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Old 09-15-2013, 03:27 AM   #1
AdamNJ
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MOCA / Network Traffic

So I enabled the MOCA bridge inside of the Roamio so that I could hookup a Mini using just the coax. I have the Mini working okay, it shows that it is connected using MOCA, everything seems to work okay.

It was my understanding that one of the advantages of using MOCA was that the streaming traffic would be carried over the coaxial instead of my wired ethernet network. Is that really the case though?

I expected to see that the Roamio would essentially setup its own network, assigning its own IPs to MOCA clients on some separate subnet. Essentially it would act like another router strictly for MOCA.

Looking at the info on my Mini, and on my router, it is clear that it is pulling an IP from my router (and of course on the same network subnet). So due to that, it makes me wonder if streaming data for my Mini is actually passing through my router; therefore, I am not really saving myself from network traffic (which I wanted to avoid).

Does anyone know the correct details?
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Old 09-15-2013, 03:40 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamNJ View Post
It was my understanding that one of the advantages of using MOCA was that the streaming traffic would be carried over the coaxial instead of my wired ethernet network. Is that really the case though?
This assumption is correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamNJ View Post
I expected to see that the Roamio would essentially setup its own network, assigning its own IPs to MOCA clients on some separate subnet. Essentially it would act like another router strictly for MOCA.
This assumption is incorrect.

A MoCA bridge is just that, a bridge, not a router. It is an extension of your local Ethernet network across a new medium (coax). Same subnet, same broadcast domain, etc..

It will carry broadcast traffic across seamlessly. (including DHCP requests). It will carry directed packets to a specific MAC address seamlessly (DHCP response, and normal traffic). It will not however flood unicast MoCA to MoCA traffic (traffic between two MoCA nodes) across onto your ethernet network. (Or flood unicast ethernet to ethernet traffic across to the MoCA network).
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Old 09-18-2013, 08:58 PM   #3
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I restarted my router and switch (to which my Roamio is connected to). My Mini lost connection to the Roamio (live tv stopped and I got an error message). If my ethernet network isn't supposed to be played a role, why did the moca connection drop?
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Old 09-18-2013, 10:14 PM   #4
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The MoCA, ethernet, wireless sections of your network (LAN) all have to work together. All the nodes, however connected< should receive IP addresses from the same DHCP server (if that is what you are doing) or have compatible static IP addresses - on the same net/subnet. Don't think of them as separate -- it is a single network but with different transmission media.

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Old 09-18-2013, 10:18 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamNJ View Post
I restarted my router and switch (to which my Roamio is connected to). My Mini lost connection to the Roamio (live tv stopped and I got an error message). If my ethernet network isn't supposed to be played a role, why did the moca connection drop?
It does send traffic directly across MoCA but it relies on your router for an IP address.

Basically it's like UPS delivering a package without involving FedEx. If someone steals your house number or street sign, they have trouble finding your house and can't deliver. The same is true when you don't have an IP address because your router is down. When the Roamio loses network connection it drops MoCA.
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Old 09-18-2013, 10:21 PM   #6
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Can we get a connection diagram? Ascii Art? MS Paint?

The Mini isn't *also* connected via Ethernet is it?

I can turn off my network switches and still stream between my MoCA tivos. And unless something strange is going on, you should be able to too.

(Although you could not boot or redo the network connection in that state, as you would be isolated from your DHCP server)
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Old 09-18-2013, 10:22 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by geekmedic View Post
When the Roamio loses network connection it drops MoCA.
Really? Hmm.. my premier XL4 does not do that...

If true, that's really kinda dumb...
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Old 09-18-2013, 10:33 PM   #8
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I was just complaining about this two days ago.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=509163

My network looks like this:

Mini <-- MoCA --> Roamio <-- Ethernet --> Router

Losing ethernet link on my Roamio is sufficient to destroy the MoCA network, even though the MoCA segment should logically function without ethernet.
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Old 09-18-2013, 11:57 PM   #9
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Can we get a connection diagram? Ascii Art? MS Paint?
Cable Modem >> Linksys WRT54G router >> Linksys EF4116 16-Port 10/100 Switch

All the wall jacks in my house go to that same switch mentioned above. Roamio Pro is wired to the 16 port switch. Roamio Pro creates MOCA network.


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The Mini isn't *also* connected via Ethernet is it?
Nope, nor did I enter any wireless info.
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Old 09-19-2013, 07:49 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveDFW View Post
I was just complaining about this two days ago.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...d.php?t=509163

My network looks like this:

Mini <-- MoCA --> Roamio <-- Ethernet --> Router

Losing ethernet link on my Roamio is sufficient to destroy the MoCA network, even though the MoCA segment should logically function without ethernet.
Losing the ethernet link SHOULD destroy the MoCA network, eventually, but I'm surprised it does it immediately. Your router is the only device handing out IP addresses (if you have a typical DHCP setup), so once DHCP leases expire, the Mini and Roamio won't be able to find each other (as was stated earlier by another poster.)
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Old 09-19-2013, 08:04 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by CrispyCritter View Post
Losing the ethernet link SHOULD destroy the MoCA network, eventually, but I'm surprised it does it immediately. Your router is the only device handing out IP addresses (if you have a typical DHCP setup), so once DHCP leases expire, the Mini and Roamio won't be able to find each other (as was stated earlier by another poster.)
There is another thread talking about this in the Roamio sub-forum. Apparently if your Roamio is connected directly to your router and the router goes out it kills the whole network as the Roamio no longer has an Ethernet connection to bridge to. However if your Roamio is connected to a switch the MOCA section of your network will stay up if your Router goes out because the Roamio is still bridging to a live Ethernet connection.

I have seen the same thing with my home Ethernet network. The router crashes or get unplugged and anything connected directly to is is off the network, however my devices attached to switches can still see each other and transfer files through that part of the network.
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Old 09-19-2013, 08:11 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by atmuscarella View Post
There is another thread talking about this in the Roamio sub-forum. Apparently if your Roamio is connected directly to your router and the router goes out it kills the whole network as the Roamio no longer has an Ethernet connection to bridge to. However if your Roamio is connected to a switch the MOCA section of your network will stay up if your Router goes out because the Roamio is still bridging to a live Ethernet connection.

I have seen the same thing with my home Ethernet network. The router crashes or get unplugged and anything connected directly to is is off the network, however my devices attached to switches can still see each other and transfer files through that part of the network.
That sounds like an excellent explanation of what's happening, thanks.
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Old 09-19-2013, 09:29 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrispyCritter View Post
Losing the ethernet link SHOULD destroy the MoCA network, eventually, but I'm surprised it does it immediately. Your router is the only device handing out IP addresses (if you have a typical DHCP setup), so once DHCP leases expire, the Mini and Roamio won't be able to find each other (as was stated earlier by another poster.)
Right, I'd expect devices to stop working as their DHCP leases expire, but MoCA fails within seconds of losing ethernet link at the Roamio. It first seemed that "loss of internet" was destroying the MoCA, but the real issue is probably that "losing ethernet link after the Tivo has established a bridge" causes the MoCA failure.
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Old 09-19-2013, 03:25 PM   #14
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So I guess what I described above was caused by me restarting my switch. That caused the Ethernet post on the Roamio to sense that it wasn't connected to anything and so the MOCA shut down. Certainly if you have two computers connected to a switch, and the power to the switch is pulled, both computers will show as media disconnected/lose their IP.

So while that is likely the logic in play, I would still think that the MOCA should stay up just fine since the Coax is still connected. And I know the Roamio has 3 MAC addresses, so I would think that one is for the the Coax/MOCA side and therefore it wouldn't drop out. It would retain it's IP.

So it comes down to is this a bug or is this the expected behavior? If you would using Ethernet to connect Mini's, yes it should drop since you effectively broke the physical connection between the two devices. Using only MOCA and the Coax, the wire is still connected and electrical power is on both ends. If the IP leases expire, then okay it breaks, but if the IPs are good...and the ethernet router/switch hardware isn't used to transfer any data, then removing them from the picture temporarily shouldn't affect MOCA IMHO.
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Old 09-20-2013, 03:00 PM   #15
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I definitly don't lose MOCA on my DirecTV receivers when my network switch loses power.

In my case, I installed my DirecTV boxes before I had ethernet available in both rooms so I used MOCA for them.

When I wanted to add Tivos in each of those rooms, I wasn't sure whether I could run both FIOS and DirecTV over the same RG6 cable, so I added a network switch in the same room as my router and ran additional RG6 and ethernet cables to each room.

For some reason, which I haven't been able to figure out yet, about once a week my network switch seems to lock up. That is, when I look at the lights on it, they are all flashing except for the port with the cable connected to my router.

When this happens, I lose network on all my Tivo boxes as well as my Mac Minis. However, I can still stream a show between my DirecTV boxes with no problems.
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