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Old 09-01-2013, 04:21 PM   #61
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How come must-carry hasn't kicked in yet?
from wikipedia:

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Must-carry may only be applied if the television station wants to be carried under this provision. This only applies to non-commercial educational (NCE) stations. Station operators are allowed to demand payment from cable operators, or negotiate private agreements for carriage, or threaten revocation against the cable operator...

Must-carry is a privilege given to television stations, not a cable company. A cable company cannot use must-carry to demand the right to carry an OTA station against the station's wishes.

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Old 09-01-2013, 04:41 PM   #62
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Yeah I gleaned that from my own reading after I posted. Kinda sucks because it puts a ton of power in the broadcasters hands, and almost none in the cable companies hands. Especially with the regulations that prevent them using an out of area broadcaster instead.
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Old 09-01-2013, 04:54 PM   #63
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Yeah I gleaned that from my own reading after I posted. Kinda sucks because it puts a ton of power in the broadcasters hands, and almost none in the cable companies hands. Especially with the regulations that prevent them using an out of area broadcaster instead.
The law the NAB tried to get originally was "Must Carrry-Must Pay", but what they've got now is the ability to force the cable company to carry them, but they can't charge anything if they do.

However, if the station is popular enough that the cable company wants to carry them, then they can ask for payment of some sort.

At one time being carried on the same analog channel as the one on which they broadcast, instead of wherever the cable company wanted to put them, was considered something the TV station might accept instead of some or all payment, so if Channel 12 wanted people to get them whenever they punched in a 1 and a 2 on the remote, regardless of whether OTA or cable, they'd be more flexible on the payment thing.

Now that OTA is digital, who knows what channel your local is actually being received on or mapped to, so it's probably not as big a consideration.
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Old 09-01-2013, 05:08 PM   #64
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The law the NAB tried to get originally was "Must Carrry-Must Pay", but what they've got now is the ability to force the cable company to carry them, but they can't charge anything if they do.

However, if the station is popular enough that the cable company wants to carry them, then they can ask for payment of some sort.

At one time being carried on the same analog channel as the one on which they broadcast, instead of wherever the cable company wanted to put them, was considered something the TV station might accept instead of some or all payment, so if Channel 12 wanted people to get them whenever they punched in a 1 and a 2 on the remote, regardless of whether OTA or cable, they'd be more flexible on the payment thing.

Now that OTA is digital, who knows what channel your local is actually being received on or mapped to, so it's probably not as big a consideration.
If I wanted to tune in CBS 11, entering 11 into my cable box or TiVo doesn't get me CBS 11. At least, not in HD. And in 2013, who doesn't want the channel in HD?
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Old 09-01-2013, 05:08 PM   #65
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Kinda sucks because it puts a ton of power in the broadcasters hands, and almost none in the cable companies hands.
that's by design. with cable companies increasingly investing in production, and making investments in programming, on top of localized monopolies, they might decide it would be to their advantage to eliminate the competition.
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Old 09-01-2013, 05:13 PM   #66
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To me, the line between CBS and NBC and FOX and AMC and FX and CNN and ESPN and Discovery and everything else is totally blurred. They are all just producers on entertainment. The fact that a small number broadcast over the air doesn't mean anything to me now. They are all just channels. And I want them. All on the same cable/line from one place.
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Old 09-01-2013, 06:44 PM   #67
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that's by design. with cable companies increasingly investing in production, and making investments in programming, on top of localized monopolies, they might decide it would be to their advantage to eliminate the competition.
But it seems to have shifted the power a bit too much in favor of the broadcasters. Must-carry would be fine if it was free and applied in both directions.

If these broadcasters push too much then cable companies are really going to start looking at solutions akin to Aereo just to prevent this type of hostage situation in the future. I'm sure long term a setup like hat would be cheaper then paying per subscriber fees anyway.
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Old 09-01-2013, 07:18 PM   #68
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It's not just the broadcasters I'm irked with, though, not when I see how much ESPN gets per subscriber (about 10 to 20 times what any other channel with commercials gets) for a channel that our household almost never uses.

And that's just for ESPN, ESPN2 is a separate (though not nearly as outrageous) charge.

I don't see why we have to subsidize sports junkies just to get a few analog channels above 13.
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Old 09-01-2013, 07:30 PM   #69
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To me, the line between CBS and NBC and FOX and AMC and FX and CNN and ESPN and Discovery and everything else is totally blurred. They are all just producers on entertainment. The fact that a small number broadcast over the air doesn't mean anything to me now. They are all just channels. And I want them. All on the same cable/line from one place.
Would you still want them all if your cable bill more than doubled tomorrow? That is what CBS is looking for more than double what they used to be paid. If they can get it why do you think every other channel would think their fee shouldn't also be doubled? That is what is at stake not just paying CBS more. If TWC caves get ready for a major cost increase as each channels contract expires all of which will be passed on to you and every other cable subscriber..
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Old 09-01-2013, 07:42 PM   #70
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But it seems to have shifted the power a bit too much in favor of the broadcasters. Must-carry would be fine if it was free and applied in both directions.

If these broadcasters push too much then cable companies are really going to start looking at solutions akin to Aereo just to prevent this type of hostage situation in the future. I'm sure long term a setup like hat would be cheaper then paying per subscriber fees anyway.
Actually if is a little funny because competition actually caused this issue. Before the satellite companies had the ability to broadcast locals, the cable companies didn't have to pay for locals because it was too risky for the locals to risk being removed from the cable system. Then along came satellite which had to pay for locals and also provided the locals with an alternative for users to cable which ended up giving the locals leverage over the cable companies.

In the end the competition that was supposed to benefit consumers (having satellite companies compete with cable companies) has just allowed content providers to charge everyone more. As consumers we would have been better off with a regulated monopoly.
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Old 09-01-2013, 09:56 PM   #71
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Would you still want them all if your cable bill more than doubled tomorrow? That is what CBS is looking for more than double what they used to be paid. If they can get it why do you think every other channel would think their fee shouldn't also be doubled? That is what is at stake not just paying CBS more. If TWC caves get ready for a major cost increase as each channels contract expires all of which will be passed on to you and every other cable subscriber..
My whole cable bill won't actually double.

But what's the alternative? No TV? Because if Time Warner decides to stop paying anybody, than that is what would happen. No TV from them.
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Old 09-01-2013, 10:37 PM   #72
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Why cant TWC just give CBS what they are asking for, and put it on cable as a premium channel...i.e. you want CBS, that will be $5 a month more...
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Old 09-01-2013, 10:43 PM   #73
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Why cant TWC just give CBS what they are asking for, and put it on cable as a premium channel...i.e. you want CBS, that will be $5 a month more...
because cbs wouldn't agree to an offer that didn't include their stations as part of a basic cable package.
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Old 09-01-2013, 10:45 PM   #74
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Why cant TWC just give CBS what they are asking for, and put it on cable as a premium channel...i.e. you want CBS, that will be $5 a month more...
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because cbs wouldn't agree to an offer that didn't include their stations as part of a basic cable package.
Right. Obviously, CBS is gonna get more money out of Time Warner. Question is how much more?


Which carrier renegotiated most recently with the CBS stations in question? What are they paying now? More than what TimeWarner had been paying? Any way to get the numbers?
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Old 09-01-2013, 10:57 PM   #75
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Right. Obviously, CBS is gonna get more money out of Time Warner. Question is how much more?

Which carrier renegotiated most recently with the CBS stations in question? What are they paying now? More than what TimeWarner had been paying? Any way to get the numbers?
looking down the road, what i'm wondering is how this will effect comcast and their next contract negotiations? now that comcast owns nbc, cnbc, msnbc, the weather channel, telemundo, syfy, usa, universal hd, bravo, e!, style, g4, pbs kids sprout, tvone, oxygen, cloo, chiller...
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Old 09-01-2013, 11:01 PM   #76
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looking down the road, what i'm wondering is how this will effect comcast and their next contract negotiations? now that comcast owns nbc, cnbc, msnbc, the weather channel, telemundo, syfy, usa, universal hd, bravo, e!, style, g4, pbs kids sprout, tvone, oxygen, cloo, chiller...
Good question

For NBC, not all NBC stations are O&O. I suspect there will be different challenges for the ones that are not.


There are a several operators. If many of them give CBS closer to what CBS wants and TimeWarner flat out refuses and continues to not carry CBS, what does that say about CBS?
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Old 09-01-2013, 11:12 PM   #77
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If many of them give CBS closer to what CBS wants and TimeWarner flat out refuses and continues to not carry CBS, what does that say about CBS?
cbs would not have entered into this without planning for different outcomes and having several alternatives, including twc walking away.

cbs looked at the timing (fall, football, showtime), and decided it was the right time to play hardball with twc, knowing there would be resistance. it all boils down to who blinks first.

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For NBC, not all NBC stations are O&O.
nbc owns stations in new york, la, san diego, san jose, chicago, miami, dc, philly, dfw, etc. would comcast black out basic cable offerings during negotiations in those cities?
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Old 09-02-2013, 12:29 PM   #78
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Why cant TWC just give CBS what they are asking for, and put it on cable as a premium channel...i.e. you want CBS, that will be $5 a month more...
This will set a precedent.

"Time Warner Cable's (NYSE: TWC) current standoff with CBS (NYSE: CBS) over retransmission fees is being closely watched by other TV distributors such as NBC, ABC and Fox and could ultimately set the standard for future negotiations."
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Old 09-02-2013, 05:25 PM   #79
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I heard that the Twitterverse is saying they reached a deal.

anyone hear anything?

I ordered an antenna from Amazon a few hours ago. Should I cancel it?
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Old 09-02-2013, 05:27 PM   #80
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http://www.multichannel.com/cable-op...reement/145231

http://twcconversations.com/dispute/cbs/

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Old 09-02-2013, 05:51 PM   #81
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finally

about damn time


I wonder if my code for a free PPV will still work. I never got a chance to spend it.
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Old 09-02-2013, 05:59 PM   #82
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finally

about damn time


I wonder if my code for a free PPV will still work. I never got a chance to spend it.
The code should still work. What antenna did you order and are you going to keep it?
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Old 09-02-2013, 06:03 PM   #83
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The code should still work. What antenna did you order and are you going to keep it?
I canceled it.

I ordered that flat leaf thing.



I wonder how long it will take before TiVo knows CBS is back so that my season passes will work.
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Old 09-02-2013, 06:08 PM   #84
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I heard that the Twitterverse is saying they reached a deal.

anyone hear anything?
from nytimes.com:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/03/bu..._20130902&_r=0

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Old 09-02-2013, 06:09 PM   #85
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luckily SHOWTIME is doing a marathon of Dexter, and 5pm episode is the 1st one we missed because of blackout ( 4 total) Glad I saw this thread.
Just did 4 manual recordings, since Tivo isn't updated yet.
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Old 09-02-2013, 06:21 PM   #86
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They blacked out Showtime too? Ouch!
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Old 09-02-2013, 06:33 PM   #87
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They blacked out Showtime too? Ouch!
yeah, dan, and, of course, tmc, too. that's the reason i started wondering about nbc/comcast...
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Old 09-02-2013, 06:49 PM   #88
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I knew they owned both, I just assumed each had a separate deal.
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Old 09-02-2013, 07:01 PM   #89
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They blacked out Showtime too? Ouch!
I don't get how CBS can blacked out Showtime when YOU pay to view it?
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Old 09-02-2013, 07:03 PM   #90
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I don't get how CBS can blacked out Showtime when YOU pay to view it?
because the terms for TW to carry it had ended and new terms had not been established.
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