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Old 10-01-2013, 09:08 PM   #1
kbmb
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Missed recording - No Longer in Guide

Roamio Plus, Comcast, no Tuning Adapter.

Did anyone else miss New Girl on Fox tonight? My Tivo says it didn't record because it was "No Longer in Guide".

But, it's clearly listed in the Guide data.

My Season passes for the show before it and after it on the same channel recorded fine. The one before it is padded by 2 minutes, so I saw the beginning of New Girl at the end of that recording.

Any ideas, or anyone seeing this happen?

FYI....the Season Pass for New Girl shows it's scheduled to record next week. And this same season pass recorded the show last week. Thankfully I have Xfinity On Demand and will be able to watch it on that when it shows up.

-Kevin
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Old 10-02-2013, 09:38 AM   #2
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This only other thing I noticed in the History looking back was that occasionally, Seinfeld on TBS, which we have a season pass for, was also No Longer in Guide.

Is this a Roamio bug? Because I clearly see that New Girl last night was in the guide still. Not sure about the Seinfeld episodes since they were further back....but it seems random.

-Kevin
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Old 10-02-2013, 01:03 PM   #3
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Not sure if this is related, but my Roamio Pro AND my Premiere both did not record Sunday's episode of "Boardwalk Empire" - the Roamio's history log said the channel was "not authorized".
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Old 10-02-2013, 02:07 PM   #4
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The "No longer in the guide" issue means there was a data problem. Even if the show was still listed if they changed the episode number or original air date it could screw up the scheduling logic and cause a problem.

The "Not authorized" is a CableCARD problem. Have you verified that your CableCARD is working properly for all 6 tuners in your Pro? There are a lot of people having trouble like this with the 5th and 6th tuner because of old firmware in their cards.
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Old 10-02-2013, 02:13 PM   #5
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The "No longer in the guide" issue means there was a data problem. Even if the show was still listed if they changed the episode number or original air date it could screw up the scheduling logic and cause a problem.

The "Not authorized" is a CableCARD problem. Have you verified that your CableCARD is working properly for all 6 tuners in your Pro? There are a lot of people having trouble like this with the 5th and 6th tuner because of old firmware in their cards.
Thanks. Mine was No longer in Guide message......so looks like just a weird occurrence last night. Thankfully I'm in New England Comcast and haven't had any cablecard tuner issues. I wanted to make sure the No longer in guide wasn't a tuner issue.

Any idea....why would the no longer in guide happen on just my box? I would think it would be widespread if that's the case. I checked with my Dad who has a Tivo HD and his recorded fine.

Hopefully this isn't yet another Roamio bug.

-Kevin
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Old 10-02-2013, 06:14 PM   #6
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Thanks. Mine was No longer in Guide message......so looks like just a weird occurrence last night. Thankfully I'm in New England Comcast and haven't had any cablecard tuner issues. I wanted to make sure the No longer in guide wasn't a tuner issue.

Any idea....why would the no longer in guide happen on just my box? I would think it would be widespread if that's the case. I checked with my Dad who has a Tivo HD and his recorded fine.

Hopefully this isn't yet another Roamio bug.

-Kevin
When did your box make it's last call? Could have been a timing problem. Maybe something changed in the data but it was so close to the record time the scheduler didn't have time to reschedule the "new" episode? If the last call was within an hour or so of the recording that's a possibility.

I've had this same thing happen once or twice over the years. I'm not sure I ever nailed down more then a theory as to why.
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Old 10-02-2013, 06:51 PM   #7
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When did your box make it's last call? Could have been a timing problem. Maybe something changed in the data but it was so close to the record time the scheduler didn't have time to reschedule the "new" episode? If the last call was within an hour or so of the recording that's a possibility.

I've had this same thing happen once or twice over the years. I'm not sure I ever nailed down more then a theory as to why.
Not sure.....checking it now shows it last connected today 10/2.

What's weird is.....I don't think there was a change because it's always in that time slot and it started at the correct time because my prior program showed it started then.

Thanks for the info......for now I'll chalk it up to a random occurrence.

-Kevin
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Old 10-02-2013, 07:10 PM   #8
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What's weird is.....I don't think there was a change because it's always in that time slot and it started at the correct time because my prior program showed it started then.
It doesn't have to change time slots. If they change the name or the episode number in the data then to TiVo it's a different episode. TiVo's scheduling logic does not consider time slots at all. In fact it doesn't even consider channel numbers. It's based on the station call sign and the show ID. Other then that it's based purely on the data matching the recording parameters.

Like I said I've had it happen a few times over the years. The whole call/data thing is just a theory. There could be some other reason and they just don't have a description for it so they use the wrong one for the Recording History.
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Old 10-02-2013, 07:49 PM   #9
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Ok, it's happening again right now. I checked tonight at 8pm and it was setup to record on ABC

The Middle
Back in the Game
Modern Family

It recorded the Middle and it skipped Back in the Game. Why? No longer listed in the guide.

I'M WATCHING THE SHOW RIGHT NOW.

Seriously Tivo......what's up? This is basically making this $400 machine worthless.

-Kevin
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Old 10-02-2013, 07:51 PM   #10
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That's weird. And there is no conflict right? Not even from padding?
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Old 10-02-2013, 08:03 PM   #11
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That's weird. And there is no conflict right? Not even from padding?
Nope....tonight I only had this scheduled:

All passes with 2 minutes padding on the end

The Middle - ABC - 8-8:30
Back in the Game - ABC - 8:30-9:00
Modern Family - ABC - 9:00 - 9:31
Law and Order SVU - NBC - 9:00 - 10:00
Super Fun Night - ABC - 9:31 - 10:00
The Bridge - FX - 10:00 - 11:00
It's Always Sunny - FXX - 10:00 - 10:30
The League - FXX - 10:30 - 11:00

As I sit here and it hits 9pm - I see it just started recording Law and Order and Modern Family.

So as you can see.....no tuner issues with overlapping recordings.....and as far as I know I don't have any of the cablecard issues....never had. I have the Moto cards in Comcast with the correct firmware.

I posted on Tivo forums but don't really expect to here anything.

Starting to get concerned now that I can't trust the Roamio. Thank God for the built in Xfinity on Demand! I'd hate to think I paid $400 for an Xfinity streaming box

-Kevin
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Old 10-02-2013, 08:19 PM   #12
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Also to clarify, I viewed my todo list at 8pm tonight and Back in the game was listed to record.

-Kevin
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Old 10-02-2013, 08:24 PM   #13
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You know I saw something similar once last year with my Premiere. It turned out there was some problem with the tuning adapter, but the message in the Recording History was totally wrong. After I rebooted the TA and the TiVo I never saw it again. Long shot, but you may want to try it once everything is done recording (or not) tonight.
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Old 10-02-2013, 08:39 PM   #14
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You know I saw something similar once last year with my Premiere. It turned out there was some problem with the tuning adapter, but the message in the Recording History was totally wrong. After I rebooted the TA and the TiVo I never saw it again. Long shot, but you may want to try it once everything is done recording (or not) tonight.
No TA here, but I'll give a reboot a shot.

Here's something weird I just noticed.

So it's recording Modern Family on ABC. That was scheduled for 9:00 - 9:31 and then the season pass adds 2 minutes on the end, so the recording should stop at 9:33.

So at 9:31, I pull up the Info bar. Where I would think Tivo should have used another tuner to switch to ABC and start recording Super Fun Night from 9:31 - 10:00....it didn't. The Info box showed Super Fun Night as the program name being recorded.

So I went to My Recordings......no Super Fun night shown. Instead it's showing Modern Family still recording (due to the padding).

9:33 rolls around, when Modern Family is scheduled to stop....and it does. Then Tivo adds Super Fun night to the Now Playing list......but from it's scheduled time of 9:31, meaning when I view the recording, I see it from 9:31.

I'm wondering if this has something to do with padding back to back recordings on the same channel.

Shouldn't the Tivo have used 2 tuners both on ABC to get both those shows?

I also have reported that back to back audio/video glitch.

I do have Overlap protection on as well.

-Kevin
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Old 10-02-2013, 09:08 PM   #15
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Ok not sure if this honestly has again to do with the No Longer in Guide issue....but I did a test on the overlap issue.

I started recording Criminal Minds....and padded it for 2 minutes. I set CSI, the show on the same after it to record.

Sure enough.....when 10:00 rolled around.....the Now Playing only showed Criminal Minds. Once 10:02 hit, CSI showed up. Looking at the recordings, Criminal Minds was the full 1 hour 2 minutes and CSI started on time.

I'm thinking, not sure if this is new, Tivo is trying to save a tuner in back to back recordings with padding. So it keeps the original recording going and then at the pad cutoff time, it does some magic where it stops the original and continues with the new.

This would also explain why we are seeing the audio/video glitch at around the time the recording switches over.

Again, don't think this has anything to do with the no longer in guide issue. Any ideas on whether this is normal behavior?

-Kevin
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Old 10-02-2013, 09:57 PM   #16
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Ok not sure if this honestly has again to do with the No Longer in Guide issue....but I did a test on the overlap issue.

I started recording Criminal Minds....and padded it for 2 minutes. I set CSI, the show on the same after it to record.

Sure enough.....when 10:00 rolled around.....the Now Playing only showed Criminal Minds. Once 10:02 hit, CSI showed up. Looking at the recordings, Criminal Minds was the full 1 hour 2 minutes and CSI started on time.


I'm thinking, not sure if this is new, Tivo is trying to save a tuner in back to back recordings with padding. So it keeps the original recording going and then at the pad cutoff time, it does some magic where it stops the original and continues with the new.

This would also explain why we are seeing the audio/video glitch at around the time the recording switches over.

Again, don't think this has anything to do with the no longer in guide issue. Any ideas on whether this is normal behavior?

-Kevin
It also happened to me tonight. I've missed a few recordings, so I've gone super-paranoid and started watching start times. I had two shows that overlapped tonight on ABC, one end-padded by 2 mins, the other pre-padded by 1 min. I watched to see what happened. At 8:30 (Central), the 8:00 show is still recording, and the 8:30 IS NOT! Getting nervous, but I keep watching. I check the To-Do List, the 8:30 recording is still there, and not showing that it's recording (it's 8:31 by now). It's also NOT in the Now Playing.

When the post-pad finally runs out at 8:32, the first recording ends, the second recording shows up, and it shows up all the way back to 8:29.

And it only uses one tuner (I was flipping along all 6 tuners, and it never used a 2nd tuner).

So it all worked out, but it did it on one tuner. And it shows a little wonky until the first recording ends, since it doesn't show the 2nd recording until the first ends.

This raises the question, does it truly only use 1 tuner? So could you have more than six recordings going at once if at least two of them are overlapped on the same channel?

VERY different TiVo behavior.
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Old 10-02-2013, 10:00 PM   #17
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It also happened to me tonight. I've missed a few recordings, so I've gone super-paranoid and started watching start times. I had two shows that overlapped tonight on ABC, one end-padded by 2 mins, the other pre-padded by 1 min. I watched to see what happened. At 8:30 (Central), the 8:00 show is still recording, and the 8:30 IS NOT! Getting nervous, but I keep watching. I check the To-Do List, the 8:30 recording is still there, and not showing that it's recording (it's 8:31 by now). It's also NOT in the Now Playing.

When the post-pad finally runs out at 8:32, the first recording ends, the second recording shows up, and it shows up all the way back to 8:29.

And it only uses one tuner (I was flipping along all 6 tuners, and it never used a 2nd tuner).

So it all worked out, but it did it on one tuner. And it shows a little wonky until the first recording ends, since it doesn't show the 2nd recording until the first ends.

This raises the question, does it truly only use 1 tuner? So could you have more than six recordings going at once if at least two of them are overlapped on the same channel?

VERY different TiVo behavior.
Yup, that's basically what I see. I saw it again with Sunny and The League on FXX tonight.

Wondering if Tivo is doing something fancy with one tuner. Not sure it has anything to do with my No Longer in Guide issue.....but it might?

Do you have Overlap protection on?

-Kevin
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Old 10-02-2013, 10:57 PM   #18
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Repeated guided setup per Tivo, although I'm sure this is a standard response from them. Figured it couldn't hurt.....we'll see if it helps with the missed recording no longer in guide.

-Kevin
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Old 10-03-2013, 12:49 AM   #19
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Ok not sure if this honestly has again to do with the No Longer in Guide issue....but I did a test on the overlap issue.

I started recording Criminal Minds....and padded it for 2 minutes. I set CSI, the show on the same after it to record.

Sure enough.....when 10:00 rolled around.....the Now Playing only showed Criminal Minds. Once 10:02 hit, CSI showed up. Looking at the recordings, Criminal Minds was the full 1 hour 2 minutes and CSI started on time.

I'm thinking, not sure if this is new, Tivo is trying to save a tuner in back to back recordings with padding. So it keeps the original recording going and then at the pad cutoff time, it does some magic where it stops the original and continues with the new.

This would also explain why we are seeing the audio/video glitch at around the time the recording switches over.

Again, don't think this has anything to do with the no longer in guide issue. Any ideas on whether this is normal behavior?

-Kevin
I've seen this as well. I think they are working on a feature that shares data between overlapping shows on the same channel. But it seems to have a few bugs still. Cool feature though if they can get it working 100%.
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Old 10-03-2013, 09:20 AM   #20
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My Roamio Plus did not record Modern Family last night due to the "no longer in guide" issue. I also had Back in the Game recording on ABC prior with a 2-minute end time pad (MF had a 1-min start time pad). Seems like the 2nd recording is always the one that fails.

Hopefully, TiVo knows about this issue and is working on it. Having to monitor for missed recordings (and then obtain them another way) is kind of annoying.
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Old 10-03-2013, 09:26 AM   #21
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My Roamio Plus did not record Modern Family last night due to the "no longer in guide" issue. I also had Back in the Game recording on ABC prior with a 2-minute end time pad (MF had a 1-min start time pad). Seems like the 2nd recording is always the one that fails.

Hopefully, TiVo knows about this issue and is working on it. Having to monitor for missed recordings (and then obtain them another way) is kind of annoying.
That's great to hear Not that you missed a recording of course, but that someone else is seeing the behavior.

Yes, frustrating that we have to baby sit our Tivos right now to make sure programs record.

I chatted with Tivo last night and they recommended Repeating Guided Setup to see if that helps. I'm sure that's a common first step to troubleshooting, but I gave it a shot anyway. Will see what happens tonight.

In my case, the first night it was the 3rd show back to back that was missed.
Last night it was the second.

Do you have Overlap protection on?

I tweeted to Tivo Margaret but haven't heard. Hoping someone there knows it's an issue.

I figure as a last resort I might have to dump all the 2 minute padding on all season passes to see if that helps. I'll probably do that if I get another missed recording.

-Kevin
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Old 10-03-2013, 10:05 AM   #22
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That's great to hear Not that you missed a recording of course, but that someone else is seeing the behavior.

Yes, frustrating that we have to baby sit our Tivos right now to make sure programs record.

I chatted with Tivo last night and they recommended Repeating Guided Setup to see if that helps. I'm sure that's a common first step to troubleshooting, but I gave it a shot anyway. Will see what happens tonight.

In my case, the first night it was the 3rd show back to back that was missed.
Last night it was the second.

Do you have Overlap protection on?

I tweeted to Tivo Margaret but haven't heard. Hoping someone there knows it's an issue.

I figure as a last resort I might have to dump all the 2 minute padding on all season passes to see if that helps. I'll probably do that if I get another missed recording.

-Kevin
Nope, no overlap protection for me. Shouldn't really be an issue with 6 tuners these days, though. In fact, if this whole missing recording bug was created by TiVo attempting to use 1 tuner for 2 overlapping shows, I'd rather just have them "waste" the 2 tuners. At least until the bugs are worked out.

Was your Roamio in standby when the issue occurred? Mine happened to be, since I was using a Mini only at the time.
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Old 10-03-2013, 10:07 AM   #23
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Nope, no overlap protection for me. Shouldn't really be an issue with 6 tuners these days, though. In fact, if this whole missing recording bug was created by TiVo attempting to use 1 tuner for 2 overlapping shows, I'd rather just have them "waste" the 2 tuners. At least until the bugs are worked out.

Was your Roamio in standby when the issue occurred? Mine happened to be, since I was using a Mini only at the time.
I do have Overlap protection on.....I guess mainly because I do have rare cases where with padding at a given time I might need 7 tuners, so I make sure the shows I don't care about clipping are at the bottom of the list (my wife's shows )

I don't ever use standby.

-Kevin
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Old 10-03-2013, 10:51 AM   #24
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I figure as a last resort I might have to dump all the 2 minute padding on all season passes to see if that helps. I'll probably do that if I get another missed recording
Wouldn't you only need to pad the last show? If the first show cuts off a minute early, that minute will be on the front of the 2nd show recording, right? Assuming we're talking about two or three shows in a row on the same channel.

Sure, the TiVo should know how to do the right thing -- but maybe this would help until TiVo fixes this bug.
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Old 10-03-2013, 10:54 AM   #25
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Wouldn't you only need to pad the last show? If the first show cuts off a minute early, that minute will be on the front of the 2nd show recording, right? Assuming we're talking about two or three shows in a row on the same channel.

Sure, the TiVo should know how to do the right thing -- but maybe this would help until TiVo fixes this bug.
In theory yes.....the only problem is when/if the networks start shifting shows around in different time slots, or for example, only 3 of the 4 shows are new in a certain week.

It doesn't happen often, but we have seen it.

One of the main reasons I upgraded from a 2 tuner HD to the Roamio Plus was the thought that I could pad everything and never worry about it again. Generally we don't record that many shows that padding would cause an issue (although on Tuesdays it has because of the padding).

I'm going to watch tonights shows carefully and if any are missed, I'll dump all the paddings (except the last show) and see if that helps.

-Kevin
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Old 10-03-2013, 12:54 PM   #26
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For those of you have issues with Season Passes not recording. Did you use tivo.com/spm to move the Season Pass from one TiVo to another? If so, I'd be curious if deleting the Season Pass and getting a new one fixes the problem.

--Margret
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Old 10-03-2013, 12:56 PM   #27
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For those of you have issues with Season Passes not recording. Did you use tivo.com/spm to move the Season Pass from one TiVo to another? If so, I'd be curious if deleting the Season Pass and getting a new one fixes the problem.

--Margret
Yes, I did use the online season pass manager to transfer these from my TivoHD to the Roamio.

However, it's not a complete failure for the season passes. For example, New Girl for me recorded the week prior.....just this week it was shown No Longer in Guide.

Back in the game also recorded the week prior just fine. This week, even though it was in the Todo list at 8pm.....it didn't record at 8:30.

-Kevin
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Old 10-03-2013, 01:14 PM   #28
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For those of you have issues with Season Passes not recording. Did you use tivo.com/spm to move the Season Pass from one TiVo to another? If so, I'd be curious if deleting the Season Pass and getting a new one fixes the problem.

--Margret
No, I did not. And the show had recorded fine in prior weeks.
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Old 10-03-2013, 01:17 PM   #29
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No, I did not. And the show had recorded fine in prior weeks.
Did you manually enter the season passes from scratch on the Roamio, or did you use something like kttmg to transfer them?

-Kevin
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Old 10-03-2013, 01:27 PM   #30
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I can have the engineers look at a few of these reports. Here is what you'll need to do:

1. Look at the To Do List and History for shows that will and will NOT record for a specific period of time (like tonight). Take pictures of these screens.

2. After the period of time has passed, see if what TiVo said it was going to do, and what it actually did, were the same. If not, take more photos to illustrate how what happened is different from what was expected.

3. Email me, with the subject: "Missed Recording - No Longer in Guide" and include your TSN and a complete description (with photos and channel information) of the problem. Also include:
- your cable company
- your zip code
- whether you have a tuning adapter
- how you originally scheduled the Season Pass (directly from the Roamio UI, using tivo.com/spm to move it from a Premiere, using the iOS app, using TiVo's web site, etc.)
to margret@tivo.com

Thanks!
--Margret
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