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Old 08-20-2013, 05:01 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Grakthis View Post
It can't be that simple because it also supports audio. it has to be a little more complex than simply taking screen caps and sending them over HTTP.
There is a way to unlock an advanced mode of the extension. It has parameters for bitrate, so it seems to be using some sort of realtime A/V encoding. If it's encoding to a generic HTML5 video stream then TiVo should be able to support it no problem. If it's rendering to some special Chrome format then it probably wont. Although there could still be some codec licensing issues here.
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Old 08-20-2013, 05:01 PM   #32
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TiVo could easily implement their own control API, but I think that would be a mistake. My first response is that they need to call up Google and ask Google to share the API for Google Cast. But my fear there is that they did that, and Google said "no" and that's why the Roamio is running opera instead of chrome.

And if it's running Opera, is google going to be WILLING to share their control API?

We won't know until the Google Cast SDK is finalized and we see what google's terms of use say. If they say "You can't use this to cast to a non-Google device" then we'll know that the TiVo is not going to support the control portion of the spec and TiVo is on their own to map the "FF, Pause, Play, Back" etc. buttons to the browser... which sounds, ugly.
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Old 08-20-2013, 05:04 PM   #33
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There is a way to unlock an advanced mode of the extension. It has parameters for bitrate, so it seems to be using some sort of realtime A/V encoding. If it's encoding to a generic HTML5 video stream then TiVo should be able to support it no problem. If it's rendering to some special Chrome format then it probably wont. Although there could still be some codec licensing issues here.
My assumption, based on the quality settings and the strain it puts on the desktop PC, is that you are right and it is doing a real-time encoding of the browsers output and is streaming that video to the chromecast just like it's a youtube video. Basically, exactly what you are saying.

There are some very smart people hacking/unraveling the Google Cast API as we speak. I am sure those people are going to be able to tell us how it all works within the next 2-3 months.

I mean, a kid already wrote an app that basically hosts local files on your phone so the chromecast can play them and he did it without the SDK so Google couldn't stop him.
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Old 08-20-2013, 05:05 PM   #34
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If enough apps add native DIAL support then generic casting of a Chrome tab will be mostly unnecessary. Plus, as someone else mentioned, it might be possible for a 3rd party to write a generic app like this and create the same effect without involving Google. It might require it's own extension, but that's about it.
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Old 08-20-2013, 05:35 PM   #35
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It can't be that simple because it also supports audio. it has to be a little more complex than simply taking screen caps and sending them over HTTP.
Screenshots was the wrong term to use, it is using either H.264 or likely WebM video to capture the entire screen (with audio) and stream it to the ChromeCast device live. Just like Apple's AirPlay Mirroring implementation.
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Old 08-22-2013, 12:23 AM   #36
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You're appear to either be misunderstanding a lot of things or you're just way over your head here.

The Chromecast (device) has a chrome browser in it. That browser loads HTML5 apps. Those apps do not show a border around them because they run as full screen apps. No one said a word about ChromeOS. We said Chrome browser. Just like I have a chrome browser on my android phone and tablet. No one said anything about it loading a chrome browser on your phone/tablet. It loads a chrome browser on the chromecast.

Saying the Chromecast runs android is a bit shady. It's closer to GoogleTV, which is branched from android. It's not entirely untrue, but it's not accurate either. It does not run the version of android my phone runs, though they share a common core.

BTW, it is called a Chromecast because it loads everything in a chrome browser. I.E. the Chromecast is an OS and a web browser. pew pew.
A great source of information for Chromecast is the XDA forum as I'd previously mentioned. http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=2406

Again, regardless of the OS/browser built into the device, that does not detract from the following.

1. I don't have to use a browser of any sort to control the Chromecast from my Tablet with any of the applications already extended (Netflix, Youtube, Google Play movies or music). I only need to use Chrome Browser to launch content from my PC (or a Macintosh) that is not extended yet for ChromeCast or DIAL.

2. Those videos once launched are streaming from the cloud and not my device, so I can actually power off the tablet and the videos continue to play. Google Play music is the only exception as it won't advance to the next song if powered off.

3. I can then turn on my Samsung phone and load Netflix and continue to control the video with pause, stop or play. Or I can keep both on and easily control from either. Yep, a super cheap Barnes and Noble Nook Color that has CyanogenMod can then become a super cheap power remote for the Chromecast. Smacks that Harmony remote for that specific function. Heck, load the Tivo Tablet application and between the two you have full on control for both systems.

As to if the device itself uses a browser, it's seamless 1080P video that actually looks sharper than my Roku 2 and deffintely than my Tivo Premiere.

Tivo Roamio needs to completely knock it out of the park or it's very easy to stick with my Tivo Premiere and use Chromecast for a superior Netflix experience.

If Tivo Roamio does knock it out of the park, I'll upgrade and then likely stop using the Chromecast as a redundant feature.

But Tivo needs to have support for PC/Mac, Iphone/Ipad, Android out of the gate as that's there with Chromecast.
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Old 08-22-2013, 10:30 AM   #37
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But Tivo needs to have support for PC/Mac, Iphone/Ipad, Android out of the gate as that's there with Chromecast.
Again, DIAL is not the same as Chromecast. TiVo doesn't have to support a single piece of hardware. The apps themselves that are installed on the TiVo must support the DIAL api. That is all. If you want full Chromecast support where a hardware agnostic HTML5 app is loaded from a remote server, I don't see that ever happening on the Roamio platform.
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Old 08-22-2013, 11:00 AM   #38
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Again, DIAL is not the same as Chromecast. TiVo doesn't have to support a single piece of hardware. The apps themselves that are installed on the TiVo must support the DIAL api. That is all. If you want full Chromecast support where a hardware agnostic HTML5 app is loaded from a remote server, I don't see that ever happening on the Roamio platform.
It "could" if the app store TiVo is talking about actually materializes... A third party app could use the existing Opera browser for that purpose.

A little research would have to go into the idea, but my point is that something might be developed independent of TiVo the company.
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Old 08-22-2013, 11:12 AM   #39
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It "could" if the app store TiVo is talking about actually materializes... A third party app could use the existing Opera browser for that purpose.

A little research would have to go into the idea, but my point is that something might be developed independent of TiVo the company.
Sure. But nothing about the Chromecast server is open. So only reverse engineering would be possible. So I think people should set their expectations accordingly.
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Old 08-22-2013, 11:29 AM   #40
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Sure. But nothing about the Chromecast server is open. So only reverse engineering would be possible. So I think people should set their expectations accordingly.
And this is where my knowlege of the differences between Chromecast and DIAL services fails. Is there something specifically on either hardware our cloud services that google is doing that significanly differentiates itself from the open DIAL services.

I thought it was just bringing a browser into play - and everything worked via that mechanism.
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Old 08-22-2013, 11:52 AM   #41
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this is an interesting page to look at to see which companies have DIAL namespaces - http://www.dial-multiscreen.org/dial...space-database
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Old 08-22-2013, 12:26 PM   #42
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I've done my best to follow this discussion, but I'll admit I'm still not completely on board on DIAL vs Chromecast. But all this talk has me thinking that the Premiere's YouTube app is not far from this currently. With the exception of actually launching YouTube on the Premiere, you can completely control the Premiere YouTube app via the YouTube mobile app. You simply "pair" the mobile YouTube app to your "TV" (Premiere in this case). So, If I'm understanding everything DIAL is the last link.

The Roamio's will support DIAL, which is the "control" mechanism for the missing links described above. From the YouTube Mobile app, I'd pull up a video, and then tell it to play on my "TV". This would then pass a request via DIAL to the Roamio, basically saying "Launch YouTube" and then the rest just falls into place with the Mobile app then communicating with the Roamio YouTube app similarly to the current Premiere/Mobile YouTube interaction..
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Old 08-22-2013, 02:52 PM   #43
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DIAL is just what the acronym says, DIscovery And Launch. Launch can mean an application already on the server (the TiVo).

Are there any dial servers here? Yes.
Cool, do you have a YouTube app? Yes.
Ok, I'll let my user launch things at you.

The app can also be an HTML5 browser and a URL can be passed.

Control of the launched apps is not specified by DIAL. ("outside the scope")

Source for the above: https://sites.google.com/a/dial-mult...-specification , sections 3.1 - 3.3, 5.

Google Cast adds a proprietary protocol RAMP that's already being reverse engineered. One partial analysis is at https://github.com/entertailion/Fling (Also, that's a working Java app that serves to chromecast without the google SDK.)

RAMP appears to add control -- play, pause, etc. between the sender (tablet) and receiver (Chromecast).

I know from looking at the Google SDK, sender apps pass custom (for each web provider client) tokens that are used for authentication, authorization and specifying the desired media. The Javascript to do the auth & auth are also custom, loaded with the html.

People are already building software that does the Chromecast side of things. (Cheapcast, leapcast, picast)

Take aways:
  • Saying DIAL is supported doesn't mean DIAL with a browser is.
  • Saying DIAL is supported doesn't mean the launched app will be controlled by the tablet.
  • TiVo might just mean they'll let tablets LAUNCH the apps they have anyway, which can then be driven by the remote.*
  • DRM is in there somewhere. HBO Go isn't going to let people copy movies by sending streams just anywhere. So providers will have to approve of the receiver. This speaks to the idea of "everything just working".


* This isn't so bad from a usability standpoint. I miss my hard buttons when I want to pause my chromecast. But it's bad that it might not enable an explosion of supported services.
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Last edited by tlc : 08-22-2013 at 03:00 PM. Reason: Added footnote
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Old 09-11-2013, 04:12 PM   #44
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I've been using this a bit lately and it's pretty cool! The Netflix app is a lot easier to browse on my iPad and the Netflix app on the TiVo only takes a few seconds to launch, and is actually usable once it does. which is a stark contrast to the Netflix app on the Premiere.

I don't watch a lot of YouTube, but I have flung a few things to that too and it works equally as well.
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Old 10-03-2013, 08:50 AM   #45
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http://gigaom.com/2013/10/02/plex-to...romecast-soon/

This could definitely be a good thing for those of us who use Plex.
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Old 10-03-2013, 03:54 PM   #46
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Has anyone tried the latest iOS Hulu app with the Roamio? They just added DIAL/Chromecast support, I'm wondering if it works already or if it needs an update from TiVo.
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Old 10-03-2013, 04:47 PM   #47
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Has anyone tried the latest iOS Hulu app with the Roamio? They just added DIAL/Chromecast support, I'm wondering if it works already or if it needs an update from TiVo.
The APP will need to be updated for this to work.
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Old 10-03-2013, 11:35 PM   #48
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The APP will need to be updated for this to work.
The app on the TiVo?
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Old 10-04-2013, 09:51 AM   #49
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Yes, both the app on the device and the app on the TiVo need to be updated to support the DIAL protocol.
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Old 10-05-2013, 06:07 PM   #50
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Yes, both the app on the device and the app on the TiVo need to be updated to support the DIAL protocol.
That makes sense. I hadn't thought about the changes tot the receiving side. Hopefully tivo's Hulu Plus app is updated soon.
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Old 10-05-2013, 11:17 PM   #51
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That makes sense. I hadn't thought about the changes tot the receiving side. Hopefully tivo's Hulu Plus app is updated soon.
It would require a complete rewrite. Adding Chromecast support is easy because the app that is downloaded remotely only needs to be a small html5 file to play encrypted video. For DIAL support to work, Hulu would have to rewrite the entire app for TiVo. So while Chromecast uses the DIAL protocol, adding Chromecast support is much easier than adding DIAL support to an existing app.
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Old 10-06-2013, 12:17 AM   #52
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It would require a complete rewrite. Adding Chromecast support is easy because the app that is downloaded remotely only needs to be a small html5 file to play encrypted video.
Hulu doesn't have an HTML5 implementation as far as I know. They discussed that a few years back and decided it wasn't ready.

But that really doesn't matter - our Netflix implementation isn't HTML5 either. I have no idea how much effort it would be to add DIAL support to our HULU implementation - or how much incentive the have to do it.
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Old 10-06-2013, 12:26 PM   #53
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Hulu doesn't have an HTML5 implementation as far as I know.
They do for Chromecast since it requires it. But it is not a full app. It is just a small HTML5 wrapper than can play Hulu videos (there is very little UI required). That is why adding Chromecast support on the host is much easier than DIAL support.
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Old 10-07-2013, 10:42 AM   #54
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I know Tivo Margret is busy with the tuner/CC situation but app development plans and updates are something I'd very much appreciate.
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Old 10-07-2013, 02:57 PM   #55
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They don't typically talk about that kind of stuff. They just release apps whenever they're ready.
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Old 10-08-2013, 08:50 AM   #56
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I know Tivo Margret is busy with the tuner/CC situation but app development plans and updates are something I'd very much appreciate.
The community here will take any statement the Tivo is working on something as a promise that it will be released and then complain about broken promises and it not coming out "on schedule", so why would TiVo pre-announce more than they have to? Especially for apps which are being written by the content source and who's release timing is not under TiVo's control.
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Old 10-08-2013, 09:53 AM   #57
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The community here will take any statement the Tivo is working on something as a promise that it will be released and then complain about broken promises and it not coming out "on schedule", so why would TiVo pre-announce more than they have to? Especially for apps which are being written by the content source and who's release timing is not under TiVo's control.

I never said they "have to" did I?

That said, you're being a TiVo apologist. Just because they may have a history of promising and not delivering, or not communicating at all,doesn't mean it isn't possible. Development timelines are a standard part of any tech business, soft or hard. And yes **** happens and timelines slip, but on the whole it's very much standard practice for these things to be communicated, at least in a general way (eg saying Q4 rather than November 12), more than not. Even moreso for public companies. And yes even when outside partners are part of the process.

Said another way, the request is a reasonable expectation given the broader hardware and software community practices.

TiVo may suck at this, but that doesn't mean I can't ask anyway.
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Old 12-30-2013, 03:17 AM   #58
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Arrow What really happens... the 20.3.7.1a update

YouTube works fine. Even when doing something else on the TiVo. Quality in the video is grainy at first, but seems to sense when it can increase and gets better. You can control from the phone, pause/play, change where in the video it was. You can queue up another video to startup next. But backing up seems to lose where in the app it was and you never get back correctly again, lost in the TiVo app.

NetFlix is a bust. All it does is start the Netflix app on the TiVo with the typical lists. NOT the video you were expecting from the Netflix Google app. The Google app seems to never finish and it times out while the TiVo app goes off looking for the lists to display. Even if you already have the video playing on the TiVo, 'casting' from your phone resets NetFlix back to the start screen of lists. Totally useless.

I notice a difference in the two when you click the 'cast' icon. YouTube assumes you want to cast 'away' to other devices and only lists them. (like my TiVo Premiere) NetFlix adds your phone to the list too, apparently to let you switch back to 'local'. Bet this is where the screw up is. The two TiVo apps are probably expecting the same implementation of the protocol to be followed. The two Google apps probably AREN'T in sync. What ELSE is new inthe s/w world?!
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Old 12-31-2013, 07:57 PM   #59
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NetFlix is a bust. All it does is start the Netflix app on the TiVo with the typical lists. NOT the video you were expecting from the Netflix Google app. The Google app seems to never finish and it times out while the TiVo app goes off looking for the lists to display. Even if you already have the video playing on the TiVo, 'casting' from your phone resets NetFlix back to the start screen of lists. Totally useless.

I notice a difference in the two when you click the 'cast' icon. YouTube assumes you want to cast 'away' to other devices and only lists them. (like my TiVo Premiere) NetFlix adds your phone to the list too, apparently to let you switch back to 'local'. Bet this is where the screw up is. The two TiVo apps are probably expecting the same implementation of the protocol to be followed. The two Google apps probably AREN'T in sync. What ELSE is new inthe s/w world?!
the Netflix android app on my HTC one and nexus 7 2013 have no problem starting Netflix videos from the android app. Works flawlessly here. Its extremely helpful to fast forward or search a video that way. I have a chromecast too.
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