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Old 09-10-2013, 10:09 AM   #241
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Originally Posted by fmowry View Post
Sad this ended up in a ridiculous shootout. I was hoping this episode would end better than that. I guess we'll see how they start out next episode.
I predict a bullet through Hank's melon before we break to initial credits (or whatever the term for that is).
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Old 09-10-2013, 10:14 AM   #242
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The reason they used the lottery ticket in this episode was simply for ease of quick explanation for the viewers. If they had Walt reciting the coordinates over the phone from memory, you'd have some idiot viewers not understanding what was going on. So in order show how Walt can so quickly know the coordinates, they have him pull out the ticket. Picture is worth a thousand words.
And in so doing completely devalued it's already tenuous concept.
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Old 09-10-2013, 10:31 AM   #243
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If only there were some sort of device, or contraption, or "engine," that would (magically?) allow you to type in words and "search" for information on them.
If only there was some sort of device, or contraption, or method to allow one to be smug.
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Old 09-10-2013, 10:45 AM   #244
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If only there was some sort of device, or contraption, or method to allow one to be smug.
You forgot the smiley.
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Old 09-10-2013, 10:50 AM   #245
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I guess we just disagree on how far back you have to go to start laying blame for the shootout. I would look strictly look at the phone call. Once you start going back beyond that, you can always argue to go further. Thus, you think that Jesse trying to burn down the house was the first chain in the link, I would counter with Jesse was reacting to what Walt did to Brock. We can go back and forth all the way to the beginning of the series. To me, Walt made the phone call rather than get back in his car and high tail it out of there, so he's the most to blame and certainly not the least. However, based on your reasoning, I will take back my original statement that I disagree with your assessment as much as anything I've read. I still disagree, but can see where you're coming from.
Actually, my argument wasn't that we could go back further than the phone call; it was just the opposite. My argument was more, "If the phone call makes Walt responsible for the shootout, then why stop there?"

Walt's responsibility for the shootout was that he enabled the gang to find the place by giving them the coordinates. But he did so when he was in fear for his life, and called them off as soon as he realized what was going on. How is it his fault that they ignored his request, and showed up anyway?

At this point, it's clear that he no longer has control over them, and they likely are the ones who are trying to take control. The fact that they weren't careful about not hitting Walt's vehicle shows how much they cared about Walt's "authority". Walt had become nothing more than a means to an end by that point.

I don't see the phone call as being that much different than the gang planting some sort of tracking device on Walt's vehicle, and then following him there. In both cases, Walt wouldn't want them there, but they would come anyway, ignoring his wishes.

If that makes Walt responsible for the shootout, then there are plenty of "ends justify the means" actions that Jesse, Hank, and Gomez took in the chain of events leading to that point that I think qualifies them more.
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Old 09-10-2013, 11:04 AM   #246
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You forgot the smiley.
Why would I use a smiley?
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Old 09-10-2013, 11:11 AM   #247
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Originally Posted by PotentiallyCoherent View Post
How does she (Lydia) know where they are? How is she aware of the situation?
Maybe she's already got a team tracking them, just waiting for a good opportunity to take them out. I'm just trying to think of a logical way that Hank/Gomie/Jesse could survive. None of the other major characters seemed to be a possibility. The other possibility I thought of is Walt agreeing to cook full-time for Todd's uncle if they let Hank/Gomie/Jessie(?) go. But they'd have to stop shooting long enough for Walt to suggest it.
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Old 09-10-2013, 11:17 AM   #248
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Maybe she's already got a team tracking them, just waiting for a good opportunity to take them out. I'm just trying to think of a logical way that Hank/Gomie/Jesse could survive. None of the other major characters seemed to be a possibility. The other possibility I thought of is Walt agreeing to cook full-time for Todd's uncle if they let Hank/Gomie/Jessie(?) go. But they'd have to stop shooting long enough for Walt to suggest it.
That might be the answer. Or at least cook for them long enough to teach Todd how to do it better, then he would get killed. Hey, maybe Hank, Gomie and Jesse are held hostage while Walt cooks.
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Old 09-10-2013, 11:19 AM   #249
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Maybe she's already got a team tracking them, just waiting for a good opportunity to take them out. I'm just trying to think of a logical way that Hank/Gomie/Jesse could survive. None of the other major characters seemed to be a possibility. The other possibility I thought of is Walt agreeing to cook full-time for Todd's uncle if they let Hank/Gomie/Jessie(?) go. But they'd have to stop shooting long enough for Walt to suggest it.
I guess that's possible, as anything is. I think it's an extreme longshot though.
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Old 09-10-2013, 11:28 AM   #250
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Why would I use a smiley?
Whoosh!
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Old 09-10-2013, 11:33 AM   #251
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What lottery has numbers that go up to 150?

That's a lotta ping pong balls.
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Old 09-10-2013, 11:36 AM   #252
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Originally Posted by betts4 View Post
That might be the answer. Or at least cook for them long enough to teach Todd how to do it better, then he would get killed. Hey, maybe Hank, Gomie and Jesse are held hostage while Walt cooks.
I like this idea. But with only a few eps left, it could be hard to cram in all that AND have an ending like the flash-forwards.
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Old 09-10-2013, 11:36 AM   #253
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What lottery has numbers that go up to 150?

That's a lotta ping pong balls.

We covered this already. It's a "Pick 3" game.

Pick 3 single digit numbers. Repeat 5 times.
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Old 09-10-2013, 11:39 AM   #254
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What lottery has numbers that go up to 150?

That's a lotta ping pong balls.
the number go up to nine.
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Old 09-10-2013, 11:41 AM   #255
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betts4, I think that graphic doesn't understand the power of some of those weapons at 20 meters.
My only knowledge of guns is from Hollywood. How does "power" (I'm assuming penetration power) help if you're missing your target? Also, wouldn't a more powerful gun would be less accurate, because of more recoil?
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Old 09-10-2013, 11:41 AM   #256
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1)
Do you think Walt maybe taught Todd a slightly different method so that Todd couldn't exactly reproduce his blue magic, so it was all just Walt's? (However I don't actually believe that, because recently Walt HAS looked like he's done)
I thought that the blue tint came from them having to change some of the chemicals out when they ran out of what they had (the stuff in the 55gal drums they stole from that warehouse).

Correct me if I'm wrong (as I'm sure someone will)
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Old 09-10-2013, 11:42 AM   #257
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I predict a bullet through Hank's melon before we break to initial credits (or whatever the term for that is).
Very much agree.
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Old 09-10-2013, 11:45 AM   #258
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My only knowledge of guns is from Hollywood. How does "power" (I'm assuming penetration power) help if you're missing your target? Also, wouldn't a more powerful gun would be less accurate, because of more recoil?
I assume power means 2 things: how far the bullet will travel and how many bullets you can fire. With a machine gun that has power, it's hard to miss since you just spray your bullets in the general vicinity of the target and a decent percentage will hit the target.

There is no way to miss with the kind of guns some of the nazis were using.

Recoil is not an issue here.
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Old 09-10-2013, 11:49 AM   #259
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The guy had an assault rifle with a scope, right? ...and he fired the first shot, right? Presumably he had someone in his sights. There's no way he should have missed by accident.

Some people should not have guns.
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Old 09-10-2013, 12:01 PM   #260
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Actually, my argument wasn't that we could go back further than the phone call; it was just the opposite. My argument was more, "If the phone call makes Walt responsible for the shootout, then why stop there?"

Walt's responsibility for the shootout was that he enabled the gang to find the place by giving them the coordinates. But he did so when he was in fear for his life, and called them off as soon as he realized what was going on. How is it his fault that they ignored his request, and showed up anyway?

At this point, it's clear that he no longer has control over them, and they likely are the ones who are trying to take control. The fact that they weren't careful about not hitting Walt's vehicle shows how much they cared about Walt's "authority". Walt had become nothing more than a means to an end by that point.

I don't see the phone call as being that much different than the gang planting some sort of tracking device on Walt's vehicle, and then following him there. In both cases, Walt wouldn't want them there, but they would come anyway, ignoring his wishes.

If that makes Walt responsible for the shootout, then there are plenty of "ends justify the means" actions that Jesse, Hank, and Gomez took in the chain of events leading to that point that I think qualifies them more.
But I didn't say Walt was solely at fault, I just disagreed with the comment that he was the least at fault. Granted, the Aryans themselves are arguably more at fault because they came even after being instructed not to. I don't think, however, that Walt is absolved for calling them in the first place just because he changed his mind. He called the Aryans and told them to come to that spot and be ready to kill. They did just that. That he had a change of mind does not erase that he alerted these psychpaths to the situation in the first place (and Walt could have no doubt of the type of people he was dealing with, see dead bicycle boy as exhibit A). He's no less at fault as a guy who hires someone to kill his wife, changes his mind, and the wife still gets killed. At this point we are back at whether Walt was justified in making the call in the first place because he reasonably feared for his life and had no other choice. I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on our respective opinions on that one.
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Old 09-10-2013, 12:03 PM   #261
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I predict a bullet through Hank's melon before we break to initial credits (or whatever the term for that is).
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Very much agree.
This.
Remember, from where we are sitting the shoot out is not yet over.

I'm a little concerned that Hank and Gomie might be wearing bullet proof vests, though. They showed us that Saul was wearing one for a reason, and that reason is usually some sort of foreshadowing.
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Old 09-10-2013, 12:10 PM   #262
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I'm a little concerned that Hank and Gomie might be wearing bullet proof vests, though. They showed us that Saul was wearing one for a reason, and that reason is usually some sort of foreshadowing.
This is an astute observation.

On another point, it will be important dramatically for Walt to see that Hank is dead - and that he set events in motion that resulted in the death.
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Old 09-10-2013, 12:21 PM   #263
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IMO this plan was Hank's not Jessie's. Jessie might have come up with the idea to use Walt's money to get to him....but the details are ALL Hank. Hank came up with the brains, the fake barrell, and put Jessie up to making the phone call.
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Old 09-10-2013, 12:37 PM   #264
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This is an astute observation.

On another point, it will be important dramatically for Walt to see that Hank is dead - and that he set events in motion that resulted in the death.
It's yet to be known if Hank actually does die here, but Hank set these events in motion.
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Old 09-10-2013, 12:50 PM   #265
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I'm a little concerned that Hank and Gomie might be wearing bullet proof vests, though. They showed us that Saul was wearing one for a reason, and that reason is usually some sort of foreshadowing.
Yes....and along with that they also showed us Todd and the gang putting them on.
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Old 09-10-2013, 12:58 PM   #266
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It's yet to be known if Hank actually does die here
I get that, but it's my opinion that Hank's got no chance of getting out alive. No one survives a foreshadowing phone call like that one. #Live4Ever
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Old 09-10-2013, 01:02 PM   #267
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Very much agree.
Perhaps it'll end up looking like the faked image of Jesse with his brains blown out.

Though I suspect with the guns and the range and such that most of the brains would still be in his head. Unless Gomie turns the shotgun on Hank and shoots him close-range.

Gomie breaks bad big time.
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Old 09-10-2013, 01:05 PM   #268
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I believe the phone call pretty much sealed poor Hank's fate. If Hank were going to walk away from this, then why the phone call to Marie?

The phone call to Marie is going to be the nail in Walt's coffin. We are assuming that Gomez and Hank were still working off the grid, correct? So, if not for that phone call, it appears that no one would know where Gomez and Hank had gone. If Walt is able to stop the nazis, and after they kill Gomez and Hank there is no reason to believe he couldn't stop them, they could have easily given them the barrel treatment and they would have just disappeared, like all the others.

But now Marie knows. Marie knows who Hank was with and there is no possible out for him this time.
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Old 09-10-2013, 01:06 PM   #269
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This.
Remember, from where we are sitting the shoot out is not yet over.

I'm a little concerned that Hank and Gomie might be wearing bullet proof vests, though. They showed us that Saul was wearing one for a reason, and that reason is usually some sort of foreshadowing.
Maybe...

I don't think they have vests on, but they might.

Even if they do, however, they get shot and if TV and movies taught me anything, you get shot with a vest on and you are winded for 5-10 minutes and pretty incapacitated. And your gun goes flying off, out of reach.

I would hope that the bad guys quickly check if the downed DEA agents are dead and if not, put one between their eyes.
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Old 09-10-2013, 01:12 PM   #270
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I would hope that the bad guys quickly check if the downed DEA agents are dead and if not, put one between their eyes.
uncdrew breaks bad big time!
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