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Old 09-07-2013, 08:14 AM   #1
WRX09MD
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Moca off on Verizon Router

I have A Verizon Router and a linksys EA 4500. I have the linksys functioning as my primary router in the house. When I Hooked up my Roamio and tried to use moca on it to connect my mini upstairs it screwed everything up with my Linksys. It looks like the Roamio was picking up the ip from the verizon Router. I have the Roamio connecting to the linksys with moca turned off and as soon as I turn moca on it jumps ship.

What can I do to keep the moca running on my Linksys network and not verizons? Will a filter somewhere work? How can I keep the Roamio from straying onto the Verizon? Drove me crazy all night trying to fix this. Thanks for any i put.
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Old 09-07-2013, 10:08 AM   #2
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What brand/model Verizon router do you have. That will help in developing some troubleshooting suggestions. It would also help to have a basic understanding of how the various devices involved are connected.

Also which Roamio do you have?

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Old 09-07-2013, 12:53 PM   #3
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I have the actiontec MI424WR router running my coax feeds in the house and ethernet from verizon to my to my linksys router EA4500. I have my linksys on its own IP feeding all of my ethernets in the house which is the feed I want to run moca on for my Roamio plus with two mini's. when I turn on moca on the plus its IP is saying its seeing the verizon router and screwing with my local lan from the linksys.

How can I block the plus from seeing the Verizon IP and only seeing the my linksys network? Not sure if thats what I need it to do or if there is a better way to stop the crosstalk. Can I turn the moca off on the verizon router or will the plus still pick it up. Will a filter block the plus from the actiontec? Thanks again for some ideas and help.
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Old 09-07-2013, 01:05 PM   #4
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You CAN stop the Verizon router from creating a MoCA network but that is not necessary. Try having the Roamio just join the existing network.

The Roamio should have no EtherNet cable attached. In the Network Settings screen simply choose MoCA as network type. The Verizon router will be acting as bridge between MoCA and EtherNet.

Only the Linksys is set to distribute IP addresses yes?

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Old 09-07-2013, 01:30 PM   #5
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You CAN stop the Verizon router from creating a MoCA network but that is not necessary. Try having the Roamio just join the existing network.

The Roamio should have no EtherNet cable attached. In the Network Settings screen simply choose MoCA as network type. The Verizon router will be acting as bridge between MoCA and EtherNet.

Only the Linksys is set to distribute IP addresses yes?

michael
I think I need to stop the Verizon from creating the moca network because thats what the TiVo is seeing for the network because Verizon is creating it.

I want the TiVo connected to the Linksys lan which I have wired and have the TiVo create the moca network from the Linksys.

The Verizon router has an IP but my Linksys has one also that I gave it because the two conflicted with each other. Anytime I connect something I always pick up or use the Linksys.

Not sure what you mean about linksys only distributing ip's. its the only one I use in the house.
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Old 09-07-2013, 01:54 PM   #6
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This Verizon router by default assigns IP addresses to all connected devices.

Here is a link to the user manual for the router: Just choose an download the specific one you need. You connect to and interact with the router using your browser.

You connect to the Cable Modem/Router using any browser. I expect that the default user id and password settings will not have been changed.

Navigate to the MoCA screen and disable the router from creating a MoCA network.

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Old 09-07-2013, 03:06 PM   #7
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mdscott has given the correct instructions for what you have asked. But this isn't the best configuration with the equipment you have. You would be far better having the Roamio and the mini both connect by moca to the Verizon router. If it is a problem having the devices connected to the two routers on different subnets then put the Linksys router into bridge mode.
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Old 09-07-2013, 03:15 PM   #8
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This Verizon router by default assigns IP addresses to all connected devices.

Here is a link to the user manual for the router: Just choose an download the specific one you need. You connect to and interact with the router using your browser.

You connect to the Cable Modem/Router using any browser. I expect that the default user id and password settings will not have been changed.

Navigate to the MoCA screen and disable the router from creating a MoCA network.

michael
Thanks on the info, I have read the manual and have been in the verizon settings and cant figure out how to turn it off. Verizon rep stated that I cant turn it off bcause I will lose my internet feed which the virizon router converts it to ethernet for me which I need for the linksys. He also stated I could get another brand router with moca built in and get rid of the verizon one and have everything running off of the new router.

I have now run the Roamio with the 2 minis off of the verizon moca network and am using my linksys for everything else in the house. I suppose it really doesnt matter if you have two seperate networks going in the house as long as it works for what I need.

If there is anymore useful info I could try to get it all on the same linksys network besides running ethernet to the minis Im willing to try it.

Thanks again
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Old 09-07-2013, 03:45 PM   #9
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The only problem you may have is that mobile devices running the Tivo app and connected to the Linksys by wifi may not see the Tivos because the are on a different subnet. If this is the case, and if it matters to you, then the solution is to put the Linksys into bridge mode. This will put all your devices, whether connected to the Verizon router or the Linksys, onto the same subnet.
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Old 09-07-2013, 03:57 PM   #10
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The only problem you may have is that mobile devices running the Tivo app and connected to the Linksys by wifi may not see the Tivos because the are on a different subnet. If this is the case, and if it matters to you, then the solution is to put the Linksys into bridge mode. This will put all your devices, whether connected to the Verizon router or the Linksys, onto the same subnet.
Very true, i would have realized that later when I tried to connect to it. I forgot to mention that I have another Roamio downstairs for me which is still connected to my linksys so wifi will work on that for me. The other Roamio and minis are upstairs for the wife and kids which I don't need to connect to but would be nice to.

I have read about bridging the linksys but looks a little bit over my head or just scares me a bit. What are the cons of the linksys if I do this. Remember I want to use the linksys for all wired and wireless connections but use verizon router for moca. Im willing to try it and would like to be able to do it to access everything. I have read that it shuts some things down in the linksys when this is done. It doesnt look to complicated to do it but dont want to lose any features of the linksys. Thanks for the help.
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Old 09-07-2013, 04:21 PM   #11
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I have read about bridging the linksys but looks a little bit over my head or just scares me a bit. What are the cons of the linksys if I do this. Remember I want to use the linksys for all wired and wireless connections but use verizon router for moca. Im willing to try it and would like to be able to do it to access everything. I have read that it shuts some things down in the linksys when this is done. It doesnt look to complicated to do it but dont want to lose any features of the linksys. Thanks for the help.
You would only need to make one change: in the Linksys configuration there should be an option called something like router mode with options like DHCP, NAT and Bridge. Make a note of the current setting, then change it to Bridge mode and check if everything works the way you want. If not, change it back.
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Old 09-07-2013, 04:27 PM   #12
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This is what I was reading and is a little more involved then what you said. Also speaks of losing things too. I think Im gonna do a little more research on this before I move on with it. Anything else about this you can think of is greatly appreciated.


http://kb.linksys.com/Linksys/GetArt...ridge_mode.xml
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Old 09-07-2013, 07:13 PM   #13
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[quote=WRX09MD;9804036Verizon rep stated that I cant turn it off bcause I will lose my internet feed which the virizon router converts it to ethernet for me which I need for the linksys. He also stated I could get another brand router with moca built in and get rid of the verizon one and have everything running off of the new router.
[/QUOTE]

JUst to add a bit more fuel to fire: the MI424WR router does have MoCA capability built in -- it is designed to create a MoCA network as well as serve as the DHCP server for both the MoCA and EtherNet sections of your network.

Sccoby Doo has a good suggestion is having the serve as a bridge/hub. it may also help to think of a single network as opposed to a MoCA network, an ethernet network and a wireless network.

The more devices which are interconnected via wires either Cat5 (ethernet) or coax (MoCA) the better the performance and ultimate;ly the user experience.

There may be up front effort but in the end it should be worth it.

Finally from some bedtime reading - Instructions on using a second (such as a Linksys) router in your Verizon originated network.

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Last edited by mdscott : 09-07-2013 at 07:26 PM. Reason: clarification re last link
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Old 09-07-2013, 07:15 PM   #14
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ps to WRX09MD -- Lived 20 year in Pittsburgh -- but I am overlooking your signature.
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Old 09-07-2013, 07:31 PM   #15
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FWIW I had a similar situation where i was bridging the Verizon router and letting my Linksys dual N router handle DHCP, wireless, etc, when I added MoCA devices in I had a variety of odd issues, in the end I stepped back and evaluated what was most important, and ease of setup was top, so i did the following:
Let the ActionTec handle DHCP and network assignments, let it bridge MoCA and ethernet.
Turned the Linksys into just a wireless AP and pulled DHCP off it.

All my issues went away, and everything was 100% easier to manage.
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Old 09-07-2013, 08:19 PM   #16
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Let the ActionTec handle DHCP and network assignments, let it bridge MoCA and ethernet.
Turned the Linksys into just a wireless AP and pulled DHCP off it.

All my issues went away, and everything was 100% easier to manage.
That is what I am suggesting. Glad it worked for you.
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Old 09-07-2013, 08:24 PM   #17
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This is what I was reading and is a little more involved then what you said. Also speaks of losing things too. I think Im gonna do a little more research on this before I move on with it. Anything else about this you can think of is greatly appreciated.


http://kb.linksys.com/Linksys/GetArt...ridge_mode.xml
Those directions are sort of horrible. If you are already familiar with the process for changing configuration options on your Linksys, which by the sound of it you are, then you can just go in and make one configuration change as I suggested and you are done. You aren't losing anything: the note just says that the Linksys no longer provides DHCP or firewall, which of course is correct. But these functions are provided by the Verizon router; at the moment you are duplicating this functionality, which is not actually a good thing.
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Old 09-07-2013, 09:20 PM   #18
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Thanks to everyone for all the suggestions. Im going to give it a whirl tomorrow and see what happens. I definitely would like to have it all working properly. Which ports on the two routers need to be connected when I bridge it?? I would do it tonight but the wifey is on the computer taking some classes and if she looses connection I'm in for it. Lol.
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Old 09-07-2013, 09:23 PM   #19
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ps to WRX09MD -- Lived 20 year in Pittsburgh -- but I am overlooking your signature.
I spent the 4th in Pittsburgh last year. Stayed in that hotel across the river from the stadium. Nice city. I thought your profile name was from MD.
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Old 09-07-2013, 09:26 PM   #20
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I spent the 4th in Pittsburgh last year. Stayed in that hotel across the river from the stadium. Nice city. I thought your profile name was from MD.
just first & middle initials. Mostly enjoyed Pittsburgh but glad to be back home in SoCal with 6 grandkids.
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Old 09-07-2013, 09:30 PM   #21
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FWIW I had a similar situation where i was bridging the Verizon router and letting my Linksys dual N router handle DHCP, wireless, etc, when I added MoCA devices in I had a variety of odd issues, in the end I stepped back and evaluated what was most important, and ease of setup was top, so i did the following:
Let the ActionTec handle DHCP and network assignments, let it bridge MoCA and ethernet.
Turned the Linksys into just a wireless AP and pulled DHCP off it.

All my issues went away, and everything was 100% easier to manage.
Is there any way you could let me know exactly what ports need to be connected via ethernet to get the two to bridge properly? Thanks
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Old 09-07-2013, 09:32 PM   #22
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Thanks to everyone for all the suggestions. Im going to give it a whirl tomorrow and see what happens. I definitely would like to have it all working properly. Which ports on the two routers need to be connected when I bridge it?? I would do it tonight but the wifey is on the computer taking some classes and if she looses connection I'm in for it. Lol.
As to ports no real magic or difference. Bridge mode simply means that the device is basically acting as a conduit and not being "active" such as assigning IP address via DDHCP, etc.

Take a shot at it and if there are problems check back. We'll be here -- except for me starting 1 PM EDT on CBS
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Old 09-07-2013, 10:51 PM   #23
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Take a shot at it and if there are problems check back. We'll be here -- except for me starting 1 PM EDT on CBS
Me too. Go Texans! There will always be a use-case for live TV.
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Old 09-08-2013, 02:40 AM   #24
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Thanks on the info, I have read the manual and have been in the verizon settings and cant figure out how to turn it off. Verizon rep stated that I cant turn it off bcause I will lose my internet feed which the virizon router converts it to ethernet for me which I need for the linksys. He also stated I could get another brand router with moca built in and get rid of the verizon one and have everything running off of the new router.

I have now run the Roamio with the 2 minis off of the verizon moca network and am using my linksys for everything else in the house. I suppose it really doesnt matter if you have two seperate networks going in the house as long as it works for what I need.

If there is anymore useful info I could try to get it all on the same linksys network besides running ethernet to the minis Im willing to try it.

Thanks again
I don't think the rep was correct. If you login into the MI424WR's web interface and click go to network connections you should see both a "Coax" and "Broadband Connection (Coax)". The Broadband connection is the WAN feed coming in from outside, and the router bridges that to ethernet. If you look at the full status you'll see that that is the one that has an external IP address. The one that is just "Coax" is the LAN moca that the router is feeding out into the coax for any moca connected devices, and it should be possible to just disable that. If you had a verizon set-top box, they do use moca for VOD and other features, so he might also have been thinking about that when he said you couldn't disable it.

However I've generally found that any setup that depends on changing the Actiontec MI424WR settings too far from its basic setup seems doomed to failure. I spent two days trying to get my network setup with my Asus wireless router as primary, with the Actiontec just acting as a double bridge (moca WAN to ethernet LAN, ethernet WAN to moca LAN). In the end I gave up when I couldn't get the devices on the Asus side to see the devices connected via moca. But even if I had gotten that working my Actiontec seems prone to resetting itself to factory settings, and it ended up being way too complicated of a setup for me to want to do over and over again. And one of the key settings for the bridge I was trying (enabling Ethernet WAN) was resetting on a power cycle. And I definitely don't want to have to tweak the router settings every time the power goes out.

In the end I followed the same instructions that mdscott posted above about using a second router in your Verizon network, and it only took about 30 minutes and I had a integrated moca, ethernet, and wireless network, with the Asus acting as a wireless access point (so I can at least have decent wireless bandwidth.)

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Old 09-08-2013, 09:02 AM   #25
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FWIW I had a similar situation where i was bridging the Verizon router and letting my Linksys dual N router handle DHCP, wireless, etc, when I added MoCA devices in I had a variety of odd issues, in the end I stepped back and evaluated what was most important, and ease of setup was top, so i did the following:
Let the ActionTec handle DHCP and network assignments, let it bridge MoCA and ethernet.
Turned the Linksys into just a wireless AP and pulled DHCP off it.

All my issues went away, and everything was 100% easier to manage.
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That is what I am suggesting. Glad it worked for you.
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Originally Posted by Bramble View Post

In the end I followed the same instructions that mdscott posted above about using a second router in your Verizon network, and it only took about 30 minutes and I had a integrated moca, ethernet, and wireless network, with the Asus acting as a wireless access point (so I can at least have decent wireless bandwidth.)
OP, You've got 3 of us all suggesting that this option is the most reliable and easiest to use, that's not a coincidence
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Old 09-08-2013, 03:28 PM   #26
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OK Everyone,

First of all thanks for all of your input and push to get this done right. I now have everything running properly. All of my Tivos are on moca and everything else in the house is either wired or wireless on the lan and I am using the Linksys as the wireless. I am able to access all of the Tivo hardaware in the app also. Thank god I had a laptop to use because unhooking everything to do this next to my desktop would have been a pain in the A$$. I will share my knowledge with this in the near future at my cousins house. Thanks again.
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Old 09-08-2013, 04:49 PM   #27
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Very glad it worked out !!
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Old 09-08-2013, 05:07 PM   #28
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Very glad it worked out !!
Both of us are 0-1. Lets see how the rest of the season works out for us. Thanks again.
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Old 09-08-2013, 05:11 PM   #29
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Both of us are 0-1. Lets see how the rest of the season works out for us. Thanks again.
Yeah, but the Steelers pulled off (er were given) an unassisted Safety on the first kick of the season. Hard to top that.
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Old 09-08-2013, 07:56 PM   #30
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Well I thought all was well. The Roamio that I have being used for my two mini's seems to lose network and is kicking the minis off. It comes right back in a few seconds and the minis will reconnect. When I try to access that Roamio with the TiVo app it says unable to connect and when I retry it connects. Any suggestions with this issue? My other Roamio hasn't had any connection issues at all. All are running moca. Anything to do with static IP's maybe. Should I do a reboot on everything? Thanks again and sorry for dragging this out. I will prevail sooner or later. Thanks again.
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