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Old 09-26-2013, 11:49 AM   #1171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary-B View Post
After you add the new Tivo to your account, you can just transfer season passes from the on-line Season Pass Manager to the new box.
Not a new Tivo.....a drive replacement on the same Tivo.


Quote:
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Yep, just like upgrading in the past, except as you note, no special format/setup on the new drive. Nice!

I had a 2nd TiVo to move off my SPs. I then moved them back again to the Roamio with new drive inserted.

As you note, kmttg is a perfect option to take your SPs offline for the upgrade.
Thanks for all the info. Guessing Tivo won't ever allow you to backup your season passes since "upgrading" is not entirely allowed.

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Old 09-26-2013, 12:00 PM   #1172
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Short of creating an officially sanctioned "cloning" tool (or uploading potentially TBs worth of shows to the internet) I don't see how TiVo could make that happen.
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Old 09-26-2013, 12:03 PM   #1173
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In respect to wanting to "upgrade" a drive you've already been using to a new drive and you want to preserve everything then yes, the new upgrade process is not much improved over the old one where special tools needed to be use to transfer settings, recordings, etc, over to a new drive.

The advantage (and it's a big one) is if you simply want to add capacity by way of a larger drive, don't mind losing things and re-running the setup.... for that all you have to do now is physically install a disk. That's a huge win for many of us... and also makes replacement in the event of a drive failure issue a snap.

Could TiVo make it so that the SPs, cable-card pairing, and many other things were written to flash for a drive swap out? Probably... but look at it this way, the primary reason they probably made the drive easy to swap out was for MSOs.... and those MSOs might actually look at that as a dis-advantage. If a customer brings in a TiVo or a TiVo has a problem they can just put a bare drive in and "bam" new TiVo.
No doubt it's a huge win. No longer would I have to order a special drive from eBay just to upgrade.

Would love for Tivo to make drives easily swappable.

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Old 09-26-2013, 12:04 PM   #1174
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Short of creating an officially sanctioned "cloning" tool (or uploading potentially TBs worth of shows to the internet) I don't see how TiVo could make that happen.
No, not backing up shows themselves....just the passes.

-Kevin
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Old 09-26-2013, 12:41 PM   #1175
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As for the warranty...thanks. Kind of like the Apple warranty.....which is why I keep old RAM around just in case they refuse work with 3rd party RAM.
Memory is considered a user-serviceable item under Apple's warranty. It doesn't void your warranty.
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Old 09-26-2013, 12:43 PM   #1176
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Memory is considered a user-serviceable item under Apple's warranty. It doesn't void your warranty.
Correct....but Apple reps will almost immediately blame any 3rd party components in the system....RAM being one of them. I've experienced it first hand and it was just easier to put the stock memory back in than argue with them.

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Old 10-01-2013, 05:44 PM   #1177
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Has anyone made any progress into (or is anyone even still working on) how Weaknees cracked the 4tb puzzle?

I'm wanting to upgrade from 5 premieres to 2 Roamios and 3 Minis. I'd really love to do 4tb in each of them.

I was hoping the Community would come through (like they always do), but no news for a while...

If I broke down and bought one 4tb unit from Weaknees, would I be able to clone the drive to to a second blank drive? Any ideas what tools might work for that?
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Old 10-01-2013, 06:01 PM   #1178
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To me, the significance of the 4TB upgrade kits that weaKnees is offering is that it means that you can install a pre-configured drive in an S5, making it very likely tools can be developed that enable you to upgrade one that has been in use for a while and keep all of your settings and recordings.
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Old 10-01-2013, 07:20 PM   #1179
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For what it's worth Weaknees now has 8 TB update kits (two drives).
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Old 10-01-2013, 07:49 PM   #1180
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Indeed. For those who want to store 1200+ hours of HD but aren't worried about the chance of either drive failing, taking the whole lot with it.
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Old 10-02-2013, 06:29 AM   #1181
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I finally have the hardware I need and I'm working on it, but no luck so far. I was really hoping that since the OS is in memory now, just getting the box upgraded to the latest software before installing a 4TB drive would solve the problem but it doesn't.

It's writing Block0, the new APM (more on that later), and successfully creating the /var & SQLite partitions, but it doesn't create any of the MFS structures and just keeps looping into an error message / KS57 circle.

I just bought a lifetime Pro and a WD40EFRX, so I can't afford another $350 right now just to see how Weaknees did it. It's obvious from looking at what I've seen so far that TiVo intended it to work (at least in the future), but there's still a bug somewhere.
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Old 10-02-2013, 10:23 AM   #1182
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I finally have the hardware I need and I'm working on it, but no luck so far. I was really hoping that since the OS is in memory now, just getting the box upgraded to the latest software before installing a 4TB drive would solve the problem but it doesn't.

It's writing Block0, the new APM (more on that later), and successfully creating the /var & SQLite partitions, but it doesn't create any of the MFS structures and just keeps looping into an error message / KS57 circle.

I just bought a lifetime Pro and a WD40EFRX, so I can't afford another $350 right now just to see how Weaknees did it. It's obvious from looking at what I've seen so far that TiVo intended it to work (at least in the future), but there's still a bug somewhere.
If you update the software with the original Roamio drive than replace the drive I think that the new software is downloaded again onto the new drive, I think the internal flash is just enough memory to get the drive formatted and download the current software onto the drive.
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Old 10-02-2013, 01:09 PM   #1183
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If you had access to a working 4tb image (DVR Bars?), are you confident that you could replicate the result?
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Old 10-02-2013, 01:22 PM   #1184
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What drive is Weaknees using for their 4TB solution?
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Old 10-02-2013, 02:13 PM   #1185
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All their site says is "A Western Digital AV Line Drive".
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Old 10-02-2013, 03:02 PM   #1186
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i thought WD didn't have a 4TB A/V drive yet? I know they recently came out with a 4TB Red drive.
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Old 10-02-2013, 04:28 PM   #1187
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i thought WD didn't have a 4TB A/V drive yet? I know they recently came out with a 4TB Red drive.
WD does have an OEM line of drives that WK may have access to.
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Old 10-02-2013, 04:52 PM   #1188
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If you had access to a working 4tb image (DVR Bars?), are you confident that you could replicate the result?
DvrBARS is limited to 2TB drives by the Microsoft VHD file format, but just coping the first 32KB using a hex editor like HxD or iBored would be a big start in the right direction.
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Old 10-02-2013, 05:03 PM   #1189
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If you update the software with the original Roamio drive than replace the drive I think that the new software is downloaded again onto the new drive, I think the internal flash is just enough memory to get the drive formatted and download the current software onto the drive.
The entire Linux OS is contained on the motherboard, probably in the 4GB NAND chip next to the hard drive power supply jack on a Plus or Pro. I used a 1TB drive, let it build the hard drive and update to 20.3.6. Then I wiped the drive and started over, and that time it skipped the upgrade step altogether.

The /var and SQLite partitions are the only real Linux partitions on the hard drive. The Bootstrap, Kernel & Root partitions are all just empty 4KB placeholders.
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Old 10-03-2013, 01:51 AM   #1190
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The entire Linux OS is contained on the motherboard, probably in the 4GB NAND chip next to the hard drive power supply jack on a Plus or Pro. I used a 1TB drive, let it build the hard drive and update to 20.3.6. Then I wiped the drive and started over, and that time it skipped the upgrade step altogether.

The /var and SQLite partitions are the only real Linux partitions on the hard drive. The Bootstrap, Kernel & Root partitions are all just empty 4KB placeholders.
Good to know, but I wonder if the WK 4K drive would work with all future TiVo updates.
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Old 10-03-2013, 04:31 AM   #1191
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Does anyone know if the Roamio is SATA 3GB/s or 6GB/s?

Does anyone know if the Roamio is capable of achieving SATA 6GB/s speeds?
I want to upgrade the HD and need to know if I should get an HD with an SATA II or SATA III interface.
I would be willing to pay the extra money for the SATA 6GB/s speed drives (Ex. WD AV-GP EURX [6GB/s] over EURS [3GB/s]) but I can't seem to find any information that states if the Roamio is capable of attaining those speeds. If it's locked at SATA 3GB/s because of the hardware configuration, then I don't see a point in paying extra for the SATA 6GB/s speed drives since it will never be able to reach those interface speeds anyway.
I'm hoping someone knows the answer to this.
Maybe it's an obvious answer...
However, I just want to make sure I get this right before I spend the money on a new HD and this forum seems the best suited to answer this question.
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Old 10-03-2013, 07:55 AM   #1192
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Does anyone know if the Roamio is capable of achieving SATA 6GB/s speeds?
I want to upgrade the HD and need to know if I should get an HD with an SATA II or SATA III interface.
I would be willing to pay the extra money for the SATA 6GB/s speed drives (Ex. WD AV-GP EURX [6GB/s] over EURS [3GB/s]) but I can't seem to find any information that states if the Roamio is capable of attaining those speeds. If it's locked at SATA 3GB/s because of the hardware configuration, then I don't see a point in paying extra for the SATA 6GB/s speed drives since it will never be able to reach those interface speeds anyway.
I'm hoping someone knows the answer to this.
Maybe it's an obvious answer...
However, I just want to make sure I get this right before I spend the money on a new HD and this forum seems the best suited to answer this question.
No platter hard drive is fast enough to take advantage of those speeds.
SSDs are another story though. I know my Solid State Drives get over 500MB/s(4Gb/s) transfer rates(sustained sequential write and read) and can take advantage of Sata 3 speeds, but no platter drive comes anywhere close to those speeds. So basically Sata 2 speeds are what the fastest platter drive can really take advantage of.

Plus we are talking about a TiVo. It is reading/writing very, very slow A/V streams.
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Old 10-03-2013, 08:43 AM   #1193
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The entire Linux OS is contained on the motherboard, probably in the 4GB NAND chip next to the hard drive power supply jack on a Plus or Pro. I used a 1TB drive, let it build the hard drive and update to 20.3.6. Then I wiped the drive and started over, and that time it skipped the upgrade step altogether.

The /var and SQLite partitions are the only real Linux partitions on the hard drive. The Bootstrap, Kernel & Root partitions are all just empty 4KB placeholders.
That's just like the THR22-100 then. I don't know why some people refuse to believe it. As you said, there's a 4 GB NAND chip right there.

It's too bad those partitions are there yet empty. One thing I don't know is if the 16 partition limit is still there or not. That's purely a Tivo limit. If it's not there, the drives would be a heck of a lot easier to expand.

Probably what could be done is to merge the first MFS partition pair into one partition. Using the freed up partition number, create/expand a new partition to just short of the 2 TB mark, then create/expand another new partition to take up almost all of the remaining room.

The main problem is that jfms doesn't have an option to limit the expansion. At least I can't find one.

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Old 10-03-2013, 04:06 PM   #1194
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Good to know, but I wonder if the WK 4K drive would work with all future TiVo updates.
There are probably a few that already survived the update to 20.3.6 but it's a good question.

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That's just like the THR22-100 then. I don't know why some people refuse to believe it. As you said, there's a 4 GB NAND chip right there.

It's too bad those partitions are there yet empty. One thing I don't know is if the 16 partition limit is still there or not. That's purely a Tivo limit. If it's not there, the drives would be a heck of a lot easier to expand.

Probably what could be done is to merge the first MFS partition pair into one partition. Using the freed up partition number, create/expand a new partition to just short of the 2 TB mark, then create/expand another new partition to take up almost all of the remaining room.

The main problem is that jfms doesn't have an option to limit the expansion. At least I can't find one.
Several more good questions.

There are enough differences in Block0, the APM, and the MFS headers to throw off all of the older tools. I had DvrBARS at least reading its way through all the new stuff until I tackled a 4TB drive, then the APM format changed again. Back to work on it tomorrow...
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Old 10-03-2013, 04:30 PM   #1195
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Swapped-in a new 3TB drive last night into my Plus, Process could not have been simpler!

WD AV-GP 3TB AV Video Hard Drive (WD30EURS).

$140 on Amazon!

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004W9BKE0
If you'd done it before even booting up the stock drive, as I did....it would have been a tad simpler (by not allowing any content to pile up first).

I paid about the same for the same drive a month ago--about $40 less with the gift card balance I had.
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Old 10-04-2013, 10:40 AM   #1196
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First post to this forum. Thanks for all the great info. I upgraded my base Roamio last night. Everything went great and it is up and running without issue. One thing to note is that my top cover didn't seem to want to slide forward. It had 3 plastic tabs on both sides that I had to gently pry open and then rotate the cover off. Is this different from the other Roamio's? or did I miss something?
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Old 10-04-2013, 10:42 AM   #1197
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First post to this forum. Thanks for all the great info. I upgraded my base Roamio last night. Everything went great and it is up and running without issue. One thing to note is that my top cover didn't seem to want to slide forward. It had 3 plastic tabs on both sides that I had to gently pry open and then rotate the cover off. Is this different from the other Roamio's? or did I miss something?
Yes, the case for the base Roamio is a plastic shell design and a number of people have reported it is a little harder to open then expected.

The Plus and Pro models are similar to the older designs with the metal cover. Just a couple of screws and it slides open.
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Old 10-04-2013, 04:22 PM   #1198
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It's too bad those partitions are there yet empty. One thing I don't know is if the 16 partition limit is still there or not. That's purely a Tivo limit. If it's not there, the drives would be a heck of a lot easier to expand.
While there is a 16 partition limit, there is actually no requirement that TiVo MFS Zones map 1-to-1 to partitions, so in effect, the 16 partition limit doesn't have to negatively affect your ease of expansion.

Basically Partition 15 (or 16) can contain multiple TiVo MFS Zones and it works fine. This is how I have my S3 OLED expanded twice even though it already had 15 partitions when I expanded it the 2nd time.

The original 1-to-1 mapping of TiVo MFS zones to partitions is something introduced by the people who were writing the upgrade tools because of an assumption about how TiVo MFS zones worked that either is no longer true or was not true back then but people didn't realize that yet.
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Old 10-05-2013, 03:15 PM   #1199
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While there is a 16 partition limit, there is actually no requirement that TiVo MFS Zones map 1-to-1 to partitions, so in effect, the 16 partition limit doesn't have to negatively affect your ease of expansion.

Basically Partition 15 (or 16) can contain multiple TiVo MFS Zones and it works fine. This is how I have my S3 OLED expanded twice even though it already had 15 partitions when I expanded it the 2nd time.

The original 1-to-1 mapping of TiVo MFS zones to partitions is something introduced by the people who were writing the upgrade tools because of an assumption about how TiVo MFS zones worked that either is no longer true or was not true back then but people didn't realize that yet.
Yep. I know all that. Which is why I recommended combining the last two or three existing MFS partitions into one. It's just that none of the tools messed with the existing partitions -- they just made new ones.

But the APM trick I think we need to use for the Roamio will require an MFS partition to stop just before the 2 TB mark, then add another 2 TB MFS partition right after it. We barely have enough partitions without having to combine any partitions. ( It's sad because many of these partitions in the Roamio are placeholders -- the entire OS is on the flash.)

Here's the list of partitions on the Premiere as they are stored on the hard disk. I suspect the Roamio is the same:

1 Apple_partition_map Apple
13 MFS MFS media region 2
2 Image Bootstrap 1 (empty)
3 Image Kernel 1 (empty)
4 Ext2 Root 1 (empty)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 (empty)
6 Image Kernel 2 (empty)
7 Ext2 Root 2 (empty)
8 Swap Linux swap
9 Ext2 /var
14 Ext2 SQLite
10 MFS MFS application region
12 MFS MFS application region 2
11 MFS MFS media region

So to get a 4 TB partition to work, you add partition 15 as MFS region 3 up to the 2 TB spot on the HD, then make partition 16 a 2 TB MFS region 4 partition that starts right at the end of partition 15. That would make a total of 16 partitions total, with 6 MFS partitions which easily falls under the 12 MFS partition limit that existed on old Tivos.

Then, add a 4 TB eSATA HD with two partitions 2 TB each (numbers 17 and 18) to get 8 TB total.

The problem is, Tivo apparently made enough other changes so that none of the old tools work. I could modify JFMS to do the double expansion I described above, but I have a feeling that it wouldn't work.
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Old 10-05-2013, 08:09 PM   #1200
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Yep. I know all that. Which is why I recommended combining the last two or three existing MFS partitions into one. It's just that none of the tools messed with the existing partitions -- they just made new ones.

But the APM trick I think we need to use for the Roamio will require an MFS partition to stop just before the 2 TB mark, then add another 2 TB MFS partition right after it. We barely have enough partitions without having to combine any partitions. ( It's sad because many of these partitions in the Roamio are placeholders -- the entire OS is on the flash.)

Here's the list of partitions on the Premiere as they are stored on the hard disk. I suspect the Roamio is the same:

1 Apple_partition_map Apple
13 MFS MFS media region 2
2 Image Bootstrap 1 (empty)
3 Image Kernel 1 (empty)
4 Ext2 Root 1 (empty)
5 Image Bootstrap 2 (empty)
6 Image Kernel 2 (empty)
7 Ext2 Root 2 (empty)
8 Swap Linux swap
9 Ext2 /var
14 Ext2 SQLite
10 MFS MFS application region
12 MFS MFS application region 2
11 MFS MFS media region

So to get a 4 TB partition to work, you add partition 15 as MFS region 3 up to the 2 TB spot on the HD, then make partition 16 a 2 TB MFS region 4 partition that starts right at the end of partition 15. That would make a total of 16 partitions total, with 6 MFS partitions which easily falls under the 12 MFS partition limit that existed on old Tivos.

Then, add a 4 TB eSATA HD with two partitions 2 TB each (numbers 17 and 18) to get 8 TB total.

The problem is, Tivo apparently made enough other changes so that none of the old tools work. I could modify JFMS to do the double expansion I described above, but I have a feeling that it wouldn't work.
I think it would work. Haven't got to look at the APM of the Roamios greater than 1TB, but the 2TB XL4 has 3907029168 (hex E8 E0 88 B0) sectors. The last sector that can be addressed with a 32bit APM is 4294967295 (hex FF FF FF FF) and the length of the partition can be the same as well. So as long as you start with a 2TB image and if you could modify JMFS to add a partition at the end with max length of 2TB, it would likely work. In fact, if you keep the modification so that it works with S4s and S5s, it might be able to expand S4s beyond 2TB as well.
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