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Old 09-08-2013, 11:13 AM   #1
ultrajones
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TiVo Roamio - Network Issues

I just setup my new TiVo Roamio - Plus and experienced multiple issues. I essentially removed a Tivo 4 and replaced it with a Tivo Roamio, so I know all the connections work. The first software and guide update completed without any issues. However, it took *hours* with multiple forced connections and reboots to get the Tivo to activate so I could use it. Once activated, I noticed several messages indicating the Tivo was losing network connection to the network. Those messages lasted only a few seconds before it appeared the network was restored. I tried streaming from my other Tivo and it wouldn't let me because it stated the network wasn't working. In addition, Netflix and Hulu would play about 15-30 seconds of a show before indicating a general failure.

I had my Tivo connected to the network as follows:

Tivo 5 <-> NETGEAR GS108Ev2 <-> NETGEAR GS116E <-> Home Router

I even flashed both NETGEAR devices above to the latest firmware, but that didn't resolve the issues.

I was able to resolve all the network issues by simply moving the network connection from the NETGEAR device to my Apple AirPort Extreme.

Tivo 5 <-> AirPort Extreme <-> NETGEAR GS116E <-> Home Router

It looks like the Tivo doesn't like my NETGEAR GS108Ev2 switch.

I hope this may help others that are experiencing issues getting their Tivo Roamio activated.

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Old 09-08-2013, 11:16 AM   #2
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Is it a green switch? Some people have had issues with the Roamio and green switches. I was one of them. As soon as I switched my Green switch to a non green switch my network problems went away with my Roamio Pro.
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Old 09-08-2013, 11:21 AM   #3
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Hmm, yes. the description states: "ProSafe Plus Switches have power-saving Green Ethernet technology".
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Old 09-08-2013, 11:22 AM   #4
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GS116E is 'green'.

Should TiVo work with green switches? Yes. But, really, what's the point of a 'green' switch for home use?
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Old 09-08-2013, 11:23 AM   #5
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I'm really surprised at the number of reports of networking issues when using a green switch with the Roamio, myself included. Is this a common issue with other networking equipment? Or is there possibly something quirky with the Ethernet controller TiVo is using on the Roamio?
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Old 09-08-2013, 11:29 AM   #6
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I'm really surprised at the number of reports of networking issues when using a green switch with the Roamio, myself included. Is this a common issue with other networking equipment? Or is there possibly something quirky with the Ethernet controller TiVo is using on the Roamio?
The quirkiness is probably at the switch end, i.e., the TiVo barfs on one, or both, of the following 'green features', that make no sense for a home environment.

1. It detects link status, allowing each port on the switch to power down into a standby or ‘sleep’ mode when a connected device, such as a computer, is not active.

2. It detects cable length and adjusts the power accordingly.
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Old 09-08-2013, 11:33 AM   #7
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The quirkiness is probably at the switch end, i.e., the TiVo barfs on one, or both, of the following 'green features', that make no sense for a home environment.

1. It detects link status, allowing each port on the switch to power down into a standby or ‘sleep’ mode when a connected device, such as a computer, is not active.

2. It detects cable length and adjusts the power accordingly.
I thought the entire point is to save power? So if I have an eight port switch with only two connections, You save power by not using the other six ports. I use at least sixteen mini switches at home, 8 port and 5 port. But all my ports but half a dozen or so are in use, so I don't think a few ports save me much energy.
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Old 09-08-2013, 11:50 AM   #8
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I'm having significant trouble with my wired connection on a green 8 port switch. I'm dropping my connection constantly and transfers are stopping and really slowing the box down.

This is really weird because my Premiere is on the same switch and works perfectly fine.

It's also really annoying because I don't have another switch and don't want to have to go buy another one. Plus stores in my county (Bergen) are closed on Sunday so it's going to be a pain to get a new one or I have to wait for Amazon. Plus these switches aren't so cheap as I need an 8 port one.
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Old 09-08-2013, 11:52 AM   #9
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I'm having significant trouble with my wired connection on a green 8 port switch. I'm dropping my connection constantly and transfers are stopping and really slowing the box down.

This is really weird because my Premiere is on the same switch and works perfectly fine.

It's also really annoying because I don't have another switch and don't want to have to go buy another one. Plus stores in my county (Bergen) are closed on Sunday so it's going to be a pain to get a new one or I have to wait for Amazon. Plus these switches aren't so cheap as I need an 8 port one.
My two tuner Premiere and four tuner Premiere ELite also had no issues on the green switch that caused issues with my Romaio Pro. But once I changed to a non green switch, my Romaio had no more network issues.

But I was also fortunate to have a box of at least two dozen old Netgear and DLink Gigabit switches I've replaced over the years. So I didn't have to worry about trying to find a new switch.

I used to use Linksys gigabit switches(which were first gen and had fans in them so they were a little noisy), then switched those out to Netgear Gigabit switches(which were white but could be placed vertically), then switched those out to Dlink Gigabit switches. And then when Dlink came out with a new design that I liked better, I switched everything out again to the newer gigabit Dlinks. I certainly did not expect to need to go back to an older switch.
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Old 09-08-2013, 12:04 PM   #10
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There are several other threads here about this issue.

We have TRENDnet TEG-S80g "green" gigabit switches, and our Roamio Pro keeps dropping the network connection. An S3 HD plugged into the same switch has no problems, nor does a PC, and we have tried multiple cables, ports, etc.

I just got off a call with one of TiVo's excellent support people. He made a note of the threads here and will push this up the chain so it can be investigated.

We resolved the situation temporarily by adding an old 100 Mbps switch between the Roamio and the main gigabit switch. I think TC25D (above) is on the right track with why this happens. My theory is that the switch drops power on the port t save energy and TiVo thinks that means the switch has been powered down and connection is lost. Fingers crossed that this can be fixed by a driver update.
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Old 09-08-2013, 12:19 PM   #11
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There are several other threads here about this issue.

We have TRENDnet TEG-S80g "green" gigabit switches, and our Roamio Pro keeps dropping the network connection. An S3 HD plugged into the same switch has no problems, nor does a PC, and we have tried multiple cables, ports, etc.

I just got off a call with one of TiVo's excellent support people. He made a note of the threads here and will push this up the chain so it can be investigated.

We resolved the situation temporarily by adding an old 100 Mbps switch between the Roamio and the main gigabit switch. I think TC25D (above) is on the right track with why this happens. My theory is that the switch drops power on the port t save energy and TiVo thinks that means the switch has been powered down and connection is lost. Fingers crossed that this can be fixed by a driver update.
So it worked for you plugging the Roamio into a regular non-green switch and then plugging that switch into the green one which goes to your router? I just thought I'd have to completely bypass the green switch but you're saying that you can cascade the switches and even though the green one is still in the path from Roamio to router it still works?
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Old 09-08-2013, 12:20 PM   #12
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So it worked for you plugging the Roamio into a regular non-green switch and then plugging that switch into the green one which goes to your router? I just thought I'd have to completely bypass the green switch but you're saying that you can cascade the switches and even though the green one is still in the path from Roamio to router it still works?
It's only the switch that the Romaio is directly connected too. My Roamio pro is connected to a non green switch. But that non green switch runs through two Green switches before connecting to a port on my router.
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Old 09-08-2013, 12:31 PM   #13
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What would be a recommended switch to use? Any hope Tivo will fix this issue? Thanks
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Old 09-08-2013, 07:10 PM   #14
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Exclamation Green Switch problems is BS

I personally find the talk of the Green Switch problem BullSh*t. I say this out of frustration with the Tivo not working like it should. I for one have a green switch and everything worked fine for years with Tivo until I upgraded to the Roamio Plus.

Why is it when networking is concern with Tivo's the first thing everybody says is the "switch" is the problem or the "network cable" is the problem? Why can't it just be buggy software on the Tivo side?

Does anybody just find it kind of odd that multiple people in different threads have a green switch and everything was working fine until they upgraded to the new Roamio and then all hell broke loose with network issue? Sure some people may have fixed their problem by replacing their switch but did they really fix the problem by swapping out the switch? I refuse to believe it is the green switch when all of the past Tivo's work fine until now.

Come on Tivo step up to the plate and say that you have a problem and please don't tell us the solution is to buy a new switch.
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Old 09-08-2013, 08:21 PM   #15
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mburno, nobody is saying the switches are the sole fault. All we are saying is that they are part of the issue. Obviously TiVo is also part of the equation. We're just trying to help people figure out how to get their systems running. If it means bypassing a switch that doesn't play well with TiVo, so be it. I for one already called TiVo Technical Support and told them of the issue, and what I did to work my way around it.

I happen to work in a fairly high end technical video environment, and any time any new gear is added, we expect that something will go unexpectedly wrong. If manufacturers like TiVo waited till they caught every single possible problem, they'd never be able to release anything. The true story with this issue will be told when TiVo does one of two things, either issues a software update that deals with the issue, or issues a statement that claims the hardware they chose isn't compatible with green switches and post that users need to avoid the green switches. I'd hope for former, but if the latter is the answer, then at least they're being honest with their consumers, and you really can't ask for more than that. If they whitewash the issue, then your rant becomes valid. Till then, show TiVo a bit of slack.
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Old 09-09-2013, 09:28 AM   #16
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I personally find the talk of the Green Switch problem BullSh*t. I say this out of frustration with the Tivo not working like it should. I for one have a green switch and everything worked fine for years with Tivo until I upgraded to the Roamio Plus.

Why is it when networking is concern with Tivo's the first thing everybody says is the "switch" is the problem or the "network cable" is the problem? Why can't it just be buggy software on the Tivo side?

Does anybody just find it kind of odd that multiple people in different threads have a green switch and everything was working fine until they upgraded to the new Roamio and then all hell broke loose with network issue? Sure some people may have fixed their problem by replacing their switch but did they really fix the problem by swapping out the switch? I refuse to believe it is the green switch when all of the past Tivo's work fine until now.

Come on Tivo step up to the plate and say that you have a problem and please don't tell us the solution is to buy a new switch.
???
I've used the Dlink green switch for a while with no issues with other TiVos. And when I connected the Roamio to an older Dlink green switch that I had used for years with no problems from devices the Roamio also had the same issues. But when I connected the Roamio to an old Netgear Non green switch there were no issues although the transfer rates were around 3% slower. And when I connected it to a Dlink non green switch, it was also fine. The Dlink switch did not have the 3% hit in transfer speeds so I still get the 190Mb/s+ transfer rates instead of the 185Mb/s transfer rates the Netgear gave me.

Obviously the Roamio should be able to work with the green switches. They have been around for years. The problem is not the switches but the TiVo Romaio. But the only way to fix the issue right now is to use a non green switch. I'm not about to wait around for TiVo to fix it when I already have a solution that works.
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Old 09-09-2013, 09:36 AM   #17
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Why can't it just be buggy software on the Tivo side?
No one said it wasn't a TiVo software issue.

Feel free to sit there with your green switch, your TiVo problem and blame Tivo if that makes you feel better.
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Old 09-09-2013, 10:09 AM   #18
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No one said it wasn't a TiVo software issue.

Feel free to sit there with your green switch, your TiVo problem and blame Tivo if that makes you feel better.
The flip side is that you are saying "home users don't need green switches" which is preposterous. Nearly all affordable gigabit ethernet switches that are aimed towards residential use these days have green features which seem to be causing the problems.

I am fortunate that the switch my TiVo is on does not seem to be causing me trouble, but it is a green switch. My central rack mount switch (24 port) is also green switch. The switches in my home office, master bedroom are also green. Any decent switch you buy today is "green" in that it has link power saving features and shuts ports off that are not in use.

What's the "point" of all those green switches? Maybe the 50+ watts of power savings for devices that are on continuously. While electricity might be cheap for you, there are places in the US where summertime rates approach .40 per kwh, which means even a few watts here and there on vampire devices adds up to several dollars or more per month on the power bill.

From the description of the trouble this does sound like a NIC driver problem on the TiVo. Another workaround for people would be to use Wi-Fi until TiVo gets a fix for this, which hopefully they will.
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Old 09-09-2013, 10:31 AM   #19
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The flip side is that you are saying "home users don't need green switches" which is preposterous.
"Need" - No most home users do not "need" green switches, so it's not 'preposterous'. Just because a vendor offers them, which allows the vendor to spread their costs across business and residential customers, doesn't imply they are "needed" by home owners. There are far more effective places to save electricity than green switches.
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Old 09-09-2013, 10:52 AM   #20
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"Need" - No most home users do not "need" green switches, so it's not 'preposterous'. Just because a vendor offers them, which allows the vendor to spread their costs across business and residential customers, doesn't imply they are "needed" by home owners. There are far more effective places to save electricity than green switches.
A good many of the top selling Ethernet switches on Amazon.com are green switches. Many of the switches available at Best Buy and Staples are also green switches.

Why should the consumer balk at buying a "Green" switch that saves a few watts.... because there are a few oddball (broken) devices out there that might not play well with them?

Your argument is silly. Gigabit Ethernet, auto MDIX crossover and most other features that are now standard on home networking gear (and make for faster easier networking) also came from enterprise networking gear. Guess consumers don't need those either?
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Old 09-09-2013, 12:06 PM   #21
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So everything is working now that I switched to an old Netgear 10/100 switch. I'm in the process of transferring from my 2 premieres. I'm getting about 85Mb/s. Is that what I should be getting? I have a lot to transfer so the faster the better.
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Old 09-09-2013, 01:25 PM   #22
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I donít own a switch yet, but was going to buy one from amazon today. I was looking at a 10/100 from Cisco, but it appears to be a green switch. They all appear to be green. Any better suggestions?
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Old 09-09-2013, 01:41 PM   #23
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I donít own a switch yet, but was going to buy one from amazon today. I was looking at a 10/100 from Cisco, but it appears to be a green switch. They all appear to be green. Any better suggestions?
I have a green switch that is working, I can get the model # later today. Otherwise get a "non green" switch... most of the 10/100 ones are non-green anyway, I would go with one of the older blue metal cased Netgear switches, they are highly reliable.
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Old 09-09-2013, 02:54 PM   #24
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I really hope Tivo fixes this bug soon. While I understand that bugs get through testing this one is pretty bad, especially considering that Premieres work fine on the same ethernet hardware. Plus I'd like to remove the extra switch from my cabinet as it's quite crowded in there already.
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Old 09-09-2013, 04:23 PM   #25
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So everything is working now that I switched to an old Netgear 10/100 switch. I'm in the process of transferring from my 2 premieres. I'm getting about 85Mb/s. Is that what I should be getting? I have a lot to transfer so the faster the better.
Yes those are standard transfer speeds from the Premiere. When transferring to/from a PC though with the Roamio Plus/Pro speeds are more than twice as fast.
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Old 09-10-2013, 12:32 PM   #26
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I have a green switch that is working, I can get the model # later today. Otherwise get a "non green" switch... most of the 10/100 ones are non-green anyway, I would go with one of the older blue metal cased Netgear switches, they are highly reliable.
I just checked and the switch I am using on my Roamio Plus is a 10/100/1000 DLINK green switch. 8 port model, appears to be this one;

http://www.amazon.com/D-Link-8-Port-...k+green+switch

I am not having any trouble with it I am aware of. Netflix HD streams are working great on my Roamio and I have not observed any network disconnects.
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Old 09-10-2013, 12:34 PM   #27
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I just checked and the switch I am using on my Roamio Plus is a 10/100/1000 DLINK green switch. 8 port model, appears to be this one;

http://www.amazon.com/D-Link-8-Port-...k+green+switch

I am not having any trouble with it I am aware of. Netflix HD streams are working great on my Roamio and I have not observed any network disconnects.
That is the model Dlink that I had issues with. What Hardware version is it? Mine is a B1 Hardware version.

I had to find an old A2 Hardware version, from the previous gen Dlink, to get one that would work.

If one of my other newer Dlink switches is the same hardware version as yous I can try swapping that out from another location and using that with my Roamio Pro.
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Old 09-10-2013, 12:39 PM   #28
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I can't determine the hardware version because it is in a pretty inaccessible location. According to Amazon it was purchased on March 30th of 2012.
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Old 09-10-2013, 12:42 PM   #29
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Same here, I have the D-Link 8 port and have issues, but they are specific to streaming and downloading on my iPAD. Mine was purchased from Amazon on 4/2011.

If I have the Tivo on (not in standby), it connects ok. By ok, it might download 2-3 shows before a download failure. If it is in Standby mode, I keep getting errors and it cannot connect.

My Elite had no issues at all and seemed to work better.
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Old 09-10-2013, 12:43 PM   #30
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Just a quick check of some of my switches and they all seem to be version B1 hardware for me.
I got all of mine last Summer. So I'm guessing they are probably all the same hardware version.

The older one I'm using now I got in 2007.

Edit: And the older Netgear gigabit switch that worked I got in 2004/2005.

EDIT: I guess I'll just leave the older link in place for the Roamio. It's working fine so I might as well keep it there and use it. Although the design isn't as nice as the newer Dlink switches.
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