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Old 09-01-2013, 01:27 PM   #31
Dan203
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Originally Posted by pbubel View Post
But still cutting the power from a device designed to operate 24x7 clearly puts a little extra strain on it.
That's an argument as old as the HDD itself. Some people argue that leaving it spinning 24/7 shortens the life while others say that the strain of constantly spinning up from a stop shortens the life. Studies have been done that favor both positions, but usually the margin of error is about the same as the difference.

That being said, I agree that it doesn't seem worth the risk for such a minor power savings.
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Old 09-01-2013, 01:41 PM   #32
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I run mine all the time and they are connected to to a ups like all my electronics. But I can see why someone might shut it off for half the day. The savings add up from multiple devices. A dollar here and a dollar there add up in the savings on the electric bill each month.
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Old 09-01-2013, 01:52 PM   #33
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I'm just not that frugal.
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Old 09-01-2013, 02:16 PM   #34
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That's an argument as old as the HDD itself. Some people argue that leaving it spinning 24/7 shortens the life while others say that the strain of constantly spinning up from a stop shortens the life. Studies have been done that favor both positions, but usually the margin of error is about the same as the difference.

That being said, I agree that it doesn't seem worth the risk for such a minor power savings.
Yes sir it is. One day TiVo's will use SSD's and that won't matter anymore. I'd also worry about the power supply from the daily shutoffs.
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Old 09-01-2013, 04:15 PM   #35
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So I'm wondering if the power savings (Roughly $10/$15) a year, is outweighed by the potential damage to the TiVo. All of those hard power cuts aren't great for the drive. Ever had any problems? How long have you been doing that for? Just wondering out loud...
Been doing for the last 3 years, without any problems, nothing every corrupted that I saw, the TiVo may fix the files itself as people have the power cut to TiVos all the time in normal use, power loss, a hard re-boot, moving the TiVo, etc. I do give it 2.5 hours after 2AM to make sure any software update is atomically put in the TiVo. The last thing TiVo would want is many people having problems after any power interruptions as most TiVo users, not on this forum, do not use a UPS on the TiVo.
As for the electronics, I turn off my TV, my DVD player, my sound amp. system, and my Computer (to sleep mode), not any problem with modern electronics.
People have their own hang up on this subject, so do what you feel good about. Long term heat can harm electronics as starting up electronics may, never saw any study on the subject.
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Old 09-01-2013, 04:19 PM   #36
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Been doing for the last 3 years, without any problems, nothing every corrupted that I saw, the TiVo may fix the files itself as people have the power cut to TiVos all the time in normal use, power loss, a hard re-boot, moving the TiVo, etc. I do give it 2.5 hours after 2AM to make sure any software update is atomically put in the TiVo. The last thing TiVo would want is many people having problems after any power interruptions as most TiVo users, not on this forum, do not use a UPS on the TiVo.
As for the electronics, I turn off my TV, my DVD player, my sound amp. system, and my Computer (to sleep mode), not any problem with modern electronics.
People have their own hang up on this subject, so do what you feel good about. Long term heat can harm electronics as starting up electronics may, never saw any study on the subject.
Glad you haven't had any problems. You aren't really turning off those other items just putting them in standby mode, unless your actually unplugging them all. Seems like a lot of efforts with little gain to power cycle the TiVo daily, but hey if it doesn't hurt anything and saves you a couple bucks a year sounds good to me.

One day I'd love a house with power meters on every outlet I could review from a web console. One day..
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Old 10-13-2014, 12:34 PM   #37
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One day TiVo's will use SSD's and that won't matter anymore.
From what I've read about SSDs, they don't seem like a great fit for a device like a DVR. Current SSDs have a limited lifetime due to degradation after many write/erase cycles. That lifetime may be several years, but it will likely always be shorter than magnetic disks. SSDs excel in apps where you are mostly reading. A DVR, OTOH, is always writing the current tuner(s) to a disk buffer, plus any scheduled recordings. Writes will be dominant, wearing out the device more quickly than normal PC usage.
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Old 10-13-2014, 02:41 PM   #38
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From what I've read about SSDs, they don't seem like a great fit for a device like a DVR. Current SSDs have a limited lifetime due to degradation after many write/erase cycles. That lifetime may be several years, but it will likely always be shorter than magnetic disks. SSDs excel in apps where you are mostly reading. A DVR, OTOH, is always writing the current tuner(s) to a disk buffer, plus any scheduled recordings. Writes will be dominant, wearing out the device more quickly than normal PC usage.
True today, but in 20 years (or less) may not be a problem for TiVo use.
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Old 10-18-2014, 01:40 AM   #39
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True today, but in 20 years (or less) may not be a problem for TiVo use.
Scary thought..in 20 years I will be 85! Hope I still understand and can see and hear what I am watching!

Seriously though, appreciate the knowledge that is shared and available on the forum. Being a brand new TiVo user it is much needed.

Thanks,

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Old 10-18-2014, 08:40 AM   #40
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True today, but in 20 years (or less) may not be a problem for TiVo use.
You are right, an SSD is a poor choice for a DVR. Besides, the main advantage of the SSD is speed, which is not really necessary in a DVR.
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Old Yesterday, 09:33 AM   #41
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It'd be nice if they threw in a small amount of flash storage that the OS could run on, but I'm not sure if that would really speed up the UI, as it doesn't resolve the slower processor issue or the fact that Tivo constantly goes out to the internet for certain parts of the UI.

Certainly would improve boot times, but seeing as how the Tivo only needs to boot after a power loss or update, may be a lot to pay for a minimal gain.
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Old Yesterday, 10:14 AM   #42
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That's an argument as old as the HDD itself.

Nah, I don't think it came up at all until the 5" drives.

The 14" drives (and the earlier ones) were connected to computers that you wouldn't consider powering down just for overnight. I was working in an IBM computer room when power went off (someone backed into the EPO button). Only half the mainframes came back up, and we spent the rest of the night restarting the rest.


They had enough rotational inertia that the motors were used as generators if power was lost, to provide the juice to write out pending data and whathaveyou.

Clever engineers would actually race them; well-timed accesses could swing the unit enough . . . (leading to the age old management problem of, "do I fire this maniac for this reckless behavior, or give him a raise?").

By the early 90s, apple's guideline was not to turn off a machine for less than eight hours.

BTW, the very first sports replay were on Monday Night Football. They did it by using a computer hard disk and recording in analog instead of digital--a TiVo the size of a washing machine with only a few minutes of storage . . .

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Old Yesterday, 09:51 PM   #43
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Nah, I don't think it came up at all until the 5" drives.hawk
Are you kidding? People used to have the same argument about incandescent light bulbs when I was a boy, and for the same reason; they'd observe that they would often burn out when they were cycled just like people observe that PCs often die when restarted. When I took my first computer class in 1968, there were conflicting opinions as to whether the IBM 1130 should be powered down at night or not.

I've had the same experience as you with mainframes failing to restart after a power failure. Our IBM CE explained that the EPO relays would stick if they weren't used for a long time, and he had to manipulate about half of them by hand after we turned the power off for an electrical update or we had a power failure. I think they use a different technology in the switches nowadays, in later years this problem didn't seem to happen.
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