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Old 09-04-2013, 04:05 PM   #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zevida View Post
Walt has indirectly caused the death of a lot of other innocents.
Aside from the passengers aboard the plane that collided in mid-air because Jane's father screwed up (which I have no doubt some people here will blame on Walt -- though I'd argue that these are the fault of Jane's father, not Walt, otherwise everything can just be blamed on a butterfly someplace), can you name an innocent who died directly or even indirectly because of Walt? I want to know what you define as "an innocent."
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Old 09-04-2013, 04:05 PM   #212
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What about the lawyer Mike hired to deliver money to his guys? He was one of the ones hit in prison. I guess he's a grey area innocent.
Someone who was hired by a criminal to pay other criminals to keep quiet? That's not a grey area at all. That's a player in the game, and therefore not an innocent.

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Walt has indirectly caused the death of a lot of other innocents.
That's what I'm asking. Besides Brock, who else has Walt harmed that was not somehow a player in the game? People who partook of his blue meth? Those people aren't innocents. They were going to get meth one way or another. Family members of those who used Walt's blue meth? They would have been the family members of someone who used a different kind of meth.

I guess if you want to talk about the passengers on the 737 that crashed, then maybe an argument could be made. But that's so indirect that it's hardly surprising that Walt wouldn't feel responsible for that.
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Old 09-04-2013, 04:08 PM   #213
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Jane. Walt didn't harm her but he didn't save her when he could have.
You could argue that Walt was just looking out for Jesse by not saving Jane. If she had lived, it was just a matter of time before she would OD'd again, and the next time Jesse might have OD'd as well.
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Old 09-04-2013, 04:09 PM   #214
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Jane. Walt didn't harm her but he didn't save her when he could have.
She was hardly innocent. She was blackmailing Walt.
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Old 09-04-2013, 04:11 PM   #215
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I think this was posted after the first half of S5 finished airing, but it's always fun to look at:



According to this, Walt is only directly responsible for 11 murders, but that's obviously VERY debateable, because many of the deaths that are attributed to other killers are directly as a result of Walt, such as Gus Fring (attributed to Tio Salamanca) and all of Mike's guys in prison (attributed to "Multiple Assailants").
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Old 09-04-2013, 04:28 PM   #216
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That's what I'm asking. Besides Brock, who else has Walt harmed that was not somehow a player in the game?
Here are a few:
Jane's father was harmed.
Hank was harmed.
The White children are being harmed with all of the lies and deception.
Marie is harmed. Aunts (and likely uncles) can feel her concern about her nieces and nephews remaining in the White household. I'd want to kidnap my nieces and nephews in similar conditions.
The family of the kid that was killed after the train heist was harmed.
People were harmed at the nursing home. The emotional harm on the staff, residents, and their families can't be discounted. Even if no one else was physically hurt, the cost of the insurance is borne by others.
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Old 09-04-2013, 04:35 PM   #217
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Here are a few:
Jane's father was harmed.
Hank was harmed.
The White children are being harmed with all of the lies and deception.
Marie is harmed. Aunts (and likely uncles) can feel her concern about her nieces and nephews remaining in the White household. I'd want to kidnap my nieces and nephews in similar conditions.
The family of the kid that was killed after the train heist was harmed.
People were harmed at the nursing home. The emotional harm on the staff, residents, and their families can't be discounted. Even if no one else was physically hurt, the cost of the insurance is borne by others.
Jane wasn't an innocent.
Hank isn't an innocent.
Walt Jr. and Holly have no idea what's going on, so no harm at this point.
Marie stopped being an innocent when she tried to kidnap Holly.
Walt didn't kill Drew Sharp.

We're talking about physical harm that Walt inflicts and should feel remorse for. Are there intangible harms being done because of Walt's actions? Sure. But that's not really what we're talking about here.
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Old 09-04-2013, 04:36 PM   #218
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You could argue that Walt was just looking out for Jesse by not saving Jane. If she had lived, it was just a matter of time before she would OD'd again, and the next time Jesse might have OD'd as well.
Actually, I think if Jane was willing to extort Walt, she's be willing to roll over on him the second she's arrested for drug use/abuse/DWI, etc. Because she was a huge risk for exposing Heisenberg, I believe that's why Walt let her die.. and only secondarily because of the harm she might have caused to Jesse.
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Old 09-04-2013, 04:38 PM   #219
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We're talking about physical harm that Walt inflicts and should feel remorse for.
What about those two laundry workers that Walt recruited to help clean up the superlab? They were innocent (not involved in the meth production), but the last we saw them, they were being escorted "elsewhere"... while we don't know what happened, I do believe they were harmed, even if they were (best case) deported, and (worst case) took a trip to Belize.
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Old 09-04-2013, 04:42 PM   #220
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What about those two laundry workers that Walt recruited to help clean up the superlab? They were innocent (not involved in the meth production), but the last we saw them, they were being escorted "elsewhere"... while we don't know what happened, I do believe they were harmed, even if they were (best case) deported, and (worst case) took a trip to Belize.
I don't think anyone working in that laundry wasn't aware there was something going on that they were to stay away from and not talk about.
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Old 09-04-2013, 04:43 PM   #221
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They're still pretty innocent on the scale. Just because they might know "something" was going on that they were told to stay away from, they're no longer innocent, when they need those jobs to feed their family?
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Old 09-04-2013, 04:49 PM   #222
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They're still pretty innocent on the scale. Just because they might know "something" was going on that they were told to stay away from, they're no longer innocent, when they need those jobs to feed their family?
Walt needs to feed his family too. That's not what makes one "innocent."
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Old 09-04-2013, 04:50 PM   #223
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So nobody working in or for the laundry is innocent? That's a pretty strict interpretation.
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Old 09-04-2013, 04:50 PM   #224
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I am 99% sure Walt lives.
I am 100% sure Skylar and Hank's wife live.
I am 90% sure Hank lives.
I am 50% sure Jesse lives.
I am 75% sure Saul lives.
I think you are waaaay too optimistic on almost all of these.
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Old 09-04-2013, 05:01 PM   #225
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What about those two laundry workers that Walt recruited to help clean up the superlab? They were innocent (not involved in the meth production), but the last we saw them, they were being escorted "elsewhere"... while we don't know what happened, I do believe they were harmed, even if they were (best case) deported, and (worst case) took a trip to Belize.
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They're still pretty innocent on the scale. Just because they might know "something" was going on that they were told to stay away from, they're no longer innocent, when they need those jobs to feed their family?
I don't remember the specifics of this, but I do remember that I didn't get the sense these women were harmed. They were probably given some hush money and relocated.
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Old 09-04-2013, 05:28 PM   #226
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Actually, I think if Jane was willing to extort Walt, she's be willing to roll over on him the second she's arrested for drug use/abuse/DWI, etc. Because she was a huge risk for exposing Heisenberg, I believe that's why Walt let her die.. and only secondarily because of the harm she might have caused to Jesse.
Which is why I said "you could argue"...
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Old 09-04-2013, 05:36 PM   #227
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I think this was posted after the first half of S5 finished airing, but it's always fun to look at:

<snip>

According to this, Walt is only directly responsible for 11 murders, but that's obviously VERY debateable, because many of the deaths that are attributed to other killers are directly as a result of Walt, such as Gus Fring (attributed to Tio Salamanca) and all of Mike's guys in prison (attributed to "Multiple Assailants").
Lydia needs to be on that Periodic Table, as she initially put Mike's guys on the list.
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Old 09-04-2013, 06:02 PM   #228
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Lydia needs to be on that Periodic Table, as she initially put Mike's guys on the list.
She'd be lumped in with the "Multiple Assailants." Uncle Jack and crew would be in there as well. And if the chart us updated to include the stuff from the final episodes, the Lydia/Todd/Uncle Jack crew will be responsible for a whole bunch more deaths.
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Old 09-04-2013, 07:45 PM   #229
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She was hardly innocent. She was blackmailing Walt.
I would count her as an innocent to a point. She was not involved with the "business" per se.
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Old 09-04-2013, 07:59 PM   #230
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I think you are waaaay too optimistic on almost all of these.


We'll see...
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Old 09-04-2013, 08:20 PM   #231
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In the Christian vade mecum Lydia is a seller of purple. It's true, look it up!

So, I'm thinking about Banjo Eyes and and Marie on a beach in Belize going through cabana boys like Gus going through gizzards. The End.

(As the credits roil over the scene Skyler is in the background participating in a bikini car wash fund raiser. She's vacuuming interiors and we wish she weren't.)
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Old 09-05-2013, 05:58 AM   #232
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No matter how good a deal he makes, Jesse is gonna do some time now, and hafta dodge Uncle Jack's minions in prison.
Especially since he didn't talk to a lawyer before giving all (or at least some of) the details to Hank and Gomez.
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Old 09-05-2013, 06:02 AM   #233
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Actually, I think if Jane was willing to extort Walt, she's be willing to roll over on him the second she's arrested for drug use/abuse/DWI, etc. Because she was a huge risk for exposing Heisenberg, I believe that's why Walt let her die.. and only secondarily because of the harm she might have caused to Jesse.
I think Walt letting Jane die was less of a true concern for Jesse and more of a way to get rid of the distraction that was causing issues with his budding empire.
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Old 09-05-2013, 06:06 AM   #234
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What does everyone think are the chances that Jesse saw the lottery ticket and either a) took it just because or b) took it realizing it was some kind of hint.

Before we knew that Hank had intercepted Jesse's arson attempt, I thought maybe Jesse had found the lottery ticket, someone figured out what it meant (okay, maybe a long-shot, especially in his state of mind), and bolted. Of course, that left a question as to why he left the car, but it turns out this wasn't it anyway.
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Old 09-05-2013, 06:15 AM   #235
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What does everyone think are the chances that Jesse saw the lottery ticket and either a) took it just because or b) took it realizing it was some kind of hint...
Extremely slim to none...
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Old 09-05-2013, 09:05 AM   #236
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Of course if Jesse had burned the house down then the lottery ticket would have been useless. Thus proving.......ahh never mind.

On the podcast this week Gilligan said definitively that this is season 5B AND that Jesse has said Walter White before.
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Old 09-05-2013, 01:57 PM   #237
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Of course if Jesse had burned the house down then the lottery ticket would have been useless. Thus proving.......ahh never mind.

On the podcast this week Gilligan said definitively that this is season 5B AND that Jesse has said Walter White before.
Yes. He has.
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Old 09-05-2013, 02:13 PM   #238
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I know, Vince Gilligan said
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Old 09-05-2013, 02:34 PM   #239
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Yes. He has.
Wow...I hadn't recalled that...I thought this was the first time. I was so impressed with his saying it!

Oh, well...I am LOVING this season anyway...can't believe only 4 more eps!!!
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Old 09-05-2013, 02:56 PM   #240
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In the last 2 weeks I've watched The Walking Dead and Breaking Bad. Talk about 2 great shows.
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