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Old 09-26-2013, 09:00 PM   #181
Austin Bike
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Everyone keeps talking about phones, but the real market for stream is tablets, not phones.

And don't look at carrier activations, the primary access is going to be wifi. None of the 5 tablets (ios and android) in my house have cellular, all are wifi only.

Look first at tablets, phones are a secondary market. Some people will use phones, but the real use case is tablet.
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Old 09-26-2013, 10:30 PM   #182
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Well if Stream for Android is delayed until Q1 2014, at least that will allow millions more Android tablets to get in peoples hands with Android 4.2 and higher. SInce the Amazon Kindle HDX tablets will be out for the holidays as well as the 2nd gen Nexus 7 which is already out. Between both of those that will add many millions more Android tablets out in the wild.
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Old 09-27-2013, 12:51 PM   #183
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Post your data. This goes against everything I've ever read. I am pretty sure you're either making things up or you don't know how to read data.

I mean, I just went and googled it... I looked for US only data, and it says you're wrong.

And some gross percent of iPhone activations are people updating older iPhones. Apple cannibalizes itself whereas Android continues to grab the first-time smart phone buyers on a massive scale.

So, by all means, if you have data that says otherwise, post it.

I'm pretty sure I've already posted it in this thread. Go back and look at it. Or google the financial results of any of the carriers in the USA for the last year. iOS is outselling Android in the United States. This is a fact.

I'd go get new links but I'm pretty sure that arguing with someone who has such a childish disdain for apple would be a colossal waste of my time. It wouldn't matter what I said, or what I posted or what the facts are. You'll spin whatever information you receive until it matches up with whatever twisted version of reality you've crafted to make you feel better about your purchasing decisions.
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Old 09-28-2013, 07:11 PM   #184
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Everyone keeps talking about phones, but the real market for stream is tablets, not phones. Look first at tablets, phones are a secondary market. Some people will use phones, but the real use case is tablet.
Maybe that's your "real" use case... but it's not my primary usage scenario. Then again, my phone is a Galaxy Note 2 - with a much larger screen than an iPhone and I always have it with me. Home, work, gym, Starbucks, etc. (We've unloaded two iPad 3s and a Mini, only keeping the Kindle Fire HD around due to its low resale value.)
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Old 10-02-2013, 04:29 PM   #185
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Maybe that's your "real" use case... but it's not my primary usage scenario. Then again, my phone is a Galaxy Note 2 - with a much larger screen than an iPhone and I always have it with me. Home, work, gym, Starbucks, etc. (We've unloaded two iPad 3s and a Mini, only keeping the Kindle Fire HD around due to its low resale value.)

Same here. I'm more likely to use a smartphone than a tablet for streaming. Watching anything on the iPad is truly the last resort in my home.
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Old 10-02-2013, 07:16 PM   #186
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And I'm betting phones become much more popular as a Stream target once outside the home streaming goes live.
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Old 10-02-2013, 09:10 PM   #187
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Cool

There is no argument that phones are a use case. My comment was about primary and secondary. I have both and 90% is tablet, 10% phone.

Based on screen sizes I would bet this is the case with TiVo ( I know it is close to that with the streaming services).

I use my phone to watch short shows from aus>dfw but for most of my viewing I will pull out the tablet.

As phone screens get larger and tablets get smaller, this will change, but for now the tablet has a primary advantage over phones. That is not to say that people don't use phones, just that for the majority of users, it is a tablet. For now.
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Old 10-03-2013, 09:17 AM   #188
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Some Tablets are already too small. They have some low end ones at 5" which is already phone size territory. Seven inches for tablets is about the smallest I would want for a tablet. While 5" is about the largest I would want for a phone.
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Old 10-03-2013, 10:44 AM   #189
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I'm pretty sure I've already posted it in this thread. Go back and look at it. Or google the financial results of any of the carriers in the USA for the last year. iOS is outselling Android in the United States. This is a fact.

I'd go get new links but I'm pretty sure that arguing with someone who has such a childish disdain for apple would be a colossal waste of my time. It wouldn't matter what I said, or what I posted or what the facts are. You'll spin whatever information you receive until it matches up with whatever twisted version of reality you've crafted to make you feel better about your purchasing decisions.

I've googled it. I've seen the numbers. Until you provide me a link, you're wrong. It's that simple.

"Childish disdain?" Apple is an awful company. I am not sure how you can defend their business practices. They have outrageous profit margins, they lock people in to their eco system and block out competitors using a mixture of rules preventing anyone on their app store from competing with them and preventing third party apps from sideloading on to the OS. Their developer support is offensively bad and their platform/language is awful. They engage in price fixing. They side with their suppliers and providers over their users anytime the two come in to conflict (book publishers are the prime example). They are the opposite of what a technology company should be. Anyone with an ounce of knowledge about their business side abandons them immediately. Leaving only people too weak or apathetic to switch left behind.

This is not "ugh, apple, grody." I don't do business with companies that want to **** me. Maybe you do. If that's your thing, by all means, take it wherever you like, but don't blame me for not being in to that.
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Old 10-03-2013, 10:46 AM   #190
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The reason Android is growing faster is NOT because it's better it's because it's free and open source. This is the same reason why developing for it is a nightmare. There are a million different hardware configurations running int and almost as many software variations to match.

Apple not only locks down the hardware and limits the diversification, but they pretty much insure that everyone is running the latest OS or at worst 1 version back. This may seem less consumer friendly, providing less choices, less customization and creating sort of a price fix, but it's much, much, more developer friendly.

Looking at this from a developer perspective you must see why TiVo chose iOS first. As to why it's taking so long to deploy for Android... that I have no idea.
I am a developer. I don't have to look at it form a developers perspective.

Developing for a single Android device is a million times easier than developing for a single iOS device.

Of course, the complexity is the variety of android devices.

There is universal disdain, behind the scenes, for iOS developers for the apple market, language and review process.
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Old 10-03-2013, 10:49 AM   #191
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The cool kids laughed at you in high school? You have a fruit allergy?
Hahahahah yeah, that must be it. You got me.

2013, the year when someone suggested that Apple was the OS for the "cool kids." Haahhahahahahaha.... whew.

I bet you just discovered your first meme and posted it to your facebook. You're so hip. Have you seen the girl twerking and catching fire?!? OMG YOU HAVE TO SEE IT, IT IS SO FUNNY OMGLOLBBQWTF!
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Old 10-03-2013, 01:48 PM   #192
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What the heck does OMGLOLBBQWTF mean?
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Old 10-03-2013, 04:10 PM   #193
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There seems to be a lot of emotion here and people making judgmental statements.

What people don't grasp is that companies make decisions based on the addressable market and where they think they can have the biggest impact. That is what tivo did. Their problem was not in doing apple first, it was in not following up with the android product. Since their original decision the market has shifted. That doesn't make their first decision wrong, but it accentuates the problem with missing the second window. Blockbuster video is a great example of this. Moved from VHS to DVD but the real market was shifting to streaming and they lost the opportunity.

As for those that are wedded to one platform and denigrate the other, there is room for all of them in the market, and competition is good. Android is what it is because it had to beat the incumbent. iOS will either get better or die. But the market will decide that. And not how people here are describing it.

These are platforms, not religions and we need to treat them that way. There is room for all of them. To say that one is right and the other is wrong shows either a lack of understanding or a lack of maturity. Or both.

As for apple making a lot of profit, um, that is why they are in business. We should celebrate profit. If tivo doesn't have enough of it, it will be gone.
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Old 10-03-2013, 05:52 PM   #194
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What the heck does OMGLOLBBQWTF mean?
Oh My God, Laugh Out Loud, Bar-B-Que, What The F*ck.

Not sure about the BBQ part, that was just my best guess.
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Old 10-03-2013, 07:05 PM   #195
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That stuff always looks like gibberish to me.
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Old 10-04-2013, 11:39 AM   #196
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I've googled it. I've seen the numbers. Until you provide me a link, you're wrong. It's that simple.

"Childish disdain?" Apple is an awful company. I am not sure how you can defend their business practices. They have outrageous profit margins, they lock people in to their eco system and block out competitors using a mixture of rules preventing anyone on their app store from competing with them and preventing third party apps from sideloading on to the OS. Their developer support is offensively bad and their platform/language is awful. They engage in price fixing. They side with their suppliers and providers over their users anytime the two come in to conflict (book publishers are the prime example). They are the opposite of what a technology company should be. Anyone with an ounce of knowledge about their business side abandons them immediately. Leaving only people too weak or apathetic to switch left behind.

This is not "ugh, apple, grody." I don't do business with companies that want to **** me. Maybe you do. If that's your thing, by all means, take it wherever you like, but don't blame me for not being in to that.

My time would be better spent talking about this stuff with a stapler than trying to have a reasonable conversation with someone as entrenched in their bizzaro thinking as you are.

Have a nice day living in the weird fantasy world you've crafted in your mind. It sounds like a pretty interesting place.
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Old 10-04-2013, 04:07 PM   #197
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Back to the grown up conversation...

We only use stream with our phones. We recently moved and rather than put a TV in the kitchen, we just use our phones. Or rather, my wife does. She uses it quite a bit all over the house, always on her phone. I honestly never use TiVo stream at all.

I like to sit down and watch a show from start to finish and my wife is more of "always have some sort of thing on in the background" kind of person.
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Old 10-04-2013, 05:29 PM   #198
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What people don't grasp is that companies make decisions based on the addressable market and where they think they can have the biggest impact. That is what tivo did. Their problem was not in doing apple first, it was in not following up with the android product. Since their original decision the market has shifted. That doesn't make their first decision wrong, but it accentuates the problem with missing the second window
Exactly. When this thread started a year ago them choosing Apple first made perfect sense. Especially since the product had been in development for a year prior to that.

However at the time the assumption was that it was going to take them about 6 months or so to get Android support working. With this new news that Android support might be delayed to Q1 2014 my opinion has changed. They've taken way too long and now Android users have the right to be upset.
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Old 10-12-2013, 04:51 PM   #199
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my free stream is waiting in the box.
getting a nexus 10 v2 hopefully this month.
would be nice if I could tivo on it....
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Old 10-14-2013, 12:58 PM   #200
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my free stream is waiting in the box.
getting a nexus 10 v2 hopefully this month.
would be nice if I could tivo on it....
Are the prices still supposed to be kind of high with the Nexus 10?
This gen I picked up the new Nexus 7 and plan to get the 8.9" FireHDX. But if the nexus 10 prices comes in low, then I might get that instead.
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Old 10-17-2013, 03:56 PM   #201
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Post your data. This goes against everything I've ever read. I am pretty sure you're either making things up or you don't know how to read data.

I mean, I just went and googled it... I looked for US only data, and it says you're wrong.

And some gross percent of iPhone activations are people updating older iPhones. Apple cannibalizes itself whereas Android continues to grab the first-time smart phone buyers on a massive scale.

So, by all means, if you have data that says otherwise, post it.
http://allthingsd.com/20131017/veriz...third-quarter/

I can't believe I'm bothering, but here's data from Verizon's financial report for the quarter. 51% of all smartphone activations were iPhones. Up 26% from the same quarter last year and they were supply constrained.

This isn't some goofball survey from some analytics firm no one has ever heard of. These are real numbers from the largest carrier on the planet.

The last quarter was the same. All of the big carriers in the states saw iPhone sales higher than Android. AT&T was like 70% iOS and 30% other.
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Old 10-17-2013, 04:39 PM   #202
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http://allthingsd.com/20131017/veriz...third-quarter/

I can't believe I'm bothering, but here's data from Verizon's financial report for the quarter. 51% of all smartphone activations were iPhones. Up 26% from the same quarter last year and they were supply constrained.

This isn't some goofball survey from some analytics firm no one has ever heard of. These are real numbers from the largest carrier on the planet.

The last quarter was the same. All of the big carriers in the states saw iPhone sales higher than Android. AT&T was like 70% iOS and 30% other.
Wasn't the large percenatge of apple phones because of the release of the new model? What is the percentage of Apple phones activated during a quarter when there isn't a new product.
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Old 10-18-2013, 09:19 AM   #203
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Wasn't the large percenatge of apple phones because of the release of the new model?
Ummm, you do realize that they only released the new models 10 days before the end of the quarter, don't you?
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Old 10-18-2013, 09:37 AM   #204
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Ummm, you do realize that they only released the new models 10 days before the end of the quarter, don't you?
Yes, and they set sales records. In just the first few days they sold nine million iPhones. Which means all those phones were getting activated at the end of the quarter. I would think way more than normal. But I did not see what their normal iPhone activations were for each quarter in the article. So maybe that is still a normal number of activations or it is much higher than normal? They did mention activations from a year ago, but that would have also been when a new model was released last year. It didn't show what the average activations are for a quarter.
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Old 10-18-2013, 03:36 PM   #205
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I don't have the links, but the previous quarter was roughly the same.

I think on Verizon it was 50% iPhone, 45% Android, 5% other.

And on AT&T it was 70% iPhone.

Sprint was less than 50% iPhone and T Mobile had their biggest sales quarter ever in when they launched the iPhone on their network.
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Old 10-18-2013, 03:46 PM   #206
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http://www.theverge.com/2013/7/18/45...ngs-financials

HEre's Verizon. It looks like AT&T didn't announce the numbers last quarter. I think it was two quarters ago when they hit 70%. I'm not sure. Not motivated to spend more than 3 minutes looking. The iPhone has been doing a lot better in the states since they expanded to all of the carriers.

I think what's happening is that a lot of people who didn't want to switch to AT&T and bought bad early generation Android phones are switching over when their contracts are up.

http://bgr.com/2013/04/25/iphone-mar...013-us-464944/

The bottom line is that both platforms are healthy and thriving and that's a good thing.
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Old 10-21-2013, 05:21 PM   #207
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Another interesting blog post on this topic, focus is on start-ups, but much info carries over to established companies.

http://stevecheney.com/why-android-first-is-a-myth/
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Old 10-22-2013, 07:55 AM   #208
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Great article. Clearly sums up everything I have been saying to date. It does not let TiVo off the hook for taking so long on android support but clearly lays out why iOS was first. And probably always will be.
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Old 10-22-2013, 01:23 PM   #209
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Another interesting blog post on this topic, focus is on start-ups, but much info carries over to established companies.

http://stevecheney.com/why-android-first-is-a-myth/
Interesting article. However, he seems to have failed some basic research. His point about Pinterest not having Windows Phone Apps is incorrect, and his comment about Instagram is currently correct -- for the next few weeks. An app is expected soon.

That being said, I agree that for infant companies that are struggling to even survive past 12 months, picking a single OS (iOS or Android) and doing it amazingly is the goal. If it truly is cheaper for a new company to develop an iOS app first, then it makes sense to use resources wisely. Tivo has been around for 15 years and has hundreds of employees. Tivo doesn't get to use those excuses that baby companies can cling to.

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Old 10-22-2013, 03:56 PM   #210
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Tivo has been around for 15 years and has hundreds of employees. Tivo doesn't get to use those excuses that baby companies can cling to.
TiVo didn't write the iOS app. They farmed it out to a small third party company called Duff Research. That company was acquired by Paypal this past March.

http://www.ecommercebytes.com/cab/abn/y13/m03/i13/s06
http://www.duffresearch.com/services/
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