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Old 06-17-2013, 09:08 AM   #1
gamo62
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Stream Will NOT work on MPEG4

Just a heads up. The Stream will not currently work with MPEG4 content. Our system uses MPEG4 for cable channels, and MPEG2 for broadcast. The only ones that will stream are those encoded in MPEG2.

Not sure if TiVo is even aware of this issue.

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Old 06-17-2013, 01:43 PM   #2
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I wonder why they didn't consider this? I know MPEG-4 channels are rare in the cable industry, but they released an update to the Premiere software to support MPEG-4 channels long before the Stream was released. You'd think they would have added MPEG-4 support just in case. Unless maybe the hardware isn't capable of decoding MPEG-4. But if that's the case then it's a pretty major design flaw.
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Old 06-17-2013, 04:50 PM   #3
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Are you absolutely sure about this? That seems like a huge oversight on TiVo's part.

However, I know for a fact that the TiVo Stream hardware supports transcoding MPEG 4 streams, so if this is actually and issue, it would just require TiVo to issue a software update to fix the issue.
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Old 06-17-2013, 05:36 PM   #4
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Yeah it's been mentioned a few times. Most people only have a couple of channels that are MPEG-4 so it hasn't been a big deal. But apparently the OP's cable provider switched entirely to MPEG-4 except for local channels so it effects him a lot.
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Old 07-05-2013, 01:40 PM   #5
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Well this answers my question of why my stream stopped streaming a lot of channels a few weeks ago. We're also with Cinti Bell Fioptics. I have a Premium XL Tivo and my husband has an older Tivo HD Series 3. A few weeks ago his Tivo stopped working. He thought it was a cable card problem. The technician was out just a little while ago and said his Tivo HD Series 3 won't work with Cinti Bell Fioptics anymore because they switched to MPEG4 recently and my husbands older Tivo only supports MPEG2. Now I'm disappointed to find that my Tivo Stream I just got last Christmas is so limited to the channels I can still
stream to my Ipad/Iphone.
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Old 07-05-2013, 03:08 PM   #6
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Pretty goofy, since it outputs MP4.
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Old 07-05-2013, 05:46 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by wmcbrine View Post
Pretty goofy, since it outputs MP4.
OK I know this is a huge nit pick, but FYI...

MP4 is a container.

MPEG-4 is a standard that contains a bunch of stuff including the MP4 container, a couple of video codecs and the AAC audio codec.

MPEG-4 part 10, aka H.264, aka AVC, is the video codec.

I know a lot of people use these all interchangeably, but it can be a bit confusing for someone who's not aware of the differences.

In this case the Stream outputs H.264 video and AAC audio in a TS based format called HLS. (basically just a TS file chunked up into a a bunch of tiny segments for easy seeking)
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Old 07-05-2013, 08:12 PM   #8
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That's really sloppy on TiVo's part, although I'm somehow not surprised. You'd think they would have figured it out, especially with a lot of interest at least about MPEG-4 on the traditional cable side, and MPEG-4 being a big deal on the FIOS side of the cable world.
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Old 07-05-2013, 09:40 PM   #9
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Yeah I really hope they're working on fixing this. A lot of MSOs are going to be looking at switching channels to H.264 in the next few years.
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Old 07-06-2013, 12:05 AM   #10
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OK I know this is a huge nit pick, but FYI...
Yes, I was too lazy to type more.
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Old 07-06-2013, 08:32 AM   #11
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Yeah I really hope they're working on fixing this. A lot of MSOs are going to be looking at switching channels to H.264 in the next few years.
Yup. I hope Comcast joins in on the game. Seeing how they did analog reduction, they'll wait a bit, and then just go for it all the way to free up capacity without SDV.
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Old 07-19-2013, 12:10 PM   #12
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Yup. I hope Comcast joins in on the game. Seeing how they did analog reduction, they'll wait a bit, and then just go for it all the way to free up capacity without SDV.
As has been discussed elsewhere, how fast a cable co moves to H.264 will be partially dependent on how much of their currently deployed user equipment they would have to replace.

I sincerely hope TiVo deploys an update to the Series 3 s/w.

When I first read the title of this thread, I wondered if someone had a problem watching a replay of Super Bowl I or IV.
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Old 07-19-2013, 05:57 PM   #13
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I sincerely hope TiVo deploys an update to the Series 3 s/w.
Never gonna happen! The S3 platform is dead. The Premier has been out for 3.5 years and TiVo is on the cusp of releasing a new Series 5. There is no way they are going to dedicate resources to updating a platform that hasn't been sold new in over 3 years. Not to mention this is a problem that already only effects a small percentage of their customers anyway. Most cable companies don't use H.264 yet and those that do only use it on a small subset of lesser watched channels. Companies like the OPs that did a wholesale switch to H.264 are very, very, rare.
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Old 07-19-2013, 06:12 PM   #14
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Never gonna happen! The S3 platform is dead. The Premier has been out for 3.5 years and TiVo is on the cusp of releasing a new Series 5. There is no way they are going to dedicate resources to updating a platform that hasn't been sold new in over 3 years. Not to mention this is a problem that already only effects a small percentage of their customers anyway. Most cable companies don't use H.264 yet and those that do only use it on a small subset of lesser watched channels. Companies like the OPs that did a wholesale switch to H.264 are very, very, rare.
In light of the fact that they are in the process of deploying a fix to the S3 (and even supposedly S2's) to address the expired cookie problem, i wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the possibility. Especially considering the fact that H.264 support has already been deployed to the Aussie S3 platform and should be a fairly easy port.
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Old 07-19-2013, 07:03 PM   #15
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In light of the fact that they are in the process of deploying a fix to the S3 (and even supposedly S2's) to address the expired cookie problem, i wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the possibility. Especially considering the fact that H.264 support has already been deployed to the Aussie S3 platform and should be a fairly easy port.
Even though H.264 was supported on the platform in Aus/NZ they would still need to beta test it here in the US before pushing the release out to unsuspecting customers. That requires resources and I just can't see them dedicating any of their resources to an 8 year old platform. Especially when they are in the midist working on a new platform.

The fixes they're pushing out will fix the expired cookie and nothing more.
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Old 07-19-2013, 07:59 PM   #16
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Even though H.264 was supported on the platform in Aus/NZ they would still need to beta test it here in the US before pushing the release out to unsuspecting customers. That requires resources and I just can't see them dedicating any of their resources to an 8 year old platform. Especially when they are in the midist working on a new platform.

The fixes they're pushing out will fix the expired cookie and nothing more.
I never claimed otherwise. I'm simply saying that your dismissal of any possibility of their deploying H.264 support for the S3 at some point is not supportable. It may be unlikely, but it is possible and none of has sufficient information to calculate the odds. The longer it takes for some major player to convert to H.264 in a big way, the less likely it becomes, but it never becomes totally out of the question.

Let me ask you this - given the possibility that CableCARDs may be replaced by s/w enforced security, why should anyone buy a TiVo if TiVo may or not deploy a s/w solution to existing platforms if and when that day comes?

In either of the above scenarios, you could end up with a really bizarre situation - S2s (and even S1s) would still work by utilizing a set top box while more recent TiVos would not.

There are really 3 possibilities = I might die, the King might die, or the horse could learn to sing.
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Old 07-19-2013, 09:00 PM   #17
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As has been discussed elsewhere, how fast a cable co moves to H.264 will be partially dependent on how much of their currently deployed user equipment they would have to replace.

I sincerely hope TiVo deploys an update to the Series 3 s/w.

When I first read the title of this thread, I wondered if someone had a problem watching a replay of Super Bowl I or IV.
Most of the HD stuff out there is MPEG-4 compliant on Comcast. There are some older boxes, but it wouldn't be that big of a change.
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Old 07-20-2013, 06:00 AM   #18
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It may be unlikely, but it is possible and none of has sufficient information to calculate the odds.
I have been with TiVo since the beginning and they have never in their history gone back and released a major update for a discontinued box. In fact the only precedent for this new S3 release is when they released an update for S1 units, many years after they were discontinued, to fix an issue with daylight savings. And that release only contained that one single fix, nothing more.

As for the downloadable security thing... If that happens, and it's actually possible to update via software, then I expect TiVo to release that software for whatever the current generation box is at that time. If it happens next year then I would full expect them to release it for the Series 5 but not the Premiere units. If you don't like that prospect the I would avoid buying a Premiere right now.

Dan
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Old 08-24-2013, 02:54 PM   #19
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Arrow MPEG4 Support on Tivo Stream

Anyone heard an update on when TiVo will update the Stream to support MPEG4 video? My cable company also has most of the channels encoded with MPEG4 which means no steaming for me...
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Old 08-24-2013, 03:01 PM   #20
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We know there is an update coming to enable out of home streaming, so maybe they'll also fix this while they're at it? We don't really know as they don't tend to discuss bugs like this in public.
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Old 08-30-2013, 10:23 PM   #21
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Hopefully this is fixed soon since FiOS added four more H.264 channels last week with maybe more coming in September.

Of course it really doesn't do me any good until Android support comes to the Stream anyway.

Is there even a way to test the stream in my Roamio Pro without using an Apple product? IS there some way to test it in Windows.
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Old 08-31-2013, 01:13 AM   #22
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Is there even a way to test the stream in my Roamio Pro without using an Apple product? IS there some way to test it in Windows.
Nope. Only the iOS app can talk to the Stream.
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Old 09-03-2013, 11:53 PM   #23
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Is there even a way to test the stream in my Roamio Pro without using an Apple product? IS there some way to test it in Windows.
You can connect to it with a browser at least to check that it responds:
http://<Roamio IP>:49152/sysinfo

My daughter claims that the Roamio stream is not working with her iPad Mini, but refuses to let me touch her iPad to try and debug. I'm not too concerned about it as I have no use for the stream function myself...
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Old 09-04-2013, 12:24 AM   #24
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My daughter claims that the Roamio stream is not working with her iPad Mini, but refuses to let me touch her iPad to try and debug.
I guess that's one way to get out of support duty.
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Old 09-04-2013, 01:22 AM   #25
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You can connect to it with a browser at least to check that it responds:
http://<Roamio IP>:49152/sysinfo

My daughter claims that the Roamio stream is not working with her iPad Mini, but refuses to let me touch her iPad to try and debug. I'm not too concerned about it as I have no use for the stream function myself...
Thanks!

That brought up a menu that showed the time, software version, build date, streaming state, transcode status, temperature, etc..
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Old 09-04-2013, 11:21 AM   #26
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Hopefully this is fixed soon since FiOS added four more H.264 channels last week with maybe more coming in September.

Of course it really doesn't do me any good until Android support comes to the Stream anyway.

Is there even a way to test the stream in my Roamio Pro without using an Apple product? IS there some way to test it in Windows.
What channels did they add in mp4? Was one of them FXX-HD (584)?
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Old 09-28-2013, 10:27 AM   #27
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Still no resolution with the Stream and H.264. I cannot believe they didn't see this coming.
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Old 09-28-2013, 10:35 AM   #28
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What channels did they add in mp4? Was one of them FXX-HD (584)?
They added these H.264 channels recently

BeIn Sport HD
BeIn Sport HD Esp
TVGN HD
Sony Movie HD
Universal Sports HD
ESPN Deportes HD
Univision Deportes HD
Willow HD
TV Japan HD

I don't know where they are all located in the channel lineup but the ones I know are
Sony Movie HD - 735
Universal Sports HD 596
Willow HD - 1007
Outdooor HD2 - 591
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Old 10-01-2013, 03:22 PM   #29
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Yeah, I tried to dump a BeInSport show onto my Tivo last week and it failed. Not so cool...
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Old 10-03-2013, 11:03 PM   #30
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In fact the only precedent for this new S3 release is when they released an update for S1 units, many years after they were discontinued, to fix an issue with daylight savings. And that release only contained that one single fix, nothing more.
The S1 DirecTiVos were fixed (by DirecTV), but the S1 Standalone units were not fixed. A user came up with a hack and after much grousing TiVo incorporated the hack and rolled it out. The hack involves two reboots per DST switch.

I predict the S3s will get MPEG4/H264 support when my S1 unit gets folders/groups.


BTW On the S1 DTiVos they did get one new feature - skip button now takes you to the end AND beginning of the Now Playing screen - S1 SA never got it.
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