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Old 10-03-2013, 11:22 AM   #1
hershey4
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Mini, Moca, wi-fi, Oh my... still confused

So I finally ditched my S2 when I moved to new residence and new ISP (Xfinity). I got a Premiere-4 and Mini and Moca-Adapter and POE. When I first did setup on the P4, there was no Moca available yet and a wireless connection was required. Fine, did that. Then the electrician came to create a drop in another room -- went from a 3-way splitter to a 4-way. That's when I installed the Moca/Mini/poe. Installation was pretty straightforward. I don't think I could have screwed it up. (but I never rule that out!). There were a few cycles of comcast doing and re-doing the pairing/validation to get it all right, but other than that, nothings changed.

Mostly the streaming to the Mini works fine. There was some intermittent audio dropping a bit, but these forums confirmed that was widespread issue apparently due to some update. But as I continued to use the Mini, I see that it does not playback High-Def properly at all. It plays for 3 seconds and then all audio drops out permanently, then video gets choppy.

I couldn't find anything similar on these forums.. and have read gazillions of threads about Moca/mini til my head is spinning. Everybody's setup seems just different enough that I am not sure if what I am reading would apply to my problem. I submitted a support ticket and they came back with the P4 needs to use Moca, not wi-fi.

This is confusing me because I thought the wi-fi was just for internet access for getting programming info. I thought the P4 has built-in Moca and it is connected to the wall so shouldn't it be using it already??? Prior to purchasing it, spoke to tech support and they described requirements and confirmed this setup was fine.

How do I get my P4 to use Moca if it is not already using it? I went to Network Settings and nothing there is Moca-related. And does that sound like what the problem really is?

setup: basement: 1ghz, 4-way splitter
room 1: modem,router,moca-adapter,ups
room 2: P4 on jack and wi-fi
room 3: Mini on jack
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Old 10-03-2013, 11:40 AM   #2
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Do you have ethernet at the P4? If so, you can use that and let the tivo initiate the moca network.

Get rid of the wifi on the tivo- it is doing nothing for you.
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Old 10-03-2013, 11:51 AM   #3
hershey4
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Quote:
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Do you have ethernet at the P4?
no

Quote:
Get rid of the wifi on the tivo- it is doing nothing for you.
how does it use Moca instead? My router says I have 1 wired and 1 wireless Tivo. I assumed the wired reference was the mini?

Won't I need wifi if and when I want to transfer back and forth to PC? I did a bunch of that with my S2 and perhaps will again once I have a need.
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Old 10-03-2013, 11:59 AM   #4
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The MOCA serves as the internet and local network connection for both the P4 and the mini. With the wifi removed you can set it up through the menus.
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Old 10-03-2013, 12:04 PM   #5
hershey4
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so I don't need ethernet? Then why did you ask if I had it? (I confuse easily...bear with me)
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Old 10-03-2013, 12:05 PM   #6
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Most importantly, do you think this is related to my high-def issue?
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Old 10-03-2013, 12:08 PM   #7
hershey4
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There is nothing in the menu's about disabling wi-fi (like a phone). I assume you mean remove the wifi adapter. Should I reboot?
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Old 10-03-2013, 12:14 PM   #8
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Get rid of the wifi- remove from the tivo, then reboot and go through the menus to enable the moca network.

The MOCA will be your netowrk, it replaces any need for wifi or ethernet for the tivos.
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Old 10-03-2013, 03:15 PM   #9
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back in business. Thanks. A few hoops - at first DVR said not happy, wanted ip address, then by the time I found it, it found it too. Had to reboot mini too.

This does beg the question though, how was it mostly streaming before via wi-fi????

It will be interesting to see if the overall responsiveness is improved (or not) on both devices. I was a little disappointed at general interface sluggishness compared to my relatively snappy S2 (which I didn't appreciate until now). Probably apples and oranges though and not related to network.

Another question... I suppose I'll find out in time, but does the IP address that it just got stay constant in the network? I vaguely recall in my former setup having to create some dedicated ip addresses on my router for a couple of things, but I can't recall the specifics. This router is new and I didn't find a menu for doing that.
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Old 10-03-2013, 04:44 PM   #10
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Yes, it was streaming through wifi, thus the poor performance. It should be instant now.

You can set up your ips however you like, some like to have them fixed, others do not. I only do it for convenience, say when using pytivo.
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Old 10-03-2013, 05:24 PM   #11
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So it sounds like what you had been doing was using Wi-Fi on the Premiere, and then creating the MoCA network with the MoCA adapter you have at your router, and feeding this to your Minis.

This would absolutely explain the crappy performance.

What you should be doing is using MoCA on the Premiere-4 as well as the Minis... you don't need Wi-Fi at all.

The Premiere and the Minis will be leaning on the MoCA adapter at your router for internet access (Netflix, etc).... they will use the coax wiring in the house for local streaming of content from the host P4 to the Minis.

If you still have trouble streaming high def content with MoCa in use on all of the TiVo hardware then there would potentially be a problem with a particular coax drop in your network, or a splitter that wasn't working well, or the adapter itself has issues.

Interface on the P4 is probably going to be kind of pokey... whereas interface speed on the Mini should be very fast. Mini interface speed has nothing to do with the quality of your network connection.

It's worth noting that if you are a person who likes to channel surf (instead of using the guide to choose channels) then the Mini will feel pokey when switching channels which can take a full 3-5 seconds... instead of channel flipping with the up/down channel buttons you might get more satisfaction out of picking channels from the guide and then tuning them.... if nothing else it will make the delay seem less noticeable.
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Old 10-05-2013, 06:07 PM   #12
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not through yet...

oh-oh... still problems. I thought all was okay, but I was just browsing settings on the P4 and got a message that the DVR only has 3 days of programming info. Do you want to "Connect to Tivo Service Now"? I said yes and it did successfully. But there is still no programming info!!!!

This must be related to establishing Moca, but I have no idea what to look for!! I saw some old threads on the subject that talked about firewalls and routers, but it was kinda greek to me.

Any idea what I can try?

I may have to put Wifi back on to get more programming if I don't resolve this quickly.

Also interesting that it said 3 days left... I thought it got 2 weeks at a time. I only "moca-ized" it a couple of days ago.
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Old 10-06-2013, 06:32 AM   #13
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troubleshooting and clues

So I thought to reset the router and moca adapter to see what would happen. At first I just unpowered them and repowered them. When I looked on my Router's Attached Devices, neither Tivo was present! I looked at the moca adapter and the Ethernet and Coax lights were not lit. So I re-did the power off/on cycle and also removed/reinserted the ethernet/coax lines to the Moca as well. That was better. Both lights came on. But, the router shows the two tivo devices but device names are <unknown>.

And it still didn't help the Connect to Tivo Service problem though. :-( I even rebooted the Premiere again just in case...

This bites...This whole "simple Tivo experience" is just not so simple anymore. I'm afraid I'm going to have to call support. They're likely going to make me do and redo a gazillion more things... I have better things to do... this is so annoying...
//end rant ...sorry
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Old 10-06-2013, 09:14 AM   #14
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Have you gone to the tivo pages to review the network set up for MOCA? It sound like you have something set up wrong, I would start easy and then go bigger. Disconnect everything but the essentials to the main tivo box and diagnose that first.
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Old 10-06-2013, 10:12 AM   #15
hershey4
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Does this picture confirm setup? It looks like diagrams on tivo (except that many diagrams exist)

CABLE-IN -> Moca -> Modem -> Router
ETHERNET: Moca -> Router -> modem or is it?
Modem -> router -> Moca

On the router there is one primary port and 4 other ports. I don't know what direction ethernet is flowing. I tried switching them on the router and PC internet disappeared so I know they are right.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg moca.jpg (40.6 KB, 19 views)

Last edited by hershey4 : 10-06-2013 at 10:33 AM. Reason: clarify
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Old 10-06-2013, 12:44 PM   #16
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I put the wifi back on just to see what would happen -- same problem. Doesn't finish loading but says it did. So I had to call support. I probably have a corrupted program guide. So I had to clear it and it will take an hour to finish :-(

Seems unrelated that turning on moca bridge caused this problem. but apparently it did or quite the coincidence. Aw shoot... Its still in wifi mode. I should have put it back to Moca before the clearing started. now I might be in a recursive loop :-)
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Old 10-06-2013, 02:44 PM   #17
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false hope....for the record, still not loading program guide -- via wifi or moca.

I want my S2 back..... waaaaahhhh I just sold it today

Ran diagnostics/repair per tech support, but no help. I think his next step in his canned checklist is a box swap. damn...
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Old 10-06-2013, 05:15 PM   #18
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You do not want to have the Cable Modem on the same side of the network as the TV's and MoCA network The two will not play well together.

Comcast should of put a two way splitter in the box at the connection into the house. One side of the two way splitter goes only to the Cable Modem. The other side of the two way splitter is where the POE filter is attached then to the cable that enters the house arriving at your 4-way splitter that connects to the TV and DVR's / MoCA network.

CABLE-IN (side 1) --> Modem -> ETHERNET
ETHERNET: Router --> MoCA Adapter (Ethernet side), Computers, Wireless router ...
CABLE-IN (side 2) --> POE --> 4 way Spliter --> MoCA Adapter (coax side) , Premiere , Mini ...
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Old 10-06-2013, 06:34 PM   #19
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I like that in principal... I am assuming it gives signal priority to ethernet and less to catv.

But I'm a little confused about the logistics and how I would implement it here. 1) This is a condo with a shared outside box, not sure how that setup works with 3 units sharing something or other. 2) I am using one room's coax outlet as the "closet" with the modem/router and adapter together. I wanted to keep the router on the main living floor for best wifi range. Is that in your scenario ?

Can I get the effect by using a 2-way in the basement with one leg going to the room with the "closet" and other leg going to the 4-way and other rooms catv drops as now.
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Old 10-06-2013, 06:35 PM   #20
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the bad news is that replacement Premiere is on its way...could not get programming info no matter what!
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Old 10-06-2013, 07:50 PM   #21
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You would just do what homeuser says where it enters the condo. Once you figure out the MOCA, you can always add a repeater to strengthen the wifi signal, if necessary.
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Old 10-06-2013, 08:34 PM   #22
hershey4
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Quote:
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.... Once you figure out the MOCA, ....
Is my current Moca setup wrong?
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Old 10-06-2013, 10:32 PM   #23
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MoCA can interfere with some Cable Modems it is best to keep the two isolated with the POE in-between.

Put a 2 way splitter at the entry point into your condo, even if it has to be inside. Connect one side to the modem and the other to the POE filter before the 4 way. Yes a 2 way splitter will drop the signal by about 3db if you split the signal enough an amp may be needed on the video side. Just for reference I had 8 loads on the Video side of the splitter before the signal degraded enough to need a boost.
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Old 10-06-2013, 10:44 PM   #24
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I really don't want the equipment in the basement. It is much more convenient being on the main floor. Is there a way to configure the separation at one drop? THe whole network is pretty minimal: 1 tv with Premiere, 1 tv with Mini, 2 currently unused drops, 1 drop exclusive for modem,etc. PC and other accessory devices all using wifi.

I read there is such a thing as a moca-friendly router. (or was it modem???) maybe that would be simpler.
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Old 10-06-2013, 11:44 PM   #25
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It sounds like your network was working fine if it connected to the Tivo mothership without wifi attached. The broken database on the Tivo didn't have anything to do with the moca.

Did Tivo support give you a "kickstart" remote control code to run a hard drive diagnostic & repair? That often works. In any event, I guess it doesn't matter now too much since the replacement is already coming.
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Old 10-07-2013, 06:03 AM   #26
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It sounds like your network was working fine if it connected to the Tivo mothership without wifi attached. The broken database on the Tivo didn't have anything to do with the moca.
Correct. They had a log of many connections with MOca and with WIFI. Appears to be just a big coincidence with the timing of this Moca switcheroo. How the software got broken is still a mystery of course. Some software bugs can be dependent on seemingly unrelated sequence of events (software engineer...speaking from experience).

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Did Tivo support give you a "kickstart" remote control code to run a hard drive diagnostic & repair? That often works.
Yes, and that was interesting. First guy told me to do a 57 which is the long 3-hr run (sounds like a chkdsk /f operation). However, it ended after 10 minutes even though it began with the chkdsk startup screen telling me it would take 3 hours and had the risk of not being able to start Tivo ever again!!

When I called back, 2nd guy told me that I did a 54 which is a quick diagnostic run. I told him I did not do a 54, but he didn't believe me cuz first guys notes said 54 (so it must be so and customer lies???). He said if the 54 doesn't come up with anything, then the follow-up would be the drastic 57 which runs the risk of not being able to start Tivo ever again. (at least he told me of the risk).

THat's when I decided screw it... send me a replacement box!!!
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