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Old 09-08-2013, 09:47 PM   #1
consumedsoul
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NFL football OTA quality

For those of you w/ OTA recording NFL games, do you notice a significant decrease in quality when the camera view is wide/field view (a little noisy, 'halo' around players etc.)?

Is this because the field action is filmed in 720 etc. (I've heard, e.g. from articles like this)?

Do users using cable cards experience the same lower quality or no (I've never used so don't have a baseline comparison)?

As background I get anywhere from 60-70's for OTA quality on the NFL channels.
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Old 09-09-2013, 07:04 AM   #2
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I have found OTA NFL games to be outstanding so far...

Both FOX and NBC looked just great and I am running 1080P...
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Old 09-09-2013, 07:17 AM   #3
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I am not a big football watcher so I can not help out the original poster. But I did happen to land on my local Fox station yesterday (OTA) during a game and the picture was stunning.
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Old 09-09-2013, 09:41 AM   #4
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I would think that a 720p broadcast would be marginally better than a 1080i. I've noticed that during basketball, ESPN's 720p PQ is better than other stations 1080i, esp when looking at the floor. The 720p broadcast doesn't have all the jaggies.
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Old 09-09-2013, 09:43 AM   #5
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This weekend was my first weekend OTA watching the NFL, it looked great. No shadows at all.
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Old 09-09-2013, 08:17 PM   #6
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What are you comparing it to? When you have the antenna hooked up to your TV? Some TVs will remember different display settings for each input. So you could have the sharpness turned way up for the Tivo HDMI input vs a smoother setting for your TV's built-in OTA tuner.

Also possible is that you like the 720p to 1080p upconverting processor in your TV better than the one in the Tivo. If so, you should set the Tivo to output in 720P and let the TV do the 1080P upconversion.
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Old 09-09-2013, 08:50 PM   #7
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What are you comparing it to? When you have the antenna hooked up to your TV? Some TVs will remember different display settings for each input. So you could have the sharpness turned way up for the Tivo HDMI input vs a smoother setting for your TV's built-in OTA tuner.

Also possible is that you like the 720p to 1080p upconverting processor in your TV better than the one in the Tivo. If so, you should set the Tivo to output in 720P and let the TV do the 1080P upconversion.
Cool thanks for the tips!

If I set the TiVo unit to output to 720p is there any OTA programming out there that's 1080 that I'd be 'compromising/limiting' as far as quality? Sorry totally ignorant in that area.
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Old 09-09-2013, 09:05 PM   #8
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I think it is more likely to be the first option of different display settings on your TV than you are used to. But OTA can broadcast in 720P or 1080i. So it will mess with the 1080i. I'm not even sure that the Tivo gives you the option of forcing 720P output. Also, there could be online content through Netflix or Amazon that is 1080P that you would be limiting.
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Old 09-09-2013, 11:29 PM   #9
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Most content is broadcast in 1080i. I'll take an NFL 1080i broadcast over an NFL 720P broadcast. The picture is sharper and more detailed from the 1080i broadcast than the 720P one.
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Old 09-10-2013, 05:24 AM   #10
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I would think that a 720p broadcast would be marginally better than a 1080i. I've noticed that during basketball, ESPN's 720p PQ is better than other stations 1080i, esp when looking at the floor. The 720p broadcast doesn't have all the jaggies.
If a 720P or 1080i broadcast ends up looking better is subject to many things. Each channel's bitrate, how well what ever devise is doing your up-scaling works, and your TV to start.

With my setup I can not tell much difference on Panasonic Plasma TV between the networks that broadcast in 720p or 1080i and because it is a plasma I don't have any motion problems with any broadcasts.
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Old 09-10-2013, 05:29 AM   #11
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Just to update everyone, I did a sanity check and went to a friend's place (who's using Comcast/Cablecard) and looked at his recording of the same FOX NFL game (Seahawks vs. Panthers) and it had the same crappy quality (if not slightly worse), so guess it wasn't my antennae/tv/tivo - some stations just don't record sports all that well (noticed my Sunday Night football game quality was much better).

At least this saves me from going insane and runnin' back to Comcast.

Thx all for the replies though, learned a lot from the thread!
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Old 09-10-2013, 07:16 AM   #12
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If a 720P or 1080i broadcast ends up looking better is subject to many things. Each channel's bitrate, how well what ever devise is doing your up-scaling works, and your TV to start.

With my setup I can not tell much difference on Panasonic Plasma TV between the networks that broadcast in 720p or 1080i and because it is a plasma I don't have any motion problems with any broadcasts.
I have a panasonic plasma as well 42GT25

And can def see a difference esp with basketball.
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Old 09-10-2013, 11:07 AM   #13
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This is common in football, and has been. I watch 4-6 college games every weekend, and its the same on every one.

Wide shots have some issues, closeups on the field looks much better, just the way it is.
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Old 09-11-2013, 04:38 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by consumedsoul View Post
For those of you w/ OTA recording NFL games, do you notice a significant decrease in quality when the camera view is wide/field view (a little noisy, 'halo' around players etc.)?

Is this because the field action is filmed in 720 etc. (I've heard, e.g. from articles like this)?

Do users using cable cards experience the same lower quality or no (I've never used so don't have a baseline comparison)?

As background I get anywhere from 60-70's for OTA quality on the NFL channels.
Try turning down the sharpness a bit and the contrast, that should reduce the problem. Try the sharpness first. Experiment a bit.
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Old 09-11-2013, 06:42 AM   #15
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I have a panasonic plasma as well 42GT25

And can def see a difference esp with basketball.
I don't have cable so I can not speak to the actual quality of any specific cable channel. For OTA channels the only one where I can sometimes see a difference is my local CW, mostly because it is a sub channel of my local ABC station and broadcast with a substantially lower bit rate (a 1 hr HD show on ABC is 2X the size as a 1 hr HD show on CW for me). My TV is not doing the upscaling, I have my TiVo set to output 1080i going to a new Denon X4000 receiver set to output 1080p. Of course there are other factors like my eyes (getting old) and the distance I sit from my TV (to far back for the size TV I have) that affect how my picture looks to me. In any event regardless of the actually picture clarity I have not seen any motion problems like I have on other people's older LCD TVs.
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Old 09-11-2013, 07:54 AM   #16
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I don't have cable so I can not speak to the actual quality of any specific cable channel. For OTA channels the only one where I can sometimes see a difference is my local CW, mostly because it is a sub channel of my local ABS station and broadcast with a substantially lower bit rate (a 1 hr HD show on ABS is 2X the size as a 1 hr HD show on CW for me). My TV is not doing the upscaling, I have my TiVo set to output 1080i going to a new Denon X4000 receiver set to output 1080p. Of course there are other factors like my eyes (getting old) and the distance I sit from my TV (to far back for the size TV I have) that affect how my picture looks to me. In any event regardless of the actually picture clarity I have not seen any motion problems like I have on other people's older LCD TVs.
Well its not really motion thats the issue for me that I see. Its moire artifacts that gets produced on the floor (by the lines on the floor).
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Old 09-11-2013, 02:41 PM   #17
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Just remember ABC and FOX broadcast their nfl games at 720 and NBC and CBS show their games at 1080i,So maybe when you watch a game on those channels you might check and see if your tv or tivo are set at those resolutons maybe it''ll make a difference? just a thought as i dont use OTA just the cable signal from fios.
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