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Old 09-01-2013, 08:21 PM   #1
moyekj
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Mini and Roamio DTA observations

Haven't seen posts yet related to Dynamic Tuner Allocation (DTA) when using Roamio as a Mini host. From my recent experiment here's one interesting find:

* I setup my Roamio Plus unit as my Mini host, and set it to record 5 shows concurrently with the last tuner as live TV foreground tuner.
* Then I tried live TV on Mini and found it could not grab a tuner which was a little unexpected.

So it looks like the Roamio reserves 1 tuner for live TV on the Roamio itself which the Mini doesn't automatically steal. Makes sense after you think about it a little.

* On Roamio I then set 1 of 5 ongoing recordings as the foreground tuner.
* Trying live TV on the Mini then worked - reasoning being that since live TV was no longer in foreground that there is no reason for TiVo to deny that tuner for the Mini anymore.

So, under normal conditions where you don't have access to the host unit to change foreground tuner, the Mini will need 2 free tuners on the host in order for live TV to work. I don't think that's immediately obvious to unseasoned Mini users.

Of course there are plenty of other experiments to try which I haven't bothered with, but figured we can probably collectively try all scenarios and perhaps after posting about the various scenarios, put together a FAQ on DTA.
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Last edited by moyekj : 09-01-2013 at 08:27 PM.
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Old 09-02-2013, 05:25 AM   #2
Bryan Lyle
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Thanks for testing this.

What happens when you are watching the mini with 5 recordings going on the roamio and a 6th recording is schedule to start? Does the recording get skipped or does the mini user get kicked off?
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Old 09-02-2013, 08:15 AM   #3
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I'd also like to know if the Mini is able to acquire a tuner if the Roamio is busy recording Suggestions. For example, say you have 4 tuners recording programs you requested, and the other 2 are recording suggestions. Will the Roamio automatically cancel one of the recording suggestions and assign that tuner to the Mini?
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Old 09-02-2013, 09:35 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan Lyle View Post
Thanks for testing this.

What happens when you are watching the mini with 5 recordings going on the roamio and a 6th recording is schedule to start? Does the recording get skipped or does the mini user get kicked off?
A prompt comes up on the Mini with a description of which show wants to be recorded and giving Mini user option to cancel the upcoming recording or give up the tuner. With no response default is to use the tuner for the recording and take away from the Mini (Mini goes to TiVo Central).
If Mini user chooses to keep watching live TV I don't recall seeing any evidence on the host unit that a recording was cancelled and why.

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I'd also like to know if the Mini is able to acquire a tuner if the Roamio is busy recording Suggestions. For example, say you have 4 tuners recording programs you requested, and the other 2 are recording suggestions. Will the Roamio automatically cancel one of the recording suggestions and assign that tuner to the Mini?
Sorry, I don't use/like suggestions (1st thing I turn off on a new TiVo) so someone else that does will need to experiment with that.
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Old 09-02-2013, 12:22 PM   #5
Bryan Lyle
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Thanks for testing this. This is exactly how I hoped it would work!
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Old 09-02-2013, 12:43 PM   #6
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We need someone with multiple Minis to try this and see if all Mini users get the prompt or only 1. And if only 1 gets it and they say "no" does the next Mini user get asked in sequence?
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Old 09-03-2013, 03:11 PM   #7
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Can someone jog my memory on where the tuner allocation setup is in the Roamio settings? I didn't even have to set it up this time, it was already working with the Minis when I got them going.
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Old 09-03-2013, 03:28 PM   #8
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Can someone jog my memory on where the tuner allocation setup is in the Roamio settings? I didn't even have to set it up this time, it was already working with the Minis when I got them going.
There are no setting for this on the roamio. The tuner allocation is all 'dynamic' based on availability at the time.
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Old 09-03-2013, 03:39 PM   #9
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There are no setting for this on the roamio. The tuner allocation is all 'dynamic' based on availability at the time.
That's what I thought too. I must have misunderstood as a previous post made it seem as though some preferences were available
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Old 09-03-2013, 03:56 PM   #10
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There are on the Premiere still, but that's because it still has static tuner allocation. I assume once they release the update with dynamic tuner allocation for the Premiere that option will go away there too.
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Old 09-03-2013, 04:36 PM   #11
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A few days ago I kept wondering why I couldn't get a tuner on my Mini when I was recording five things on my Roamio Pro. I kept thinking that it hadn't timed out yet when I stopped the recording. At the time it never even occurred to me that a tuner needed to stay free for the Romaio to use.
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Old 09-03-2013, 05:16 PM   #12
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Apparently that's only the case when the tuner is in the foreground of the Roamio. If you set the foreground tuner to one of the recordings then you're allowed to use it for the Mini.
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Old 09-12-2013, 08:04 AM   #13
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Suggestions and the Tivo Mini

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan Lyle View Post
Thanks for testing this.

What happens when you are watching the mini with 5 recordings going on the roamio and a 6th recording is schedule to start? Does the recording get skipped or does the mini user get kicked off?
If you are recording suggestions on all tuners the Mini will tell you that there are no tuners available. I had to turn off suggestions because of this (I have two minis so I need mor tuners NOT recording suggestions). I hope they fix it in an upcoming update.
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Old 09-24-2013, 02:51 PM   #14
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If you are recording suggestions on all tuners the Mini will tell you that there are no tuners available. I had to turn off suggestions because of this (I have two minis so I need mor tuners NOT recording suggestions). I hope they fix it in an upcoming update.
I AGREE! Just had this happen to me last night while using a Mini. No tuners available, but I was only recording one show on my Roamio Basic, and Roamio was recording suggestions and stealing the tuners and not allowing the Mini to take a tuner. For someone with 4 Minis in his house ... this will not work. I too will be turning off suggested recordings on my Roamio until this is fixed.
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Old 09-24-2013, 02:54 PM   #15
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It never will get fixed till enough of you guys contact TiVo, open a ticket and escalate the issue.

I doubt they even have this on their roadmap right now.
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Old 09-26-2013, 08:24 PM   #16
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You can also go to the now playing list and go down to suggestions and cancel one of the recordings to free up a tuner. I have done this from a mini. Not the most elegant solution but it's better than going to the other room to do it.
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Old 09-27-2013, 10:02 AM   #17
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So really, DTA should be SDTA. "Somewhat" dynamic tuner allocation. It also means that if/when released for the premiere, it will in many cases be useless. If you have a 4 tuner Premiere, and there are 2 recordings going on, 1 reserved for Premiere live, and 1 being used for "suggestions", then no tuner available for the mini. If I'm reading this right, it means that anyone that wants to use the "possible" DTA on Premiere would really need to turn off suggestions? And never ever have 3 recordings going on with an XL4?
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Old 09-27-2013, 11:09 AM   #18
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So really, DTA should be SDTA. "Somewhat" dynamic tuner allocation. It also means that if/when released for the premiere, it will in many cases be useless. If you have a 4 tuner Premiere, and there are 2 recordings going on, 1 reserved for Premiere live, and 1 being used for "suggestions", then no tuner available for the mini. If I'm reading this right, it means that anyone that wants to use the "possible" DTA on Premiere would really need to turn off suggestions? And never ever have 3 recordings going on with an XL4?
I don't know about suggestions, but the Roamio + will reserve one tuner for itself and let 5 tuners go to Minis or recordings on the Roamio + (you can do 6 recordings also but having 5 recordings going on at the same time will not let any Mini work for live TV unless you stop a recording, you can still watch any recorded show on the Mini)
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Old 09-27-2013, 12:48 PM   #19
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So what I meant was that since one tuner is always reserved for roamio, it leaves 5 tuners. Then, it sounds as though (looking at threads above) if tuners are currently being used to record "suggestions", then any combination - including "suggestion recordings" of the remaining 5 would prevent mini from using a tuner.

In other words, whether it's being used or not, Roamio retains a tuner. And, whether it's for a "scheduled" or a "suggestions" recording (which we do not control) the mini can only use what's left over, or you need to manually go to Roamio to make changes to free up a tuner for the mini.

So, not really full "dynamic" tuner allocation. "Suggestions" should ALWAYS take the very lowest priority of anything - period.
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Old 09-27-2013, 12:50 PM   #20
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I don't know about suggestions, but the Roamio + will reserve one tuner for itself and let 5 tuners go to Minis or recordings on the Roamio + (you can do 6 recordings also but having 5 recordings going on at the same time will not let any Mini work for live TV unless you stop a recording, you can still watch any recorded show on the Mini)
I "think" that you can actually use that 6th tuner for live TV on a mini if you make sure one of the recording tuners is in the foreground on the Roamio itself.
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Old 09-27-2013, 01:13 PM   #21
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I "think" that you can actually use that 6th tuner for live TV on a mini if you make sure one of the recording tuners is in the foreground on the Roamio itself.
Which again, means "partially" dynamic. If you need to go to the Roamio to put something in the foreground in order to then go to the mini to use a tuner, it's hardly "dynamic". It's somewhat dynamic.

To be honest, it makes me now wonder if I even want this to come to the Premiere. It could actually make my situation worse. At least now I have predictability in that I know how many tuners are available on each location, and I know that "scheduled" recordings or live viewing will always take priority over "suggestions" - without having to go from room to room. The way Tivo seems to have implemented DTA, I'll need to either disable "suggestions" altogether or do the manual thing - which frankly could be a real problem. Keep in mind that perhaps I'm in bed watching something on a premiere and my son or somebody else wants to watch live on the mini, but then they need to come bother me to free up a tuner?

I honestly didn't really think Tivo would make things worse, but this sure seems worse to me. Maybe I'm not understanding it correctly. However, I have to say, the current track record is that Tivo implements some very questionable (to say the least) use cases.
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Old 09-27-2013, 02:07 PM   #22
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I "think" that you can actually use that 6th tuner for live TV on a mini if you make sure one of the recording tuners is in the foreground on the Roamio itself.
I set up a 5 Mini and Roamio + system, with no recording being done on the Roamio + I could tune the 5 Minis to 5 different stations, with 5 recordings taking place on the Roamio no Mini could get to live TV. Just saying.
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Old 09-27-2013, 04:52 PM   #23
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I set up a 5 Mini and Roamio + system, with no recording being done on the Roamio + I could tune the 5 Minis to 5 different stations, with 5 recordings taking place on the Roamio no Mini could get to live TV. Just saying.
I thought I had read that somewhere. I've never actually tried it so I could very well be wrong. But it does make sense that the TiVo would want to keep at least 1 live tuner for itself.
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Old 09-27-2013, 04:54 PM   #24
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Which again, means "partially" dynamic. If you need to go to the Roamio to put something in the foreground in order to then go to the mini to use a tuner, it's hardly "dynamic". It's somewhat dynamic.

To be honest, it makes me now wonder if I even want this to come to the Premiere. It could actually make my situation worse. At least now I have predictability in that I know how many tuners are available on each location, and I know that "scheduled" recordings or live viewing will always take priority over "suggestions" - without having to go from room to room. The way Tivo seems to have implemented DTA, I'll need to either disable "suggestions" altogether or do the manual thing - which frankly could be a real problem. Keep in mind that perhaps I'm in bed watching something on a premiere and my son or somebody else wants to watch live on the mini, but then they need to come bother me to free up a tuner?

I honestly didn't really think Tivo would make things worse, but this sure seems worse to me. Maybe I'm not understanding it correctly. However, I have to say, the current track record is that Tivo implements some very questionable (to say the least) use cases.
The suggestion thing seems like a bug, so hopefully they are working on a fix for that. Other then that it works pretty much as you'd expect.
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Old 09-27-2013, 05:53 PM   #25
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I set up a 5 Mini and Roamio + system, with no recording being done on the Roamio + I could tune the 5 Minis to 5 different stations, with 5 recordings taking place on the Roamio no Mini could get to live TV. Just saying.
Read the start of this thread. That's expected behavior under normal conditions. With 5 recordings on Roamio if you bring one of the ongoing recordings to the foreground tuner then that frees up the last tuner for the Mini. But that means you have to go over to the host Roamio to do that which is not "dynamic". So under normal conditions you need 2 free tuners on the host to get live TV on the Mini.
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Old 09-27-2013, 05:59 PM   #26
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Read the start of this thread. That's expected behavior under normal conditions. With 5 recordings on Roamio if you bring one of the ongoing recordings to the foreground tuner then that frees up the last tuner for the Mini. But that means you have to go over to the host Roamio to do that which is not "dynamic". So under normal conditions you need 2 free tuners on the host to get live TV on the Mini.
Which means, if released in the same fashion on the Premiere, it effectively further cripples an XL4. I wonder if you can effectively "opt out" of DTA? Honestly, at this point it would be a disadvantage on an XL4.
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Old 09-27-2013, 06:19 PM   #27
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Which means, if released in the same fashion on the Premiere, it effectively further cripples an XL4. I wonder if you can effectively "opt out" of DTA? Honestly, at this point it would be a disadvantage on an XL4.
Depends on your perspective. To me the most important thing is that there are sufficient tuners on the host unit to record everything I want. To that end when my Elite was host I set it to allocate 0 tuners for the Mini so I could never get live TV on it. With DTA implementation at least there are times when you can get live TV on Mini without sacrificing a tuner 100% of the time.

If live TV on the Mini is so important to you then perhaps you should consider getting a 6 tuner Roamio to use as host instead, or use a cheap 2 tuner Premiere in place of a Mini.
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