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Old 03-26-2013, 10:20 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post
He's not trying to use a card to get encrypted channels, just the maps. There's nothing the cableCo is out for by providing the maps for local channels in the clear.
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Originally Posted by lessd View Post
That may be what you think, but the cable co head end will not map any cable card until it is registered with the head end than paired (after the card is registered with the cable co the mapping may take place before it is paired), after that if you put that card into another cable card device the map will stay in the cable card letting you get the correct non encrypted channels, but as I said if within 30 to 60 days the card does not get any refresh command from the head end it will shut down. If the person you get the card from is in your area so the card is mapped to your area, and that seller does not report a lost cable card and keeps paying for the card it will work, not too likely to happen that way.
less, I appreciate what you're saying. This post in my other thread seems to indicate otherwise, however. The moto card didn't work, but the SA card seems to have worked (for the most part). You might also find it interesting that I looked up the phone number that the SA card referenced and it was for Comcast in Baltimore, MD.. I'm on Knology in Alabama. Not even the same cable company, much less my region. The card received a firmware update, and the channel map for most of the channels. I would certainly not call it perfect, but I would put it squarely between the two camps of "it will work fine" and "it will do nothing." There are certainly more variables at play here than I care to deal with.. It may be that you speaking from your experience is just as valid as me speaking from mine, if we're on different cable networks. If you're speaking only on theoreticals, then this may be evidence to change your mind.. I'm not wanting an argument, I just wanted to share my findings..

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Old 03-28-2013, 02:29 PM   #92
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less, I appreciate what you're saying. This post in my other thread seems to indicate otherwise, however. The moto card didn't work, but the SA card seems to have worked (for the most part). You might also find it interesting that I looked up the phone number that the SA card referenced and it was for Comcast in Baltimore, MD.. I'm on Knology in Alabama. Not even the same cable company, much less my region. The card received a firmware update, and the channel map for most of the channels. I would certainly not call it perfect, but I would put it squarely between the two camps of "it will work fine" and "it will do nothing." There are certainly more variables at play here than I care to deal with.. It may be that you speaking from your experience is just as valid as me speaking from mine, if we're on different cable networks. If you're speaking only on theoreticals, then this may be evidence to change your mind.. I'm not wanting an argument, I just wanted to share my findings..

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I am just talking about Comcast in the Hartford CT area, no knowledge about any other system, if your card works for more than 60 days in the state it is in, please let us know. The idea of the cable cards was to control each cable outlet and pair each card to one piece of equipment, (so one could not move a card from room to room each room having its own cable equipment like a TV). Some cable co don't even require pairing but I think all MSO require the registration of each card. A friend sent me a TiVo (from out of my state) to fix and he did not take out the activated cable card, it was the same model as my cards but would not work on my cable system to get any channels, just keep saying something like trying to find channels, I left it that way for a few hours but nothing.
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Old 03-28-2013, 07:14 PM   #93
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Cable Cards shouldn't work across systems.
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Old 06-25-2013, 04:02 PM   #94
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I finally received a follow-up call from Verizon. It was a very short and sweet call. They simply said, we are waiving the fee for both of your CableCards. There was no mention of my complaint. So, I'm not sure if they got it from my post to the Verizon discussion board or my complaint to the FCC that the original rep insisted didn't cover them.

Despite my belief that the rule requires them to discount the package the cost of the free set-top box, I graciously accepted... and I'm running.
This is an old-ish thread, looking for updates. I recently became aware and signed up for the Verizon 200GC + FreeDVR for 12 months deal, with the intent of bringing my own TiVoHD and getting a 20/month discount off of the service. Verizon balked in much the same way as they did with Jerry. Just got a form letter today from Verizon saying that the DVR wasn't really bundled. In my followup, I'm planning to ask if I can stop by and pick up a free DVR without subscribing to the service, if it is not a part of the bundle?

Has anyone gotten the full benefit of the part 76 rules yet?

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Old 09-28-2013, 02:38 PM   #95
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In my followup, I'm planning to ask if I can stop by and pick up a free DVR without subscribing to the service, if it is not a part of the bundle?
You can pickup an HD box or an SD box without service, but they will charge for it. Your first SD box is free with installation, but if you make the mistake of returning it (like I did) they will charge you if you ever want another SD box. I only returned mine because they claimed they'd give me an HD box free of charge but someone called me back within a week to rescind that offer.
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Old 09-28-2013, 02:40 PM   #96
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Verizon is now charging $5/month per card, so it now costs $10 to operate a Series3. Outrageous!!

I started a complaint thread at Verizon's forums. Please click on the link, "vote" and post your dismay so our voices can be heard.

http://forums.verizon.com/t5/Share-Y...e/idi-p/630499

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Old 09-28-2013, 05:17 PM   #97
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Verizon is now charging $5/month per card, so it now costs $10 to operate a Series3. Outrageous!!

I started a complaint thread at Verizon's forums. Please click on the link, "vote" and post your dismay so our voices can be heard.

http://forums.verizon.com/t5/Share-Y...e/idi-p/630499
I'm glad it wasn't $5 several years ago. I used to pay FiOS $24 a month for cable cards when I used eight of them when I had S3 boxes.

Now I'm down to one cable card so they only get $5 from a month from me in cable card fees.

EDIT: I just looked at the post on the Verizon forums. It says you payed $500 for a lifetime subscription. Lifetime service was $400 back then or $300 with the MSD. Although I paid $200 for lifetime on a couple of my S3 boxes and $300 for another.

FIOS has always charged per cable card. I don't see why they would suddenly change this now. Especially when it would affect such a small amount of users. When I got FiOS in Summer 2007 I needed two cable cards for each OLED S3 I owned. And paid per cable card That was their policy then, and it is still their policy today.
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Old 09-28-2013, 06:15 PM   #98
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EDIT: I just looked at the post on the Verizon forums. It says you payed $500 for a lifetime subscription. Lifetime service was $400 back then or $300 with the MSD.
I'll correct that figure.

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FIOS has always charged per cable card. I don't see why they would suddenly change this now. Especially when it would affect such a small amount of users. When I got FiOS in Summer 2007 I needed two cable cards for each OLED S3 I owned. And paid per cable card That was their policy then, and it is still their policy today.
All the more reason to appease the customer, no? It's not like making this adjustment would adversely impact their revenue or anything, but it would make a big difference in customer satisfaction. Paying $10 in cablecard fees just to operate a single DVR box is absurd.
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Old 09-30-2013, 04:46 PM   #99
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All the more reason to appease the customer, no? It's not like making this adjustment would adversely impact their revenue or anything, but it would make a big difference in customer satisfaction. Paying $10 in cablecard fees just to operate a single DVR box is absurd.
Honestly, it's more absurd that the Series 3 boxes require two cable cards.

But yes, I agree that $5 a month for a cable card is outlandish. I just got a Roamio and a new cable card (needed a new one as old ones had issues with HBO) so I'm down to one cable card. Prior to this I had the same 2 cards for about 4.5 years. I paid them about $216 plus tax for each card at $4 a month. I just now turned them in when I got the Roamio. I think Verizon did very well on my cards.
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Old 10-01-2013, 07:21 AM   #100
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Honestly, it's more absurd that the Series 3 boxes require two cable cards.
No, what's absurd is that people are bitching about technology that didn't exist. Let's go over this one last time so you can understand it. The S3 was developed before multi-stream cards were available so Tivo had to use single stream cards. They had no other choice, period. This is a hardware design issue and can't be upgraded with a software fix. The Tivo HD and later models were introduced after multi-stream cards became available, hence the reason they only use a single card.

If you want to use both tuners in a S3 OLED Tivo then you have to use two cards. This is not an option. If you don't like it, get a different Tivo.
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Old 10-01-2013, 10:37 AM   #101
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No, what's absurd is that people are bitching about technology that didn't exist. Let's go over this one last time so you can understand it. The S3 was developed before multi-stream cards were available so Tivo had to use single stream cards. They had no other choice, period. This is a hardware design issue and can't be upgraded with a software fix. The Tivo HD and later models were introduced after multi-stream cards became available, hence the reason they only use a single card.

If you want to use both tuners in a S3 OLED Tivo then you have to use two cards. This is not an option. If you don't like it, get a different Tivo.
I've never owned the S3 OLED box so I'm not complaining. I just think it's crazy that a box still being used today requires 2 cable cards. I'm not blaming anyone except maybe the user that still chooses to pay double the amount in cable card fees. It just sounds insane. That's all. I'm sure there are good reasons for it.

But since you brought it up, Tivo couldn't have built it for multi stream cards as well since they knew the M-cards would be out really soon?
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Old 10-01-2013, 11:23 AM   #102
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I've never owned the S3 OLED box so I'm not complaining. I just think it's crazy that a box still being used today requires 2 cable cards. I'm not blaming anyone except maybe the user that still chooses to pay double the amount in cable card fees. It just sounds insane. That's all. I'm sure there are good reasons for it.

But since you brought it up, Tivo couldn't have built it for multi stream cards as well since they knew the M-cards would be out really soon?
They tried, but without final spec M-cards to test against it turned out that the S3 implementation wasn't actually compatible.

That kind of crap happens when you have to design against a, not quite finalized, paper spec instead of being able to actually test against a reference implementation. TiVo took their best shot, it didn't work, and their rep has told us here that when they went back to look it wasn't possibly to safely field update S3s to the 'as implemented' M-card spec.
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Old 10-01-2013, 12:02 PM   #103
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I've never owned the S3 OLED box so I'm not complaining. I just think it's crazy that a box still being used today requires 2 cable cards. I'm not blaming anyone except maybe the user that still chooses to pay double the amount in cable card fees. It just sounds insane. That's all. I'm sure there are good reasons for it.
I ADORE my S3 OLED box, it's one of the best built pieces of consumer electronics I have ever owned, the 2 cards are worth it to me to have that box in service in the house, they really got everything right for me on it.

The only potential replacement for it may be a 6-tuner Roamio, I'm very happy with the Roamio performance vs my Elite.
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Old 10-01-2013, 01:07 PM   #104
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I used to own two S3 OLED Tivos and liked them a lot better than most of the newer models. It was the first cablecard Tivo and I paid a premium price for early technology, although I technically wasn't an early adopter. I had to use four single stream cablecards at $2.99 apiece. I don't know if they'd still be grandfathered in at that price, but when I added a Ceton tuner to the mix and got an M-card for it, the price for the M-card was $3.99. The price of my S-cards never went up the entire time I had them.

I suspect that if they had been M-cards the cost would have gone up with the priced increase. Perhaps Verizon felt it was more profitable to rent obsolete technology at a lower cost than run the risk of losing any revenue by increasing the monthly fee. The S-cards would have been useless to them if I returned them since they now only provide M-cards.
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Old 10-01-2013, 02:43 PM   #105
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They tried, but without final spec M-cards to test against it turned out that the S3 implementation wasn't actually compatible.

That kind of crap happens when you have to design against a, not quite finalized, paper spec instead of being able to actually test against a reference implementation. TiVo took their best shot, it didn't work, and their rep has told us here that when they went back to look it wasn't possibly to safely field update S3s to the 'as implemented' M-card spec.
Anyone who doesn't understand why an original S3 can't use M cards never went through the "Pentium Ready" 486 motherboard fiasco.
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Old 10-01-2013, 04:21 PM   #106
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I used to own two S3 OLED Tivos and liked them a lot better than most of the newer models. It was the first cablecard Tivo and I paid a premium price for early technology, although I technically wasn't an early adopter. I had to use four single stream cablecards at $2.99 apiece. I don't know if they'd still be grandfathered in at that price, but when I added a Ceton tuner to the mix and got an M-card for it, the price for the M-card was $3.99. The price of my S-cards never went up the entire time I had them.

I suspect that if they had been M-cards the cost would have gone up with the priced increase. Perhaps Verizon felt it was more profitable to rent obsolete technology at a lower cost than run the risk of losing any revenue by increasing the monthly fee. The S-cards would have been useless to them if I returned them since they now only provide M-cards.
There was no grandfathering here. When I got FiOS in 2007, I used six, single stream cards for $2.99 each in three OLED S3 TiVos along with a couple of multi stream cards in two TiVo HD boxes. When the prices went up to $3.99, they went up on all my cards, there was no grandfathering for me.

Unless the price increase did occur after the Premiere came out. I do know that when the Premiere came out, i got rid of all of my Single Stream cards and got Multi stream cards instead since I had ordered a bunch of launch Premieres to replace all my S3 TiVo HDs and S3 OLED TiVos.
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Old 12-22-2013, 10:26 PM   #107
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We paid V Fios $5.99 a month for the cablecard rental.
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Old 12-24-2013, 09:38 AM   #108
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They tried, but without final spec M-cards to test against it turned out that the S3 implementation wasn't actually compatible.

That kind of crap happens when you have to design against a, not quite finalized, paper spec instead of being able to actually test against a reference implementation. TiVo took their best shot, it didn't work, and their rep has told us here that when they went back to look it wasn't possibly to safely field update S3s to the 'as implemented' M-card spec.
Tivo could have updated the S3 for M-Cards but they chose not to do so. It wasn't worth the trouble and risk.

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Old 12-26-2013, 10:38 PM   #109
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I have FiOS and wouldn't take the DVR if they paid me to. Well, I might take it and store it in a closet.
I know this is an old post, but even though this may have a witty retort, why don't you just do this? The same cablecard they use in their DVR is the one you'd need for your Tivo, so just pull it out of theirs, stick it in yours, and put the Verizon one in the closet.

Job done.
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Old 12-26-2013, 11:05 PM   #110
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I know this is an old post, but even though this may have a witty retort, why don't you just do this? The same cablecard they use in their DVR is the one you'd need for your Tivo, so just pull it out of theirs, stick it in yours, and put the Verizon one in the closet.

Job done.
Version may get cranky if you did that, and had to re-pare the card
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Old 12-27-2013, 12:20 AM   #111
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Version may get cranky if you did that, and had to re-pare the card
Indeed, they wouldn't let you re-pair it. But you'd still get everything except HBO and Cinemax without pairing.

A bigger issue is that you'd be paying the DVR rental price just to get a CableCard, which is a really bad deal.
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Old 12-27-2013, 02:23 AM   #112
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Does Verizon really charge $5 or $5.99/mo for cable card services? That's outrageous.. Is there anything in the laws to prevent them from pushing the prices so high to make it anti-competitive? I'm still bothered that TWC raise their price from $1.50 to $2.50 years ago... but $5 and up would sort of make it cost prohibitive almost. It makes me think they are doing this on purpose as more people have multiple tuners and things like the Mini.

That being said, while I also have a TWCNYC set top box along with my TiVos - I just can't imagine having to go back to using their box even at that price. For all the issues that people might have with TiVo, it doesn't compare to the suffering that you have to endure with their own box. I really don't know after all these years how they get away with giving out such an inferior experience with their DVRs. Well, I guess the answer is just that many people don't know or can't be bothered doing what we all do.

I've been lucky and have had minimal to no issues moving my cablecard from my Premiere XL to my Roamio Pro. (knock on wood) I know not everyone has had the same experience though.
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Old 12-27-2013, 09:12 AM   #113
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Does Verizon really charge $5 or $5.99/mo for cable card services? That's outrageous.. Is there anything in the laws to prevent them from pushing the prices so high to make it anti-competitive?
Providers are free to charge what they feel is fair and competitive. Considering that we are no longer required to rent any hardware from Verizon or any other provider, $4.99 per month, which is the current cost, isn't that bad. My total equipment rental fees with FIOS is for three cablecards and no set top boxes or DVRs. I signed up for a 2-year commitment which locks me into the current rates and also gives me a discount, so my monthly bill is lower. FIOS internet is the best available, IMHO, so it's worth the cost just to get it. I also get a discount for having the bundled service (internet, phone, and TV), plus I get my wireless service included in one monthly bill.

Gripe all you want about Verizon's cablecard fees, but I'll take them over any other provider out there.
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Old 12-27-2013, 09:59 AM   #114
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I was planning on switching from Comcast to Verizon.

I have 3 Tivo boxes that have lifetime.

I am staying with Comcast.
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Old 12-27-2013, 10:01 AM   #115
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Providers are free to charge what they feel is fair and competitive. Considering that we are no longer required to rent any hardware from Verizon or any other provider, $4.99 per month, which is the current cost, isn't that bad. My total equipment rental fees with FIOS is for three cablecards and no set top boxes or DVRs. I signed up for a 2-year commitment which locks me into the current rates and also gives me a discount, so my monthly bill is lower. FIOS internet is the best available, IMHO, so it's worth the cost just to get it. I also get a discount for having the bundled service (internet, phone, and TV), plus I get my wireless service included in one monthly bill.

Gripe all you want about Verizon's cablecard fees, but I'll take them over any other provider out there.
Comcast, for most people, is $8.45/month per cable card and about 9% taxes. ($1.00 for the card, $9.95 for the AO charge - $2.50cr for using your own equipment). I have been grandfather in at one $7.45 charge + $1 each for 4 cable cards.
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Old 12-27-2013, 10:17 AM   #116
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No, it's $7.45 per month on average for Comcast ($9.95 outlet fee minus $2.50 credit). I don't know where you're getting the $1 extra charge from, you're the only one I've seen reporting it.

Regardless of what it is exactly, the fact that the FCC lets Comcast skirt the reasonable card rental rules is disappointing. Multiple complaints have been filed about it but the FCC looks the other way. It's also annoying that card charges on Comcast vary wildly by area and what CSR you get, there's not much consistency to them. Some don't pay anything for cards, some pay a minor per-card charge ($1-2), some pay full outlet with or without a credit.
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Old 12-27-2013, 10:51 AM   #117
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No, it's $7.45 per month on average for Comcast ($9.95 outlet fee minus $2.50 credit). I don't know where you're getting the $1 extra charge from, you're the only one I've seen reporting it.

Regardless of what it is exactly, the fact that the FCC lets Comcast skirt the reasonable card rental rules is disappointing. Multiple complaints have been filed about it but the FCC looks the other way. It's also annoying that card charges on Comcast vary wildly by area and what CSR you get, there's not much consistency to them. Some don't pay anything for cards, some pay a minor per-card charge ($1-2), some pay full outlet with or without a credit.
Actually, I think the most common is that people pay a small charge for the card (a couple of bucks) and then pay an outlet fee on top of that (which where the $1 comes from). I believe that is the national advice to the franchises. But some franchises bundle the cablecard fee into the outlet fee - it depends on how they break down the charges for their own equipment.
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Old 12-27-2013, 11:56 AM   #118
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Actually, I think the most common is that people pay a small charge for the card (a couple of bucks) and then pay an outlet fee on top of that (which where the $1 comes from). I believe that is the national advice to the franchises. But some franchises bundle the cablecard fee into the outlet fee - it depends on how they break down the charges for their own equipment.
According to the information at the Comcast website, they are only supposed to charge for the 2nd CableCARD in the same device:

Quote:
The first CableCARD in a retail device (e.g., TiVo devices or CableCARD equipped televisions) is provided at no additional charge to Comcast customers. If a second CableCARD is needed for the same device (i.e., TiVo Series 3 boxes), the cost is $1.50 per month for the additional card. Again, this only applies to a second CableCARD in the same device.
I have 4 TiVos, one of which is a TiVo 2(w/PLS) connected to one of their boxes, said box counting as the one included in the package. I am paying a net $7.45ea/mo for the other 3 ($9.95ea/mo "Digital Service" fee - $2.50ea/mo "Customer Owned Equipment - Adjustment").
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Old 12-27-2013, 12:50 PM   #119
JSY
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Originally Posted by slowbiscuit View Post
Regardless of what it is exactly, the fact that the FCC lets Comcast skirt the reasonable card rental rules is disappointing. Multiple complaints have been filed about it but the FCC looks the other way.
This is what I'm talking about.. I mean at a certain point it become anti-competitive and I have to imagine all that hard work to force cable companies to allow people to own set top boxes meant they worked out rules against cable companies making it so expensive that people wouldn't own their own boxes. The way I see it - my cable card costs have almost doubled since I started with cable cards about 5 years ago - which is at a far higher rate of increase than anything else on my cable bill, including their own STB, over that period. Now, if that money was going to train their customer service better then maybe I wouldn't be so bothered. lol
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Old 12-27-2013, 02:10 PM   #120
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Verizon only charges for the card. There are no extra outlet fees. If anyone's penalizing cablecard users, it's Comcast, not Verizon.
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