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Old 09-03-2013, 06:38 AM   #901
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If they're $199 retail they're probably 1/2 that, or less, wholesale without a drive. For something that rents at $20/mo it wouldn't take long to become completely replaceable.
I don't think they're close to $199 retail (unsubsidized). I would be surprised if wholesale without a drive was less than $250 - $300 (remember wholesale still has to include a profit for TiVo.) Cable companies are paying more than that for their DVRs from places like Pace, AFAICT.
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Old 09-03-2013, 07:28 AM   #902
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Here is my thing. If they can see that it was added and when, and there is a HDD failure, sure refuse to warranty that. If you add the HDD and the Tivo quits working near that point, sure dont warranty (you damaged something installing the drive, maybe). If I install a new drive, and it runs for 9 months before somethign inside gives out, gimme a break. Id never expect em to warranty the drive of course.
The problem though is you could short the board while you were replacing the drive. It actually happened to me on an old DirecTiVo where the plug to the front panel came just slightly loose while putting everything back together. When I booted the box, it shorted the main board.
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Old 09-03-2013, 09:41 AM   #903
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Has anyone tried this HD?

I was just talking to a friend and its what he ordered. The figures look similar to other 3gb HD's, but not sure.

http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digita...pr_product_top
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Old 09-03-2013, 10:19 AM   #904
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The AV-GP drive is about $10 more - why not just stick with that?

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Has anyone tried this HD?

I was just talking to a friend and its what he ordered. The figures look similar to other 3gb HD's, but not sure.

http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digita...pr_product_top

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Old 09-03-2013, 10:30 AM   #905
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The problem though is you could short the board while you were replacing the drive. It actually happened to me on an old DirecTiVo where the plug to the front panel came just slightly loose while putting everything back together. When I booted the box, it shorted the main board.
Yeah, that's why he said if it broke right after the upgrade that would be understandable. But if it's been running for a few months then I think it's pretty clear that the drive upgrade didn't do anything. And if you use the 3TB AV-GP drive then they can't blame the drive because it's the same one they use in the Pro model. I'm not a lawyer but I wonder if a warranty denial in that case would hold up in court.

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This is especially true for all you guys that are putting in the new drive before you even turn the thing on. I personally would recommend booting it up with the original drive, running through setup, making sure all the tuners work, the video outputs, the Ethernet port, etc... and maybe even using it for a few days to make sure it's not going to fail before cracking the case and putting in a new drive. Because if you discover something is wrong after you've put in that new drive there is no guarantee TiVo wont tell you tough luck.
Of course if it fails on initial start-up then Tivo never had any logs at all with which to tell which drive you used. So even if you fried the board because of your drive upgrade Tivo wouldn't know that. You can make an argument for pulling the ethernet cable on initial boot-up with a new drive.
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Old 09-03-2013, 12:18 PM   #906
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The AV-GP drive is about $10 more - why not just stick with that?

Mine is already upgraded, I copied a link I found here before and told him that's the one to buy. The specs look the same and I see someone else using it on page 28. I just don't want my friend giving me guff.

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Old 09-03-2013, 12:20 PM   #907
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ebay all of that stuff you don't use anymore. People love to buy other peoples junk.
Oh, I'm aware of that concept. The problem is I have a Premiere with lifetime, which selling off would likely cover the lifetime of a new Series 5.

My second unit is a Premiere with grandfathered annual service. Something that isn't worth a lot. So to buy two Series 5's with lifetime would require a large cost outlay that I simply don't have at this time.
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Old 09-03-2013, 01:00 PM   #908
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The problem though is you could short the board while you were replacing the drive. It actually happened to me on an old DirecTiVo where the plug to the front panel came just slightly loose while putting everything back together. When I booted the box, it shorted the main board.
You didnt read my post. I agreed with a HDD failure on the one I installed, or even if something else fails soon after I install and bootup, BUT, if it runs 9 months then craps out. Cut me some slack. I get damaged it during install, but if it runs all those months, dont screw and blame it on a previous HDD install.
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Old 09-03-2013, 01:23 PM   #909
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After the first 90 days that's irrelevant, because I'm no longer dealing with Tivo but instead the 3rd party "extended warranty" provider.

It is their obligation (not Tivo's) to perform under the terms of the agreement, which means repairing/replacing my unit, or paying me the invoice (hardware + lifetime).

Since all "extended warranties" are nearly 100% pure profit there's little incentive to rock the boat.

As you note, however, it's prudent not to 'crack the case' before day 91 so you can skip any hassles while under the standard Tivo warranty.

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I'm not sure that's the case. Wile the insurance portion of the warranty sold by TiVo may be backed by a 3rd party TiVo still handles the support. And as bkrodgers, and others, can attest they know immediately that you've upgraded the drive...

This is especially true for all you guys that are putting in the new drive before you even turn the thing on. I personally would recommend booting it up with the original drive, running through setup, making sure all the tuners work, the video outputs, the Ethernet port, etc... and maybe even using it for a few days to make sure it's not going to fail before cracking the case and putting in a new drive. Because if you discover something is wrong after you've put in that new drive there is no guarantee TiVo wont tell you tough luck.

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Old 09-03-2013, 01:50 PM   #910
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After the first 90 days that's irrelevant, because I'm no longer dealing with Tivo but instead the 3rd party "extended warranty" provider.

It is their obligation (not Tivo's) to perform under the terms of the agreement, which means repairing/replacing my unit, or paying me the invoice (hardware + lifetime).
But the TiVo extended warranty is still serviced by TiVo. Do you really think they will have different policies regarding opening the case for the extended warranty vs the standard warranty just because someone else is footing the bill? I doubt it. If they decide that opening the case voids the warranty I'm pretty sure it would apply to all warranties, including the extended warranty. Even if it doesn't have to.

If you're going to open the case you should really consider getting a warranty from someone other then TiVo just to be safe.
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Old 09-03-2013, 02:03 PM   #911
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I was able to pick up a couple of Torx-head screwdrivers at a small town (population 508) hardware store without any trouble, I'm pretty sure you can find them everywhere.
Right, I have some and have used them for a couple things, including upgrading my premiere hdd. I'm just saying most people don't have them, it's security thru obscurity. I believe that's part of why torx was invented. They are typically only used when the manufacturer really doesn't want you to remove it.

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Torx screws were developed for robotic assembly lines. A single tool can grasp the screw, insert and torque it. A Phillips head by design cannot hold the screw to the bit because of the internal angles of the drive pattern.
Are you saying a robot can't use phillips screws? I don't know much about the topic but that seems unlikely. Wouldn't a magnetic driver solve that? Anyway, if that's the case that makes more sense actually, that it's not a security measure but more of an automation best practice.

Anyway, just a thought. Maybe it was just easier/more cost effective to leave that part of the spec as is, than to make a change that wasn't of any real benefit.
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Old 09-03-2013, 04:59 PM   #912
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Upgraded my plus today as soon as it arrived. It's going through updates. They sold this thing with no book I see. Never used it anyway.
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Old 09-03-2013, 05:19 PM   #913
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They're not really warranties, but service contracts.

The legal obligation to repair/replace (or reimburse) rests solely on the service contract provider, which is not Tivo itself but Service Net Warranty, LLC ("Service Net")

There's no reason for Tivo to get involved since they've already received their commission off the sale of the extended warranty.

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But the TiVo extended warranty is still serviced by TiVo. Do you really think they will have different policies regarding opening the case for the extended warranty vs the standard warranty just because someone else is footing the bill? I doubt it. If they decide that opening the case voids the warranty I'm pretty sure it would apply to all warranties, including the extended warranty. Even if it doesn't have to.

If you're going to open the case you should really consider getting a warranty from someone other then TiVo just to be safe.

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Old 09-03-2013, 05:27 PM   #914
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They're not really warranties, but service contracts.

The legal obligation to repair/replace (or reimburse) rests solely on the service contract provider, which is not Tivo itself but Service Net Warranty, LLC ("Service Net")

There's no reason for Tivo to get involved since they've already received their commission off the sale of the extended warranty.
So if TiVo has knowledge that you've opened the box and violated the warranty you don't think they have any obligation to report that to the warranty company? Even though they are the ones that handle the call and fulfill the replacement?

Seems risky to me. Would personally get a warranty through BestBuy or SqureTrade if I were planning on doing an upgrade. Seems like they're more likely to look the other way if someone else has already exchanged the hardware and all they're doing is transferring service.
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Old 09-03-2013, 06:51 PM   #915
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So if TiVo has knowledge that you've opened the box and violated the warranty you don't think they have any obligation to report that to the warranty company? Even though they are the ones that handle the call and fulfill the replacement?

Seems risky to me. Would personally get a warranty through BestBuy or SqureTrade if I were planning on doing an upgrade. Seems like they're more likely to look the other way if someone else has already exchanged the hardware and all they're doing is transferring service.
Well the most likely thing to fail is the hard drive anyway, so if the hard drive I installed fails I would just buy another (bigger) one or do an RMA on the drive itself.
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Old 09-03-2013, 07:44 PM   #916
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So if TiVo has knowledge that you've opened the box and violated the warranty you don't think they have any obligation to report that to the warranty company? Even though they are the ones that handle the call and fulfill the replacement?

Seems risky to me. Would personally get a warranty through BestBuy or SqureTrade if I were planning on doing an upgrade. Seems like they're more likely to look the other way if someone else has already exchanged the hardware and all they're doing is transferring service.
Okay, you convinced me. I canceled the TiVo warranty and went with SquareTrade. I had a 40% coupon so I got 3 years of coverage for $32. So I even saved a few bucks
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Old 09-03-2013, 08:29 PM   #917
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They'd be foolish to involve themselves in any dispute between the end user and the 3rd party responsible for the service contract - they've already got their cut, why involve themselves in the decision process when it can only cost them?

I doubt their contract with the 3rd party provider allows them any input or leeway as to the 3rd party's decision process - if the 3rd party tells them to 'drop ship a replacement' then that's what they do under the terms of their arrangement.

Again, past the standard warranty, statistically that's going to happen once in a blue moon, so why risk upsetting the gravy train?

I don't think I can emphasize enough how enormously profitable any form of "extended warranty" is for the seller and those taking a commission on the sale.

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So if TiVo has knowledge that you've opened the box and violated the warranty you don't think they have any obligation to report that to the warranty company? Even though they are the ones that handle the call and fulfill the replacement?

Seems risky to me. Would personally get a warranty through BestBuy or SqureTrade if I were planning on doing an upgrade. Seems like they're more likely to look the other way if someone else has already exchanged the hardware and all they're doing is transferring service.


Last edited by ncbill : 09-03-2013 at 08:37 PM.
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Old 09-03-2013, 09:26 PM   #918
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What does the end-user license say?

You know the one you probably agree to at some point?

If it says warranty is void if you opened it, they have a leg to stand on, you don't.
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Old 09-03-2013, 09:37 PM   #919
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In general is there any warning from the Tivo that a hard drive might be going bad such that you would have time to transfer recordings somewhere else to put back on later?
Note, I don't have a Roamio, but I suspect that the answer is the same as with every other Tivo..

NO... Except you are likely to see a lot more reboots and/or glitchy recordings while the drive is starting to go flaky but hasn't completely died.
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Old 09-03-2013, 10:17 PM   #920
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[ It sure would be nice if all the discussion of warranties was in a different thread...]

I upgraded my Roamio Basic with a 2 TB drive over the weekend. All went smoothly. Big thanks to the note originator for taking the time to dive in and share.

As others have noted, I only had to remove one screw. One other thing to be aware of is that one of drive-tray attachment "bars" needs to be attached upside down. You can sort of see this in the photos, but I initially attached them in the same orientation, and found the drive to stick up on one-side. An easy fix.

My season passes have been copied over (thanks Tivo.com) and I'm moving about 20 desired shows from my old TiVoHD over to the new Roamio.

John
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Old 09-03-2013, 11:54 PM   #921
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Right, I have some and have used them for a couple things, including upgrading my premiere hdd. I'm just saying most people don't have them, it's security thru obscurity. I believe that's part of why torx was invented. They are typically only used when the manufacturer really doesn't want you to remove it.


Are you saying a robot can't use phillips screws? I don't know much about the topic but that seems unlikely. Wouldn't a magnetic driver solve that? Anyway, if that's the case that makes more sense actually, that it's not a security measure but more of an automation best practice.

Anyway, just a thought. Maybe it was just easier/more cost effective to leave that part of the spec as is, than to make a change that wasn't of any real benefit.
You should read the Wiki on Torx to better understand the technology. Philips was designed for the driver to slip out of the fastener when too much torque was applied which is extremely typical when automation is in use. The Torx design increases coupling when torque is applied and is a better option with robotic or machine assembly systems. In layman's terms what this means is that you have a better coupling, by design, between driver and fasteners than is possible with a slotted screwdriver arrangement.
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Old 09-04-2013, 09:25 AM   #922
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My season passes have been copied over (thanks Tivo.com) and I'm moving about 20 desired shows from my old TiVoHD over to the new Roamio.

John
Thanks for posting this. I wasn't even aware this was possible. Guess I need to visit TiVo.com more often.
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Old 09-04-2013, 11:33 AM   #923
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I used a program called kmttg to copy my SPs instead of TiVo.com. I've used TiVo.com in the past and it has two problems that kmttg seems to be able to get past...

1) It maintains the SP order correctly, where TiVo.com seems to copy them randomly.

2) It was able to copy SPs for shows not currently in the guide. TiVo.com copies them but they show up as "corrupt" in the SP Manger until the show comes back into the guide.

So I would highly recommend using kmttg over TiVo.com for copying SPs over.
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Old 09-04-2013, 12:09 PM   #924
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Non of my SPs showed up as corrupt when I transferred 103 SPs online to my Roamio Pro. I had a bunch that were not in the guide and none of them showed anything unusual when I looked at them.

My only issue was that I could not transfer all of them at one time. So I I transferred 20 to 25 at a time.
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Old 09-04-2013, 03:24 PM   #925
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Upgraded my pro to 3tb last nite, pretty darn easy I would say!
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Old 09-04-2013, 03:25 PM   #926
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Thought a pro was already 3TB???
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Old 09-04-2013, 03:37 PM   #927
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Thought a pro was already 3TB???
It is, I imagine it's a typo, he probably bought a Plus.
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Old 09-04-2013, 05:54 PM   #928
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That's what I figured too.

I finally was able to get over to Oahu and get my pro at best buy. Can't wait to get back tonight and play!
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Old 09-04-2013, 06:31 PM   #929
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Upgraded my pro to 3tb last nite, pretty darn easy I would say!
Are people setting up their new TiVo boxes before upgrading the hard drive.
Service setup, cable card setup etc...

Just curious before I get mine
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Old 09-04-2013, 06:33 PM   #930
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Are people setting up their new TiVo boxes before upgrading the hard drive.

Just curious before I get mine
I definitely loaded the stock drive and tried a few recordings before diving into replacing the new drive (just to make sure nothing's wrong w/ the main unit). Also got the SquareTrade warranty instead of TiVo's so I can replace unit within 2 yrs (since I'd be voiding warranty opening up TiVo).
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