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Old 09-03-2013, 05:11 PM   #151
uncdrew
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Originally Posted by photoshopgrl View Post
I'm sorry but I'm 100% rooting for Jesse. He started out a punk kid making meth and yes, that's a horrible thing but he evolved from that to murder because of Walt's manipulation of him. He has shown over the course of the show that he didn't want pretty much any of this yet he keeps allowing himself to be dragged back in. Jesse's main fault is he's weak minded. And part of that his his drug addiction. Walt has been like a father to him and we saw last week that it's something Jesse feels because he even said the words "just tell me you don’t give a **** about me" because he desperately wanted to hear the opposite. Ugh. Some people do bad things and I don't think that makes them bad people. Jesse is a prime example of that. Walt, on the other hand, is a bad person.

Just my $.02
Jesse's not a bad person?

Yeowzers, that's insane. The list of bad things he's done in his life is worthy of 10 bad people.

So he gets a bit weepy because a kid he liked was poisoned. He's still a bad person. And has been for years, since we first met him.

A good person would have done things very differently than Jesse.
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Old 09-03-2013, 05:12 PM   #152
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If Jesse told them about Drew Sharp, then he's already admitted to being an accomplice to murder. Based on Jesse's state of mind as we've seen it, I don't think he was holding anything back when he made his confession.

On a side note, during this week's podcast, they said that Jesse's full confession will be available on the special edition Blu-ray set.
Pulling a uncdrew and quoting myself:

As long as we're talking about the podcast, something I found interesting that we haven't discussed in the previous threads for the last few episodes is that the episodes we've seen so far for this season were filmed in December and January in and around Albuquerque. They have talked about how cold it was for some of the exterior shoots, including the scene with Walt digging the hole for the money and the scene with Walt, Jesse, and Saul in the desert. Supposedly it was like 5 or 10 degrees on those days, and the actors would run to their cars and/or shove their hands in their pockets filled with hand warmers as soon as a take was over. I'm still not sure how they managed to film those scenes without being able to see everyone's breath as they talked.
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Old 09-03-2013, 05:12 PM   #153
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Im glad Hank finally brought Gomie into this. He shoulda done it right away.
Might end Gomie's career too, unfortunately.

Gomie's gonna have to decide if and when to report this, and I don't think can hide behind "Hank told me not to."
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Old 09-03-2013, 05:14 PM   #154
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Might end Gomie's career too, unfortunately.

Gomie's gonna have to decide if and when to report this, and I don't think can hide behind "Hank told me not to."
That's a good point. Hank's goose is cooked either way, but Gomey basically has about 24-48 hours to report this to the DEA, so they better be hoping that whatever Jesse's plan is, Jesse is able to pull it off very fast.
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Old 09-03-2013, 05:14 PM   #155
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Was it realistic that Jesse could stand in the living room with a lit lighter and all those gasoline fumes without them igniting?

So if Jesse told Hank about the Drew Sharp killing, that means he told about the train heist. That seems like it would be fairly easy to verify.
How long ago was the train heist? What they stole was replaced with water, creating a very slightly diluted methylamine -- might already be used and not noticed.

That crime seemed like after a time would be very hard to prove, if even noticed.
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Old 09-03-2013, 05:16 PM   #156
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How long ago was the train heist? What they stole was replaced with water, creating a very slightly diluted methylamine -- might already be used and not noticed.

That crime seemed like after a time would be very hard to prove, if even noticed.
You're right. I had forgotten that they only stole a small percentage of the total amount of methylamine in the tanker. I was thinking that when it got to the other end, they basically had a tanker car full of water. But you are correct. They had slightly diluted methylamine, which they probably wouldn't have even noticed if they weren't specifically looking for it, and it would probably all be distributed and used by now.

So please disregard my saying that they could verify Jesse's story through that means.
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Old 09-03-2013, 05:27 PM   #157
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In today's news the agents of Albuquerque US DEA office have announced that they have found the evidence leading to the supplier of the especially potent blue meth that has plagued the community.

The DEA says it was made by a late chemistry wizard named Gale Boetticher.
I disagree with the thought that taking Heisenberg from Walt would destroy Walt. Walt is much smarter than that, and wouldn't ruin everything to prove he's Heisenberg.

He knows he was the best at it, the only people he might care know it was Walt. I really don't think he cares much if the public thinks it was him or not. In fact, if he could make the world think someone else was Heisenberg I think he would and be quite content in his genius.

It's like the Kaiser Sose quote: "The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist."
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Old 09-03-2013, 05:30 PM   #158
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But Hank referred to him as a murderer when speaking to Gomez. I think we can assume that Jesse told them about Gale based on that.
True, I didn't see that until after I posted. That sure does lean towards him saying that.

Unless Hank just assumes with all the deaths surrounding Walt/Jesse that it's safe to pin some on Jesse. Truly, I don't think Jesse's character would have said that. He seemed hellbent in screwing Mr. White and I would assume his conversation was focused on that. But evidence does lead to towards Jesse telling all, including him murdering someone.

I still content Jesse is a bad person though.
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Old 09-03-2013, 05:49 PM   #159
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I didn't realize that Jesse did not know about the family connection. He looked stunned at the picture of Skyler and Santa.
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He knew about the family connection. I think it was just surreal for him to be seeing the Walter White version of Heisenberg.
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The family connection to what? That picture wouldn't indicate any connection to the drug trade.
I think the photo with Skyler and Santa just made Jesse aware of the family as normal, happy people -- versus the stilted supper he shared with them at their lowest point in their relationship.
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Old 09-03-2013, 05:59 PM   #160
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I think the photo with Skyler and Santa just made Jesse aware of the family as normal, happy people -- versus the stilted supper he shared with them at their lowest point in their relationship.




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Old 09-03-2013, 06:28 PM   #161
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Burners.

You buy cheap. You throw them away.
Which brings up the questions:
  1. How izzit that Jesse has memorized whatever is the current phone number that calls the current burner that Walt is using?
  2. How izzit that Jesse found one of the last outdoor public phones in America conveniently located at the edge of the scene?
  3. How izzit that Jesse had change for the phone? They don't take $100s.

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Old 09-03-2013, 06:31 PM   #162
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erm...Root for who you want...but pretty much NOBODY in this show is a good person by most good people's standards.
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Old 09-03-2013, 06:55 PM   #163
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Jesse's not a bad person?

Yeowzers, that's insane. The list of bad things he's done in his life is worthy of 10 bad people.

So he gets a bit weepy because a kid he liked was poisoned. He's still a bad person. And has been for years, since we first met him.

A good person would have done things very differently than Jesse.

This, so much this....Jesse is a bad person...period.
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Old 09-03-2013, 07:19 PM   #164
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Wasn't it Marie that asked Jesse if he wanted lasagna? I wonder what he said to her about it.
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Old 09-03-2013, 07:23 PM   #165
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This, so much this....Jesse is a bad person...period.
Well, not period...and I think that's the problem. He's not a mustache-twirling villain; he's a very human monster, like monsters tend to be. Nobody is pure evil (or pure good). Jesse is very much one of the bad guys, and it's not even a close call. But because, like all humans (and unlike most TV villains), he is portrayed as having some sympathetic characteristics, people who are used to mustache-twirling villains are willing to excuse the fact that he is, well, evil in oh-so-many ways.

He is a terrible (if sometimes likable) person. It's just standing next to Walt that he looks somewhat less terrible.
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Old 09-03-2013, 07:47 PM   #166
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Which brings up the questions:
  1. How izzit that Jesse has memorized whatever is the current phone number that calls the current burner that Walt is using?
  2. How izzit that Jesse found one of the last outdoor public phones in America conveniently located at the edge of the scene?
  3. How izzit that Jesse had change for the phone? They don't take $100s.
Fine points. I too was surprised by the pay phone, but I'm guessing the intrawebs quickly proved that there is one in that location.
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Old 09-03-2013, 07:53 PM   #167
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Well, not period...and I think that's the problem. He's not a mustache-twirling villain; he's a very human monster, like monsters tend to be. Nobody is pure evil (or pure good). Jesse is very much one of the bad guys, and it's not even a close call. But because, like all humans (and unlike most TV villains), he is portrayed as having some sympathetic characteristics, people who are used to mustache-twirling villains are willing to excuse the fact that he is, well, evil in oh-so-many ways.

He is a terrible (if sometimes likable) person. It's just standing next to Walt that he looks somewhat less terrible.
Yep.

What's the full evil spectrum. If Walt Junior and the baby are far right, who is farther... Err... further left? Walt? Todd? Mike? Gus? Declan? Tuco? Hector? Gonzo? Kuby?

Heck, Badger, Saul, Huell all seem like angels.
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Old 09-03-2013, 07:56 PM   #168
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Yep.

What's the full evil spectrum. If Walt Junior and the baby are far right, who is farther... Err... further left? Walt? Todd? Mike? Gus? Declan? Tuco? Hector? Gonzo? Kuby?

Heck, Badger, Saul, Huell all seem like angels.
The fun thing about this show is that it consists mostly of two types of people: those at the far left end of the spectrum, and those that the people at the far left end of the spectrum have dragged with them to the far left end of the spectrum.

And Walt Jr. and the baby, who are just clueless and never participate in the story.
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Old 09-03-2013, 07:58 PM   #169
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Jessie has done some terrible things, but he seems to show genuine remorse, which is more than anyone else has shown.
This reminds me of a scene from another show (not getting too specific to avoid spoilers) where a priest basically told the character that his sins were okay, as long as he "hates sin".
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Old 09-03-2013, 08:23 PM   #170
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Fine points. I too was surprised by the pay phone, but I'm guessing the intrawebs quickly proved that there is one in that location.
I actually just did a Google street view around that plaza and there are no pay phones, but this show is supposed to be taking place several years ago, so I can forgive them that issue.
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Old 09-03-2013, 09:05 PM   #171
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[*]How izzit that Jesse found one of the last outdoor public phones in America conveniently located at the edge of the scene?
I had to do a double take at the local Dennys when I saw two pay stations. Even though the Dennys is at a Flying J truck stop one would think truckers would have cell phones.
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Old 09-03-2013, 11:19 PM   #172
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This reminds me of a scene from another show (not getting too specific to avoid spoilers) where a priest basically told the character that his sins were okay, as long as he "hates sin".
Not what I was saying at all. Jesse has done far more evil than any of the other major characters, save Walt. I was just pointing out that at least he recognizes what he has done and is haunted by it, unlike, say Walt, so that makes him more human and thus more relatable.
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Old 09-04-2013, 12:18 AM   #173
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I am wondering since we didn't see what Jesse said on the video, and we didn't see how Gomez was pulled into this, if this is building up to all being a big play by Walt and Jesse to frame either Hank, the guys who took over the operation, Lydia, or even Saul.

This show isn't that sloppy where we would never see what was said by Hank to Gomez or what Jesse said on the video, that wasn't included in order to redirect the viewer.
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Old 09-04-2013, 12:27 AM   #174
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This show isn't that sloppy where we would never see what was said by Hank to Gomez or what Jesse said on the video, that wasn't included in order to redirect the viewer.
and it's certainly not sloppy enough to allow what you suggested to be the outcome after all this setup. That would basically undo everything seen in 5B to this point and make it all a big sham. There's no way that's happening.
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Old 09-04-2013, 02:05 AM   #175
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I am wondering since we didn't see what Jesse said on the video, and we didn't see how Gomez was pulled into this, if this is building up to all being a big play by Walt and Jesse to frame either Hank, the guys who took over the operation, Lydia, or even Saul.

This show isn't that sloppy where we would never see what was said by Hank to Gomez or what Jesse said on the video, that wasn't included in order to redirect the viewer.
As intriguing as the idea might seem, there's no getting past the fact that we saw (when noone else was around) Jesse figure out the ricin had been lifted, then go beat up Saul, then go pour gasoline inside Walt's house. Walt then walked through his house (gun drawn), clearly nervous about Jesse.

There's no time for Jesse to have been with Walt to plan anything after that.

Now what might happen is that Jesse may try to save Walt. I know that's a long shot, and I don't think it will happen, but there's a small chance. Hear me out. The key moment would be when Jesse was sitting in Hank's livingroom, Jesse said something about Walt not caring about him(Jesse), and then Hank said "not from what you've told us..".. Hank then proceeded to show him examples in the testimony that showed Walt's concern for Jesse.

What Hank was going for (if I remember the scene correctly) was to tell Jesse that Walt is always pretending to care about him, so (fuzzy memory here) - so he could trust meeting with Walt that Walt wouldn't try to hurt him(?).

But I saw a tiny sliver of a chance there that Jesse saw someone else saying that Walt cared about him (however briefly) as a chance to reenforce what he hoped for deep down - approval from Walt. It'd have to grow, and he'd have to spend time thinking about it, and again I doubt it from what we've seen, but I did think that after giving that testimony, hearing that it wasn't obvious to everyone else that Walt would kill him gave him some pause.

So I'm labeling everything that happened during the wearing-a-wire meet with an asterisk for now, just in case Jesse had different intentions there. Was the phone call an act? Maybe a code they planned years ago for if one ever got caught? Maybe. But the bald guy waiting for the kid in the park was too clear of a tell that Jesse actually thought Walt was betraying him.

So, no, I don't think Jesse and Walt are planning anything, and I don't think that Jesse is trying to help Walt in any way. But, it's possible.
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Old 09-04-2013, 06:16 AM   #176
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erm...Root for who you want...but pretty much NOBODY in this show is a good person by most good people's standards.
Heh.
My husband does not watch BB- wants to start from scratch in a binge watch after the finale.
But he walked through the room the other day as I was watching, glanced at the screen and asked "That's a bad guy, right?"

All I could do was shake my head and say "Hon, they're all bad guys."
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Old 09-04-2013, 07:13 AM   #177
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I thought there would be a long discussion at how cold and heartless Hank was as he discussed Walt possibly killing Jesse. He and Skyler both crossed the same threshold (albeit from very different perspectives). But I was a lot more stunned by Hank's easy dismissal of Jesse's life's worth than with Skyler's.
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Old 09-04-2013, 10:20 AM   #178
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One thing I am wondering about. When Jesse first entered the plaza, someone ran into him, I believe they had a blue hoodie on. When I first saw it, it looked a little like Todd. I actually rewound, and didn't see anything to indicate it was Matt Damon, so I just continued to watch the scene. But now I am wondering if maybe it was Todd and there was more to the scene then just Jesse bumping into a random guy.
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Old 09-04-2013, 11:03 AM   #179
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I thought there would be a long discussion at how cold and heartless Hank was as he discussed Walt possibly killing Jesse. He and Skyler both crossed the same threshold (albeit from very different perspectives). But I was a lot more stunned by Hank's easy dismissal of Jesse's life's worth than with Skyler's.
I won't be sad if Hank is blown away by someone.
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Old 09-04-2013, 11:07 AM   #180
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I won't be sad if Hank is blown away by someone.
Nor I....

What I find interesting is that, in all the theories being floated here at TCF, almost all involve many if not nearly all of the BB principals dying. I'm feeling that many will survive in various alternative lives....
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