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Old 09-03-2013, 06:58 PM   #31
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Dr Who in produced and marketed in England as a childrens show.

I just have to assume British Children are more mature than their American counterparts.

I never saw kids shows like that growing up.


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Old 09-03-2013, 08:08 PM   #32
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Dr Who in produced and marketed in England as a childrens show.

I just have to assume British Children are more mature than their American counterparts.

I never saw kids shows like that growing up.


phox
Is it really, though? I've always understood the (sadly, now former) Sarah Jane Adventures to be the real children's show in the Doctor Who universe, Torchwood to be the obviously adult show in the universe, and Doctor Who to be right in the middle as more of a 'family' show.
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Old 09-03-2013, 09:21 PM   #33
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Old 09-03-2013, 09:57 PM   #34
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Old 09-03-2013, 10:16 PM   #35
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Is it really, though? I've always understood the (sadly, now former) Sarah Jane Adventures to be the real children's show in the Doctor Who universe, Torchwood to be the obviously adult show in the universe, and Doctor Who to be right in the middle as more of a 'family' show.
Either last Series, or the one before, when they still did Confidentials, they had a contest for pretty young kids to write mini episode in their school classes, then they had the winners come to the set and they made the episode.

They also showed fan meet-n-greets and there were a whole lot of kids showing up in England, mainly young adults in the US (and some much older).


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Old 09-03-2013, 10:22 PM   #36
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Is it really, though? I've always understood the (sadly, now former) Sarah Jane Adventures to be the real children's show in the Doctor Who universe, Torchwood to be the obviously adult show in the universe, and Doctor Who to be right in the middle as more of a 'family' show.
Found this quote attributed to Moffat:

"Everyone by the end of the opening music is a kid! It is watched by more adults than kids, but there is something at its heart, which belongs to children. All the best stuff is children's. You look at a risotto on a menu and you see the children's menu and there's sausage and chips. All the good stuff belongs to children."

I find Grimm's Fairy Tales scarier than anything on Doctor Who.
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Old 09-03-2013, 10:39 PM   #37
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Ereth, I think you would enjoy this series if you set your expectations properly. Its not a drama like ST:TNG, or Babylon 5. However, there come some very well thought out plot points that make Babylon 5 look like Battlestar Galactica. Think of it in the vein of Buffy. It has its funny moments, and some drama (though Buffy is more dramatic.) Also, you have to just go with it sometimes. Its science fiction, emphasis on the fiction. Just keep in mind that a sonic screwdriver can do just about anything, and the laws of physics are made to be broken. The first episode (Rose) kind of sets the tempo: plastic men. If you're ok with animated plastic, and not thinking about how they move or are there wires, are they cyborgs, or how they communicate, then you'll be fine.
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Old 09-03-2013, 11:08 PM   #38
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If I were to pick out a single outstanding episode, my choice would be School Reunion (2005 Who Season 2 episode 3).

You get a fabulous performance by Tony Head. You have David Tennant. You have the return of Liz Sladen as Sarah Jane. You have K-9. The companions are fun. Just a great solid episode all around.

My favorite Eccleston moment is in "Dalek".
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Old 09-03-2013, 11:34 PM   #39
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I just watched the first 2005 episode "Rose". I enjoyed it quite a bit, but I must admit the plastic men made me think I should watch "Westworld" and I was terribly amused that Rose didn't notice how plastic her boyfriend was.

There were a couple of laugh out loud moments and I still have no idea what Rose said just before she made the heroic swing to save the day, but I enjoyed it quite a bit.

I'm not ALWAYS picky about SF. I love "Quark", after all. It felt more like Twilight Zone than Star Trek, but that's ok, I love the Zone.

Oh, and I spent significant time thinking how sad it is that they don't sell that model VW Beetle in America any more, and also that having a black man stuck to the trash can in a clear "tar baby" moment would get so MUCH grief were it done in America.
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Old 09-03-2013, 11:45 PM   #40
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..and I was terribly amused that Rose didn't notice how plastic her boyfriend was.
This is exactly the sort of thing we pick on as "Campy". And after 50 years, it's just part of the charm of the show.

If this silliness at times amuses you, you'll do fine

Edit: Also, neither the Autons, nor the Nestene Consciousness are new enemies. So some of their look was sortof a throwback to the original costumes. That happens here and there....
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Old 09-03-2013, 11:54 PM   #41
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Well, I do know about Daleks. Robots who plan to take over the universe who are stymied by stairs. Gotta love that.

It always reminded me a bit of "John Carter" because stairs were never invented on Barsoom and everything had ramps (no need for an Americans with Disabilities Act to implement them there) and Barsoomians were confused by stairs, too.
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Old 09-03-2013, 11:55 PM   #42
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Oh, and the plastic headless boyfriend with cubes for hands smashing everything in sight in a very Japanese Monster Movie mode was actually a laugh out loud moment for me.
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Old 09-04-2013, 12:18 AM   #43
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Now I really want to go back and watch Eccleston and Tennant again. And the Sarah Jane Adventures.
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Old 09-04-2013, 12:23 AM   #44
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So, with all the discussion of various companions and the Doctor being regenerated, I'm wondering if there's any overt discussion of Michael Moorcocks "Eternal Champion" who is always summoned when needed, and who is accompanied by the "Eternal Companion" who may or may not know that he/she is the companion to the Champion. The Champion usually has a cursed weapon of great power.

From a very cursory glance it appears the Doctor might fit, though I don't know enough about the sonic screwdriver yet, but all the other parts seem to be there for him to be an aspect of the Eternal Champion, even if not overtly.
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Old 09-04-2013, 12:28 AM   #45
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Well, Google is your friend. Moorcock himself wrote a Dr Who novel featuring the 10th Doctor and Jerry Cornelius. Getting Cornelius into the Whoverse (is that a thing?) must've been very interesting, though I confess I prefer the Dancers at the End of Times Jherek Carnelian more. I can almost imagine the Doctor arriving at the End of Time, but the Morphail Effect would make that problematic.
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Old 09-04-2013, 12:32 AM   #46
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You! More watching! Less over-analyzing based on one episode!

You're like a man with a single point on a graph in front of him, who's not only extrapolating a whole line, but also working on fitting a series of curves.

There are only so many themes in the world. There are bound to be similarities to other fiction.

You have more than enough work to do to find the running themes within the series, without polluting the process with running themes from other works of fiction....

<Note, this post was meant to be tongue-in-cheek amusing - apologies if it missed the mark>
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Old 09-04-2013, 12:47 AM   #47
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No, it's funny. I got it immediately.

I just happen to be a big fan of Moorcock and his Eternal Champion concept and see it everywhere. Batman and Robin can even be argued to be aspects. It's just a wild hair thought I had. I have lots of those. It's fun.
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Old 09-04-2013, 01:18 AM   #48
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I just watched the first 2005 episode "Rose". I enjoyed it quite a bit, but I must admit the plastic men made me think I should watch "Westworld" and I was terribly amused that Rose didn't notice how plastic her boyfriend was.
If you enjoyed Rose, then I think it's safe to say you'll enjoy Doctor Who. Rose was one of the worst episodes of the regenerated series. Which isn't to say it was bad, but rather that it gets much better.

Also, you might want to consider starting Torchwood Season 1 when you start Doctor Who Season 3. There is very little connection between the series', so you won't miss that much if you don't watch Torchwood. But watching both together adds some minor mystery and recognition that you wouldn't otherwise get.

If you want to be extra spoiler-free, you can watch the episodes the safe way by doing one episode of Doctor Who, followed by one of Torchwood, and alternate.

But really, you only have to be concerned about (spoiler about only which episodes contain the connections, not any details)...

Spoiler:
...the finales of seasons 3 and 4 of Doctor Who. Get to the season finale of Torchwood Season 1, watch the season finale of Doctor Who Season 3, then watch the season finale of Torchwood Season 1. Do the same for Torchwood Season 2 and Doctor Who season 4. After that, there are no more connections between the shows.

And again, the connections are extremely minor, so don't force yourself to watch Torchwood thinking you'll be missing something in Doctor Who. This is more of a "if you're gonna be watching Torchwood anyway, you might as well watch it this way" suggestion. It adds a few moments of fun and continuity, but that's it.

Torchwood Season 3 is a mini-series, but it is, in my opinion, by far the best season of Torchwood. Season 4 was the worst season, and was developed in a joint effort by Starz and the BBC. Feel free to watch that if you're a completist. But you're not missing much if you don't. I will admit that I enjoyed the basic premise and how it ended, but I was very unimpressed with the bulk of the storyline up to that point.

Make sure you at least finish watching season 1 of Doctor Who before starting Torchwood, though.

For anyone else who is interested in Doctor Who, but doesn't have Netflix, it's also available for all Amazon Prime members. Amazon has all seasons up through 7A (i.e., all episodes except for the ones that aired this year). And it also has Torchwood seasons 1 - 3.
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Old 09-04-2013, 02:35 AM   #49
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Doctor Who <--> Torchwood

Fun fact:
The original series of "Doctor Who" preview tapes were kept secret by hiding them in a file labeled "Torchwood" as that is an anagram of "Doctor Who".

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When the first series of Doctor Who was being made, television pirates were desperate to acquire the preview tapes. One of the people in the office had the idea of labeling the tapes with the anagram "Torchwood" rather than "Doctor Who", as a security measure to disguise the tapes when they were delivered from Cardiff to London. Writer Russell T. Davies liked this idea so much that it later inspired him to use it as a title when creating this spin-off series.

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Old 09-04-2013, 04:11 AM   #50
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And again, the connections are extremely minor, so don't force yourself to watch Torchwood thinking you'll be missing something in Doctor Who. This is more of a "if you're gonna be watching Torchwood anyway, you might as well watch it this way" suggestion. It adds a few moments of fun and continuity, but that's it.
The connections with Sarah Jane Adventures are considerably more frequent. If you're watching both shows, I'd definately reccomend getting an episode guide and watching them in order of first airing. Both shows refer to each other several times, usually explaining something you might find spoily about the other show.

Torchwood doesn't do this so much. They do explain how characters from one show end up on the other, but I can only think of one thing that might be spoily.

To avoid the biggest spoiler, just don't watch the finale of Doctor Who season 4 until you've finished season 2 of Torchwood. I reccomend watching them in the order they aired, which would be seasons 1 and 2 of Doctor Who, season 1 of Torchwood, season 3 of Doctor Who, season 2 of Torchwood, then season 4 of Doctor Who.
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Old 09-04-2013, 05:52 AM   #51
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Go back to Christopher Eccleston or David Tennant. They were great Doctors. Matt Smith just couldn't fill their shoes.
Funny. Even though I think they made the Doctor too young, I prefer Matt Smith to Tennant.

Start with the 2005 reboot but at some point, go back and find the original 1963 episode An Earthly Child.

Two of the Torchwood seasons sucked - the first and the last. The first season, because the characters were all selfish idiots. The last season could have been great if it had half the episodes.
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Old 09-04-2013, 06:57 AM   #52
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Funny. Even though I think they made the Doctor too young, I prefer Matt Smith to Tennant.
The reason it worked, I think, is that Smith was good (perhaps the best ever) at often conveying a timeless quality to the character. He rarely SEEMED young, even though he LOOKED young.
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Old 09-04-2013, 07:56 AM   #53
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Well, I do know about Daleks. Robots who plan to take over the universe who are stymied by stairs. Gotta love that.

It always reminded me a bit of "John Carter" because stairs were never invented on Barsoom and everything had ramps (no need for an Americans with Disabilities Act to implement them there) and Barsoomians were confused by stairs, too.
Apparently you really don't know about Daleks. You've obviously never seen episodes where the Daleks could levitate up the stairs or fly. FYI, Daleks are not robots but actual lifeforms housed in a mechanical structure.

And you call yourself a Doctor Who fan...
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Old 09-04-2013, 08:15 AM   #54
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If you enjoyed Rose, then I think it's safe to say you'll enjoy Doctor Who. Rose was one of the worst episodes of the regenerated series. Which isn't to say it was bad, but rather that it gets much better.
.
Wow. Everyone who I have introduced to Who with "Rose" fell in love immediately.
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Old 09-04-2013, 08:46 AM   #55
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Wow. Everyone who I have introduced to Who with "Rose" fell in love immediately.
Reading this plot summary isn't doing much to convince me to jump on board the Who train just yet.

Spoiler:
The episode opens by showing a day in the life of Rose Tyler, a young woman working in a shop. As she is about to leave work for the day, a security guard stops her and sends her to the basement to deliver money for the lottery to her boss. Unable to locate him in the basement, she finds herself being chased by mannequins that she initially thinks are university students trying to scare her. She is rescued from them by a mysterious man who introduces himself as "the Doctor". The Doctor tells Rose to get out of the building, as he intends to blow it up to destroy a transmitter on the roof. As Rose leaves, the building explodes in flames behind her.

The next day, Rose is discussing the explosion with her mother when the Doctor appears at her door. Rose pulls him inside to discuss the explosion. As she is making him a coffee, the Doctor is attacked by a plastic mannequin arm which had followed Rose home and then let itself in via the cat flap. The Doctor and Rose subdue and deactivate the arm, and Rose follows the Doctor as he leaves. He tells her that she would be better off forgetting he was there, and disappears into his TARDIS. Unable to let the matter rest, Rose begins investigating the Doctor and meets a man named Clive who has been tracking the Doctor's appearances throughout history. Clive tells Rose the Doctor is dangerous and that if he's there something bad is about to happen. While Rose is talking to Clive, her boyfriend Mickey Smith is kidnapped by a wheelie bin and replaced with a plastic replicant.

The fake Mickey takes Rose to lunch and attempts to question her about the Doctor, but the Doctor shows up and beheads the replicant. The Doctor takes Rose and the plastic head to the TARDIS and attempts to use the head to locate the controlling signal. With the head connected, the TARDIS takes them to the London Eye. The Doctor explains to Rose that he is an alien and the fake Mickey was an Auton, controlled by a signal from the Nestene Consciousness. He shows Rose that he has a vial of anti-plastic that can be used to destroy the Nestene if necessary. Realising that the transmitter is the London Eye itself, Rose and the Doctor descend underneath it to stop the Nestene Consciousness. They find Mickey tied up but alive, and the Doctor speaks to the Nestene Consciousness. He tries to negotiate with it, but the Consciousness blames the Doctor for the destruction of its planet during the Time War. The Consciousness activates all the Autons at Queens Arcade, where several shoppers are shot and killed including Clive. The Doctor is also held down by a pair of Autons, but Rose rescues him and the anti-plastic drops into the vat where the Nestene Consciousness resided.

With the Consciousness dead, the Autons all collapse. The Doctor uses the TARDIS to take Mickey and Rose home. He offers to let Rose travel with him but she initially declines, as she feels an obligation to take care of Mickey and her mother. The Doctor leaves in the TARDIS but reappears a few seconds later, sweetening his offer by telling her that it can travel in time as well as space. Rose finally accepts, kissing Mickey goodbye and running into the TARDIS.



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Old 09-04-2013, 09:17 AM   #56
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I wonder why someone would feel the need to post in a thread about a show they don't watch and have no intention of ever watching.

Interesting.

Ereth, hope you enjoy the show as much as I have. It's great fun!
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Old 09-04-2013, 09:25 AM   #57
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I'm gonna try Blink since so many folks say it's the "best" of the bunch. Hey I'm all for watching fun "new" shows and since some say my hatred of the 60's/70's version shouldn't cloud my judgement, I'm ok with trying out an ep to see what all the fuss is about.

I have access to Netflix now but couldn't find "Blink" anywhere listed. All it shows is Seasons 1-6??
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Old 09-04-2013, 09:26 AM   #58
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Apparently you really don't know about Daleks. You've obviously never seen episodes where the Daleks could levitate up the stairs or fly.
I had heard they had added that functionality in later years. Kind of like how R2 suddenly got rockets in the prequels.


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FYI, Daleks are not robots but actual lifeforms housed in a mechanical structure.
That I didn't know.

Quote:
And you call yourself a Doctor Who fan...
Well, not yet. But I did fall in love with the character of Rose almost instantly.
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Old 09-04-2013, 09:31 AM   #59
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I'm gonna try Blink since so many folks say it's the "best" of the bunch. Hey I'm all for watching fun "new" shows and since some say my hatred of the 60's/70's version shouldn't cloud my judgement, I'm ok with trying out an ep to see what all the fuss is about.

I have access to Netflix now but couldn't find "Blink" anywhere listed. All it shows is Seasons 1-6??

Season 3, episode 11.

Edit to correct episode number.
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Old 09-04-2013, 09:46 AM   #60
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I think this is absolutely not true. I would put Smith head and shoulders above Tennant as a performer on this show. Tennant was certainly likable, but I think he was a lightweight.


I find this kind of comparison non-illuminating when someone makes the general statement and says nothing else. After all, actors are constrained by the material they are given to do and what is asked by them of the directors. Comparing two different actors' performances of Hamlet, for instance, the playing field is more level and you have better ground to compare and contrast.

However, a discussion of Eccleston vs. Tennant vs. Smith in their various episodes should wait until Ereth has had a chance to catch up.

I will say though, that I could understand why people might call Tennant a lightweight after watching Eccleston. Versus Smith, however, my reaction as posted above stands.
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