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Old 09-02-2013, 11:22 AM   #871
ggieseke
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Originally Posted by jodell View Post
While trying to get GGieseke a backup of a 2 TB drive pre-guided setup (which I see Devx beat me to the punch, thanks Devx) I decided to test a second theory
I'm still curious about how they'd auto-partition a 2TB drive. My current program can't properly image anything over 2TB, so the 3TB image from Devx is informative (thanks again) but not complete. A 2TB image would still be extremely valuable.
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Old 09-02-2013, 01:00 PM   #872
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I'm still curious about how they'd auto-partition a 2TB drive. My current program can't properly image anything over 2TB, so the 3TB image from Devx is informative (thanks again) but not complete. A 2TB image would still be extremely valuable.
I will be sending you a box.com folder share later today so you can look at a full backup of a 2 TB drive.

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Old 09-02-2013, 04:58 PM   #873
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Seems if tivo REALLY didn't mind people upgrading drives, they woulda just used your average phillips screw on the hdd.
Torx screws were developed for robotic assembly lines. A single tool can grasp the screw, insert and torque it. A Phillips head by design cannot hold the screw to the bit because of the internal angles of the drive pattern.
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Old 09-02-2013, 05:07 PM   #874
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Torx screws were developed for robotic assembly lines. A single tool can grasp the screw, insert and torque it. A Phillips head by design cannot hold the screw to the bit because of the internal angles of the drive pattern.
Bingo.
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Old 09-02-2013, 05:08 PM   #875
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Man, this new upgrade procedure is making me want to go get one and do the upgrade. Have never messed with one my TiVo's ever, going back 13 years to my first one.

Now I have to find the bloody money to get it.
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Old 09-02-2013, 05:08 PM   #876
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Screws and stickers don't matter because they can tell from their logs if you've upgraded your drive. If they decide to enforce the rules they can tell right from their computer screen if you've opened the lid. In the past they've mostly turned a blind eye to upgrading, but that could change at and time. So you're taking a risk by upgrading the drive.
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Old 09-02-2013, 05:14 PM   #877
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Now I have to find the bloody money to get it.
ebay all of that stuff you don't use anymore. People love to buy other peoples junk.
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Old 09-02-2013, 06:57 PM   #878
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Screws and stickers don't matter because they can tell from their logs if you've upgraded your drive. If they decide to enforce the rules they can tell right from their computer screen if you've opened the lid. In the past they've mostly turned a blind eye to upgrading, but that could change at and time. So you're taking a risk by upgrading the drive.
Even so I think they'd have to prove that replacing the drive caused whatever issue requiring warranty service.
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Old 09-02-2013, 07:05 PM   #879
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Even so I think they'd have to prove that replacing the drive caused whatever issue requiring warranty service.
Prove to who!! Open the case warranty finished, but TiVo has never made a big deal out of this policy, the mother board/PS goes bad, put in the original disk and ask for a RMA, chances are the TiVo CSR will not go into your logs, just don't tell them, as some have done, that I upgraded the drive and nine months later the TiVo went south, I put the original drive back in and the TiVo still will not work please give me a RMA.

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Old 09-02-2013, 07:08 PM   #880
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While warranty refusal on a modified DVR simply because it has been modified is a potential issue -- I do not believe that a search of all the forums on the site will find a report of it having happened EVER.

Just be aware of the possibility and do any modifications carefully -- such as by closely following the instructions provided by well respected vendors.

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Old 09-02-2013, 07:21 PM   #881
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While warranty refusal on a modified DVR simply because it has been modified is a potential issue -- I do not believe that a search of all the forums on the site will find a report of it having happened EVER.
While not exactly the same as warranty refusal on a modified TiVo, there was at least one report of an out-of-warranty repair being refused due to the TiVo being modified.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...31#post6949231

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Old 09-02-2013, 07:31 PM   #882
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there was at least one report of an out-of-warranty repair being refused due to the TiVo being modified.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...31#post6949231

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Not sure whether to say "Touché" or "That is the exception which proves the rule."

I would agree with Tivoupgrade that there are a number of alternatives to out of warranty repair -- though they do not have the option of assisting with transfer of PLS in the event of catastrophe or as part of an upgrade incentive.

Me, I like opening boxes. But then I killed WiFi on my MacPro installing a SSD.

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ps: good find
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Old 09-02-2013, 07:40 PM   #883
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ps: good find
I remembered when that one was posted but the hard part was finding it again.

I can't say that I've seen another post though before that or since then.

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Old 09-02-2013, 07:51 PM   #884
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True. Welcome to TCF. I'm sure the longer you are here, the more it will stand out that there's plenty of condescension and insulting going on, from plenty of people, who will never once apologize for it.
Sorry but I haven't notice that.
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Old 09-02-2013, 08:07 PM   #885
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Even so I think they'd have to prove that replacing the drive caused whatever issue requiring warranty service.
That might be true with car warranties, but I don't think it applies to electronics. With electronics a simple static shock to any component in the case could cause failure of the whole system so I think simply proving you opened the case would be enough to deny a warranty repair.

Also just because they have never really cared about upgrades in the past doesn't mean that policy wont change in the future. We're talking about an extended warranty that covers the next 2-3 years. Their policy could easily change in that time. I'm not saying it will, but you're taking a risk if you open the case and expect an extended warranty to be honored.
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Old 09-02-2013, 08:24 PM   #886
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That might be true with car warranties, but I don't think it applies to electronics. With electronics a simple static shock to any component in the case could cause failure of the whole system so I think simply proving you opened the case would be enough to deny a warranty repair.

Also just because they have never really cared about upgrades in the past doesn't mean that policy wont change in the future. We're talking about an extended warranty that covers the next 2-3 years. Their policy could easily change in that time. I'm not saying it will, but you're taking a risk if you open the case and expect an extended warranty to be honored.
Dan, what you aren't taking into account is TiVo's history of being flexible and encouraging tinkering (or more recently turning a blind eye). They have had options to shutdown operations like Weaknees with drive encryption schemes but have never done so. There is some risk of upgrading your drive but myself and most others would say that risk is probably very low.

Obviously for some that very small risk is still too much compared to any monetary savings. Personally I like to tinker and appreciate saving a few bucks.
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Old 09-02-2013, 08:57 PM   #887
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Given Tivo's short (90 day) full-replacement warranty as I've said before I think there's no point in arguing with a CSR when you can instead just buy an extended warranty and wait until day 91 to upgrade the drive.

All the extended warranties (even the one sold by Tivo) are serviced by 3rd parties who would have no idea you swapped drives, as long as you didn't obviously break anything, put the original drive back, & are not foolish enough to admit you DIY upgraded when arranging for service (the linked poster admitted to the CSR they had previously upgraded the drive in their Tivo HD)

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That might be true with car warranties, but I don't think it applies to electronics. With electronics a simple static shock to any component in the case could cause failure of the whole system so I think simply proving you opened the case would be enough to deny a warranty repair.

Also just because they have never really cared about upgrades in the past doesn't mean that policy wont change in the future. We're talking about an extended warranty that covers the next 2-3 years. Their policy could easily change in that time. I'm not saying it will, but you're taking a risk if you open the case and expect an extended warranty to be honored.

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Old 09-02-2013, 09:23 PM   #888
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Bingo.
And it's not like you can't get Torx screw easily and cheaply.
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Old 09-02-2013, 09:58 PM   #889
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And it's not like you can't get Torx screw easily and cheaply.
With the advent of the Internet getting torx screws and tools is cheap & easy.
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Old 09-02-2013, 10:05 PM   #890
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I will be sending you a box.com folder share later today so you can look at a full backup of a 2 TB drive.

Jeff
The 2 TB drive full backup was uploaded for your review.

Jeff
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Old 09-02-2013, 11:09 PM   #891
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Screws and stickers don't matter because they can tell from their logs if you've upgraded your drive. If they decide to enforce the rules they can tell right from their computer screen if you've opened the lid. In the past they've mostly turned a blind eye to upgrading, but that could change at and time. So you're taking a risk by upgrading the drive.
Everyone keeps saying Tivo doesn't care. But when a friend's Tivo HD (which I had upgraded for her) went totally dead a year or so ago and swapping drives didn't fix it, I called and asked if we had any options to pay for a repair (it was well out of warranty). They immediately told me they could see that the drive had been replaced and that I had no options -- I couldn't pay them to fix it specifically because of the drive.

I didn't argue it too much, because it had died during a storm and nearby lightening strike, and she could lump it onto the insurance claim for other issues. But they definitely knew right away that it had been upgraded, and flat out said that putting the old drive in didn't matter, I'd voided all support options, paid or otherwise.
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Old 09-02-2013, 11:27 PM   #892
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All the extended warranties (even the one sold by Tivo) are serviced by 3rd parties who would have no idea you swapped drives
I'm not sure that's the case. Wile the insurance portion of the warranty sold by TiVo may be backed by a 3rd party TiVo still handles the support. And as bkrodgers, and others, can attest they know immediately that you've upgraded the drive.

That being said... Knowing and caring are two different things. In the past they have pretty much ignored self upgrades and lots of people have gotten away with doing exactly what you suggest. However that does not mean their policy wont change. Just to be clear I'm not saying it will change, I'm just saying it could. I don't want anyone coming in here thinking that doing a self upgrade is 100% safe and TiVo will never know, because they absolutely will know immediately.

This is especially true for all you guys that are putting in the new drive before you even turn the thing on. I personally would recommend booting it up with the original drive, running through setup, making sure all the tuners work, the video outputs, the Ethernet port, etc... and maybe even using it for a few days to make sure it's not going to fail before cracking the case and putting in a new drive. Because if you discover something is wrong after you've put in that new drive there is no guarantee TiVo wont tell you tough luck.
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Old 09-02-2013, 11:39 PM   #893
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I'm not sure that's the case. Wile the insurance portion of the warranty sold by TiVo may be backed by a 3rd party TiVo still handles the support. And as bkrodgers, and others, can attest they know immediately that you've upgraded the drive.

That being said... Knowing and caring are two different things. In the past they have pretty much ignored self upgrades and lots of people have gotten away with doing exactly what you suggest. However that does not mean their policy wont change. Just to be clear I'm not saying it will change, I'm just saying it could. I don't want anyone coming in here thinking that doing a self upgrade is 100% safe and TiVo will never know, because they absolutely will know immediately.

This is especially true for all you guys that are putting in the new drive before you even turn the thing on. I personally would recommend booting it up with the original drive, running through setup, making sure all the tuners work, the video outputs, the Ethernet port, etc... and maybe even using it for a few days to make sure it's not going to fail before cracking the case and putting in a new drive. Because if you discover something is wrong after you've put in that new drive there is no guarantee TiVo wont tell you tough luck.
If purchased from Amazon or BB and you make that discovery they will happily replace it as part of their normal return policy. I replaced my Plus drive with a 2TB drive before i ever powered it up. If it had been a lemon putting the original drive back in and returning it would not have been a problem.

As to TiVo, yes, they are in a position to be more sticklers about this and maybe they will be soon. We don't know if the ease of upgradeability was a design choice or oversight on their part but i suspect the former in this case.

Honestly i dont know why TiVo should even care. People replace HDs on their computers all the time. On a 1-5 difficulty scale it rates a 1 and most consumers can co it without causing a problem.
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Old 09-02-2013, 11:55 PM   #894
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Most people cannot replace the hard Drive in their pc. They have no clue what to do.

Now people on this forum are not average but I can't even count the number of people who can't even defrag a hard drive. They have no idea how to replace a hard drive. And if they tried they would almost certainly screw something up.

Even some people I've worked with who are suppose to know it as part of their job description could not replace the hard drive.
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Old 09-02-2013, 11:55 PM   #895
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I suspect the easy upgrade was added for their MSO partners and maybe to reduce manufacturing costs. I don't think retail customers being able to upgrade easily was given much weight one way or the other.

As for why they would care.... The Plus/Pro units have unshielded power supplies which can seriously hurt you if you touch them, so for liability reasons alone it's in their best interest to discourage self upgrades. Plus there is the monetary interest. They charge $200 extra for a Pro vs a Plus with the only difference being the HDD size.

Again I'm not saying they will do this, I'm saying they could and people should take that into consideration when doing a self upgrade.
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Old 09-03-2013, 12:22 AM   #896
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I suspect the easy upgrade was added for their MSO partners and maybe to reduce manufacturing costs. I don't think retail customers being able to upgrade easily was given much weight one way or the other.

As for why they would care.... The Plus/Pro units have unshielded power supplies which can seriously hurt you if you touch them, so for liability reasons alone it's in their best interest to discourage self upgrades. Plus there is the monetary interest. They charge $200 extra for a Pro vs a Plus with the only difference being the HDD size.

Again I'm not saying they will do this, I'm saying they could and people should take that into consideration when doing a self upgrade.
I think in addition to selling boxes to MSO sans drives, they are trying to make the units easier to repair in the field and reduce warranty costs. Unless Margaret is feeling generous we will likely never know.
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Old 09-03-2013, 12:37 AM   #897
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I suspect the easy upgrade was added for their MSO partners and maybe to reduce manufacturing costs. I don't think retail customers being able to upgrade easily was given much weight one way or the other.
I don't see the MSO partners using the Base Roamio at all. Due to no built-in MoCA support, and the fact it is so cheaply made, I don't see it having any real longevity in a market where higher turnover is expected.

RCN stated that their Roamio (or Pace) was going to be dubbed the "T6" so probably the Plus or Pro if a Roamio.
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r28576994-
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Old 09-03-2013, 02:13 AM   #898
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I don't see the MSO partners using the Base Roamio at all. Due to no built-in MoCA support, and the fact it is so cheaply made, I don't see it having any real longevity in a market where higher turnover is expected.
It doesn't need MoCa if it's marketed as a standalone DVR with no multi-room expansion. (i.e. the low end option) And it's no more cheaply made then the cable modem I rented from my cable company for many years. In fact by making the hard drive easy to replace and the power supply external it's probably very easy to maintain in a high turnover market and cheap enough to replace if the customer never returns it. If they're $199 retail they're probably 1/2 that, or less, wholesale without a drive. For something that rents at $20/mo it wouldn't take long to become completely replaceable.
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Old 09-03-2013, 02:47 AM   #899
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I suspect the easy upgrade was added for their MSO partners and maybe to reduce manufacturing costs. I don't think retail customers being able to upgrade easily was given much weight one way or the other.

As for why they would care.... The Plus/Pro units have unshielded power supplies which can seriously hurt you if you touch them, so for liability reasons alone it's in their best interest to discourage self upgrades. Plus there is the monetary interest. They charge $200 extra for a Pro vs a Plus with the only difference being the HDD size.

Again I'm not saying they will do this, I'm saying they could and people should take that into consideration when doing a self upgrade.
That's also why those considering or purchasing warranties direct from Tivo should probably look elsewhere if they plan or even think they may do a self upgrade in the future. For those DIY'ers that want a warranty, an extended warranty from a third party would be preferable. It's possible the CSR that handles the support case won't check the logs for an upgrade but it's definitely a gamble.
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Old 09-03-2013, 06:17 AM   #900
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Here is my thing. If they can see that it was added and when, and there is a HDD failure, sure refuse to warranty that. If you add the HDD and the Tivo quits working near that point, sure dont warranty (you damaged something installing the drive, maybe). If I install a new drive, and it runs for 9 months before somethign inside gives out, gimme a break. Id never expect em to warranty the drive of course.
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