came from his website.
Well then, you'll have to link to the page on his website where he supports you claim that "he violated the copyright agreement on [Baby Got Back] when he did the arrangement", because either you are reading his words wrong, or... well... actually, there's really no other explanation, since that's a patently false statement.



As for the show, just because what you do may be legal, that doesn't mean you can't be a dick for doing it. What Glee did was a dick move.

Personally, I don't feel the need to patronize dicks. What you choose to do with your free time is your business.
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Old 10-11-2013, 09:33 AM   #49
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What are you both talking about?
When the show featured the Sir Mix-A-Lot song "Baby Got Back," last season I believe, they used an arrangement of the song that internet recording artist Jonathan Coulton composed and recorded. Coulton only found out when the Glee recording of the track hit iTunes.
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Old 10-11-2013, 09:33 AM   #50
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Not that you're taking a side...



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Old 10-11-2013, 09:56 AM   #51
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Music rights (and cover songs) confuse the hell out of me. I thought this was Sir-Mix-A-Lot.
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Old 10-11-2013, 10:25 AM   #52
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I think it was both. While watching the episode, I kept thinking they were going to show flashbacks of him during pivotal moments from the show. About halfway through, it suddenly dawned on me that they made a deliberate decision for the episode to be more about the actors saying goodbye than the audience. I'm cool with that. It wasn't just a character dying, it was their friend. I'm sure filming those scenes was very cathartic for them.
Ryan Murphy said that most of what you see on screen were first takes because the cast and crew were too emotional to do a second.

Quote:
"...those performances that you’ll see — almost everything in that episode — is from the first take of every performance because the actors and the crew had a really hard time shooting it.”

Ryan added that along with the cast, the crew was actually extremely upset, making it really hard to finish.

“I’ve never seen a crew that you can’t continue shooting because they’ve left the room sobbing,” he explained.

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Old 10-11-2013, 10:37 AM   #53
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Music rights (and cover songs) confuse the hell out of me. I thought this was Sir-Mix-A-Lot.
The lyrics are Sir-Mix-A-Lot's. The music and arrangement are Coulton's (but by virtue of certain wrinkles of copyright law governing covers, Coulton doesn't actually own the rights to his own music and arrangement in that song).

So while they (maybe*) did nothing wrong from a legal standpoint, they passed off the original arrangement of the song as their own, or at the very least, without giving due credit to the composer.




*I say "maybe" because there's a strong argument to be made that not only did they plagiarize the arrangement, but they might have simply used JC's original recording as well, instead of having their own musicians just rerecord "in the style of". If they in fact did that, then they would have done something illegal.

Couple that with the fact that JC rather abruptly went completely mum on the matter, leads me to believe that Glee's producers came to a legal settlement with him.
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Old 10-11-2013, 10:46 AM   #54
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With music, could I record an album of a bunch of cover songs, and as long as I don't take writing credits, could I sell it?

Is this why with the early Guitar Hero songs they used cover versions for most songs?
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Old 10-11-2013, 10:53 AM   #55
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With music, could I record an album of a bunch of cover songs, and as long as I don't take writing credits, could I sell it?
You'll owe royalties to whoever owns the rights to the song, but otherwise yes.

Furthermore, the person who owns the rights to the song can't actually stop you from putting out a cover version; all they can do is collect the royalty.

(And they can't "backdoor veto" your cover by charging an exorbitant royalty either, the royalties for just audio-only covers are based on a scale determined by the copyright office. The artist has no say in that instance.)

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Is this why with the early Guitar Hero songs they used cover versions for most songs?
More or less, yes. Not using the original recording means that there's one less type of royalty to pay.
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Old 10-11-2013, 11:02 AM   #56
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With music, could I record an album of a bunch of cover songs, and as long as I don't take writing credits, could I sell it?
Yes. You would obtain a type of license called a compulsory license, then as long as you just want to re-record their song, don't change the lyrics or the fundamental nature of the song, and you acknowledge their ownership of the song, you're OK.
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Old 10-11-2013, 11:47 AM   #57
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Yes. You would obtain a type of license called a compulsory license, then as long as you just want to re-record their song, don't change the lyrics or the fundamental nature of the song, and you acknowledge their ownership of the song, you're OK.

What does the fundamental nature mean? Some of the covers are vastly different.

Hayseed Dixie comes to mind.

On a related note, parodies are fair game right? I know Weird Al seeks permission, but he doesn't need to correct?
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Old 10-11-2013, 11:59 AM   #58
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parody and satire is covered under fair-use.
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Old 10-11-2013, 12:16 PM   #59
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Music licensing is complicated, messy and quite lucrative. Groups like ASCAP and BMI act similar to the mob doing things like going to restaurants and demanding licensing fees. There's a story out there about a guy named Richard Phillips who was playing his own original music in a restaurant and BMI still demanded licensing fees on it. It's a messed up business.
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Old 10-11-2013, 12:26 PM   #60
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It's a racket for sure - my music industry survey class in college could have been renamed: "**** the RIAA and **** BMI, too"

I actually switched schools and majors after that class because I didn't want to be a part of it.
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